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Astro7x posted:Nintendo will always be behind in terms of technology because they won't eat the price of a console as badly as Sony and Microsoft are willing to. I don't think there's any reason why Nintendo wouldn't be able to, in principle, compete with Sony/MS on performance terms except that they decided not to, which, in my opinion, is because they feel they got burned on that strategy with the Gamecube, which was by far among the more powerful spectrum of its generation and still sold like poo poo.
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Jan 15, 2014 18:23
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Astro7x posted:Nintendo will always be behind in terms of technology because they won't eat the price of a console as badly as Sony and Microsoft are willing to. The PS4 and 'Bone are both sold for a very slight loss on parts + manufacturing, maybe even less of a loss than the Wii U was making at launch. Nintendo is behind on technology because they gambled on the gamepad and focused on low power draw and noise and it backfired.
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Jan 15, 2014 18:25
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Yeah, the thing is that the answer to a lot of the questions there is "The Tablet." It's the biggest albatross around the Wii U's neck and pretty much singlehandedly what you can point at for a lot of its failures, which is pretty staggering when you think about it. Even the lovely marketing problems would be lessened if it was obviously a new console as opposed to focusing on what looks like Wii paraphernalia. They gambled on tablet play being something that would be on-par with the Wii's motion controls and whoops.
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Jan 15, 2014 18:26
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Polo-Rican posted:What they really need to do is spend a good chunk of their Pokmon / 3DS profits and triple their number of software development teams. They need to get Mario Kart and Smash out the door as soon as they can. They need to release a trailer for the next Zelda. They shouldn't stop with Wind Waker - they should continue to pump out HD remakes of their greatest hits at a brisk pace. And they need to continue to do stuff like Dr Luigi and NES Remix - lots of cheap digital titles that bank on the nintendo name. This is what they need to do in general. If 1st party IP is all they're going to get then they need to push out many, many more games. Maybe they're worried about diluting their brands but it's really all they have right now. My only personal problem with this is that outside of the teams perpetually working on a Mario game and a Zelda game I don't think any of Nintendo's subdivisions are much good at level design lately. I wouldn't trust Intelligent Systems or HAL to make great games on their own in nearly any franchise anymore. The teams need to be expanded and split giving anyone with experience actual leadership roles for their section. It's worth the risk. The hardest parts of HD Gamecube ports are making new HUD / UI elements and testing. While they're appreciated by a small few, they don't really have to make minor changes everywhere. There is no reason why they couldn't be pumping these out or adding in a Gamecube virtual console section. On the Wii they acted like they knew emulators existed and were something of a direct competitor. The Wii U doesn't even seem to have all the same VC systems on its own shop, as if Nintendo stopped owning the rights to or something. They should act like the Dolphin emulator exists and fight to stay relevant in spite of it.
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Jan 15, 2014 18:37
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The best way to get third party support on their next console is make sure all the third parties still hanging on to the Wii U have to recreate the games they're currently working on from scratch for a brand new machine with completely different architecture, or just cancel the games completely. And Nintendo and it's second parties can cancel all of their current Wii U games in development. That'll work out great for everyone.
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Jan 15, 2014 18:40
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Heran Bago posted:The hardest parts of HD Gamecube ports are making new HUD / UI elements and testing. While they're appreciated by a small few, they don't really have to make minor changes everywhere. There is no reason why they couldn't be pumping these out or adding in a Gamecube virtual console section. On the Wii they acted like they knew emulators existed and were something of a direct competitor. The Wii U doesn't even seem to have all the same VC systems on its own shop, as if Nintendo stopped owning the rights to or something. They should act like the Dolphin emulator exists and fight to stay relevant in spite of it. There's also the matter of how the game looks if and when it gets transitioned to HD, which was why we got Wind Waker HD instead of Twilight Princess or Skyward Sword - they did a test with all three, and thanks to its simplistic artstyle, Wind Waker still looked good. As for eshop titles, it would certainly help if Nintendo worked on creating a universal emulator of their own which they could then use to load any game of a respective console from the eshop, rather than tying it into the size of each individual game. Not sure whether or not it would actually get them to put out more titles though.
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Jan 15, 2014 18:55
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Crowbear posted:Nintendo is behind on technology because they gambled on the gamepad and focused on low power draw and noise and it backfired. Nintendo at least is doing something right with their console design in terms of making reliable hardware that has never died on me. I have no idea if power draw is apart of that, but I've yet to own a Playstation and not have at least one die on me each generation.
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Jan 15, 2014 19:13
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I find myself warming more to the Wii U. I got a really nice trade in deal which let me get a PS4 but other than AC4 we barely use the thing. My buddy with an Xbox One has the same problem going on. Now both of us are thinking about a Wii U because the offscreen play would be good for the kids and at least the library is starting to shape up. I think I'm 1-2 more good titles away from a sure purchase. Between the house PC and the PS4 we're already covered for third party stuff so all I really care about is a system with a bunch of great Nintendo games.
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Jan 15, 2014 19:14
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The Gunslinger posted:I find myself warming more to the Wii U. I got a really nice trade in deal which let me get a PS4 but other than AC4 we barely use the thing. My buddy with an Xbox One has the same problem going on. Now both of us are thinking about a Wii U because the offscreen play would be good for the kids and at least the library is starting to shape up. I think I'm 1-2 more good titles away from a sure purchase. Between the house PC and the PS4 we're already covered for third party stuff so all I really care about is a system with a bunch of great Nintendo games. Toss yourself over at the other Wii U thread if you need to see the full selection, might help you find something you hadn't considered - OP hasn't been updated in a while, but goons will be more than willing to offer suggestions. I will say though, you and your buddy each having one of the consoles will make for interesting comparisons.
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Jan 15, 2014 19:17
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I bought a Wii U, but my friend has it for most of the time. You might be better off sharing one if it's just the exclusives you want to play.
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Jan 15, 2014 19:21
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Astro7x posted:Nintendo at least is doing something right with their console design in terms of making reliable hardware that has never died on me. I have no idea if power draw is apart of that, but I've yet to own a Playstation and not have at least one die on me each generation. Considering the Wii had a sizeable overheating problem, and the 3DS tended to scratch its own screens, I'm not sure Nintendo's reputation for "reliable hardware" is warranted.
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Jan 15, 2014 19:38
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Astro Nut posted:Toss yourself over at the other Wii U thread if you need to see the full selection, might help you find something you hadn't considered - OP hasn't been updated in a while, but goons will be more than willing to offer suggestions. I think I'm mainly waiting for a mainline Zelda and maybe that X game to come out. There is more than enough on there for the kids but I want to play some stuff too 
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Jan 15, 2014 19:55
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The Gunslinger posted:I think I'm mainly waiting for a mainline Zelda and maybe that X game to come out. There is more than enough on there for the kids but I want to play some stuff too See you in 2015 at the earliest if that is what you're waiting on.
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Jan 15, 2014 19:56
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Barudak posted:See you in 2015 at the earliest if that is what you're waiting on. Yeah that's fine, I'm in no rush to buy it I'm getting my Nintendo fix on the 3DS and it's doing the job for the moment. ALBW is fantastic.
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Jan 15, 2014 20:02
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The Gunslinger posted:I think I'm mainly waiting for a mainline Zelda Hyrule Warriors might be fun. I've always been very fond of the Dynasty Warriors games, mainly because I'm a huge Romance of the Three Kingdoms buff (read the book, watched three different TV adaptations, several movies, play every related game I can get my hands on...) and I love playing in that world. I'm not sure if I'm in love enough with Dynasty Warriors' actual mechanics to enjoy that gameplay in Zeldaverse, but if done right it could be a pretty cool game.
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Jan 15, 2014 20:03
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It was only a 4 year gap from Xbox to Xbox 360, and no one proclaimed the original xbox a failure. Fall 2016 seems more likely for a Wii U replacement than keeping it on life support until 2018. Also the graphic disparity is going to be a huge problem in the future if they keep playing catch up, after playing a Wii U at walmart, then going home and playing BF4 on the PS4 its like night and day.
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Jan 15, 2014 21:11
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The original Xbox was definitely a failure, it was a massive sunk cost just to establish a brand. Its only purpose was to set up the next system. It was nothing but a financial sinkhole. And because they're Microsoft, they can do that.
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Jan 15, 2014 21:20
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Quest For Glory II posted:The original Xbox was definitely a failure, it was a massive sunk cost just to establish a brand. Its only purpose was to set up the next system. It was nothing but a financial sinkhole. And because they're Microsoft, they can do that. Pretty much this... but nobody cares. 24 million XBoxes is greater than than the Gamecube's 21.74 million though, the Gamecube was an epic failure!
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Jan 15, 2014 21:50
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Astro7x posted:Pretty much this... but nobody cares. 24 million XBoxes is greater than than the Gamecube's 21.74 million though, the Gamecube was an epic failure! It did established a paid subscription online service and some basic expectations like a friends list that previous services lacked. I mean from a dollars perspective total failure but it did a lot to innovate the industry.
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Jan 15, 2014 21:51
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I think it's pretty well-acknowledged that ps2 dominated that generation and the other two couldn't really compete. I probably played marginally more xbox exclusives than gamecube exclusives but they had nothing on ps2.
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Jan 15, 2014 21:51
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Barudak posted:It did established a paid subscription online service and some basic expectations like a friends list that previous services lacked. Even then I think the 360 is really the one that made that take off. The X-Box was a step up from the Dreamcast but the 360 is really the system that made online console play take off and set the standard for that generation.
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Jan 15, 2014 21:53
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ImpAtom posted:Even then I think the 360 is really the one that made that take off. The X-Box was a step up from the Dreamcast but the 360 is really the system that made online console play take off and set the standard for that generation. Sure but things like built-in internal hard drive and system patches via online definitely were OG Xbox innovations that everyone followed up on. It definitely was in the mold of the Dreamcast and the 360 set a lot of standards as well but the OGX establish quite a bit on its own. Plus it basically had the Dreamcast 2 of libraries so its really hard for me to hate on that gigantic clunky piece of crap. Plan to save the WiiU #38; release a new version of Deathrow, the greatest sports game ever released on consoles.
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Jan 15, 2014 21:56
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Fame Douglas posted:Considering the Wii had a sizeable overheating problem, and the 3DS tended to scratch its own screens, I'm not sure Nintendo's reputation for "reliable hardware" is warranted. There's also the garbage shoulder buttons on the DS Lite that loved to fail. They haven't made really robust hardware for a really long time now. I'm not intending to be ageist, but when was the last time Nintendo hired a new lead designer/executive/anything? I haven't heard of a lot of brain drain outside of Gunpei Yokoi, but I never hear about NJ bringing in new blood, either.
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Jan 15, 2014 22:37
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Astro7x posted:Nintendo at least is doing something right with their console design in terms of making reliable hardware that has never died on me. I have no idea if power draw is apart of that, but I've yet to own a Playstation and not have at least one die on me each generation. On the contrary, my Wii was the first last gen system to die on me when my GPU overheated.
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Jan 16, 2014 00:03
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blackguy32 posted:On the contrary, my Wii was the first last gen system to die on me when my GPU overheated. Same here. It had white speckles all over the screen in certain games like Twilight Princess, and this happened in the first year I owned the system. The thing about the Wii was that each hardware revision was worse than the last. In Korea, they took out Gamecube backwards compatibility, the memory card slots, and even the controller slots despite Wii games supporting Gamecube controllers, but this model eventually became the standard around the world. After that there was the Wii Mini, which had no online support (the USB ethernet adapter might still work, but they removed a lot of the internet-based channels), and it only supported composite video. That would have been acceptable in the 80's, but even the SNES had RGB Component. 480p YCbCr Component doesn't look great on HDTVs, but composite looks dreadful on everything. Some LCD TVs try to use tons of noise reduction, but that makes it look like it's been put through a paint blob filter in photoshop. At least with the PS3 and 360, hardware revisions meant you got a smaller, quieter, more reliable, and more efficient console. The PS3 had some features removed, like PS2 backwards compatibility and Super Audio CD support, but it didn't actually affect how you played games, such as restricting which controllers you could use, the ability to go online, or to play the game at its actual resolution.
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Jan 16, 2014 00:28
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The N64 also had the flimsiest first-party controllers I've ever used. I went through about 6 of them during the console's lifespan, by the end all of our Goldeneye multiplayer games were played at half-speed and all of the shorter single-player speed challenges became impossible. The hinge on my DS also broke after a single drop, that was pretty lovely although it didn't make it un-useable.
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Jan 16, 2014 00:29
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Most of the "reliable hardware" rep is from the Game Boy iterations which were built like a loving tank. Everything else since then has been coasting on nostalgia--much like Nintendo as a whole.
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Jan 16, 2014 00:42
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A big flaming stink posted:Most of the "reliable hardware" rep is from the Game Boy iterations which were built like a loving tank. Everything else since then has been coasting on nostalgia--much like Nintendo as a whole. Yes, nostalgia http://www.gamespot.com/articles/xbox-360-failure-rate-237-ps3-10-wii-27-study/1100-6216691/  Isolated incidents mentioned in this thread aside, this is data from a warranty company that released info on consoles they serviced that broke.
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Jan 16, 2014 00:53
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quote:The most common types of problems seen with the PS3 and Xbox 360 were disc read errors and I think the article states that the Wii was also the least played out of all the consoles. So it isn't exactly the fairest comparison as to build quality.
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Jan 16, 2014 01:11
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blackguy32 posted:I think the article states that the Wii was also the least played out of all the consoles. So it isn't exactly the fairest comparison as to build quality. The vast majority of Wii failures were related to standby mode and WiiConnect24 so being "least played" actually made their most common hardware fault more likely to appear.
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Jan 16, 2014 02:15
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Jeffrey posted:I think it's pretty well-acknowledged that ps2 dominated that generation and the other two couldn't really compete. I probably played marginally more xbox exclusives than gamecube exclusives but they had nothing on ps2. I got bored with my ps2 quickly and traded it in for an xbox that had superior versions of every cross-platform game. I loved it. It may not have sold as well but you didn't feel like you were missing out on much unless you loved Japanese games. I still can't believe I chose PS4 over xbox this generation. That would've been unthinkable pre-E3.
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Jan 16, 2014 02:22
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leidend posted:I got bored with my ps2 quickly and traded it in for an xbox that had superior versions of every cross-platform game. I loved it. It may not have sold as well but you didn't feel like you were missing out on much unless you loved Japanese games. Somehow I was a meganerd with all access to all three that generation. I had a ps2, my sister had a gamecube, and my uncle bought me and each of my cousins an xbox for some reason. Xbox versions were definitely better looking but I liked the ps2 controller better and I did play a lot of weird japanese games and got the most use out of the ps2. They both had cool exclusives though, wish I could still play phantom dust.
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Jan 16, 2014 02:43
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Speculation: Maybe there was something to Nintendo announcing a new mobile 'effort'? http://www.siliconera.com/2014/01/1...28Siliconera%29 'Poktouch' Expect $15.99.
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Jan 16, 2014 03:51
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Nonsense posted:Speculation: Maybe there was something to Nintendo announcing a new mobile 'effort'? It'll be a repackaged Pokemon Amie. Like none of the actual game elements will be in it, just rubbin' and feedin' all the Pokes.
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Jan 16, 2014 04:26
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Viewtiful Jew posted:It'll be a repackaged Pokemon Amie. Like none of the actual game elements will be in it, just rubbin' and feedin' all the Pokes. God I hope not. Really, who would buy it? Anyone who would care about such a thing already has X/Y, so why bother? A mobile pokemon game would probably do extremely well though.
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Jan 16, 2014 06:26
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A big flaming stink posted:Everything else since then has been coasting on nostalgia--much like Nintendo as a whole. That's kind of a moronic thing to say when Nintendo has been a smash hit for generation after generation with kids.
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Jan 16, 2014 06:34
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abagofcheetos posted:I don't even know what they could possibly do that will make the Wii U-2 different than the Wii U. HELLO HELLO. I'm at a place called VERTIGO. Or to stay with the doom and gloom of the sales and this thread, maybe 'Sunday Bloody Sunday' would be more appropriate.
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Jan 16, 2014 06:50
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THE loving MOON posted:God I hope not. Really, who would buy it? Anyone who would care about such a thing already has X/Y, so why bother?
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Jan 16, 2014 07:02
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Papercut posted:The N64 also had the flimsiest first-party controllers I've ever used. I went through about 6 of them during the console's lifespan, by the end all of our Goldeneye multiplayer games were played at half-speed and all of the shorter single-player speed challenges became impossible. loving this. I always hear people say how great the N64 controller was and I don't get it. N64 was the only console I played growing up which had a pre-gaming debate/argument/fight over who would take which controller (discounting arguments over unofficial snes controllers like the Honey-Bee ones). The joystick would be hosed after only a couple dozen hours playing time! Hell I used to keep a blue control pad hidden away so my brothers couldn't use it and I would have an advantage. Gaming at a friends house? Better believe I was bringing my blue controller Im not getting stuck with your lovely second pad pal.
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Jan 16, 2014 11:16
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What the hell were you guys doing to your controllers? I played the poo poo out of mine and they were still fine 5 years later.
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Jan 16, 2014 11:24
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