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No one is saying the fact there aren't that many people in prison for simple marijuana possession to begin with, and in CO it's now basically impossible to be arrested for marijuana possession. There's a limit to one ounce while driving, but since the law specifically also made sure people could posses all the marijuana they have grown, it would appear there's no limits. Sure, dealing is still illegal, but dealers make up a fraction of the weed community, but the black market will be gone pretty drat soon once the legal grow community organizes more and people start growing their own plants. Unless your dealer is also a good friend, no one wants to buy weed from a drug dealer. They're not on time, they want you to smoke with them, they're often depressing in general, ect.
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# ? Jan 6, 2014 21:52 |
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# ? Jun 6, 2024 05:18 |
Marijuana has been effectively decriminalized throughout much of Colorado for at least the past year, in some places (like Boulder) since like 2005, so you could take a look at changes in state prison populations data here if you wanted. Seems like the most recent numbers are pretty flat: Colorado Division of Criminal Justice posted:The 2012 prison population projections But the state predicts inmate populations to decline over the next few years despite the state growing at a good clip, and legalization most certainly factors into these predictions: quote:Colorado correctional populations, both adult and juvenile, are expected to continue to decrease in the
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# ? Jan 6, 2014 21:54 |
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computer parts posted:Or private prisons could just raise their rates per prisoner. It's not optimal but I would be fine with paying the same for fewer prisoners.
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# ? Jan 6, 2014 21:55 |
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WampaLord posted:Hahahaha, yea no. quote:I'm starting to sense that you don't know much about weed or the people who smoke it. Have you read the reports? Many retail stores are OUT, there isn't anything left. So if my options are ZERO WEED, or some decriminalized weed that is conveniently delivered to my door, the choice for me is obvious. The legal supply cannot meet demand, and it's not going to suddenly "ramp-up," especially since the legal licensing and grow ops won't catch up for the next few years, by legislative design. Also don't apply your non-experience with dealers to people who have no choice but to get their weed from dealers. I have a literal online catalog that includes strains from Oregon, Colorado, Amsterdam, and various independent growers that I can have delivered to my door within hours at prices that are cheaper than retail Colorado prices. The black market still exists, and will continue to exist until the barrier to entry for legalization is lower. But yea, what I was actually getting at is that there are so few people in jail for possession, that decreasing that already small number isn't really that big of a deal, on the whole. It's obviously a good thing though. ate shit on live tv fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Jan 6, 2014 |
# ? Jan 6, 2014 21:57 |
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Dusseldorf posted:It's not optimal but I would be fine with paying the same for fewer prisoners. So they steal your liberty, then sell it back to you?
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# ? Jan 6, 2014 21:58 |
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quote:“The curve of epidemic imprisonment in America has now begun to inflect and a growing number of states are now intentionally shrinking their prison populations in favor of alternatives to incarceration, especially for juveniles and drug offenders. 21 Big changes in prison populations where states are committed to reforming the drug laws. This article is good because it also describes expanding criminalisation and new forms of punishment (for immigration, debt etc). KingEup fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Jan 6, 2014 |
# ? Jan 6, 2014 22:02 |
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Powercrazy posted:
I was under the impression that about 50% of the prison population was in there for non-violent drug possessions. I understand that actually not nearly that much is in there for pot, but surely it'd make at least a dent, wouldn't it?
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# ? Jan 6, 2014 22:02 |
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Powercrazy posted:I have a literal online catalog that includes strains from Oregon, Colorado, Amsterdam, and various independent growers that I can have delivered to my door within hours at prices that are cheaper than retail Colorado prices. I find this extremely hard to believe, or I guess drug dealers really have adapted well to modern technology. Regardless, I doubt most people know how to access said catalog. Check your weed buying privilege. Sorry about the "you don't know poo poo about weed" comment, but I still think the black market in CO will die out as retail operations expand. Also, people can start growing their own, so the supply is definitely going to go up one way or another. WampaLord fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Jan 6, 2014 |
# ? Jan 6, 2014 22:03 |
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BottledBodhisvata posted:I was under the impression that about 50% of the prison population was in there for non-violent drug possessions. I understand that actually not nearly that much is in there for pot, but surely it'd make at least a dent, wouldn't it? I don't know about states, but that's true for federal prisons, but, it's all non violent drug crimes, not just possession.
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# ? Jan 6, 2014 22:06 |
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WampaLord posted:I find this extremely had to believe, or I guess drug dealers really have adapted well to modern technology. NYC is magical place in more than a few ways. Yes, in the long term, the black market for weed will die out, that is inevitable, gray market friendly weed swaps etc, might take its place, but again that is in the long term. Short-term, like the next few years, demand is going to be higher than supply, we are already seeing that right now. The barrier for legal weed isn't trivial to overcome, and start up costs are large because of the seed-to-plant tracking. That's why I'm skeptical by the magnitude of prison population decreasing because of weed legalization. To be clear: I'm saying that while the prison population will shrink, it will be general decrease in drug enforcement, not specifically retail weed, that will enable it.
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# ? Jan 6, 2014 22:08 |
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WampaLord posted:Sorry about the "you don't know poo poo about weed" comment, but I still think the black market in CO will die out as retail operations expand. Also, people can start growing their own, so the supply is definitely going to go up one way or another. Just based off of my buddies in the area who have dealt on and off and moved to Colorado, there isn't a lot of money in selling weed. A lot of people have switched to making and selling oil and concentrates, which has seen a surge in demand for better quality stuff, but still has a shakier supply than flower. To an extent, the supply will level out. A bunch of licensed grow operations weren't allowed to plant until January 1st, so once we start seeing their rotation of crops coming to market that should alleviate some of the demand. Additionally, at some point a lot of the native Coloradans who want to keep buying weed but didn't have one yet will get a medical card, since there are a ton of dispensaries that won't go through the licensing process to sell to the public, and because they aren't experiencing the ridiculous lines. Its the out of staters who may feel supply crunches, but if you haven't made a friend in Colorado who can track down a roomie or neighbor with a card... you really ought to. Lovely people, those Coloradans.
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# ? Jan 6, 2014 22:14 |
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computer parts posted:Or private prisons could just raise their rates per prisoner. This is mistaking a symptom for the disease. The drug war has two purposes: 1. Getting federal money into local law enforcement agencies in order to militarize them (in the 1960s many local PDs didn't even have radios in their vehicles), in order to more effectively clamp down on social unrest. 2. Imprison large numbers of lower-class and minority Americans in order to head off the social unrest that rocked the 60s (itself largely the result of increasingly broad solidarity between exploited and oppressed groups and classes). While the War On Terror can take the place of the War On Drugs for (1), (2) will require some alternative measure to be adopted.
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# ? Jan 6, 2014 22:14 |
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WampaLord posted:The demand was just overwhelming in the first few days (as to be expected.) Weed is crazy easy to grow, they will just start growing more and supply will quickly meet the increased demand. The black market for weed in CO will wither away and die very soon. Yeah, it's going to be a lot more like alcohol in terms of the black market. I could easily today find someone willing to sell me homebrewed beer that tastes as good as a decent retail beer for 75% to 90% of the retail cost. I could by this weekend find someone willing to sell me some moonshine that tastes as good as mid-range vodka for 75% to 90% of the retail cost. Neither of these are worth it in a normal scenario, and no one is going to get really rich off of undercutting the legal supply. They also don't even make even that minimal profit margin when it comes to the cheaper or lower quality stuff. It will take some time for the stuff planted on the 1st to be the stuff being sold in the retail shops though.
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# ? Jan 6, 2014 22:18 |
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:This is mistaking a symptom for the disease. The drug war has two purposes: 1. Getting federal money into local law enforcement agencies in order to militarize them (in the 1960s many local PDs didn't even have radios in their vehicles), in order to more effectively clamp down on social unrest. 2. Imprison large numbers of lower-class and minority Americans in order to head off the social unrest that rocked the 60s (itself largely the result of increasingly broad solidarity between exploited and oppressed groups and classes). While the War On Terror can take the place of the War On Drugs for (1), (2) will require some alternative measure to be adopted. (2) already happened, most of the architects behind the Civil Rights Movement are dead and those that aren't are elderly and infirm.
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# ? Jan 6, 2014 22:18 |
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:This is mistaking a symptom for the disease. The drug war has two purposes: 1. Getting federal money into local law enforcement agencies in order to militarize them (in the 1960s many local PDs didn't even have radios in their vehicles), in order to more effectively clamp down on social unrest. 2. Imprison large numbers of lower-class and minority Americans in order to head off the social unrest that rocked the 60s (itself largely the result of increasingly broad solidarity between exploited and oppressed groups and classes). While the War On Terror can take the place of the War On Drugs for (1), (2) will require some alternative measure to be adopted. Did you read a book about the history of the War on Drugs (that you could recommend) or something?
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# ? Jan 6, 2014 22:40 |
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My recommendation: The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness
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# ? Jan 7, 2014 00:02 |
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:I'm also skeptical that legalizing marijuana will actually affect the prison population over the long term, because our justice system is a sham and it's economically and politically necessary to imprison more people than the height of the GULAG period to keep things running smoothly. It probably won't, but prison admittance rates have been trending down for a few years now. I don't see that trend reversing. It's dropped off even more for drug offenses.
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# ? Jan 7, 2014 00:09 |
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WampaLord posted:I find this extremely hard to believe, or I guess drug dealers really have adapted well to modern technology. Regardless, I doubt most people know how to access said catalog. Check your weed buying privilege. http://www.winterlifecoop.com/daily-menu.html I guess it's plausible that not everyone has heard of them, but it's not like you have to install Tor or anything to get to it, and local news have published stories on them. (I have also literally seen dudes on bicycles waving hats with marijuana leaves shouting "I've got weed")
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# ? Jan 7, 2014 00:12 |
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BottledBodhisvata posted:This shouldn't be allowed. Well in more than 20 states employers can say "Hey, you're gay, and I hate gay people. so you're fired for being gay," so it's not like at-will employment is a great thing. In fact I'm pretty sure at one point there were more states that protected smokers.
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# ? Jan 7, 2014 00:12 |
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twodot posted:Here's the primary Seattle marijuana delivery service: That's in Seattle, where WA has medically legal weed for the time being and is opening retail stores soon. I was talking about in states where it's still fully illegal. E: VVV You're almost there, now imagine how the police would act in a state where marijuana wasn't legal. And no, he was talking about NY. I find it very hard believe that these delivery services are as prevalent as Powercrazy is implying, he just has a sweet setup going on. WampaLord fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Jan 7, 2014 |
# ? Jan 7, 2014 00:15 |
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WampaLord posted:That's in Seattle, where WA has medically legal weed for the time being and is opening retail stores soon. I was talking about in states where it's still fully illegal. edit: Oh wait, I think they are now claiming that literally every resident of Washington qualifies for medical marijuana. In any case, the point is that they are operating illegaly no matter what excuse they give. twodot fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Jan 7, 2014 |
# ? Jan 7, 2014 00:20 |
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WampaLord posted:That's in Seattle, where WA has medically legal weed for the time being and is opening retail stores soon. I was talking about in states where it's still fully illegal. Prevalent or not, they exist in both WA and NYC. Multiple strains, Home Delivery, (also more than just weed), and fairly reliable, especially once they get to know you, and a far cry from what you described. CO had similar services as well and not all of them could go legit when retail became legal because they sourced a lot of their weed from out of state and unlicensed grow ops. With the supply crunch of legal weed, these guys aren't going anywhere anytime soon. e: Plus in the city it has been decriminalized if you are white for at least 10 years, probably more, and has officially been classified as lowest priority of law enforcement for the past 4-5 years. With stop and frisk ending soon under Comrade de Blasio (PBUH), the weed delivery services biggest threat is being mugged before dropping off the cash. ate shit on live tv fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Jan 7, 2014 |
# ? Jan 7, 2014 00:33 |
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Problem solved I guess. When do we start paying reparations to all the people who served time during the drug war?
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# ? Jan 7, 2014 12:23 |
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It looks like High Times Magazine is opening a legal marijuana focused private equity fund.quote:High Times, the magazine that has been catering to cannabis enthusiasts for four decades, wants investors to light up a new venture. http://www.cnbc.com/id/101297399
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# ? Jan 7, 2014 18:52 |
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KernelSlanders posted:It looks like High Times Magazine is opening a legal marijuana focused private equity fund. This is brilliant. If banks can make money off of it, marijuana will be fully legalized within 5 years.
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# ? Jan 7, 2014 19:09 |
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WampaLord posted:This is brilliant. If banks can make money off of it, marijuana will be fully legalized within 5 years. For once in my life I am rooting for the banks.
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# ? Jan 7, 2014 20:47 |
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BottledBodhisvata posted:For once in my life I am rooting for the banks. Don't. Eye them with suspicion. Their other hands are hidden from you.
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# ? Jan 7, 2014 22:17 |
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twodot posted:I thought he was talking about Colorado, but regardless I should note that the business I posted is operating illegally. They do business with people who don't have medical marijuana cards, and no retail licenses have been given out yet. They claim they're legal, because they claim to be charging for the delivery process, and not the marijuana, but this is obviously wrong. The reality is the police (and the DEA) just don't care enough to prosecute them. Legal delivery is still pretty common, especially here in Seattle. Nurse Nancy is professional and delivers within a half hour until 1am. http://www.nursenancydelivery.com Retail delivery is still illegal statewide as far as I know.
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# ? Jan 8, 2014 06:10 |
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Powercrazy posted:
also this is totally anecdotal, but I've heard that a number of current/former weed dealers in the Denver area are transitioning to make "ecstasy" and LSD/psilocybin their new draws. stuff that is sold as ecstasy is huuuuuuge here. it's the only drug and place where people have come up to me at nightclubs and ask if i'm holding. although that might just be because I look older than I did 10 years ago.
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# ? Jan 8, 2014 06:19 |
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TenementFunster posted:give it a few months. as i've said earlier in this thread, current medical shops had the one time option to transfer some existing medical supply to retail supply. given that relatively few locations actually opted to become retail establishments on Jan 1 and the first retail seeds/clones were planted 6 days ago, it is going to take awhile before supply and demand are in sync based on the nature of the plant itself. it won't suddenly "ramp up," but give it a few months to normalize after more retail shops and retails grows become available. it's brave, new and slightly chiller world out here. anyone expecting perfect on day 1 was a fool. so far things are going pretty well in my estimation, considering there haven't been any raids or violence. So, legal weed and more LSD on the streets? Denver's becoming my kind of town.
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# ? Jan 8, 2014 06:58 |
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So did anyone happen to catch the lovely and well informed Nancy Grace on HLN going pants-shittingly insane over cannabis? Hilarious! She used a lot of straw man tactics, equated consumers of cannabis to people who cut the heads off of children and then cook them, and verbally defecated upon the NORML representative. A very similar situation happened on the O'Reilly Factor. Someone with superior video editing techniques could create pro-cannabis propaganda for years from the sheer amount of gently caress stupid idiocy I have heard from pundits about this issue for the past few days. The fact such ridiculous garbage is coming from the cake-holes of these folks should cause the died in the wool believers of "Reefer Madness" to take a few steps back. It just seems to me ole Nancy and Bill just saw the reasonable individuals on their programs as that gnarly dude who began rambunctiously playing the piano before gunning down some young flapper in a black and white flick.
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# ? Jan 8, 2014 10:02 |
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Support for marijuana is so ubiquitous now that I can only see O'reilly's freakout hurting him, not the cause of cannabis.
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# ? Jan 8, 2014 10:20 |
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Warchicken posted:Support for marijuana is so ubiquitous now that I can only see O'reilly's freakout hurting him, not the cause of cannabis. Yes sir, indeed. Those two definitely did not represent the side of reason and logic, any discerning individual could see that clear. They were acting like spoiled children being told their trust funds were being given away.
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# ? Jan 8, 2014 10:34 |
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Oh man, the Nancy Grace thing was hilarious. "You mean a private space, like your home? Where you're supposed to taking care of your children, or cooking at a gas stove, or lighting a fireplace? You mean that place? Yeah, no!"
Lycus fucked around with this message at 10:43 on Jan 8, 2014 |
# ? Jan 8, 2014 10:36 |
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Lycus posted:Oh man, the Nancy Grace thing was hilarious. "You mean a private space, like your home? Where you're supposed to taking care of you children, or cooking at a gas stove, or lighting a fireplace? You mean that place? Yeah, no!" "POTHEADS always use circular logic when they are asked a question" gently caress me, she is such a heinous yeti!
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# ? Jan 8, 2014 10:40 |
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Powercrazy posted:
Secondly, if you have been paying attention, you would have noticed that a few of the retail shops are already expanding their business by huge amounts. One local business owner said she just bought 3 acres of land and will be building 3 acres of green houses on that land to grow. She is looking for even more space because in her opinion she can "sell as much as I can grow." Like Mason Tvert says, the lines for legal marijuana aren't any different than the lines for a new iPhone or for an Xbox. This is a unavailable-before, newly-released commodity. Of course the retail prices are high. You know what, we all know the prices are high too. We were talking about it while waiting in line, but we still had our money ready. When legal marijuana comes to your town you will be waiting in line with extra cash too, not buying from a dealer.
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# ? Jan 8, 2014 15:47 |
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I think a question that remains is whether they'll boost supply enough for the price to ever fall any, or if it'll hold steady either due to slow increase in taxes or just sticky prices in general. After years of shopping around in Austin, the price I was able to get on 1/1/14 was only ~$5.00 worse for a quarter of flower that was way better than anything I'd ever been able to find at that price point. I'm not complaining, but surely that price can come down. The person in line near me that seemed the most up-to-date on his info seemed convinced that suppliers will never feel any pressure to lower prices, but I feel like over time, onerous or not, more people will go through the process of obtaining retail licenses and competition has to kick in at some point.
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# ? Jan 8, 2014 16:35 |
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WampaLord posted:I find this extremely hard to believe, or I guess drug dealers really have adapted well to modern technology. Regardless, I doubt most people know how to access said catalog. Check your weed buying privilege. Honestly though, considering the people are demanding more than the dispensaries have available, the black market may be the only option. Perhaps there will not be as many drug dealers all over the place, but there will be less. Good drug dealers will stay in the game, while the mediocre dealers are weeded out.
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# ? Jan 8, 2014 17:03 |
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Guys its literally been eight days, current prices will not be final prices. Especially not once other states begin to legalize and eventually the feds. Whenever a new hot market emerges you can expect profits and competition to rise. In time eventually the curve for profits will begin to dip as competition increases, and prices will also fall.
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# ? Jan 8, 2014 17:14 |
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# ? Jun 6, 2024 05:18 |
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numbs posted:Honestly though, considering the people are demanding more than the dispensaries have available, the black market may be the only option. Perhaps there will not be as many drug dealers all over the place, but there will be less. Good drug dealers will stay in the game, while the mediocre dealers are weeded out. Hey. People can wait. Seriously who would buy something legal from the black market unless it has it at incredibly discounted prices? Its legal now. And its barely been a week. Give it time. All i hope for is that weed stores dont become fronts. It would seriously damage the movement and give a lot of rhetoric for the opposing side to keep repeating. I would think the populace is more concerned about the crimes around weed than the supposed dangers of using it.
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# ? Jan 8, 2014 17:37 |