|
Zoness posted:From a singles perspective I'd argue for HP Fighting over HP Ice - Yeah overall I agree with HP Fight over Ice if you want to go the HP route but part of me can't ignore that OHKO Gliscor through subs  .
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 07:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 15:42 |
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:HP does not suddenly throw any pokemon ever from "Strong But Finely Balanced" into "Overpowered". And I don't know if you've noticed but most pokemon don't really have limited movesets. Between Egg Moves and Move Tutors and TM/HMs almost every pokemon has access to enough moves to get at least a decent amount of coverage. For those 'good' pokemon HP is barely a buff. The 'bad' pokemon are ones who either have bad stats or don't have the move pools to do much even after all that. HP helps them a pretty decent amount. It's not that huge if a balancing problem. You're not really addressing my point about it being bad from a balance perspective at all. I never said HP made any pokemon broken, I said the move itself was inherently dumb and it is. It gives pokemon access to coverage they normally wouldn't have that lets them counter stuff that should do well against them for no reason. Want an example? Kingdra normally doesn't get any grass moves, so a rain team using him can't rely on him to handle Gastrodon due to its typing and ability. Unless that Kingdra happens to have HP grass; then it can easily kill Gastrodon. Kingdra normally doesn't get any grass moves, but its acess to HP lets it knock out a pokemon that would otherwise wall it. Its stupid since its movepool is clearly designed to not give it that kind of access, but it gets it anyways due to HP. Again, I never said it was a HUGE balancing problem, but it is something I would consider broken and it looks like Gamefreak isn't happy with it either after the changes that came to it this gen. In addition to the base power change, Gamefreak didn't make fairy a HP type. To me that suggests the move is one that could easily be rebalanced again. Since breeding for HP requires specific IVs and is also a complete pain in the rear end, personally I'm just gonna ignore it since it could be changed again and then I'll have suboptimal IVs for no reason. VVV Now you're just being pedantic. Its possible for something to be broken while also not being common. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 08:17 on Jan 19, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 07:50
|
|
|
Internet Kraken posted:You're not really addressing my point about it being bad from a balance perspective at all. I never said HP made any pokemon broken, I said the move itself was inherently dumb and it is. It gives pokemon access to coverage they normally wouldn't have that lets them counter stuff that should do well against them for no reason. Want an example? Kingdra normally doesn't get any grass moves, so a rain team using him can't rely on him to handle Gastrodon due to its typing and ability. Unless that Kingdra happens to have HP grass; then it can easily kill Gastrodon. Kingdra normally doesn't get any grass moves, but its acess to HP lets it knock out a pokemon that would otherwise wall it. Its stupid since its movepool is clearly designed to not give it that kind of access, but it gets it anyways due to HP. Yeah that's a lot of words to say "Okay it doesn't cause real balance issues but SOME pokemon benefit from!" Like it's no different than any other crazy move tutor or TM or Egg move man. Like it doesn't disrupt a lot and honestly even when a pokemon benefits from having it it isn't some huge game changer. Like it's either a balancing problem worth getting worked up about or it's not really a problem. Like, even with the new coverage you're still giving up another move for HP. Like the Kingdra example, you'll probably give up Dragon Pulse or Surf which then FUCKS your ability to do lasting damage since your other moves are probably Hydro Miss and Draco Meteor OR you trade one of THOSE 2 away and suddenly you're without your wall breaking moves so it's a definite balanced trade off. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 08:14 on Jan 19, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 08:06
|
|
|
I also don't like Hidden Power, because it just feels lazy. If I didn't know any better I would say it was some dumb Smogon CAP move with no heart behind it. It also reminds me of when kids are pretending to be superheroes and keep making up powers to win. "Well my hero is a ground/water type so your electric attacks are useless and there's nothing you have to hurt him  ""Oh yeah well my water superhero has a grass attack and now yours is dead ""But that doesn't make sense ...  "
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 08:31
|
|
|
Goddammit Nintendo, get your poo poo together and release Pokebank already. I just want to pet my stupid bird. Soon 
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 08:36
|
|
|
I'd be fine with removing Hidden Power if they finally started giving Special Attackers of most types more moves. There are a lot of pokemon, especially Electric, Grass, Ice, Fire and Dark types who get gently caress all for special moves outside of that type. On the physical side you have tons of poo poo like Earthquake, Stone Edge, Aqua Tail, the elemental punches and fangs that go to anything with a pulse. If Earth Power, Power Gem, and the various 60 bp basic elemental moves had anywhere near the distribution the physical ones did Hidden Power would be a quirky footnote. The amount of random moves that Dragon types, Water types, Normal types, Psychic types and Pokemon who look remotely like dragons get is stupid. Why do all Psychic types have easy access to Grass moves and not vice versa? Ditto Water types and Ice moves. Zore fucked around with this message at 08:42 on Jan 19, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 08:39
|
|
|
Ratspeaker posted:Goddammit Nintendo, get your poo poo together and release Pokebank already. I just want to pet my stupid bird.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 08:40
|
|
|
Zore posted:Why do all Psychic types have easy access to Grass moves and not vice versa? Ditto Water types and Ice moves. Psychic is kind of a poo poo attacking type unless you get STAB on it so it's probably fine that grass types don't get Psychic type moves, they're not missing anything anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 09:08
|
|
|
Zoness posted:Psychic is kind of a poo poo attacking type unless you get STAB on it so it's probably fine that grass types don't get Psychic type moves, they're not missing anything anyway. Besides Poison coverage but more than a few Grass types have a secondary type that covers poison defensively. So basically Psychic as always is kind of a garbage attack type for everyone.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 09:11
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:Besides Poison coverage but more than a few Grass types have a secondary type that covers poison defensively. So basically Psychic as always is kind of a garbage attack type for everyone. ZenMasterBullshit posted:Yeah overall I agree with HP Fight over Ice if you want to go the HP route but part of me can't ignore that OHKO Gliscor through subs RE: Hidden Power talk I feel like the nerf to 60 BP, but consistently, is the best thing they could have done. 70 was just too much for an any-type move, but also way too difficult to get if you weren't absurd or on sims. Like, if it was still 70, it'd be a bit too much. (Now we just need to wait four gens for them to finally make HP Fairy. Like the X-Special Defense that took until Gen 4.) ZenMasterBullshit posted:Psystrike/Psyshock aside most of the time I've put STAB psychic moves on pokes it's almost always a decision made with the thought "Well...I guess it's the least terrible option for a fourth move". Looking at you Gardevior! girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 09:22 on Jan 19, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 09:19
|
|
|
The Leper Colon V posted:Unless you get STAB from it and access to Psystrike/Psyshock. Psystrike/Psyshock aside most of the time I've put STAB psychic moves on pokes it's almost always a decision made with the thought "Well...I guess it's the least terrible option for a fourth move". Looking at you Gardevior! SPEAKING OF THE NERF TO HP: Are there any good Special focused attackers that get Technician? Because if not this is a true travesty. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Jan 19, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 09:21
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:Psystrike/Psyshock aside most of the time I've put STAB psychic moves on pokes it's almost always a decision made with the thought "Well...I guess it's the least terrible option for a fourth move". Looking at you Gardevior! I don't even run a Psychic STAB on Latios. Surf is way more useful for the 2HKO on Heatran. Psyshock is nice for Blissey but that's what Lucario is for anyway, setting up on Blissey barring Thunder Wave (which is scoutable with Heatran or Landorus-T). ZenMasterBullshit posted:Psystrike/Psyshock aside most of the time I've put STAB psychic moves on pokes it's almost always a decision made with the thought "Well...I guess it's the least terrible option for a fourth move". Looking at you Gardevior! Roserade 
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 09:23
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:
Roserade and comedy Persian.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 09:26
|
|
|
Zoness posted:Roserade HEHEHEHE Awww poo poo. Pokebank please get here. I need my Roserade to breed a new generation of Masked Beauty Nightshade. Oh god what do I even run on it? HP Ice? Ground?
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 09:27
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:Besides Poison coverage but more than a few Grass types have a secondary type that covers poison defensively. So basically Psychic as always is kind of a garbage attack type for everyone. Psychic is still paying for the terror that it was in Gen 1.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 09:28
|
|
|
Meat Recital posted:Psychic is still paying for the terror that it was in Gen 1.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 09:30
|
|
|
The Leper Colon V posted:Psychic can get in the "needs a buff" line behind Ice, Grass, and Rock (defensively). Pursuit, Knock Off, and U-turn weakness make Psychic a pretty wretched typing for singles play. Grass is actually not that bad, looking at Venusaur, Ludicolo, Amoonguss, Ferrothorn, and Tangrowth. It has some awful weaknesses but some really nice resistances too (for starters, walling Rotom-W's moveset completely is nice). On top of that Grass types are immune to Spore and Leech Seed. Rock is great in Ubers (Arceus-Rock best Ho-oh counter) and pretty poo poo everywhere else. ZenMasterBullshit posted:HEHEHEHE Awww poo poo. Pokebank please get here. I need my Roserade to breed a new generation of Masked Beauty Nightshade. Oh god what do I even run on it? HP Ice? Ground? Ice and Ground are the main types, yeah. On top of that Roserade also learns Weather Ball which lets you do give it Hilarious coverage. Zoness fucked around with this message at 09:45 on Jan 19, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 09:42
|
|
|
Zoness posted:Ice and Ground are the main types, yeah. Wait, why ice? I'd think you'd want ground or fire so it has something to do about steel types.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 09:49
|
|
|
Zoness posted:looking at Venusaur, Ludicolo, Amoonguss, Ferrothorn, and Tangrowth. It has some awful weaknesses but some really nice resistances too (for starters, walling Rotom-W's moveset completely is nice). On top of that Grass types are immune to Spore and Leech Seed. Rock is great in Ubers (Arceus-Rock best Ho-oh counter) and pretty poo poo everywhere else. There are grass Pokemon who are good, but that doesn't mean Grass is good.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 09:49
|
|
|
LAY-ZX posted:Wait, why ice? I'd think you'd want ground or fire so it has something to do about steel types. Ice has better overall coverage, Ground gets you specific weakness cover.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 10:12
|
|
|
drat shame they buffed Giga Drain out of Technician range.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 11:13
|
|
|
nippon nifties posted:I also don't like Hidden Power, because it just feels lazy. If I didn't know any better I would say it was some dumb Smogon CAP move with no heart behind it. Well Galvantula already gets Energy Ball so 
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 11:35
|
|
|
dis astranagant posted:drat shame they buffed Giga Drain out of Technician range.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 11:39
|
|
|
The reason they didn't make it possible for Hidden Power to be Fairy, I would guess, is that they would have to have done something about Pokemon imported from previous generations through Bank. GF hates making changes that break "continuity", in the sense that they don't want to change anything that makes a Pokemon different when it arrives in a new game. Of course they're happy enough to monkey around with moves, changing power levels/accuracy levels/whatever, but I guess they see a Pokemon's HP type as being intrinsic to the Pokemon and therefore something they don't want to change. There are things they could have done to add HP Fairy and leave imported mons with the same HP type. The simplest way would have been just to code two different routines for determining HP type, and use one or the other depending upon which game a mon originated in. However given that they didn't do this in this gen, the generation Fairy was introduced, the likelihood that they will do it as an incidental change in a later generation doesn't seem strong.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 13:20
|
|
|
Hammerite posted:There are things they could have done to add HP Fairy and leave imported mons with the same HP type. The simplest way would have been just to code two different routines for determining HP type, and use one or the other depending upon which game a mon originated in. However given that they didn't do this in this gen, the generation Fairy was introduced, the likelihood that they will do it as an incidental change in a later generation doesn't seem strong.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 13:25
|
|
|
Is an Adamant Scolipede any good? I finally bred a perfect one (minus Sp. A) only to find out that the recommended nature is Jolly. Time to start over, or does Jolly Scolipede not outspeed anything special?
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 15:54
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:SPEAKING OF THE NERF TO HP: Are there any good Special focused attackers that get Technician? Because if not this is a true travesty. Roserade and Mr. Mime. Roserade gets Magical Leaf (equal in power to Energy Ball), Weather Ball (only boosted when no weather is active), Round, and Swift; Mr. Mime gets Shock Wave (only via gen 3 TM, however, equal in power to Thunderbolt), Charge Beam (50 base power), Icy Wind (55 base power, but only via gen 5 move tutor), and Round. They don't get as many fun options as the physical Technicians, but both also have a good set of utility moves as well.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 16:07
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:HEHEHEHE Awww poo poo. Pokebank please get here. I need my Roserade to breed a new generation of Masked Beauty Nightshade. Oh god what do I even run on it? HP Ice? Ground? I feel like ground is the best option. I have a Life Orb technician Roserade on one of my teams and it's great when they think they can just swap into a Heatran, Lucario, or Chandelure or something to beat it. Most of the things you'd try to hit hardest with HP Ice take at least neutral damage from Roserade's stabs.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 16:13
|
|
|
I bred a bunch of Feebas and gave them Prism Scales to hold because I figured that would be a fairly easy way to get trades on the GTS, just put them up and wait for a trade to happen. But it doesn't really seem to be as successful as just putting up other bank stuff. I left one up there overnight asking for Gliscor and nobody bit. Then this afternoon I tried leaving a Meowth up asking for Milotic, and got a trade within an hour or two. I guess GTS users tend to search for Milotic but not for Feebas.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 16:27
|
|
|
Hammerite posted:I bred a bunch of Feebas and gave them Prism Scales to hold because I figured that would be a fairly easy way to get trades on the GTS, just put them up and wait for a trade to happen. But it doesn't really seem to be as successful as just putting up other bank stuff. I left one up there overnight asking for Gliscor and nobody bit. Then this afternoon I tried leaving a Meowth up asking for Milotic, and got a trade within an hour or two. They don't want to have to get the trade-evo item and do the trade themselves. Easier to just pick up an already-evolved 'Mon. GTS hivemind behaves certain ways, and you just have to adjust your trading to deal with that! Doing a lot of trading, it's interesting to see what people tend to go for. Kricketot and Castform are still my MVPs. I have no idea why the former is in such high demand. Finally hit a point where the stuff I'm going for requires other things, but if you want to get ahold of some poo poo, shoot for Kricketot and prosper. What's the easiest way to get Prism Scales, by the way? Got ahold of a Feebas myself a few days ago and I haven't done anything with 'em yet.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 16:33
|
|
|
ChibiSoma posted:They don't want to have to get the trade-evo item and do the trade themselves. Easier to just pick up an already-evolved 'Mon. GTS hivemind behaves certain ways, and you just have to adjust your trading to deal with that! You can get one every few days in that town with the waterfalls on the east side of the map. It turns up in a puddle to the north of the guy who sells fresh water.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 16:36
|
|
|
Hammerite posted:You can get one every few days in that town with the waterfalls on the east side of the map. It turns up in a puddle to the north of the guy who sells fresh water. Alternatively, you can level up a party of level 100 Pickup Diggersby (or anything else with Pickup), and cry whenever you get a Prism Scale instead of Leftovers.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 16:46
|
|
|
Hammerite posted:You can get one every few days in that town with the waterfalls on the east side of the map. It turns up in a puddle to the north of the guy who sells fresh water. Which raises all sorts of of questions as to where that scale comes from, the source of his Fresh Water supply, and what he does with his unsold wares. Prankster Meowtic has severe 4MSS. Reflect and Light Screen seem like a no-brainer, and I love Quick Guard for messing with Gale Wings, and Thunder Wave is a great move; then there's Swagger+Safeguard to help out your teammate, or Charm if you must, but I really feel it should carry some sort of damaging move as a last-ditch effort. Or maybe it isn't worth it? I'm talking about Doubles here.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 16:47
|
|
|
PumpkinBat posted:Prankster Meowtic has severe 4MSS. Reflect and Light Screen seem like a no-brainer, and I love Quick Guard for messing with Gale Wings, and Thunder Wave is a great move; then there's Swagger+Safeguard to help out your teammate, or Charm if you must, but I really feel it should carry some sort of damaging move as a last-ditch effort. Don't forget Fake Out. Prankster Meowstic is definitely worth it on a Doubles team. Most people ignore it when they see it since it rarely has a decent direct damage move, which can royally screw them over depending on what moveset Meowstic is running. It also helps that few people bring something capable of OHKOing Meowstic with the right defense investment - the only ones that come to mind immediately are Tyranitar and Yanmega with a Life Orb, the former usually not using a Life Orb and the latter being a plain rarity (though I say this while using Yanmega myself). I have seen people run pure-support Meowstics with no attacking moves at all, with mixed results; I personally do not recommend this unless you're running a stall team. It's totally possible for Meowstic to get by with three support moves and one attacking move, but you'll have to give some serious forethought to what moves they should be. How Meowstic will support your team while crippling the opposing team should always be your main focus; the direct offensive option should be more of an afterthought. SL the Pyro fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Jan 19, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 17:35
|
|
|
Requesting some help to fix my 6v6 team:code:Any ideas?
Waterfall of Salt fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Jan 19, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 17:40
|
|
|
Goodpart posted:I've got Archens if you'd like one. Also quoting for rad model Thanks, but I'm one of those sentimental losers who wants to pet the exact same imaginary bird that carried my rear end through hundreds of rounds at the PWT. I feel like I owe him.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 18:04
|
|
|
Thanks for the recommendation to run ice fang over dragon claw on m-aerodactyl. I'm not sure why I didn't do it in the first place since Garchomp is so common, but it works really well against him. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/xybattlespotdoubles-79095607
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 18:29
|
|
|
The recent discussion has me thinking about typical offensive coverage (for decent moves) by Pokemon type. This is just my impression and probably not perfect. Normal: Normal, Fire, Electric, Ice, Fighting, Ground, Dark, Fairy(?) Fire: Normal, Fire, Grass Water: Water, Ice, Dragon(?) Electric: Normal, Electric Grass: Grass, Poison, Fairy(?) Ice: Ice, Rock(?) Fighting: Normal, Fire, Electric, Ice, Fighting, Rock(?), Dark Poison: Poison, Psychic(?), Dark Ground: Normal, Ground, Rock, Steel Flying: Normal, Fighting(?), Flying Psychic: Electric, Grass, Psychic, Ghost, Dark, Fairy Bug: Normal, Fighting, Poison, Bug, Dark(?) Rock: Normal, Fighting(?), Ground, Rock, Steel Ghost: Fire, Poison(?), Psychic, Ghost, Dark, Fairy Dragon: Normal, Fire, Water, Electric, Ice, Ground, Flying, Rock, Dragon, Steel Dark: Normal, Fighting, Psychic(?), Ghost, Dark, Fairy Steel: Normal, Electric, Fighting(?), Ground, Rock, Steel Fairy: Grass(?), Psychic(?), Ghost(?), Fairy It seems that certain types really get a lot more access to type coverage than others. It really seems there is a lot of redundancy though, as well. Feel free to amend this list.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 20:35
|
|
|
I just defeated N and Ghetsis in Pokemon White. I didn't know how I would be introduced to the postgame, but I certainly didn't expect Looker to show up disguised as the Mom, then ramble about Team Plasma and give me a Super Rod. That guy is just the best.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 20:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 15:42 |
|
|
nib posted:^^^ Added you (I could use the safari) in case you'd need any help still: 3067-6082-2425 Could also use ore friends for safaris and such if anyone else is feeling generous. Filling out the Pokedex in the newer gens is so brutal, holy poo poo.  Jeabus Mahogany posted:I think that's when you're offered the choice between a Jaw fossil and a Sail fossil, the only time you can get either of those. You might just have to trade for them if you really want them. You can find either on the GTS for fairly common trades. I either got mine by trading something like a haunter, or it came from wonder trades. If people are in need of either I could always just breed up a batch and trade them out to those in need. Meat Recital posted:Psychic is still paying for the terror that it was in Gen 1. Alakazam was like a cross between The Flash and a hateful Professor X. Imagine my surprise when I picked up platinum, caught the first Abra I saw and then found that Kadabra/Alakazam weren't like that anymore. Evil Fluffy fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Jan 19, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2014 20:57
|
|
