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Riso posted:It's almost as if there is a country that has only 200 years of history pretending things before that aren't important. Germany? Is that the country we are talking about?
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Jan 10, 2014 11:13
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jb7 posted:Germany? Is that the country we are talking about? Absolutely. 
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Jan 10, 2014 11:15
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jb7 posted:Germany? Is that the country we are talking about? Don't be silly, Germany has only 12 years of history. It is known.
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Jan 10, 2014 12:47
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the jizz taxi posted:IIRC they haven't won one either. The only winning move is not to play.  But no, yeah, you're right. That was the joke. Averrences posted:They 'won' plenty during the period when they were a Great Power - the modern standpoint of 'Sweden have never fought any battle ever' is almost as disingenuous as that meme that somehow France is 'a country of cowards'. These types of limited standpoints only come about when people ignore context and only focus on the last 200 years of history. Nobody is claiming either of those things though? Nukes:  
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Jan 10, 2014 19:13
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Averrences posted:They 'won' plenty during the period when they were a Great Power - the modern standpoint of 'Sweden have never fought any battle ever' is almost as disingenuous as that meme that somehow France is 'a country of cowards'. These types of limited standpoints only come about when people ignore context and only focus on the last 200 years of history. Notice how the original post said Benito Hitlerstalin posted:Haven't lost a war (or battle, even) in over 200 years. and then this guy said the jizz taxi posted:IIRC they haven't won one either. meaning they haven't won a war in 200 years either. Do you get it? This is called context 
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Jan 10, 2014 20:40
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Jan 10, 2014 22:56
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Neat, but why are the borders so strange? Is this broken up by county?
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Jan 10, 2014 23:04
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Did the stereotype of the French as capitulating cowards exist before WWII? Besides that, I think of the last 200+ years of French military history as them being highly aggressive (Napoleonic Wars) or unwilling to give up despite long odds and questionable motives (Algeria, Indochina).
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Jan 10, 2014 23:05
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Mei-guo for United States has always thrown me off because it doesn't sound like USA, United States, or America and the meaning is beautiful country so I assume the Chinese have been trolling fat Americans for centuries.
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Jan 10, 2014 23:05
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Barudak posted:Mei-guo for United States has always thrown me off because it doesn't sound like USA, United States, or America and the meaning is beautiful country so I assume the Chinese have been trolling fat Americans for centuries. It's the "mer" part I think, like Ah-mei-ri-ca. Or at least that's how I've always thought of it.
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Jan 10, 2014 23:11
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appropriatemetaphor posted:It's the "mer" part I think, like Ah-mei-ri-ca. Or at least that's how I've always thought of it. Yeah, from what I've found it's basically a shortened version of the "proper" name because it's too long to say (what the proper name is varies by story, but whatever).
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Jan 10, 2014 23:13
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Farecoal posted:Notice how the original post said You seem awfully hurt by what was meant to be a throw-away comment correcting a dumb historical meme? anyway - my favourite 'what could have been' 
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Jan 10, 2014 23:17
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Barudak posted:Mei-guo for United States has always thrown me off because it doesn't sound like USA, United States, or America and the meaning is beautiful country so I assume the Chinese have been trolling fat Americans for centuries. I like to think it was named that so that hucksters could more easily convince Chinese workers to emmigrate to build rail roads. 
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Jan 11, 2014 00:28
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Edible Hat posted:Did the stereotype of the French as capitulating cowards exist before WWII? Besides that, I think of the last 200+ years of French military history as them being highly aggressive (Napoleonic Wars) or unwilling to give up despite long odds and questionable motives (Algeria, Indochina). It started with the Franco-Prussian War and World War II made it stick. Getting completely and totally overrun by Germans within weeks of the beginning of the war on two out of three occasions across a 70 year timespan will make that kind of reputation, especially when they are far higher profile than the other conflicts (Neither Algeria nor Indochina featured a quick French surrender, but both were utter debacles and thus get lumped in).
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Jan 11, 2014 00:30
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oldman posted:I like to think it was named that so that hucksters could more easily convince Chinese workers to emmigrate to build rail roads. That'd be the Chinese name for San Francisco (and the Western seaboard in general): Gold Mountain. It doesn't get more blatant than that.
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Jan 11, 2014 10:11
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Averrences posted:You seem awfully hurt by what was meant to be a throw-away comment correcting a dumb historical meme? Really, it was a joke and you got so defensive about it you couldn't let it slide. Their joke wasn't wrong about its historical facts either.
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Jan 11, 2014 19:21
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I never realized how large Tibet used to be, no wonder china doesn't want to give it up. Also, if they would for any reason give it up, would Tibet go back to being a monarchy? Is that the plan?
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Jan 12, 2014 06:48
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Despite how huge it is, there's not much of value, and almost nobody living there. It's just a prestige thing.
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Jan 12, 2014 07:06
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Kamrat posted:Also, if they would for any reason give it up, would Tibet go back to being a monarchy? Is that the plan? There is no plan; China is not going to give Tibet up. and it isn't worthless land, there's an abundance of mineral wealth, it's just prohibitively expensive to extract.
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Jan 12, 2014 07:16
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Kamrat posted:I never realized how large Tibet used to be, no wonder china doesn't want to give it up. "Farther India"? What is this? 
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Jan 12, 2014 07:18
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Southeast Asia was very much in the Indosphere, it's just archaic language is all.
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Jan 12, 2014 07:20
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Hedera Helix posted:"Farther India"? What is this? The East Indies, if you will. From Wikipedia:  The Indian Subcontinent (peach), the Indies/East Indies (orange) and Western New Guinea (yellow). edit: this one does it better.  Wikipedia posted:Indian cultural zone
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Jan 12, 2014 07:23
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Koramei posted:There is no plan; China is not going to give Tibet up. I know they're not going to give it up, I was just thinking hypothetically.
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Jan 12, 2014 07:26
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There is no hypothetical situation. Unless China gets a Gorbachev-esque type of leader, Tibet is not going anywhere.
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Jan 12, 2014 08:57
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Kamrat posted:I never realized how large Tibet used to be, no wonder china doesn't want to give it up. Not monarchy, theocracy.
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Jan 12, 2014 09:01
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The Dalai Lama has, IIRC, renounced any temporal power over Tibet and said that any independent government shouldn't be Lamaist.
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Jan 12, 2014 09:10
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Kamrat posted:I know they're not going to give it up, I was just thinking hypothetically. That's like asking hypothetically if the USA gave up Massachusetts, would it go back to being a colony of the Kingdom of Great Britain.
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Jan 12, 2014 10:20
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TheBalor posted:The Dalai Lama has, IIRC, renounced any temporal power over Tibet and said that any independent government shouldn't be Lamaist. I was under the impression that he wanted to get his kingdom back, interesting. Thanks for answering my question. Riso posted:Not monarchy, theocracy. I didn't realize Tibet was a theocracy before China took over, thanks for the info.
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Jan 12, 2014 11:02
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Kamrat posted:I didn't realize Tibet was a theocracy before China took over, thanks for the info. A pretty nasty one too. Other than the minerals and prestige, another reason China would never give it up is just about every major river in China comes from glaciers in Tibet. China has enough water problems without giving control over its fresh water supply to an independent state that could decide to cut them off.
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Jan 12, 2014 11:48
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Grand Fromage posted:A pretty nasty one too. I've read this a few times in this thread but no-one has gone into detail. I know literally nothing about pre-PRC Tibet, what's the story here?
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Jan 12, 2014 11:58
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Grand Fromage posted:A pretty nasty one too.
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Jan 12, 2014 12:03
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GreenCard78 posted:Without knowing anything about The Virginian, I find it funny that it is in Wyoming. This post is from a while ago, but I'm going to answer it. The Virginian is the name of a hotel in a town called Medicine Bow, which is a bit north of Laramie. The Virginian is a novel written by Owen Wister and is considered one of the first novels of the western genre. The literary journal published by the University of Wyoming is called the Owen Wister Review for that reason. The television show is inspired by the novel. The hotel is still standing and I've driven right by it a few times while driving form Laramie to Casper.
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Jan 12, 2014 12:36
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Corrode posted:I've read this a few times in this thread but no-one has gone into detail. I know literally nothing about pre-PRC Tibet, what's the story here? http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html This is a pretty good article. You can skip to the paragraph beginning with "Religions have had a close relationship not only with violence but with economic exploitation" if you don't want to read a broader introduction. In short, the theocracy was a quasi-feudal system ruled by private and monastic landowners and the state apparatus served mostly to keep serfs pacified and protect property of the ruling classes. Also the lamas violently suppressed religious diversity.
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Jan 12, 2014 13:26
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Grand Fromage posted:A pretty nasty one too. Other than the minerals and prestige, another reason China would never give it up is just about every major river in China comes from glaciers in Tibet. China has enough water problems without giving control over its fresh water supply to an independent state that could decide to cut them off. Was going to say this. The sources of rivers are very important, and are only going to become more so in the future.
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Jan 12, 2014 16:28
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Thanks for sharing, it was a very interesting read. Before this I was under the impression that Tibet was a very laid-back religious country. It shows me how I really need to read up on Asian history.
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Jan 12, 2014 17:37
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Star Man posted:This post is from a while ago, but I'm going to answer it. The hotel is also named after the novel.
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Jan 12, 2014 22:23
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 The final destinations of some 28,000 rubber ducks lost at sea in 1992
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Jan 13, 2014 03:22
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Kamrat posted:Thanks for sharing, it was a very interesting read. Before this I was under the impression that Tibet was a very laid-back religious country. You really ought read up on asian history- And as much as I love michael parenti he is pretty wrong. Tibet was a pretty not-capitalist state, and I guess that's bad? But it was far from a theocratic hellhole- that's a position that's in line with PRC propaganda for a reason. OH NO TIBETANS MADE THINGS OUT OF PEOPLE! (It is a deeply venerative act to reuse the bones of your teacher in the making of religious artifacts). Fact is there is more modernisation in the coutnry, and a larger population. One which is mostly chinese. It's like pointing to oklahoma and going "When the natives held it, there was no free health care, people lived close to starvation and since the white man took over for them it's been a region with vastly improved quality of life. There's currently a horrid repression of people going on there, and a pretty bad genocide. It's a more complicated issue than a bunch of posters here lead on. Especially because it has been arguably worse for native tibetans since the PRC came in; there are after all numerous genocide charges levied against a place with less reporters in it than Pyongyang. http://www.businessinsider.com/spanish-arrest-warrants-over-genocide-in-tibet-2013-11 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-graham/goodbye-tibet_b_1093665.html EDIT: Also worth mentioning that the Theocrat in question is a massive advocate for social democracy, is a flaming marxist and literally a communist. Have a pretty political map and Bod Rangzen: 
Quantumfate fucked around with this message at 07:32 on Jan 13, 2014 |
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Jan 13, 2014 07:21
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Redczar posted:
This projection makes the line that goes over the North look really weird and stretched. I wonder what happened to those ducks. Did they get stuck in ice for the winter?
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Jan 13, 2014 09:06
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I think you are missing the point of his critique, Quantumfate. First, his criticism of Tibet isn't rooted in it being capitalist. It's based on the prevalent exploitative mode of land ownership and social stratification tied to it (plus on the repressions that kept it going). Second, he does in fact criticize Beijing for flooding Tibet with often racist colonists and for spending money on projects that could be described not only as a frivolous waste, but also as serving only the Han in Tibet. Third, he spends quite a lot of time highlighting Dalai Lama's ideological tenets, so his portrayal of him is far from "Theocrat". steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 09:59 on Jan 13, 2014 |
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Jan 13, 2014 09:54
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