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Cease to Hope posted:I thought that was just code for "Obama sucks". It was, but the particular tone to it was that he supposedly* did the sort of shady things that Christie looks increasingly to be mired in. *Other evidence offered: Him being a democrat, black.
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Jan 8, 2014 23:35
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Captain_Maclaine posted:It was, but the particular tone to it was that he supposedly* did the sort of shady things that Christie looks increasingly to be mired in. Since when has anyone ever given a poo poo about the pretenses for that sort of thing, though?
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Jan 8, 2014 23:39
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It was of course code for Obama sucks, but the reason that it became a popular phrase to use against him was because it has such a bad reputation.
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Jan 8, 2014 23:41
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Cease to Hope posted:Since when has anyone ever given a poo poo about the pretenses for that sort of thing, though? Because "chicago politics" is an actual thing that did/does occur, due to the particular history of Democratic machine politics in that city/region. Since Obama has history in the region, it lends some, though not enough, plausibility to the accusation which is what that sort of attack needs if it's to get off the ground.
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Jan 8, 2014 23:43
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http://www.northjersey.com/fortlee/GWB_lane_closures_delayed_EMS_response_in_Fort_Lee.html?mobile=1&ic=1&iphone=1http://www.northjersey.com/fortlee/GWB_lane_closures_delayed_EMS_response_in_Fort_Lee.html?mobile=1&ic=1&iphone=1 posted:Emergency responders were delayed in attending to four medical situations – including one in which a 91-year-old woman lay unconscious – due to traffic gridlock caused by unannounced closures of access lanes to the George Washington Bridge, according to the head of the borough’s EMS department.
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Jan 8, 2014 23:50
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My point is rather that nobody is going to give a poo poo about any sort of attempt to link Chicago's history of dirty politics and Chris Christie since it's pretty tenuous, and the fact that people used it as some sort of weak knock against Obama isn't proof to the contrary.
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Jan 8, 2014 23:51
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Remember my point earlier about reactions from Republican party actors? This particular one is hardly surprising given what jeffersonlives brough up regarding Christie's war with his son in the legislature, but it'll provide a template for others who want to speak out against Christie.quote:“My advice to him: get it all out now,” Kean [Sr.] said, in a phone interview from his office in New Jersey. “He cannot let some committee, or the press, pull out these problems piece by piece. Let’s get the whole story on the table. If mistakes were made, admit it. If he doesn’t, it’s going to be like water torture.”
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Jan 8, 2014 23:51
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Cease to Hope posted:My point is rather that nobody is going to give a poo poo about any sort of attempt to link Chicago's history of dirty politics and Chris Christie since it's pretty tenuous Well I didn't say that they'd try to link Christie to a Chicago political machine, since that makes no sense, my point is that this is the kind of dirty local politics that people react badly too, which is why I think this is the kind of scandal that could cause a lot of problems.
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Jan 8, 2014 23:54
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I personally can't wait for the GOP primary contenders to run incredibly unflattering ads linking Christie with the mob.
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Jan 9, 2014 00:13
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Joementum posted:Kean, a Republican, says many Christie allies and top GOP donors privately fretted on Wednesday that the governor and his team stayed quiet as the uproar unfolded. “People are a bit stunned,” Kean said. “During past controversies, his advisers were always quick to provide his circle with talking points. Well, today those talking points never came. We’ve heard nothing.” The hungry sheep look up, and are not fed, But swollen with wind and the rank mist they draw, Rot inwardly, and foul contagion spread ...
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Jan 9, 2014 00:15
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Please don't sully the reputation of Chicago-style politics. We get things done here and don't get caught.
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Jan 9, 2014 01:14
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Misandrist Duck posted:Please don't sully the reputation of Chicago-style politics. We get things done here and don't get caught. How any mayors or governors have you guys put in the slammer so far?
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Jan 9, 2014 01:54
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Misandrist Duck posted:Please don't sully the reputation of Chicago-style politics. We get things done here and don't get caught. Unfortunately, they do get caught, and that's why we have the reputation. When I was working in California, I saw plenty of shenanigans that would have resulted in arrests in Chicago, but were ignored. Example - plenty of state legislators using funds for personal use just like Jesse Jackson, and the UC Regents pulling strings for friends, which resulted in several Illinois trustees being removed.
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Jan 9, 2014 02:00
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Misandrist Duck posted:Please don't sully the reputation of Chicago-style politics. We get things done here and don't get caught. Hey man as a dude from Louisiana I'm pretty sure you beat us for lawmakers in jail, so you aren't doing that second part well.
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Jan 9, 2014 02:26
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Spun Dog posted:How any mayors or governors have you guys put in the slammer so far? Daley isn't in jail, although I'm sure someone is going to murder him eventually for the colossal gently caress-over of the entire metropolitan area's population with that parking meter deal.
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Jan 9, 2014 02:48
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jeffersonlives posted:If you're Christie, you're also going to have a really hard time getting the state senator majority leader to really fight for you when you stuck a shiv in his back two months ago. It's unlikely to happen but this is why you don't go to war with your own legislative caucuses unless you know you'll win, and Christie's been openly antagonizing them for about a year. Senate Minority Leader you mean. As you said the impeachment will probably come to nothing, this isn't enough to be impeached over and he still has high popularity ratings.
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Jan 9, 2014 03:08
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Cliff Racer posted:Senate Minority Leader you mean. As you said the impeachment will probably come to nothing, this isn't enough to be impeached over and he still has high popularity ratings. Good catch, I keep forgetting they didn't win the state senate back, defying all expectations of coattails.
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Jan 9, 2014 03:13
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Cliff Racer posted:Senate Minority Leader you mean. As you said the impeachment will probably come to nothing, this isn't enough to be impeached over and he still has high popularity ratings. Is gross malfeasance in office not worth an impeachment? Do you worth in not something he should be removed from office for or something he won't be removed from office for?
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Jan 9, 2014 03:46
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Costa has Christie people telling him that they doubt any of the top staff will get fired over this, which would be shocking since at least three of them were on the email chain and who knows what's in those redacted portions.
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Jan 9, 2014 03:51
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Cliff Racer posted:Senate Minority Leader you mean. As you said the impeachment will probably come to nothing, this isn't enough to be impeached over and he still has high popularity ratings. No, no this is actually a pretty big deal this time!
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Jan 9, 2014 03:52
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There is no reason why he will still have high popularity ratings in the near future. A lot of his supporters are low information voters who otherwise routinely vote Dem. I wouldn't be surprised if he sees a dip in his approval ratings.
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Jan 9, 2014 04:04
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Joementum posted:Costa has Christie people telling him that they doubt any of the top staff will get fired over this, which would be shocking since at least three of them were on the email chain and who knows what's in those redacted portions. Has there been an explanation yet for why any of it was redacted?
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Jan 9, 2014 05:18
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Hey man as a dude from Louisiana I'm pretty sure you beat us for lawmakers in jail, so you aren't doing that second part well.
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Jan 9, 2014 08:06
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Py-O-My posted:Has there been an explanation yet for why any of it was redacted? Are the redacted portions things that investigators actually have access to?
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Jan 9, 2014 14:19
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Gabrielle Giffords went skydiving to mark her healing from the shooting 3 years ago. It relates to this thread because: quote:The office of US Vice President Joe Biden said he called Ms Giffords on Wednesday to wish her good luck. I like to think he congratulated her on becoming the new mayor of Boston. It also relates to something I thought about Joe Biden the other day. He may be better known for his personality and his symbolic acts as the lieutenant Head of State than practical policy work as vice head of government. Partially this is a result of the small powers granted to a VP by the constitution. If he runs for president, will he focus on a particular side of his work as VP? Nice guy or policy man? If so, which one?
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Jan 9, 2014 15:52
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Gates's comments were ridiculous. If you ever get a chance to watch Biden talk at length about foreign policy, he's brilliant. I mean, yeah, probably not the most brilliant foreign policy genius ever, but his breadth and depth of knowledge is amazing.
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Jan 9, 2014 16:11
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Biden's focus on gun-control seems more of an issue in a general election than his alleged executive inabilities, especially because the criticisms of his capabilities are difficult to nail down in ways other than hearsay. It's easy to deflect criticisms against experience or skills by pointing to executive delegation or some other rhetorical evasion than it is to distance oneself from politically polarizing positions. Judging from Biden's showing in the VP debates I would expect him to be capable of formulating a defense against those types of attacks, although his position on the Bin Laden raid is a low-hanging fruit. edit: Has anyone brought up the possibility for Biden's "slip" in the interview discussing the current administrations support of gay marriage to be used as rallying point for progressives by his campaign? I'm not labeling him as a leftists dream, but it seems like a very obvious and easily utilized focal point for drumming up support as a socially left candidate with general election potential. esto es malo fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Jan 9, 2014 |
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Jan 9, 2014 16:29
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Wasn't Biden partial responsible for assert forfeiture laws or am I just confusing something with right wing messaging?
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Jan 9, 2014 17:02
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joeburz posted:Biden's focus on gun-control seems more of an issue in a general election than his alleged executive inabilities, especially because the criticisms of his capabilities are difficult to nail down in ways other than hearsay. It's easy to deflect criticisms against experience or skills by pointing to executive delegation or some other rhetorical evasion than it is to distance oneself from politically polarizing positions. Judging from Biden's showing in the VP debates I would expect him to be capable of formulating a defense against those types of attacks, although his position on the Bin Laden raid is a low-hanging fruit. Biden is a standard centrist Democrat who has the added benefit of not being particularly popular among the general public (as opposed to his immense popularity people who follow internet memes). He's a paper tiger to the umpteenth degree as far as 2016 is concerned.
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Jan 9, 2014 17:12
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dilbertschalter posted:Biden is a standard centrist Democrat who has the added benefit of not being particularly popular among the general public (as opposed to his immense popularity people who follow internet memes). He's a paper tiger to the umpteenth degree as far as 2016 is concerned. I don't think he has a chance at all to win, but this thread includes the primaries not just 2016: Inevitable General Election Face-off. The Dem primary doesn't require as exaggerated of a shift to the party extreme as the GOP primary does but we should expect some tactics along the lines I mentioned.
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Jan 9, 2014 17:22
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dilbertschalter posted:Biden is a standard centrist Democrat who has the added benefit of not being particularly popular among the general public (as opposed to his immense popularity people who follow internet memes). He's a paper tiger to the umpteenth degree as far as 2016 is concerned. So who's in the best position to challenge Hillary? Or is 2016 pretty much going to be a coronation?
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Jan 9, 2014 17:36
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joeburz posted:Daley isn't in jail, although I'm sure someone is going to murder him eventually for the colossal gently caress-over of the entire metropolitan area's population with that parking meter deal. Ben Joravsky was just on Jacobin a while back talking about Daley Rahm and TIF's. Shady stuff, but certainly not that different from what you'd see anywhere. It's just patronage with a bunch of MBAs working the details, which seems to be the norm for a lot of local politics in the NE in the last decade. NE urban machine-style politics are a lot more of a blunt instrument than you see in the West and South, and that's what's going to turn primary voters off on Christie beyond the fact that he's not a raging mentally ill theocrat.
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Jan 9, 2014 17:53
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Pfirti86 posted:So who's in the best position to challenge Hillary? Or is 2016 pretty much going to be a coronation? I don't think it'll be a coronation, because people don't like coronations. A good candidate will get a large share of the vote against Hillary and win at least a few states (and if they have the political talent and campaign team of Obama it could be another very close contest). However, I think that challenger needs at least one big issue where they're clearly to the left of Hillary. Biden has trouble in that area, as he's constrained by being VP (he's not in a great position, for example to criticize Obamacare from the left, because that means undermining the administration) and his past record isn't distinguishable from hers as far as where they stand on the left/right spectrum.
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Jan 9, 2014 18:15
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menino posted:
I've seen northeastern machine politics as well as southern city style ones and there's absolutely no difference except for maybe scale. Kind of like the Sheriff's department saturating predominantly poor and black areas with cops before local elections while mysterious "You can be arrested for going to your polling place." xeroxed leaflets start showing up everywhere in those same neighborhoods. What may work worst against him is that lady dying. That's perfection when it comes to political attack ads.
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Jan 9, 2014 18:55
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Radish posted:Wasn't Biden partial responsible for assert forfeiture laws or am I just confusing something with right wing messaging?
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Jan 9, 2014 19:26
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I thought asset forfeiture had to do with drug laws. And yes, Biden shares responsibility for all of the policies of the Drug War. Including the comical RAVE Act (not that this section has any enforcement provisions, it's just hilarious): quote:(6) Because rave promoters know that Ecstasy causes the body temperature in a user to rise and as a result causes the user to become very thirsty, many rave promoters facilitate and profit from flagrant drug use at rave parties or events by selling over-priced bottles of water and charging entrance fees to `chill-rooms' where users can cool down.
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Jan 9, 2014 19:48
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The best Biden was the one that was a hair from leaping over the desk and choking Alberto Gonzales over the torture stuff back in the Bush admin.SedanChair posted:I thought asset forfeiture had to do with drug laws. And yes, Biden shares responsibility for all of the policies of the Drug War. This is a close second. The pacifiers were never a 'teeth clenching' thing (because they don't protect the molars, which are what clench) they were a 'look like babies'/'oral fixation because you're on E and loving everything feels amazing' thing.
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Jan 9, 2014 20:36
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RAVE was Hatch, wasn't it? I mean I'm sure Biden voted for it, but the bankruptcy bill was his baby.
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Jan 9, 2014 20:48
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Pfirti86 posted:So who's in the best position to challenge Hillary? Or is 2016 pretty much going to be a coronation? In my opinion Hillary would be a terrible choice for a candidate. She carries a lot of negative baggage and negativity left, right, and center. Then again, the Republicans can make even worse choices than Romney.
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Jan 9, 2014 21:19
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HFX posted:In my opinion Hillary would be a terrible choice for a candidate. She carries a lot of negative baggage and negativity left, right, and center. Then again, the Republicans can make even worse choices than Romney.
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Jan 9, 2014 21:22
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