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The Taint Reaper posted:Hopefully they'll replace whoever is running the American division with an American and have NOJ stay hands off. Because having everything revolve around NOJ is what's killing them. They had some a few days ago. I got Wonderful 101, Pikmin 3 and that Mario & Luigi RPG on the 3DS all for £20 combined... well it was actually a price glitch and not a genuine sale as the prices went back up 5 mins later. Shame my massive 8GB HD only has 100MB left
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Jan 17, 2014 15:21
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Fallom posted:They just put out a demo for an upcoming game that requires Streetpass hits in order to advance faster than a glacial pace. "They" being Square-Enix.
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Jan 17, 2014 15:21
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Louisgod posted:Nintendo being off by literally 70% tells me that they were either intentionally inflating forecasts to appease shareholders, honestly expected the WiiU to just sell despite its lackings, or they have no idea how their business is affected by competition and change. Either way, panic Nintendo is the best Nintendo, I think we'll see good things come from this. Wii U Ambassador Program: Owners of the Wii U prior to a given date are gifted the entire first party library of games released up until this point. Console price slashed to $199.
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Jan 17, 2014 15:34
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zenintrude posted:Wii U Ambassador Program: Owners of the Wii U prior to a given date are gifted the entire first party library of games released up until this point. Slashing the price further would just bleed them out more so if anything you'll probably see more bundles. An Ambassador program would be cool for current owners but does nothing for potential owners but hey, not like anybody would complain. Louisgod fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Jan 17, 2014 |
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Jan 17, 2014 15:40
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Iwata is saying he's not going to step down. I don't know if it's the same in Japan but that's usually what people say not long before they resign
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Jan 17, 2014 15:42
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Louisgod posted:Sometimes with Nintendo the best phrase to use is "hindsight is 30/20, foresight is 20/20". In retail forecasting our CFO gets mad at people who are off by 10% for a given month. That profit swing though holy poo poo, people are fired for much less.
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Jan 17, 2014 15:50
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zenintrude posted:Wii U Ambassador Program: Owners of the Wii U prior to a given date are gifted the entire first Console price slashed to $199.  The Taint Reaper posted:Hopefully they'll replace whoever is running the American division with an American and have NOJ stay hands off. Because having everything revolve around NOJ is what's killing them.
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Jan 17, 2014 15:56
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Louisgod posted:Either way, panic Nintendo is the best Nintendo, I think we'll see good things come from this. I dunno, seems like either spectrum can lead to bad times game quality wise. Panic Nintendo puts out rushed games that usually take the help of other development teams to get done on time. Fat and happy Nintendo puts out passion projects like Other M. Still, when they make a title with the mindset that it's probably going to be the last one in the series for a good, long while we get stuff like Awakening, Uprising and Melee.
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Jan 17, 2014 15:56
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Viewtiful Jew posted:I dunno, seems like either spectrum can lead to bad times game quality wise. Fat and happy Nintendo gets pretentious, comfortable and willfully ignorant. This lead to the 3DS's high price and lack of software. It also lead to the WiiU and where it's at now aaaaand the ludicrous forecasting issues they're now having to correct. Panic Nintendo pushes them to create compelling software that pushes hardware. 3DS price cut, Ambassador program, XL, Monster Hunter/Mario Kart/3D World Japanese trio, etc. I think it'll lead to more experimentation, forcing them to work outside the box and partner with 3rd parties to get poo poo done. If fat and happy Nintendo puts out projects like Other M then I hope they starve forever. e: I'll give you Awakening though, the team did go all out under the assumption that it'd be the last title. Louisgod fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Jan 17, 2014 |
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Jan 17, 2014 16:05
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At least the shareholders might get angry enough to remove top executives at Nintendo, who I can only assume are ancient Japanese men with the most heavily rose tinted glasses known to man.
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Jan 17, 2014 16:12
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Louisgod posted:Fat and happy Nintendo gets pretentious, comfortable and willfully ignorant. This lead to the 3DS's high price and lack of software. It also lead to the WiiU and where it's at now aaaaand the ludicrous forecasting issues they're now having to correct. Yeah I know, I'm not saying being in Fat and Happy mode is in any way a good thing for them. It led to the glut of later life DS and early Wii titles that sold massively well but might not hold up in retrospect and haven't been able to sell as well today like the New Super Mario titles. Then there were the last few Zelda titles not counting Link Between Worlds. While Zelda wasn't under the same constraints as Fire Emblem was, there was probably a sort of fire lit under them (even if you liked the last few installments of the series) to have the game sculpted in that particular way. I don't think the things they usually do in Panic Mode will ever satisfy the most vocal gamers and analysts out there. It probably won't lead to them giving their IPs to western devs or putting their games on mobile infused with F2P elements. It might lead to more developments that led to teams giving it their all for titles like Awakening.
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Jan 17, 2014 16:21
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Edmund Honda posted:Another price cut on the Wii U would be a hard sell on the corporate when they're already losing a decent amount (what's our best guess, $60-80?) per console. They even admitted in the reforecast pdf that they didn't plan a price cut at all this year, a second one would be painful. At $199 the Wii U would be a damaging money pit. Or it would be if it sold I'd say a $60 loss estimate is probably too low. We know that they needed more than 1 game sale to recoup when the system was going for $350, and then they cut the price $50 from there. I'd say something around $75-$100 is probably more likely.
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Jan 17, 2014 16:33
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thefncrow posted:I'd say a $60 loss estimate is probably too low. We know that they needed more than 1 game sale to recoup when the system was going for $350, and then they cut the price $50 from there. I'd say something around $75-$100 is probably more likely. Yeah the number has to be tremendous because based on those losses they're losing roughly $90 for every WiiU sold this year and that is including the 3DS and its assumed net positive income. Like all bad relationships I think Nintendo should sever.
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Jan 17, 2014 16:36
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I want to think Nintendo is panicking the gently caress out and going crazy over the low Wii U sales but another part of me is thinking they're going to heavily rely on Smash Bros as their plan B. I don't know what else they can do, other than sack some old dudes. Because seriously they're holding the company down hard. Also sack whoever it was thinking they could release another gimmick console that was a generation behind.
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Jan 17, 2014 16:40
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The REAL Goobusters posted:I want to think Nintendo is panicking the gently caress out and going crazy over the low Wii U sales but another part of me is thinking they're going to heavily rely on Smash Bros as their plan B. I don't know what else they can do, other than sack some old dudes. Because seriously they're holding the company down hard. Also sack whoever it was thinking they could release another gimmick console that was a generation behind. Iwata is so fired I'm not even sure what to think. I mean, yes, I know that while privately held one family has something like a 40% stake but even assuming they had a majority there is going to be an absolutely mindboggling share-holder revolt if he stays on with their approval. The real question is "who do they hire to replace him" and "what is the plan for Nintendo next"
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Jan 17, 2014 16:42
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The Kins posted:Masahiro Sakurai seems like an ideal place to start looking, seeing as he's both very intelligent and actually plays games from other consoles and countries, but he doesn't seem to have any aspirations towards management whatsoever. Sakurai's a likable and sharp guy, but I can't see the leap from his current role as an auteur game designer to 'executive bigwig'. He's definitely the kind of voice that would be valuable to Nintendo, since he seems to have his finger on the pulse of gaming as a whole, but I'd peg him as a successor to Miyamoto rather than to Iwata.
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Jan 17, 2014 16:43
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Louisgod posted:Panic Nintendo pushes them to create compelling software that pushes hardware. 3DS price cut, Ambassador program, XL, Monster Hunter/Mario Kart/3D World Japanese trio, etc. I think it'll lead to more experimentation, forcing them to work outside the box and partner with 3rd parties to get poo poo done. None of these things are revolutionary. -A Price Cut -Free games to existing owners to make up for the price cut. -New Hardware Design (not as relevant to a home console) -Games (Kart and Smash are coming!) What can they really do outside of these things, and will they really drive console sales? I don't think so. A drastic price cut is just going to cause them to lose more money.
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Jan 17, 2014 16:46
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Barudak posted:Iwata is so fired I'm not even sure what to think. I mean, yes, I know that while privately held one family has something like a 40% stake but even assuming they had a majority there is going to be an absolutely mindboggling share-holder revolt if he stays on with their approval. Not to put you on the spot here, but I would like to see some sourcing on why the shareholders should react one way or another. Couldn't the great majority of them be the same kind of conservative Japanese businessman that would say to keep the tradition and ride out the storm? Nintendo doesn't feel to me like the kind of company that attracts investors for reasons other than its predictableness.
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Jan 17, 2014 16:48
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Barudak posted:Iwata is so fired I'm not even sure what to think. I mean, yes, I know that while privately held one family has something like a 40% stake but even assuming they had a majority there is going to be an absolutely mindboggling share-holder revolt if he stays on with their approval. Yamauchi's family does not own anywhere close to 40%. They are the biggest single shareholder but they only own 10%. http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/stock/information/index.html
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Jan 17, 2014 16:50
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MrBims posted:Not to put you on the spot here, but I would like to see some sourcing on why the shareholders should react one way or another. Couldn't the great majority of them be the same kind of conservative Japanese businessman that would say to keep the tradition and ride out the storm? Nintendo doesn't feel to me like the kind of company that attracts investors for reasons other than its predictableness. Even if you're a conservative business Japanese man "riding this out" would mean you want to lose even more money. If you look at Nintendo's income for the last 3 years its been Loss, its-bitsy profit due to liquid capital conversion rates, Loss. Worse, Nintendo's forecasting is so totally hosed that they were off on their predictions by nearly a Billion USD and in the wrong direction. Nobody has confidence in a management like that. Crowbear posted:Yamauchi's family does not own anywhere close to 40%. They are the biggest single shareholder but they only own 10%. Oh he's so ridiculously fired.
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Jan 17, 2014 16:54
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Barudak posted:Oh he's so ridiculously fired. No, he'll just be pressured to quit and then get hit by a car. It's the Nintendo way.
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Jan 17, 2014 16:56
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Astro7x posted:None of these things are revolutionary. I think we agree but your post made it seem otherwise. My main point is now that Nintendo is working at a loss, they'll scramble to make their console as attractive as possible minus slashing the price again but they need to be intuitive about it. Releasing Wii Sports and Wii Fit basically as subscriptions wasn't smart.
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Jan 17, 2014 17:00
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Boiled Water posted:At least the shareholders might get angry enough to remove top executives at Nintendo, who I can only assume are ancient Japanese men with the most heavily rose tinted glasses known to man. Actually, Iwata has been playing the game of thrones over the years. There is this belief that Nintendo's board of directors are old and out of touch. However, Nintendo's board is younger than ever and come from all manner of backgrounds from bankers to railroad engineers. More importantly, there has been a significant changing of the guard over the years during Iwata's reign. In fact, the board of directors has been consolidated during the last few years. For example, the power of the senior managing directors is now divided among just Genyo Takeda and Shigeru Miyamoto instead of the six or so people that have historically made up this senior division of the board. Furthermore, he consolidated power back in Japan after Minoru Arakawa and Howard Lincoln left NoA. Their successors were also picked by Iwata and owe their success to him. Tatsumi Kimishima has had a meteroic rise to managing director after a lame duck term as NoA president. Some people believe Kimishima is to be to Iwata what Iwata was to Yamauchi. Kimishima's successor, Reggie, has no where near the director level powers that Arakawa and Lincoln had. Cronyism or not, a lot of powerful people in Nintendo owe their allegiance to him. The wild card in this is where Hiroshi Yamuchi's shares have gone after his death. Yamuchi protected Iwata due to his belief in him and the strength of Yamuchi's small yet historically significant shares. Now, these shares and their protection could go away. For example, they could end up in Arakawa's possession as he married Yamuchi's daughter. Allegedly, Arakawa did not leave on good terms as it was believed he was passed over as CEO in favor of Iwata. However, Arakawa is semi-retired after a stint at Tetris Online and may not want to enter back into the high stakes console industry if this scenario was true. Nintendo could also initiate a stock buyback to help Yamauchi's recipients avoid an inheritance tax. Really exciting times ahead for the company. I'll post more on my thoughts on Nintendo's situation after they release more information on the 26th. Sunning fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Jan 17, 2014 |
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Jan 17, 2014 17:04
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Sunning posted:Really exciting times ahead for the company. I'll post more on my thoughts on Nintendo's situation after they release more information on the 26th. Nice to see you return here, especially since it's nice to see someone with perspective on how different it is for Japanese companies compared to American companies.
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Jan 17, 2014 17:07
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Sunning posted:A song of Failure and Losses
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Jan 17, 2014 17:17
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I still can't believe they gave the Zelda license to the Dynasty Warriors guys rather than Platinum. I know they're both very niche developers, but the last time Platinum was given an existing IP, they managed to do very well with it.
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Jan 17, 2014 17:57
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That loving Sned posted:I still can't believe they gave the Zelda license to the Dynasty Warriors guys rather than Platinum. I know they're both very niche developers, but the last time Platinum was given an existing IP, they managed to do very well with it. This is it. This is the time to flood Nintendo's email inboxes about Kamiya's obvious desire to work on a Star Fox game.
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Jan 17, 2014 18:00
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That loving Sned posted:I still can't believe they gave the Zelda license to the Dynasty Warriors guys rather than Platinum.
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Jan 17, 2014 18:26
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Quest For Glory II posted:I'm also surprised that they didn't give one of their most important franchises to a developer that just released a game that only 50,000 people bought. RULES OF HYRUUUUULE But yeah, Wonderful 101 arrived a year late and sold like hot crap so its no surprise Nintendo isn't beating down the door to fund more titles. Plus Platinum still has to crank out Bayonetta 2 which at its current rate will be the last game released on the system and sell one copy.
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Jan 17, 2014 18:29
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Bobnumerotres posted:This is it. This is the time to flood Nintendo's email inboxes about Kamiya's obvious desire to work on a Star Fox game. Slap a Star Fox skin and some fighter ship levels onto a Vanquish sequel.
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Jan 17, 2014 18:40
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ImpAtom posted:Yeah, I'm sure people would rush out to buy Nintendo's new console after they unceremoniously killed their last one and rushed a new one to the market. That's a fantastic way to build consumer confidence. Even if the Wii U isn't selling, you don't get 'do-overs' when it comes to $300 pieces of electronics. That's a reasonable assumption, but Apple obsoletes $500+ devices every year, so I wonder how true it is. I'd be interested in a backwards-compatible Wii U hardware update that could play upcoming cross-platform games.
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Jan 17, 2014 18:41
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Toady posted:That's a reasonable assumption, but Apple obsoletes $500+ devices every year, so I wonder how true it is. I'd be interested in a backwards-compatible Wii U hardware update that could play upcoming cross-platform games. Does the Wii U have an extension port or anything like that that the SNES/etc. older systems had? They can pull a Sega and sell a $300 BD-ROM player/drive for next gen games to hook up to it. 
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Jan 17, 2014 18:46
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If they release another console down the road it HAS to have an x86 architecture or the like. Nintendo couldn't be oblivious to how popular this is with third parties, and how that sort of hardware makes life easier for everyone. This might make backwards compatibility difficult, but I think figuring out how to make that transition smoothly is better than constantly missing out on great third party titles because of hardware limitations.
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Jan 17, 2014 18:55
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Yeah, Nintendo doesn't really have much in line it can do at this moment- what it needs is a real, genuine console seller since apparently Mario can't do it anymore. That is pretty much Zelda, Smash, or Kart and the first on that list probably can't be making too many promises. I mentioned it earlier in the thread, but when Kart hits, a massive marketing push for Smash followed by a release date somewhere about three months off from it would be ideal for shoving consoles into homes. People would see Mario Kart 8, see all the buzz around SSB Wii U and the fact that it won't be long before it's in their hands, and maybe some of them would go "Hm, maybe now is the time." Would it provide a sustainable sales increase... maybe? But it would, at least, create a large sales spike that would go a long way to helping out any other game that comes out for the console have a shot at making it into homes- especially games like Mario that apparently cannot move consoles but will sell if the consoles are already in place. It would leave Smash's estimated Holiday 2014 slot open and Nintendo would have to bust rear end to get something to shove in there but Nintendo needs to really act now instead of hoping that they can make any kind of headway next Christmas when the PS4 and XBOne have stabilized. Zelda will hopefully have some kind of showing this year besides Hyrule Warriors, even if it's just some kind of announcement for a 2015 release window. It's really the best scenario we can hope for until Nintendo hits the last resort button and gives Pokemon to Capcom to make Pokemon Hunter or something. As for Iwata, he might not be fired, but he's probably under the guillotine and if 2014 ends anywhere near 'not well' he might want to start looking in the want ads. Of course, at this point I see 2014 as probably defaulting to 'terrible' unless the miracle happens, so he at least has a twelve month head start to find work.
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Jan 17, 2014 18:57
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Neo Rasa posted:Does the Wii U have an extension port or anything like that that the SNES/etc. older systems had? They can pull a Sega and sell a $300 BD-ROM player/drive for next gen games to hook up to it. Please, Nintendo, do not pull a Sega.
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Jan 17, 2014 19:00
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Toady posted:Please, Nintendo, do not pull a Sega. You're not excited for Luigi: The Brother where a gun-toting Luigi collects images of the virgin mary and pasta to restore his health while rolling around guns-a-blazing?
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Jan 17, 2014 19:02
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Toady posted:That's a reasonable assumption, but Apple obsoletes $500+ devices every year Consoles are not smartphones, and people do not treat them as analogous.
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Jan 17, 2014 19:05
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Crackbone posted:Consoles are not smartphones, and people do not treat them as analogous. Plus most people get them through contractual easement so that the outlay upfront is much smaller than the cost of the device. Which I believe Microsoft has already done and Sony is working on. As for Nintendo... friend codes are gone at least?
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Jan 17, 2014 19:07
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Toady posted:That's a reasonable assumption, but Apple obsoletes $500+ devices every year, so I wonder how true it is. I'd be interested in a backwards-compatible Wii U hardware update that could play upcoming cross-platform games. Apple releases upgrades to their successful and still-supported machines. It's pretty different. People don't worry about Apple devices being upgraded because they're successful (and most Apps will run on a wide variety of Apple devices as opposed to "you have to buy this new thing to use anything that comes out!") And you can't just make a system Backwards Compatible. It's expensive and costly especially if you go to a different architecture. That is part of the reason why the PS4 and X-Box One are not. The Wii U is backwards compatible because it basically has a Wii inside of it. For a Wii U successor to be backwards compatible they'd probably have to add a lot to the cost. (And that is ignoring the whole Gamepad thing.) If Sony and Microsoft are not able to make backwards compatibility for PS3/360 games cost effective, Nintendo sure as gently caress isn't. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Jan 17, 2014 |
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Jan 17, 2014 19:07
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Toady posted:Please, Nintendo, do not pull a Sega. The absolute worst thing that could come of that is that we're playing Metroid Prime Trilogy with a move controller on PS4 in 2015. I'm not saying they should, I'm actually really interested to see what Nintendo's inevitable next console and (later on) handheld will be like, but personally it wouldn't make a difference to me either way.
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Jan 17, 2014 19:08
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