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Discendo Vox posted:When we try to communicate ideas, the way we communicate them influences how they are received. Yet there remains an important distinction between the efficacy of communication, and the content of the message. It is all under the umbrella of rhetoric, but we should not unnecessarily conflate the two.
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Jan 20, 2014 19:54
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PUGGERNAUT posted:So Facebook now has "trending topics" and I saw something about Wendy Davis being caught in a ~web of lies~. (Apparently she got divorced at 21 instead of 19, OH MY GOD ALERT THE MEDIA) Of course, if you're a man you can divorce each wife when she turns 40 and remarry with a series of younger women, and conservatives like him don't give a poo poo. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Jan 20, 2014 |
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Jan 20, 2014 20:01
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I Am The Scum posted:Yet there remains an important distinction between the efficacy of communication, and the content of the message. It is all under the umbrella of rhetoric, but we should not unnecessarily conflate the two. I totally agree, that conflation can be really bad; I just don't want the efficacy stuff to get neglected. It's always worth remembering that the content in this thread is just about the worst articulation of these policy arguments, so here, at least, the efficacy/style/tone is a major part of what's worth discussing/relentlessly mocking.
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Jan 20, 2014 20:07
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Discendo Vox posted:I totally agree, that conflation can be really bad; I just don't want the efficacy stuff to get neglected. It's always worth remembering that the content in this thread is just about the worst articulation of these policy arguments, so here, at least, the efficacy/style/tone is a major part of what's worth discussing/relentlessly mocking. No, it's purely the ideas.
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Jan 20, 2014 20:19
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Discendo Vox posted:I totally agree, that conflation can be really bad; I just don't want the efficacy stuff to get neglected. It's always worth remembering that the content in this thread is just about the worst articulation of these policy arguments, so here, at least, the efficacy/style/tone is a major part of what's worth discussing/relentlessly mocking. You can use as many fancy words as you like, the death penalty is barbaric. Even on absolute edge cases like proven sociopaths there is no reason to execute them when keeping them alive, safe, and waiting to develop effective treatment and rehabiliation is cheaper.
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Jan 20, 2014 20:23
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Spangly A posted:You can use as many fancy words as you like, the death penalty is barbaric. Even on absolute edge cases like proven sociopaths there is no reason to execute them when keeping them alive, safe, and waiting to develop effective treatment and rehabiliation is cheaper. Yeah but you mustn't hurt their delicate feefees by calling them out on their sadistic bloodlust and fantasies of broomstick anal rape for prisoners. Even if you only insult them in a thread dedicated to mocking lovely regressive views, then you were Very Mean so you automatically lose the argument no matter how right you are. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Jan 20, 2014 |
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Jan 20, 2014 20:34
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Posted by a (sane) libertarian friend of mine Funnily enough Marge Arin is in the Air Force Edit: The cut off on my post basically says that the government would remunerate anyone whose property they would use for this. (Obviously if it were a thing they were doing I mean) LunarShadow fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Jan 20, 2014 |
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Jan 20, 2014 21:07
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We must protect the right of banks to keep disintigrating houses as overinflated assets on their books so they may keep lying about their solvency. Don't talk to me about ownership deriving from the willingness to put unproductive resources to work. That principle only applies when the current owners are nonwhite native people, not rich bankers!
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Jan 20, 2014 21:13
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The op in the last post also posted this, though I am only posting it here because it is a parody of a thread staple.quote:A professor stood before his philosophy class and had some items in front of him. When the class began, he wordlessly picked up a very large and empty mayonnaise jar and proceeded to fill it with golf balls. He then asked the students if the jar was full. They agreed that it was. The professor then picked up a box of pebbles and poured them into the jar. He shook the jar lightly. The pebbles roll ed into the open areas between the golf balls. He then asked the students again if the jar was full. They agreed it was. The professor next picked up a box of sand and poured it into the jar. Of course, the sand filled up everything else. He asked once more if the jar was full.. The students responded with a unanimous ‘yes.’ The professor then produced two Beers from under the table and poured the entire contents into the jar effectively filling the empty space between the sand.The students laughed.. ‘Now,’ said the professor as the laughter subsided, ‘I want you to recognize that this jar represents your life. The golf balls are the important things—-your family, your children, your health, your friends and your favorite passions—-and if everything else was lost and only they remained, your life would still be full. The pebbles are the other things that matter like your job, your house and your car.. The sand is everything else—-the small stuff. ‘If you put the sand into the jar first,’ he continued, ‘there is no room for the pebbles or the golf balls. The same goes for life. If you spend all your time and energy on the small stuff you will never have room for the things that are important to you. Pay attention to the things that are critical to your happiness. Spend time with your children. Spend time with your parents. Visit with grandparents. Take your spouse out to dinner. Play another 18. There will always be time to clean the house and mow the lawn. Take care of the golf balls first—-the things that really matter. Set your priorities. The rest is just sand. One of the students raised her hand and inquired what the Beer represented. The professor smiled and said, ‘I’m glad you asked.’ The Beer just shows you that no matter how full your life may seem, there’s always room for a couple of Beers with a friend.
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Jan 20, 2014 21:15
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VitalSigns posted:Yeah but you mustn't hurt their delicate feefees by calling them out on their sadistic bloodlust and fantasies of broomstick anal rape for prisoners. I think his point is saying that all people in favor of the death penalty are barbarians with a bloodlust. Many are just naive or ignorant of the facts.
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Jan 20, 2014 21:33
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RagnarokAngel posted:I think his point is saying that all people in favor of the death penalty are barbarians with a bloodlust. Many are just naive or ignorant of the facts. Those aren't mutually exclusive. In my experience it's typically a combination of policy ignorance and medieval, lizard-brain revenge instinct.
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Jan 20, 2014 21:38
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Right, which is why I qualified that with "just". Some people are not looking for "medieval lizard-brain revenge" and it's high and mighty to assume that, particularly if they come from a low income background and have been brainwashed to think the only way to stop a murderer is to put them down. I'm not saying support that opinion because I agree the death penalty is loving abhorrent, but no one is "perfect" in their opinions (have you literally never in your life held an opinion you later realized was dumb?) and if you wanna persuade people you attract more flies with honey than vinegar.
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Jan 20, 2014 21:41
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Is it terrible to believe there's two situations where I believe "Capital Punishment" is necessary? I think that one when is a dictator on the level of Ceaușescu/Saddam, etc. I think it's justified in some regards. (War Crimes) The other would be the Dahmer/John Wayne Gacy "Dear God this person is beyond help/People were vomiting at the crime scene"-level. It should really, really be reserved as a "Nuclear Option". Not as something you toss at someone who potentially made a mistake (killing someone during a robbery), or something of that nature. e: I hope to not sound ignorant on the matter. I'm asking if this is a bad line of thinking?
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Jan 20, 2014 21:58
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RagnarokAngel posted:
Most Accurate Custom Title Ever
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Jan 20, 2014 22:01
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Why are you so mean in the insane forwards thread?
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FuzzySkinner posted:Is it terrible to believe there's two situations where I believe "Capital Punishment" is necessary? Honestly, what do we gain by killing these people? I don't see the point.
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Jan 20, 2014 22:04
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FuzzySkinner posted:e: I hope to not sound ignorant on the matter. I'm asking if this is a bad line of thinking? Yes. It lacks any consideration for alternatives. Eg. what would have changed if Hermann Göring had been sentenced for life, like Rudolf Hess was? Nothing. The only situation where executing a prisoner is the only choice is when your prison holding political prisoners is about to be overrun by your enemies.
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Jan 20, 2014 22:09
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Nenonen posted:Yes. It lacks any consideration for alternatives. Eg. what would have changed if Hermann Göring had been sentenced for life, like Rudolf Hess was? Nothing. The only situation where executing a prisoner is the only choice is when your prison holding political prisoners is about to be overrun by your enemies. Pretty much, there's functionally no difference between 'this political dude is going to spend the rest of his life in a cell' and 'we're gonna shoot the motherfucker', either way his fanatics will see him as a martyr, the bloodthirsty factions will view whatever happens to him as too light, nothing will be massively different. It's not 'bad' in the 'you're a bad person' sense, I have a lot of Romanian family are pacifists who are totally anti-death penalty, but they celebrated the Ceausescu executions because they lived under that poo poo and it's really easy to go 'yea that dude who victimized us, gently caress that dude'. It's 'bad' in the sense of weakening your position if your position is 'the death penalty is wrong'. Issues like that is an all or nothing thing, either it's wrong or it isn't, and having some 'well except for' just leaves the door open for abuse. I mean, who's to say if the logic is 'the Ceausescus victimized us' is valid, that the same logic of 'this murderer victimized my family' isn't? It's an understandable view, but it's an issue of consistency.
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Jan 20, 2014 22:16
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RagnarokAngel posted:I think his point is saying that all people in favor of the death penalty are barbarians with a bloodlust. Many are just naive or ignorant of the facts. I think it is a emotional issue, just like abortion, which a lot of people respond to with simple and direct answers. Indeed, sometimes capital punishment may have an argument, but many of the people that were making comments weren't making an argument they were in blood lust mode.
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Jan 20, 2014 22:42
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VitalSigns posted:Of course, if you're a man you can divorce each wife when she turns 40 and remarry with a series of younger women, and conservatives like him don't give a poo poo. Wait poo poo this isn't the CK2 thread at all, I got confused 
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Jan 20, 2014 23:00
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Welp that guy from my earlier FB post responded. It's pretty great actually.quote:You see people as slaves, not individuals. You have an ultimate, sacrosanct, absolute right to them, to their property, to their labor and the products there of. It is not we who need to reexamine our views. I weep for the poor. I struggle to provide for my own family and the excesses of the wealthy juxtaposed with my mortgage payment are a sharp thorn to my side. But I understand that I have no rights which must be provided by the efforts of another. I am not entitled to anything I did not myself work for.
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Jan 20, 2014 23:31
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Gosh I really pity those billionaires, somehow working literally hundreds of thousands of times more than single parents with 3 minimum wage jobs.
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Jan 20, 2014 23:39
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namesake posted:Gosh I really pity those billionaires, somehow working literally hundreds of thousands of times more than single parents with 3 minimum wage jobs. You don't understand they have a lot of responsibility and if they fail at that they only get a severance package equal to more then most people will make in their entire life that the company raided the pensions to pay for.
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Jan 20, 2014 23:42
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To be honest I kinda want to reply that by his own argument that he has no rights enumerated by the constitution because he "didn't [himself] work for" them and because he has "no rights which must be provided by the efforts of another."
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Jan 20, 2014 23:44
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LunarShadow posted:To be honest I kinda want to reply that by his own argument that he has no rights enumerated by the constitution because he "didn't [himself] work for" them and because he has "no rights which must be provided by the efforts of another." The American Soldier, like Jesus Christ, died for your rights.
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Jan 20, 2014 23:59
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LunarShadow posted:Welp that guy from my earlier FB post responded. It's pretty great actually. Alternatively, you could take the same sarcastic tack, but about the public services he recieves just by virtue of winning the socioeconomic lottery and being born in the United States. And when he comes back with MAH TAX DOLLARS, you can price out PMCs in comparitive size to his local police force, ask if his tax bill is larger or smaller than that, and then you get to assume that he's of course sending a check for the difference to the cops. Because not only would failure to do that mark him as a hypocrite, he'd also be denying the free market!
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Jan 21, 2014 00:26
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FuzzySkinner posted:The other would be the Dahmer/John Wayne Gacy "Dear God this person is beyond help/People were vomiting at the crime scene"-level. I actually just did a bunch of reading about Dahmer and it's a shame that he was murdered in prison. Someone like that needs to be intensely studied to figure out what went wrong and how to prevent it from going wrong in the future.
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Jan 21, 2014 01:29
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LunarShadow posted:Welp that guy from my earlier FB post responded. It's pretty great actually. Wow, I've never seen someone use the heat death of the universe as an argument against property redistribution before. This is the libertarian friend with the houses post? That's an impressive leap of logic right there. I should try to win my next policy argument with the one word response, "entropy".
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Jan 21, 2014 01:42
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Discendo Vox posted:Wow, I've never seen someone use the heat death of the universe as an argument against property redistribution before. This is the libertarian friend with the houses post? That's an impressive leap of logic right there. I should try to win my next policy argument with the one word response, "entropy". This quote is from Holly Graham in the picture, the OP is my buddy.
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Jan 21, 2014 02:11
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I wanted to show this to someone but I really didn't know who. This is %100 authenticly from my facebook stream a couple months ago and I've been holding on to it ever since because the  is just....no words. 
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Jan 21, 2014 02:22
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Yeah I'd say that counts as crazy. Goddamn.
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Jan 21, 2014 02:27
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socialsecurity posted:You don't understand they have a lot of responsibility Unless of course their companies launder money for drug lords, or sell known bad investments they're secretly betting against, or gently caress up and spill thousands of gallons of poison into the water supply. Then the CEO isn't responsible for anything that happened, he just had no idea what his underlings were doing, he isn't held civilly or criminally liable, and the taxpayers swoop in with billions of dollars to clean up the mess! 
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Jan 21, 2014 02:31
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CapitanAmerica posted:"Biology class"
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Jan 21, 2014 02:36
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CapitanAmerica posted:I wanted to show this to someone but I really didn't know who. This is %100 authenticly from my facebook stream a couple months ago and I've been holding on to it ever since because the Somewhere, a statistician sees this. He is not naive, he knows that people do not understand why a small sample size is poor evidence. He has seen it his whole life; at first he tried to explain to them, to reason with them. When reason failed, he made appeals to their emotion which also fell upon deaf ears. When emotion failed he tried ignoring them but he could still see what they wrote, on the news and in the paper and on the Internet. When isolation failed him he consoled himself that at least he was not so foolish, but eventually he found no solace in that either. A thousand thousand pebbles piled upon his back, and now this one had finally topped the pile. Calmly he measures the length of rope he will need, drapes it over a supporting wooden beam in his basement, cinches it round his neck, and kicks out the chair beneath himself. At that moment the earth begins to shake, and the supporting beam collapses, dropping him to the floor. Gasping, stunned, he asks aloud "Huh... what are the chances?" He begins to weep, a defeated man. What are the chances.
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Jan 21, 2014 02:38
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I spent some of my middle school science curriculum in a Christian schooling coop. This kind of poo poo was just as common and expected as a 30 year old video on why evolution is for dummies and abortionists. It's an entirely different world, where every single natural process has a biblical basis or at least can be explained by scripture. Fortunately, the history class I took there wasn't half as wacky.
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Jan 21, 2014 02:44
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Lord Girlyman posted:I spent some of my middle school science curriculum in a "Christian schooling coop". This kind of poo poo was just as common and expected as a 30 year old video on why evolution is for dummies and abortionists.
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Jan 21, 2014 02:46
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Seems legit. Purify Food and Drink is a 0-level cleric spell, so basically anyone who has read the Bible can probably cast it. Remember, God has a Divine Plan...unless a mortal puts his hands together and asks God to do something different, then you know, whatever the original Plan wasn't that important anyway.
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Jan 21, 2014 02:46
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CapnAndy posted:Did you actually do the "experiment" or were the jars just presented to you all "and this is what happened"? If you actually did it, how do you think they rig it so you get the right results? The only experiment we ever did ourselves was a thing with sugar water forming a stalagmite over a week. We would be presented with a demonstration and be taught the theory as to why it occurred like it did.
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Jan 21, 2014 02:50
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CapnAndy posted:Did you actually do the "experiment" or were the jars just presented to you all "and this is what happened"? If you actually did it, how do you think they rig it so you get the right results? If there's more growth in the 'blessed' jar, it's because the bacteria represent god's love of all life. If there's more growth in the 'cursed' jar, it's because the bacteria represent rot and decay.
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Jan 21, 2014 02:59
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There's no control jar 
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Jan 21, 2014 03:01
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Pththya-lyi posted:There's no control jar God is in control, of course.
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Jan 21, 2014 03:19
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