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Does anyone have any thoughts on this game? (I'm black) http://eidogo.com/#CD5nI3UW note: my game is shoddy as hell and I make all kinds of weird mistakes which also cost me the game
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Dec 20, 2013 13:58
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| # ? May 12, 2024 22:38 |
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You need to stop touching your opponent in the beginning! Moves like 7 and 13 in the opening are total waste of moves that should be used to enclose corners or take key side points. That's all you need to know for now, go and play 5-10 more games with this opening principle in mind. You're very good for a 29k, though. It's hard to give a worthwhile analysis because there are so many mistakes at this level, as is to be expected! But luckily 90% of those mistakes can be ironed out by playing more.
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Dec 20, 2013 14:08
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Svartvit, I'll play you on KGS later today if you're interested since I, too, suffer from "not playing enough" syndrom. I'm only around 22k, so I shouldn't be much of a challenge.
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Dec 20, 2013 14:24
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Svartvit posted:Does anyone have any thoughts on this game? (I'm black) move 21, p3, is the first really questionable move, I think... with k4 there and thickness up top, white's reply at p5 was an absolute no-brainer. Playing a high approach would have forced him to make a choice, but the way it played out he got exactly what he wanted, a side territory you couldn't reduce. You got a large corner, but I don't think it's large enough to compensate. 41, e15, is pretty big but seems too singleminded compared to e6, which seems like the obvious area for both sides. After white plays there, invasions get way more difficult and he's got a follow up to press you low. Your reply at n5 looks nastier than it is, since he is so strong on both sides, and he handled it with really no loss of points. o15 is unforgivably slow. After that, white starts being weird. It looks like he got it into his mind that he was gonna kill you big in the middle, but then realized too late that it was impossible. He really doesn't need to in order to win, I think; if he'd have taken it easy he could have just cruised to a win. Maybe go through attack and defense or reducing territorial frameworks?
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Dec 20, 2013 21:21
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Fight against a 15k (apparently) go bot. I essentially applauded once I realised what had happened here. I also cried a little on the inside. Ended up losing by around 50 points because I couldn't do anything about his top. Also probably because I lost this fight down here.
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Dec 23, 2013 21:00
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http://online-go.com/game/431868 This is a game I got on at the mo, certainly not my finest hour, but I feel like the inevitable N14 by white will make me cut at N13 anyway and then that allows me to attack with M9 and I have enough liberties despite the need to link at K7. I dunno, lovely situation - perhaps a tight endgame can pull me back (such as E2), my Go is degrading recently
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Dec 24, 2013 03:29
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Kheldragar posted:Fight against a 15k (apparently) go bot. I essentially applauded once I realised what had happened here. I also cried a little on the inside. Ended up losing by around 50 points because I couldn't do anything about his top. Also probably because I lost this fight down here. Post the SGF on Eidogo in future so we can review.
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Dec 24, 2013 03:30
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Khel just beat me at 9x9 with a 3 stone handicap, by .5
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Dec 24, 2013 04:40
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Losing to a 20k can only mean one thing. More alcohol. 
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Dec 24, 2013 04:41
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its chrimstas, don't judge me. my mind is wired for 19x19. i'll have u m8
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Dec 24, 2013 04:51
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oiseaux morts 1994 posted:http://online-go.com/game/431868 H16 seems counterproductive. I'm not sure I like R11 either. It's big, but I think the center is urgent.
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Dec 24, 2013 06:32
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oiseaux morts 1994 posted:http://online-go.com/game/431868 The timing of H16 is poor. Notice how by playing H16 and its natural extension, you are weakening your H12 group because white gains strength at the top facing the center. I also don't like K10 and G11. You're better off straight up playing M10 and E12 respectively because you're going to play those moves regardless. K10/G11 just gives white the opportunity to reinforce his own stones. The game's current state is interesting.. N9 is a really strong move as white needs both F9 and K7 to make life. However, white is definitely guaranteed one eye, and will win the liberty race if black's K12 dragon is isolated. So in my opinion a move like L16 [edit: M16 might actually be the better choice..] is urgent, so you can escape to the top and live. You can be prepared to give up the top territory at K17 area to make life, because you still have the option of taking the top left corner in return. Once your K12 stones are alive you can safely attack the center with N9. N13 does not have to be played right away in my opinion. White is most likely not going to reinforce it right away (given the fight in the center/top), and cutting at N13 will induce a fight where white is already strong and black is weak. The cut is not very strong because black has no stones nearby to back it up, whereas any fight in that area will most likely lead to white gaining thickness facing the right side and allow an eventual attack on Q16/R11. Just my thoughts, hopefully put the game in a different perspective for you. [Edit: disclaimer: Make sure you read into the options because L16/M16 won't guarantee life for your dragon, the fight will get messy quite quickly.. worst case scenario, you lose M10 and just squeeze out a life with your dragon, while white gains a lot of strength facing the right.] capsule03 fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Dec 24, 2013 |
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Dec 24, 2013 22:16
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Move 7 is some poo poo; never attach to the corner after that pincer, there's no joseki for it because the pincer stone is perfectly placed to hurt you. Most two space high pincer joseki involve you jumping out somehow. I don't understand the fight this game centers around. Cutting white should not have even merited a response from him... it seems like when you're going after white like this it's a case of you trying to capture stones that are already dead. Starting this fight was a strategic error that allowed white to get back in the game after loving up royally on the bottom.
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Dec 26, 2013 18:57
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C3 isn't the start of any good result for black, true, but C5 is the start of several equal variations. I'd play L6 at L5 instead, but I'd also consider attempting a forcing play at P7 instead. If I were trying to play honestly I'd press at C6 instead of L5 or P7, since white should have extended to C8 or D7. C6, B6, C7, B7, C8, B8, C9.. white can push from behind all day on 2nd line to your advantage. Even if he lives that way and takes sente to play a big point or seek stable life on the bottom, the thickness you get from that result gives you a convincing advantage. The result to E5 was terrible for black!
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Dec 27, 2013 04:35
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Under 15 posted:Move 7 is some poo poo; never attach to the corner after that pincer, there's no joseki for it because the pincer stone is perfectly placed to hurt you. Most two space high pincer joseki involve you jumping out somehow. This is really good advice. You can attach but do it after you jump out. The attachment is then given up so you split the pincer and you get sente to counter-pincer.
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Dec 30, 2013 01:11
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sensual donkey punching posted:C3 isn't the start of any good result for black, true, but C5 is the start of several equal variations. Yeah, I misspoke when I said that, even though I was thinking of magic sword at the time. I meant attaching at the 3-3 with the intent of grabbing the corner, which is playable in most 3-4 pincer situations, but tough to pull off here.
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Dec 31, 2013 04:25
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So I finally have started playing Go against a real live human. Turns out my housemate (and fellow goon) plays. He's somewhere in the teens on the kyu scale, but I learned more from one 9x9 game with him than I did going through Interactive Way to Go 3 times.
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Dec 31, 2013 05:14
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So, I have decided to give you some reviews of the current Go-apps for android. Gogrinder is probably the best tsumego app around. + Very nice interface for problems. - Can't do anything else. - the input method for full boards is pretty bad. - You need to bring your own problems. - Costs 1$ WeGoIgo Lite usable multi purpose app. + Good interface for playing and reviewing. + Optional Gnugo opponent. + Support for Kogo's. - Tsumego mode is terrible. - Ad supported. There is a paid version without ads. ElyGo is pretty much a clone of WeGoIgo. + Added IGS support + Actually actively developed, and the developer is receptive about bugreports. - Costs 6€ KGS-Client + You can play and chat on KGS. - Lots of annoying limitations ( Can't make custom games, can't listen to audio-lectures ). - Input method is annoying. - Costs  Pachi + Strongest free computer player for android. ( The pc version is 2d KGS). + Pretty good interface - Eats your battery like crazy. I would recommend getting WeGoIgo Lite, Grogrinder, Pachi and maybe the KGS-Client.
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Jan 4, 2014 21:33
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oiseaux morts 1994 posted:You need to stop touching your opponent in the beginning! Moves like 7 and 13 in the opening are total waste of moves that should be used to enclose corners or take key side points. That's all you need to know for now, go and play 5-10 more games with this opening principle in mind. You're very good for a 29k, though. Under 15 posted:move 21, p3, is the first really questionable move, I think... with k4 there and thickness up top, white's reply at p5 was an absolute no-brainer. Playing a high approach would have forced him to make a choice, but the way it played out he got exactly what he wanted, a side territory you couldn't reduce. You got a large corner, but I don't think it's large enough to compensate. This was actually good advice, I've improved a lot since. Kheldragar posted:Svartvit, I'll play you on KGS later today if you're interested since I, too, suffer from "not playing enough" syndrom. I'm only around 22k, so I shouldn't be much of a challenge. I'll play you on OGS if you've got an account
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Jan 5, 2014 16:32
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I won an awesome game on Tygem this morning; it was essentialy a giant capture race of possibly 4 groups, later two, where the most important one had an extra liberty in ko. I ended up winning and capped 28 or so stones, but my opponent probably could've won this race if he just filled in the ko now that I think about it some more. At least, that's what I think without going back to the board which I should do later. Of course, the whole thing wouldn't have happened if he hadn't hosed up royally with reading earlier. (Okay, you're going to keep extending even though it's really REALLY useless here since it's 100% dead?) I also felt like I played the worst one yet when a 19k? player was automatched with me. It was fine for the first few moves, and then I kept seeing things like constant attaching etc. that makes me feel like I'm at 25k again, and I played like I was. Got frustrated and hosed up reading a few times too. He even double hane'd on a 3.3 invasion at one point.  e: No, the fight does not work out well for black if he plays the ko; I can just capture faster. AdorableStar fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Jan 9, 2014 |
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Jan 8, 2014 20:56
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I'm so excited to find this thread! I was introduced to Go about 3 weeks ago and I've been going crazy thinking about it every day since. I've created a profile on Pandanet and downloaded Panda Tetsuki on my iPhone, which uses IGS. I don't think there are any KGS iPhone apps, is that correct?
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Jan 9, 2014 00:42
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Drewski posted:I'm so excited to find this thread! I was introduced to Go about 3 weeks ago and I've been going crazy thinking about it every day since. I've created a profile on Pandanet and downloaded Panda Tetsuki on my iPhone, which uses IGS. I don't think there are any KGS iPhone apps, is that correct? But there is a Tygem iPhone app, I think. Which is the server people actually play on. While KGS is used mainly for chatting.
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Jan 9, 2014 01:34
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Don't say things like that Ton, you fool. KGS is where the majority of English speaking players Go. Tygem is not recommended for beginners. If you want correspondence games, go OGS, otherwise play KGS. You can check out all the fairy gambling servers with bad translation later.
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Jan 9, 2014 09:27
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If you want to lose your 100 games quickly, then I do reccomend Tygem wholeheartedly. Yeah, even if you register at 18k and don't get a lot of players who are actually 18k, it's still a learning experience. You'll get games fater than kgs too if you play on times when people in Asia are awake (Which I do.) I only have 3 wins and 10 losses and I feel that it's one of the best things I did since the people there don't give up a fight, won't hesitate to invade, won't hesitate to punish you severly for your mistakes, and will even sometimes play completely in your area even though it's endgame and they're already dead! (You still can't ignore it.)
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Jan 9, 2014 10:39
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I remember playing on tygem when I was like 15k and it was the first time I saw someone express disgust at my playing. They went like "do you even know how to play this game? what a waste of time..." It was an interesting experience.
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Jan 9, 2014 11:27
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Symbolic Butt posted:I remember playing on tygem when I was like 15k and it was the first time I saw someone express disgust at my playing. They went like "do you even know how to play this game? what a waste of time..." You mean you were able to get someone to speak to you in English? I haven't had anyone actually talk to me besides those pre-translated things you can say across different language clients. The only thing I have to worry about on Tygem is agreeing to games which someone has set a bit too long. Someone actually set the time to an hour on me and I didn't notice, and he proceeded to go afk for a good 30 minutes. When he came back, I was in a game on kgs and made HIM wait it out. Also, there shouldn't be any use of a score estimator by default, so I always have to retick that.
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Jan 9, 2014 11:29
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Symbolic Butt posted:I remember playing on tygem when I was like 15k and it was the first time I saw someone express disgust at my playing. They went like "do you even know how to play this game? what a waste of time..." People who say that are usually losing or butt hurt because you're taking away territory they assumed was theirs. It's generally a sign your game is going well in my experience.
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Jan 9, 2014 14:24
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Actually I'm remembering all wrong, it was on CyberOro (which is now called wbaduk I guess?) I don't think anyone ever talked to me when I played on tygem. edit:  THANKS OBAMA Symbolic Butt fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Jan 9, 2014 |
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Jan 9, 2014 15:18
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I just died in Gote, THANKS OBAMA
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Jan 9, 2014 16:29
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Xyven posted:I just died in Gote, THANKS OBAMA I thank Obama everytime I self-atari. 
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Jan 9, 2014 20:32
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Playing on Tygem is a horrible idea for a new player because of the way the rating system works. People complain about KGS's ranking system a lot but in my opinion it's far and away the best in the business. Having an accurate ranking system is in my eyes critical for newbies because you need to be matched against fellow bads, which Tygem just cannot do reliably. If you go on Tygem as a nublard you can expect out of ten finished games that seven of them will be complete sandbaggings, two effortless curbstomps and maybe one even game. On KGS the sandbagger problem is much, much less of an issue and it might wind up happening twice, by comparison. The reason why Tygem works like that is that you advance if you win ten of your last fifteen games at that rank as a kyu, or fourteen out of twenty as a dan. You can pick your own starting rank, from however low to 5d. So, if you're a 5k and are feeling skeptical about your skill and put that you're 8k, by the time you reach your actual rank you'll have dealt out a good twenty or so lovely, unbalanced games. If you put down 18k it turns into sandbag city. This is tremendously common on Tygem because sandbaggers tend not to play enough games to raise their rank much and new players do, since they either get better at the game or quit.
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Jan 11, 2014 19:53
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I thought playing on Tygem was beneficial to me; at least a bit. Sure, most of the time I play against people who know what they're doing way better than I do, but that just makes me learn from what they're doing right and how I just don't know how to respond to it. And then there's the entirely different style of play that I wasn't, and probably still am not, used to when I started playing there. I had one guy tell me that I did decently fighting enough for my level, and I guess that's thanks to Tygem? I'm 17k on kgs now as opposed to the 20k I was when I started, but I guess that's because there's not much to learn to improve at this level. Yeah, the rating system is terrible, but in my experience Tygem games are much more exciting than on kgs. 3-16 Win to loss ratio there. Just 84 more losses to go. 
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Jan 11, 2014 20:04
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IGS is kind of between tygem and KGS in how the ranking system is but it has one really stupid clause:quote:When the player does not making a greeting within one minute of the start of the game, it becomes a loss. This game does not become a rating game, but the winner is given 50 points and the loser is penalized 50 points.
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Jan 12, 2014 05:24
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Uncle Jam posted:IGS is kind of between tygem and KGS in how the ranking system is but it has one really stupid clause: What the hell? Of course it's pretty easy to just say "hi", but seriously?  Also, I have a question. What's the "go" definition of developing? I remmeber playing some third line moves near the star-points on the side, but I was told fourth line would be better because it means I'm able to develop easier. I thought developing was trying to get territory easier for yourself, and thus I played on the third line. Is it then making a moyo for yourself? Isn't the defintion of that a framework for territory?
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Jan 12, 2014 05:54
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Kheldragar posted:What the hell? Of course it's pretty easy to just say "hi", but seriously? When someone talks about developing the board, they usually mean playing in a way which grants you a better global position. You don't really "develop" territory. It depends on the game, but you were probably in a position where a 3rd line move was giving up too much potential for building either a wall or a moyo in exchange for a slightly better hold on the territory you were sketching out.
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Jan 12, 2014 07:57
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IGS also has a hilarious feature where if you use the Japanese client or turn on 'Japanese rank' on the phone app everyone's rank increases by 3 stones. I guess that's what happens on a pay to play server.Kheldragar posted:What the hell? Of course it's pretty easy to just say "hi", but seriously? I think first there is immediate development options. If black has a stone alone on the side of the board on either 3rd or 4th line, it doesn't matter much just in that state. But if white gets the next move in that area, it really matters which line the first move was on for black's choices of where to go. Generally being on the 4th line gives more choices but that also means its a more complex position. Second, if you play just third line the other player can easily seal you in to the side of the board. When mid-game rolls around you don't have any outs to connect back to your living groups so you don't have a lot of places to play on the board. One of the things I always try to do is keeping all areas of the board viable to put my stones down as deep into the game as I can manage. This ties in strongly with keeping all your groups connected vs having a bunch of small separate living groups. That said a lot of this can be very situational. One thing you can do is look at games of good players and see how their choice at the opening affects the outcome into mid-game. Just go through a bundle of them. I think just playing it out is harder at your level because your opponent will make a wrong move and not be representational of how it really works out.
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Jan 12, 2014 17:20
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Just take 'development' as a synonym for 'building'. You make fourth line moves to keep building your framework - when you seal it up into an efficient shape, then you can consider it developed. The most basic 'developed' shape is the shimari you make by playing a 3-4 stone and the opposing 3-5.
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Jan 12, 2014 19:12
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 Black to play As far as I* can tell, (b) leads to a capturing race ending in some sort of ko favoring Black. Is that correct? Is (b) worth playing? *I'm 7k, gotten mostly by playing nice-seeming shapes, without reading.  Is this what happens?
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Jan 13, 2014 02:58
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Looks like white can live by threatening to connect underneath. Here's the lines I've found http://eidogo.com/#Hl1EFSmh
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Jan 13, 2014 03:40
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| # ? May 12, 2024 22:38 |
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Hello friends, I am newly obsessed with Go and am reading and playing all I can. I just played a 15k bot on KGS and lost by 1.5 points after losing probably at least 20 points due to stupid moves in end game. Only a week ago I was destroyed by this bot. Feeling good! I've got 'the second book of go', which I am reading, and I've been watching some lectures on youtube and also looking at records of pro games just for fun, maybe I'm hoping to absorb some of it into my subconscious haha. Does everyone here play on KGS, or is there other sites?
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Jan 14, 2014 04:45
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