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Maybe if the plus patch changed something but from what I remember it was really dull. Wasn't it just talk to Vandal to initiate it, then talk to the girl in the club and pass a skill check to send her to the clinic? Been a while since I played so maybe it was better than I remember but if the spoiled bit is accurate it's probably not worth bothering with unless more people would rather see it than not. There are plenty more interesting things to see instead.
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Jan 7, 2014 07:36
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Traxus IV posted:Maybe if the plus patch changed something but from what I remember it was really dull. Wasn't it just talk to Vandal to initiate it, then talk to the girl in the club and pass a skill check to send her to the clinic? Been a while since I played so maybe it was better than I remember but if the spoiled bit is accurate it's probably not worth bothering with unless more people would rather see it than not. There are plenty more interesting things to see instead. Unless the plus patch changed it, this is also my memory of this little sidequest. I find it useful as a quest if you ever need to intentionally drop your humanity to show how this game lets you play an absolute monster but I normally don't enjoy that. Mechanics chat, my first run through this game was a Ventrue, and while my recent run of the Tremere has gone fine, I actually feel like Ventrue have access to the best tool in the game for trivializing the various combat sequences. Fortitude does heavy lifting in basically all circumstances, and at higher levels it's basically god mode. Presuming you have something resembling a way to deal damage (even blood buff and your fists can serve), Fortitude just lets you win fights and never die.
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Jan 7, 2014 07:50
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I'm kind of torn about posting this since it regards upcoming events, but also events just passed, so I'll spoiler it and we'll see. Teeny tiny spoiler about upcoming quest/note for gatz: In the plus patch, there's humanity loss for taking the donation box money. You can bypass it by telling Jeanette that you aren't going to take the money, and she explains what really happens to the money, letting you take it with a clear conscience. This does not affect her happiness with you.
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Jan 7, 2014 08:34
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gatz posted:Does anyone else want to see this? Hey, you disrupted the operation, it’s only polite that you help remedy that.
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Jan 7, 2014 08:41
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Pickled Tink posted:I'm kind of torn about posting this since it regards upcoming events, but also events just passed, so I'll spoiler it and we'll see. Whoops, I already recorded that part. Oh well, humanity losses are a pretty minor thing anyway.
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Jan 7, 2014 08:44
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gatz posted:Whoops, I already recorded that part. Oh well, humanity losses are a pretty minor thing anyway. Actually, that's in the original game as well, from my experiences. Agreed, lots of ways to fix humanity
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Jan 7, 2014 16:21
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gatz posted:Does anyone else want to see this? Humanity is for losers. Do it.
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Jan 7, 2014 18:44
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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There's not much point to Humanity losses when you can just hit a button in one of the clubs and wander off to make some coffee to get it back 
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Jan 7, 2014 18:51
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Shugojin posted:There's not much point to Humanity losses when you can just hit a button in one of the clubs and wander off to make some coffee to get it back That only works once per club. Of course, there are 3 of them in the game.
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Jan 7, 2014 18:53
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   Gallery Noir. We've walked past it a bunch of times, but there's always been no way to get in. The front door's locked, but now there's a chubby cop standing in the alley next to the building. He might be our way in.  This sliver of alley two feet from the sidewalk is private property. This guy is part of the problem. We might get him to become part of the solution, though...  [Seduction] Wow. The way you said that, it was so... commanding. [Boastful, hiking up his drawers]Huh. Well, missy... that's just a natural response that people have to someone in my kind of position, huh. The risk, the prestige, the authority... it's a tough job, but somebody's gotta do it. Wanna know a secret? Power is a real turn on to me. [A bit shocked, but keeping up the ruse]Uh... yeah, you know, you'd be surprised how often I hear that in this line of work. Heh. It's the uniform, you know. Women just can't get over the uniform. Oh... don't stop talking.   How about we get to know each other better right now.   He drops the key. We can now enter through the front entrance. An option for a stealth-oriented character is to enter further down the alley through a small entrance in the parking garage, and lockpick the back door.  Jeanette hinted that there would be a trick to slashing these paintings.  Let's take a closer look at one of these.  Caine, the first vampire. Our Sire's Sire. We have to put slash these painting in historical order. We all know which one comes first. We have to slash these with the knife, just so you know. Nothing else works.  Caine Slays Abel whitewolf.wikia.com posted:A farmer named Cain prepared a sacrificial offering to his god, of his finest fruits and vegetables. His brother Abel also prepared a sacrificial offering, it being of the finest animals that he had raised. Either there was a dispute over whose offering was better, or their god really favored Abel's over Cain's. The final result ended in Cain "sacrificing" Abel on the sacrificial alter, his brother being the "finest" offering he could give.  Caine Cursed by God Genesis 4:15 posted:And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him. whitewolf.wikia.com posted:Needless to say, Caine's "Father" cursed him with a mark, and cast him out to wander in darkness in the Land of Nod.  Caine Meets Lilith whitewolf.wikia.com posted:Roaming the Land of Nod, Cain encounters Lilith. She sees that he is cold and hungry, and she welcomes him into her warmth. She identifies herself as Adam's first wife, the original wife of Cain's father. After staying with her for some time, the two become lovers. He realizes that she has powers and magic that he too would like to possess. So he pleads to her for these gifts. The hesitant Lilith then prepares an Awakening ceremony by cutting herself with a knife, bleeding into a bowl, and giving it to him so that he may drink.  Caine Spurns Lilith whitewolf.wikia.com posted:After Cain partakes of Lilith's blood, he is visited by three angels who are agents of God. Each angel offers Cain a chance to repent for the murder of Abel. However, Cain rejects each of them. And for each angel he rejects, a curse is added on to him. He and his children are cursed with a weakness to fire, vulnerability to sunlight and the Beast Within that hungers for blood. A fourth angel then appeared to offer the way of Golconda, the only way to "light", by the mercy of God. After the experience, Caine becomes officially "Awakened", possessing the following Disciplines: Celerity, Potence, Fortitude, Obfuscate, Dominate, Presence, Protean, Animalism, and Auspex. Caine then became aware of the Path of Blood, the Final Path from which all paths stem. And with all these powers, he breaks his bond with Lilith and leaves her. After slashing all four paintings...      Something forms in the middle...  It's a vampire made from blood! Watch Boss Fight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVtE7aqTc8A  The blood guardian is the toughest boss fight yet.  His attacks deal moderate damage, but the kicker is that they stagger you back every time you're hit. It looks like the blood guardian is using feral claws.  The best thing to do is strafe around until it attacks, then use the opening to land a hit or two. It's still difficult, since you're likely to get hit in the process of forming a combo attack.  It will occasionally land a critical hit on you, as well.  More dots in fortitude would have helped to soak some of that damage, but we get the job done anyway.  The guardian melts into a pool of blood that dissipates pretty quickly after forming.  Jeanette told us to steal the charity box. It's an optional thing to do.  But if we do, we suffer a humanity loss in addition to gaining $250. There is a way to avoid the humanity loss which I didn't take: Pickled Tink posted:In the plus patch, there's humanity loss for taking the donation box money. You can bypass it by telling Jeanette that you aren't going to take the money, and she explains what really happens to the money, letting you take it with a clear conscience. This does not affect her happiness with you. Pickled Tink posted:Also, I should update my earlier comment on the humanity loss. It is broken in the base game (Which is why I mentioned it, since my first few runs were in a functional unpatched game) and you get the humanity loss either way that way, but it gets fixed with patching either plus or not. I was in a hurry when I typed my previous one and just ran with the patch version I used as a shorthand to refer to the whole patch. I am sorry. We'd have to head back to Jeanette either way. * * *   Hopefully she'll be pleas--  Er - The museum! That was MY event! Did you think I wouldn't find out?!?That explains the Vampire themed paintings, and the fact that Therese had an "Art Coordinator" in her contacts. Wait - Shut up! I thought I could control my sister as long as Tung was out of the picture, but nothing's changed! I should've expected that you'd succumb to Jeanette's influence like all the others. But how dare you!This dialogue takes on different forms depending on your level of trust with Therese. I didn't do it! I swear!We're forced to lie here, for some reason.  Excellent! I'll take that. However... Yes. There's only one problem. If Tung gets word that I threatened Jeanette, which he most certainly already has, it's not likely he'll believe me. So, in order to call off the feud, you're going to have to convince Jeanette to forgive me first. For Santa Monica's most powerful Kindred, I'd be happy to. I made some threats against my sister - idle threats - involving fire and her impious satin sheets. She took them quite seriously and is avoiding me. I want to meet with her and explain that they were said in the heat of the moment. I've been calling Therese the prince of Santa Monica, but she's actually an anarch equivalent: a Baron. This is in striking contradiction to the principles of anarchism, where everything is organized from the horizontally, in federated structures, rather than top-down, hierarchical ones. A structure more compatible with anarchism would be where delegates are given binding mandates to fulfil -- which they themselves play a role in forming -- are always subject to immediate recall, and always return to the community to which they originate. To prevent any sort of new ruling class from forming, in addition to further making political activity a normal part of life, the delegate position would be rotated between as many who are willing as frequently as possible. The anarch movement doesn't have this, and the writers seemingly don't know about this: Guide to the Anarchs (Revised) posted:[M]ost of [the Anarch Movement's] members understand that they're struggling for something more, that they're trying to remove the status quo to make room for a better structure, not merely to level the field. And any organization with a purpose, any population that hopes to expand and ward off its enemies and rivals, requires real leadership. [p. 50] The writers forget that "real leadership" is not equivalent with hierarchical structures. A further example: Guide to the Anarchs (Revised) posted:The anarchs ... know that any territory with even a modest Kindred population requires someone to moderate it. ... A baron ... is much more of a local lord, a landowner -- someone who may govern the people below him, but can hardly be said to hold supreme power. [p. 50] This "moderator" class would form the new ruling class if any real Kindred revolution were to occur. Even though the writers insist that a baron isn't really a prince, it is obvious that a baron is a ruler that simply can't get away with having as much power as a prince. This has nothing to do with anarchism. The writers forget that, for anarchists, freedom [in means] is the indispensable prerequisite for freedom [in ends]. To quote Kant, of all people, in his defence of the French Revolution: Immanuel Kant posted:One cannot arrive at the maturity for freedom without having already acquired it. One must be free to learn how to make use of ones powers freely and usefully. ... [O]ne can achieve reason only through ones own experiences, and one must be free to be able to undertake them. A fuller examination of the anarch movement will come later in the let's play. Moving on... If the Baron of Santa Monica wants her sister back, I will get her sister back. For all her unwholesome diversions and irritating disruptions, I should be less tolerant of her. She is my sister, however, and I suppose I'm obligated to forgive her her trespasses. I did sire her, after all. Please... be quick about it. Alright. I'll take care of it. Later. Giving the pendant to Therese has completed the 'The Ghost Haunts at Midnight' quest. We have laid the spirit to rest. There are two new emails in Jeanette's laptop. 3 posted:<Subject> re: Santa Monica is MY city!! 4 posted:<Subject> re: Santa Monics is MY city!! Back to the diner...  This is the last time we'll have to enter the diner.  The place is deserted other than those four in the corner and the one guy behind the counter. The phone is on the right.  The four start shooting at us as soon as we reach the phone!  Fortitude works wonders. Three of them have pistols, but one has a pump-action shotgun that really packs a punch at close range.  It's not too difficult of a fight.   The one problem with this shotgun, aside from the poor range, is that the fire rate is so low because of the pump action. The phone in the corner is now ringing. Weird that it only happened after the ambush was finished.  I'm terribly sorry about that. My sister was just furious about your refusal to take part in her designs, so she sent those men to kill you. But I'm going to make sure it never happens again. Drop by, we'll take care of this Tung business.Refusal to take part in her designs? But we already did...  She's crazy! HELP!Oh poo poo! No time to waste!  Hopefully we're on time--  Therese? But where's Jeanette?  No...     You never gave me credit for anything, Therese! I was the one calling the shots! Bertram was dancing on my leash! How does it feel to know that I beat you?Dialogue Options 1. What's going on here? 2. Therese? 3. Jeanette? 4. [Persuade] Why are you both fighting? You can see that there are essentially three ways this conversation can go. [Persuade] Why are you both fighting? Isn't it obvious? I'm about to rid the night of this deviant, back-stabbing whore! Do you realize that, despite her condition, she still... fornicates - with kine, no less! So despicable... so unclean. You're one to talk, dear sister, or should I say Daddy's little girl. Do you want to know just how depraved the Baron of Santa Monica can be? Shut up, Jeanette! You'd love the world to think you're a saint. When you thought I was asleep, I used to hear father come in at night. I heard him whisper how much he loved you in your ear before he - Why it's so important to have a good level of trust with both Jeanette and Therese is if you don't have a high enough persuade skill to gain access to the blue dialogue options. If you are careful, switching between siding with Therese and Jeanette, while having a high level of trust with both, can have the same effect as the persuasion dialogue options. [Persuade] Both of you stop. Don't you want to hear what happened? How she became the pillar of the community she is today? Shut up! Just shut up! [Persuade] Stop it right now, both of you. Don't try and stop me. I've had to overlook her treachery, her seduction, relations with my enemies - and the consequences of it - but I won't endure her any longer. Endure me? Dear sister, you've done everything you could to smother me. You'd love to bury me in your closet, along with all your other skeletons. I'm the good girl. You're the wicked one. You've done nothing but plot against me - when I had our best interests at heart. And despite that, I've always covered up your mistakes. I've taken care of you. And this is how you repay me? Taken care of me? You've done nothing but keep me down, blamed me for every mistake. Did you expect me to let you rule my life until the end of time? No, sister, you've had it coming since our last sunrise. We can see how this quest can play out. I'm going to let the thread decide our course of action. Do we side with Therese, Jeanette, or try to get them to make peace with each other? gatz fucked around with this message at 10:54 on Feb 17, 2014 |
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Jan 8, 2014 02:54
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You should make peace. Because why not?
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Jan 8, 2014 03:00
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Make Peace. I can't remember if it's ever explicitly stated, but it's widely assumed that Jeanette and Therese are (a?) Malkavian - though it is quite possible to be a batshit insane vampire without being a member of the batshit insane vampire clan. Vandal's unbalanced nature backs this up - along with obsession and obedience, long-term ghoulification also passes on a minor version of the clan's quirks. Someone drinking Nosferatu blood can get nasty-looking skin conditions, someone drinking Brujah blood can get a shorter temper, and someone drinking Malkavian blood can go absolutely nuts.
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Jan 8, 2014 03:16
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Definitely go for peace between the two. Also, I'm looking forward to hearing more about anarchism as an actual political movement and how it corresponds (or doesn't) with the Anarch movement in Vampire!
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Jan 8, 2014 03:37
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I like the option to make peace. The VA for this conversation is amazing. I really love everything about this encounter, and the many directions it can go. I also love all the hints leading up to it.
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Jan 8, 2014 03:46
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gatz posted:Do we side with Therese, Jeanette, or try to get them to make peace with each other? Another vote for making peace. Tehan posted:I can't remember if it's ever explicitly stated, but it's widely assumed that Jeanette and Therese are (a?) Malkavian I can't remember for sure, but I think Jeanette specifically confirms this if the player is also a Malkavian.
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Jan 8, 2014 03:52
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Tehan posted:I can't remember if it's ever explicitly stated, but it's widely assumed that Jeanette and Therese are (a?) Malkavian - though it is quite possible to be a batshit insane vampire without being a member of the batshit insane vampire clan. Vandal's unbalanced nature backs this up - along with obsession and obedience, long-term ghoulification also passes on a minor version of the clan's quirks. Someone drinking Nosferatu blood can get nasty-looking skin conditions, someone drinking Brujah blood can get a shorter temper, and someone drinking Malkavian blood can go absolutely nuts. I've read that a Malkavian PC can figure out (obliquely) the entire deal here when first meeting either of them. Good luck figuring out what the Malkavian PC means by their reaction, though.
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Jan 8, 2014 03:53
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Xarlaxas posted:Definitely go for peace between the two. Anarchs are, if I recall, one of the groups of vampires that aren't part of the Sabbat or Camarilla. Most of those groups are the independent clans, but Anarchs are more like the larger umbrella organizations. I guess they're less uptight than the Camarilla and less loving nuts than the Sabbat.
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Jan 8, 2014 03:58
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Cythereal posted:I've read that a Malkavian PC can figure out (obliquely) the entire deal here when first meeting either of them. Good luck figuring out what the Malkavian PC means by their reaction, though. Goddamn, that really makes me want to run through Santa Monica with a Malkavian once we move on to another hub. Actually, that sounds like a good idea for a couple updates between hubs...
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Jan 8, 2014 04:01
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gatz posted:Goddamn, that really makes me want to run through Santa Monica with a Malkavian once we move on to another hub. Actually, that sounds like a good idea for a couple updates between hubs...
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Jan 8, 2014 04:03
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Cythereal posted:I've read that a Malkavian PC can figure out (obliquely) the entire deal here when first meeting either of them. Good luck figuring out what the Malkavian PC means by their reaction, though. This is true. I only got a bit into downtown with my Malk, but I remember that your Malk PC refers to them as Sisters of Janus. If you know your Roman gods that makes it pretty clear.
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Jan 8, 2014 04:10
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I never saw the Anarch movement as actual anarchists, just the Vampire equivalent. True anarchism is kind of hard when you have a Sire system built into your very nature.
Thesaya fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Jan 8, 2014 |
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Jan 8, 2014 04:14
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Thesaya posted:I never saw the Anarch movement of actual anarchists, just the Vampire equivalent. True anarchism is kind of hard when you have a Sire system built into your very nature. Yeah, and even Anarchs recognize some basic rules to stay under humans' radar.
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Jan 8, 2014 04:18
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Remora posted:This is true. I only got a bit into downtown with my Malk, but I remember that your Malk PC refers to them as Sisters of Janus. If you know your Roman gods that makes it pretty clear. Malkavians also have an uncanny ability to recognize one another, which is related to how Malkav literally turned into a psychic network that connects all his progeny when someone tried to kill him. Tapping into the Malkavian network is an alternate discipline Malkavians get which can offer useful insights into their current situation.
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Jan 8, 2014 05:42
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Remora posted:This is true. I only got a bit into downtown with my Malk, but I remember that your Malk PC refers to them as Sisters of Janus. If you know your Roman gods that makes it pretty clear. Also, if you ask Mercutio about them as a Malk he gives you a further hint.
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Jan 8, 2014 05:55
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Make peace. Anyway, I never thought Anarchs were anarchists. Or at least not peaceful anarchists. Might makes right and a Baron's got a whole lotta rights. It's hard to pick out the most noir-ish part of this game, but the diner shootout sticks out to me. I walked in, stared at this out of place group of tough guys, walked away uneasy in the silence... then a few seconds later was ducking behind the counter and sending bullets back their way.
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Jan 8, 2014 05:59
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:Malkavians also have an uncanny ability to recognize one another, which is related to how Malkav literally turned into a psychic network that connects all his progeny when someone tried to kill him. Tapping into the Malkavian network is an alternate discipline Malkavians get which can offer useful insights into their current situation. The Malkavian Madness Network is also implied in Mage to be connected to the Digital Web, which is basically the spirit world version of the internet and the spirit world of information, which may also further justify Malkavian insight-you're literally connected to the mountain of Correspondence that represents information, Mt. Qaf, which the Digital Web is built on. Basically, the Malkavian Network impinges on and can access the primordial, ideal state of information, so even if nobody should know what gives the Malkavian the flash of insight, sometimes they can just pluck it out of pure information.
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Jan 8, 2014 06:13
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Wait, Malkavians are connected to the internet 24/7?
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Jan 8, 2014 06:17
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Ensign Expendable posted:Wait, Malkavians are connected to the internet 24/7? Since even before the internet existed. Explains a lot, doesn't it?
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Jan 8, 2014 06:20
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I'm gonna say... Jeanette. She is Nicer than her sister.
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Jan 8, 2014 06:23
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:Since even before the internet existed. Explains a lot, doesn't it? This is a little tangential, but White Wolf also played with this concept a bit in some of their other old World of Darkness lines. Hermits in Hunter: the Reckoning had issues where they couldn't turn off the messages from the Heralds that they were recieving, and it drove them nuts. Waywards also couldn't turn off their Second Sight, and they were BONKERS.
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Jan 8, 2014 06:29
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Ensign Expendable posted:Wait, Malkavians are connected to the internet 24/7? Well, the spirit world that grew out of computers and the internet becoming a thing/underlies the internet, to be more precise. But I'm sure it's filled with the spirits of cute cat pictures, porn, and idiots making bad arguments on forums.
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Jan 8, 2014 06:30
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There is no darker nephandi hellscape than the digital spiritworld reflection of 4chan.
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Jan 8, 2014 06:32
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The "original" Anarch Revolt took place in the Dark Ages, in the early 1400s - they were striking down the Elders that ruled over them and yadda yadda yadda turning against the natural appointed order yadda. They ended up forming the Sabbat. The "modern" Anarch Revolt happened because the idiot Prince of LA Don Sebastian decided that it would be funnier to have Jeremy MacNeil flogged in front of his Court instead of doing the usual thing, which is just outright killing the person. That did not go over well, and led to the uprising. There's no real cohesive philosophy with the Anarch Movement, as you have everything from those trying "true" Anarchy (who tend to get duped by Elders) to quasi-Feudalism to the loose collective that is the Unbound Movement. In the end, I really don't think that White Wolf really had a clue what to do with the Anarchs other than make them just generic trouble makers, but later on down the line you can kind of pick up a few pieces here and there. The Camarilla is a creation of the Toreador, Tremere, and Ventrue and you can see the clan philosophies entwined there - a cold, ruthless streak with an air of respectability. The Sabbat was dreamed up by the Tzimice and the Lasombra, and has their brutal stamp all over it. The Anarchs are more of a Brujah thing, and you can kind of glimpse them TRYING to go for a route that kind of respects Humanity (the Road that the clan worked to push). It's just that it came a little too late after you had all of the stereotypical bikers with their Sharpie tattoos. They're the "grab bag" approach to Kindred politics, with no real cohesion. Kind of like the Carthians in nWoD. *EDIT* Also the only sensible option is to kill off both of them, but since that's not available make peace. citybeatnik fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Jan 8, 2014 |
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Jan 8, 2014 07:34
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We bothered to unlock the special dialog, therefore we must use it. Make peace
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Jan 8, 2014 07:47
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Make peace, might as well make the best of this run. One of the first narrative LPs of this game gave me my favorite line for this whole situation. All hail Tourette, the schizo queen of Santa Monica.
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Jan 8, 2014 08:01
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Voting to make peace also. One thing about the Voerman sisters I like thinking about is Therese's comments on how "they" tried to separate the two of them and that she is Jeanette's sire. That, plus what Jeanette has to say about Therese and their father if you let her talk and also the big painting of the three of them, makes their origins pretty unlcear. I like that they don't just spell it out for you one way or the other, if they've always been split personalities or if there really were two sisters and one went all crazy at some point. It's left for you to wonder and draw your own conclusions and I feel like there's fairly compelling arguments for both sides. Ha. Both sides. (related to above spoiler)Also yeah, I love that their names conjoin into Tourette. It's super neat. Don't remember if it was deliberate on Troika's part or a fan response kind of thing, though.
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Jan 8, 2014 08:55
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Traxus IV posted:
The sound files for her are labeled that, so it was a deliberate act by Troika.
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Jan 8, 2014 09:04
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gatz posted:Goddamn, that really makes me want to run through Santa Monica with a Malkavian once we move on to another hub. Actually, that sounds like a good idea for a couple updates between hubs... I really recommend it. Almost every 'random' thing the Malk says is actually foreshadowing, a pun, or commentary, they're just so roundabout in the way they say it you usually don't understand what they mean until the cards are already on the table. Having the Malk version of the dialogue between hubs would let us pick apart every word of it and try to figure out what they were really talking about.
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Jan 8, 2014 09:08
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OAquinas posted:The sound files for her are labeled that, so it was a deliberate act by Troika. Super duper neat 
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Jan 8, 2014 09:18
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I’m curious, does anyone have any ideas where the idea for the Malkavians came from? Most of the other clans seem to be based on existing vampire archetypes – Ventrue are Dracula-style aristocrats, Toreador are Lestat-style hedonists, Gangrel are animalistic killers, Nosferatu are… Nosferatu. But I can’t think of any precedent for ‘batshit insane’ as a vampire archetype, and it seems like such a strange concept for White Wolf to pull out of nowhere.
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