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Segmentation Fault posted:I honestly disagree, I think it looks great. Playing Doom through Chocolate Doom has reminded me just how dark some sections of the game can be. The source ports and 32 bit coloring fail to capture the pitch blackness of certain rooms, so the experience is totally different. Anyone who thinks Doom 3 was too dark should have a go through Doom in vanilla or Chocolate. Yeah Doom isn't so bad, but for some reason Quake just looks horrible in software rendering. Maybe it's all the angled surfaces or textures.  
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Jan 21, 2014 20:16
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any source port of Quake that gets rid of the original janky animations can eat my rear end
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Jan 21, 2014 20:48
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Fag Boy Jim posted:any source port of Quake that gets rid of the original janky animations can eat my rear end I've used the smooth animations function for so long that I've forgotten what the original ones look like. 
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Jan 21, 2014 21:06
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I do prefer software Quake. It's dingy and gritty, as Quake should be in my opinion. However a number of source ports smooth things out adequately as far as I'm concerned. But GLquake? That's the look you prefer? I hate to continue what sounds like more grognard circle-jerking, but GLquake renders textures, lighting, and some effects so badly that Carmack himself (he made the GLquake source port) said that it's a piece of poo poo. Are you using a more contemporary source port than that? Edit: Also I remember looking at what I'm sure is that exact image like 15 years ago. It was used as a promo for 3Dfx Voodoo graphics and is super dated. Vanilla WinQuake can run resolutions way higher than that on the left side of the image. Edit 2: And the right side, for that matter... Mak0rz fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Jan 21, 2014 |
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Jan 21, 2014 21:27
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mod sassinator posted:Yeah Doom isn't so bad, but for some reason Quake just looks horrible in software rendering. Maybe it's all the angled surfaces or textures. I unironically love that VGA renderer. It's all nostalgia though.
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Jan 21, 2014 21:47
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Mak0rz posted:I do prefer software Quake. It's dingy and gritty, as Quake should be in my opinion. However a number of source ports smooth things out adequately as far as I'm concerned. Yeah it was the only decent image of the software rendering like it was back in Quake's heyday (320x200 or so) I could quickly find on an image search. I'm sure even software rendering looks fine once you get up to 1024+ resolution, but crank it down low and it's pixel soup.
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Jan 21, 2014 22:21
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mod sassinator posted:Yeah it was the only decent image of the software rendering like it was back in Quake's heyday (320x200 or so) I could quickly find on an image search. I'm sure even software rendering looks fine once you get up to 1024+ resolution, but crank it down low and it's pixel soup. Yeah, no arguments there. I played Quake 64 years before the PC version. Even at that time before I had my rose-colored nostalgia glasses I would always disable the texture filtering because I thought it looked way better than the muddy mess you get with filtering enabled. The game was already rendered at 320x240 on an SDTV connected via composite video. It really didn't need to be blurrier.
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Jan 21, 2014 22:36
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Mak0rz posted:Yeah, no arguments there. 
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Jan 21, 2014 22:44
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High res updates really depend on the game itself. I generally like an upgraded resolution but cannot stand the pixel smoothing effect given to so many classics. That said, I did enjoy the hell out of Duke 3d's High Def Pack from a years ago - but only for the environments. Games that radically change the character animations and designs tend to really feel sacrilegious. There's a horde of improvements for Thief 1 that I've largely ignored - I'm playing with a slightly upgraded resolution 800 x 600 but everything else is probably pretty close to the original. That said, old control schemes really are the largest obstacle to enjoyment. I'm a console gamer and already feel pretty out of sorts with WASD - but anything beyond that really jerks me out of the experience. For comparison's sake... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIY-d3U7qK8
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Jan 21, 2014 23:04
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I'm generally fine with smoothing on static textures but sprites should be left alone. Good sprite art is meticulously designed around the limitations of the style. Best of all, sprites scale flawlessly. The Doom imp is just as readable tiny As it is large. 
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Jan 21, 2014 23:55
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closeted republican posted:I've used the smooth animations function for so long that I've forgotten what the original ones look like. It kinda looks like stop-motion animation, actually. I've once seen Quake's original jerky animation likened to a Ray Harryhausen movie, and I think it's a good comparison. When you see it that way, it does increase the game's surreal atmosphere.
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Jan 22, 2014 00:09
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I think was was posted some time ago, but this is a good article on the differences between software rendered and hardware accelerated GLQuake, https://www.quaddicted.com/engines/software_vs_glquake I've been replaying Quake again using the Quakespasm port and the settings in the article and I'm definitely happier with the software rendered style.
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Jan 22, 2014 00:29
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Use GL_NEAREST_MIPMAP_LINEAR, or however the port you're using does that. It removes the aliasing effects in the distance but keeps close-up magnified textures non-blurred.
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Jan 22, 2014 00:29
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Is Doom 64 worth a playthrough?
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Jan 22, 2014 00:34
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I've always thought bilinear and trilinear filtering looked like hot rear end myself. Upscaling algorithms like HQX are alright, but I usually just play with no filtering.
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Jan 22, 2014 00:37
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victrix posted:Is Doom 64 worth a playthrough? Yes, both on original hardware and better with the Doom 64 EX source port.
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Jan 22, 2014 00:39
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Voltek posted:I think was was posted some time ago, but this is a good article on the differences between software rendered and hardware accelerated GLQuake, https://www.quaddicted.com/engines/software_vs_glquake This is a pretty good summary, but they missed the underwater distortion effect which is something I found really jarring. In software there's a wavy overlay. In GLquake, underwater polygons get distorted causing (in addition to nausea) clipping issues and allowing you to see outside the level boundary. It looks awful.
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Jan 22, 2014 00:44
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victrix posted:Is Doom 64 worth a playthrough?  Theres a letsplay of Absolution somewhere on the archive if you prefer that option. I used it for a taste of the game and to finish it when my own efforts fizzled.Absoultion is not Doom 64, the more you know. Is Doom 64 itself significantly better? Thyrork fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Jan 22, 2014 |
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Jan 22, 2014 01:40
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Shadowmorn posted:Honestly i tried to enjoy Absoultion (the PC port of Doom 64) but its such a pain. All the loving hell knights. All the loving time. Absolution is poo poo, but not for the reason you just posted. Doom 64EX is a far superior port (and actually is a port, rather than a handfisted map pack like Absolution). I also don't remember noticeably more Hell Knights in Doom 64 than in Doom II 
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Jan 22, 2014 01:59
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Mak0rz posted:Absolution is poo poo, but not for the reason you just posted. Doom 64EX is a far superior port (and actually is a port, rather than a handfisted map pack like Absolution). Yeah, Absolution is a pretty awkward mod made in the style of Doom 64, but it's not actually Doom 64. 64EX literally takes the N64 rom and converts it into a PC game.
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Jan 22, 2014 02:01
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Doom 64 is missing some enemies (chaingunners, revenants, archie) so I can see where you'd think the enemy variety is lacking. It also loves its switch puzzles.
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Jan 22, 2014 02:10
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Mak0rz posted:Absolution is poo poo, but not for the reason you just posted. Doom 64EX is a far superior port (and actually is a port, rather than a handfisted map pack like Absolution). Wow okay, Thanks for clearing that up.  Internet Friend posted:Doom 64 is missing some enemies (chaingunners, revenants, archie) That.
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Jan 22, 2014 02:12
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I feel like the only person in the world who actually appreciated Absolution and thought it improved on the (already very good) original game. edit: other than the fact that it runs on some weirdass version of doomsday, gently caress that
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Jan 22, 2014 02:17
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How exactly are 64EX and Absolution different? All I remember is the lack of the cool intro in Absolution: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl29_hYqxq0
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Jan 22, 2014 02:26
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Bouchacha posted:How exactly are 64EX and Absolution different? All I remember is the lack of the cool intro in Absolution: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl29_hYqxq0 Completely different levels, quite different gameplay, different movement physics, engine, lighting, etc.
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Jan 22, 2014 02:31
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Playing Doom 64 for the first time now, and I'm kind of torn about it. On one hand, it is atmospheric as gently caress. Sound, graphics, lighting: everything hits a perfect sweetspot between Doom and Quake that I absolutely love. Stylistically, it feels like the best and most condensed example of everything I adore about early iD games, which is funny because it was developed by Midway. On the other hand, I hate switchhunts. And man, does Doom 64 love them. I'll finish it because it's kind of the last part of the 'classic' Doom trilogy (no, seriously: from plot to style, this was supposed to be Doom 3 and it really shows in a good way). But I do hope later maps will up the tempo a bit and lessen the switches.
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Jan 22, 2014 02:34
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Just as a heads up, Shadow Warrior Classic now has a Workshop for custom maps. SW doesn't have nearly as many maps made for it as Duke 3D does, but there are some good ones if you're tired of playing the default map set.
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Jan 22, 2014 03:12
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Dominic White posted:Completely different levels, quite different gameplay, different movement physics, engine, lighting, etc. Absolution has every level from the original Doom 64, unaltered in any real way; they just added a handful of their own maps, too, and adjusted level order accordingly.
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Jan 22, 2014 04:11
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Whenever I hear the Doom 64 intro music I expect a "DING" before the crying babies and this to kick in.
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Jan 22, 2014 06:01
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Sobatchja Morda posted:Playing Doom 64 for the first time now, and I'm kind of torn about it. I don't think the switches are all that bad in Doom 64. I think it's cool how some of the rooms rebuild themselves after you hit a switch. Also, it seems like the levels are designed really well. If feels a little weird to think about how the size of Doom 64 was smaller than Doom or Doom II, and yet, like you mentioned, it seems to condense all of the best parts of the series into one game, and somehow makes it better. I think Doom 64 is even Doomier than Doom. 
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Jan 22, 2014 06:33
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Jakcson posted:I don't think the switches are all that bad in Doom 64. I think it's cool how some of the rooms rebuild themselves after you hit a switch. Also, it seems like the levels are designed really well. Now someone needs to make Brutal Doom 64 so we can get ridiculous gore and racism into it.
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Jan 22, 2014 06:37
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The only problem I have with Doom 64 is that the game's maps are littered with permanently-missable secrets. Doom has none that I remember and Doom II has only one that leads to a modest ammo cache, but many of those in Doom 64 lead to secret levels, useful items, and (I think) Unmaker Artifacts. The enemy diversity isn't too bad. It would be nice to swap one of the baron/knights or nightmare imps for revenants and I did sort of miss the Spider Mastermind, but otherwise it was pretty good.
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Jan 22, 2014 07:28
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Barfing Cumlord posted:Absolution has every level from the original Doom 64, unaltered in any real way This is absolutely untrue. Most puzzles in the game and huge swaths of some levels are completely different or excised entirely. It's more them being hamstrung by Doomsday's capabilities than a deliberate choice, but them's the facts. And the new maps are confusing messes that are an absolute chore to complete. I appreciate the hell out of Sam Villarreal for everything he's done for the Doom community (including developing Doom64EX), but boy oh boy is he a terrible mapper. It was me who did that Doom 64 LP and I really regret using The Absolution to show off what I consider to be the best of the Doom games. I mean, I respect the developers' attempt to bring the game to a wider audience and for getting it mostly right given the limitations of the engine, but the completely unnecessary changes like the new maps, arbitrarily rearranged levels, horrible new monsters, and changed behavior for existing monsters (hyper Pain Elementals!) really drag it down.
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Jan 22, 2014 07:33
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Is 64EX faithful?
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Jan 22, 2014 08:22
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victrix posted:Is 64EX faithful? It takes a Doom 64 ROM and converts it to something that can be played on PC, so I imagine it is.
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Jan 22, 2014 08:25
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Doom 64 was my first Doom game. At the time the only FPS I could play was Wolfenstein 3D so I really appreciated the slower pace and moody atmosphere which gelled with Wolfenstein being a slower game (compared to Doom). There are issues but it's a really great game that got passed over in 1997 because 3D was the new hotness and Doom 64 was dated long before it came out. Of course it's held up way better than Turok or any of the other clunky 3D console games we played because it looked new at the time. Doom 64 being the real Doom 3 is spot on. They tried to capture the pacing and atmosphere but narrow corridors and scripted monster closets just isn't "Doom." e: Something I didn't know until now but they lower your point of view so everything appears larger. The pinky demons were really opposing and I remember playing Doom on Xbox with the Doom 3 special edition thinking "what's with these fat pink squat things that make grunting noises? This is dumb." al-azad fucked around with this message at 10:16 on Jan 22, 2014 |
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Jan 22, 2014 10:08
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Haha, I think the demons in D64 are the worst looking of the sprites, and the only sprite I don't think is hideous is the pain elemental. I'm really digging it though, very cool level design, very moody atmosphere. It's a good break from the balls hard D2 wads I've been playing lately. And yeah I agree, I think the nonstop combat maps kind of miss the ambience aspect of Doom. Nothing wrong with them, I just like maps that give you a breather at times. edit: One other thing - as a general rule, I'm finding that maps that try to be 'realistic' in their design are really boring. It's the abstract maps that suggest a concept, or just plain look cool that I like a lot more. Most bases/cities/research labs are boring. I get more than enough of those in modern fpses, I'd rather explore some weird poo poo. I think that's one of the reasons I enjoyed UT multiplayer maps so much, and deathmatch maps in arena shooters in general. Abstract environments concerned with either flow (for good dm maps) or just cool looking design (for crappy dm maps by good artists  ) were usually my favorites.victrix fucked around with this message at 11:09 on Jan 22, 2014 |
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Jan 22, 2014 10:21
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Onos! The source code to the Natural Selection mod for Half-Life 1 is now on GitHub! It's not "open source" per-se for legal reasons, but Unknown Worlds say that "you can use the NS source code to make your own version of the original game, fix problems with it, make new problems, or just see how the game worked."
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Jan 22, 2014 13:07
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The Colonel posted:Speaking of Doom, I've been plowing through Doom 2 today. And, well, I heard the level design was bad, and it has been so far, with a few exceptions, but jesus christ is Map 28 the worst thing I've ever played so far. This totally got me when I was playing doom 2 again last month. Im fine with running around lost for a few minutes (otherwise I wouldnt have played doom 2 again) but that is literally the worst level design I've encountered in any FPS. iirc the wall you need to shoot has no markings on it that would indicate it is also a door. I spent way too long on that before giving up and looking at a guide.
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Jan 22, 2014 14:29
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I solved that by playing through with Russian Overkill. Because every weapon shoots everything
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Jan 22, 2014 15:01
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