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Super.Jesus posted:Maybe the Merlin has his own grey council or ministry of ungentlemanly warfare. Sure he does. It's called Blackstaff McCoy.
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Jan 22, 2014 19:17
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Raygereio posted:I'm guessing you're thinking about Blood Rites. Aimed at who?
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Jan 22, 2014 21:54
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WastedJoker posted:Aimed at who? The Red Court
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Jan 22, 2014 21:58
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WastedJoker posted:Aimed at who? The entire Red Court. Or, I suppose, at the Red King.
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Jan 22, 2014 21:58
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I need to re-read the books because I thought that already happened and it was clearly the work of the Red King? So I don't get all this talk about Merlin being behind it etc.
WastedJoker fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Jan 22, 2014 |
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Jan 22, 2014 22:38
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WastedJoker posted:I need to re-read the books because I thought that already happened and it was clearly the work of the Red King? So I don't get all this talk about Merlin being behind it etc. The entropy curse we're talking about is hypothetical. The thing you're thinking of is the heartsploding lineage-killing ritual.
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Jan 22, 2014 22:48
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WastedJoker posted:I need to re-read the books because I thought that already happened and it was clearly the work of the Red King? So I don't get all this talk about Merlin being behind it etc. At the end of changes the red king has the worst thing that could have happened to him happen and under normal circumstances it never should of happened. Since it was the worst thing to happen to him it almost sounds like it could of been an entropy curse.
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Jan 22, 2014 23:12
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Am I getting a bloodline curse mixed up with an entropy curse then?
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Jan 23, 2014 00:20
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WastedJoker posted:Am I getting a bloodline curse mixed up with an entropy curse then? Entropy curses make the target die... somehow. The exact nature of the death is not under the control of the one who casts the curse. Bloodline curses are just curses that are tied to/target a bloodline.
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Jan 23, 2014 00:22
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WastedJoker posted:Am I getting a bloodline curse mixed up with an entropy curse then? Yes. The bloodline curse was the curse the Duchess oriana/red king was going to use to kill harry and ebenezer . That is explained fully in the book. Somethingawful fan theory is that Merlin cursed the Red king with a "bad luck curse" which caused harry to intervene at just the right moment.
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Jan 23, 2014 00:31
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First time reader here again and currently on Summer Knight. Harry comes home and loving Elaine is there?!?!?? Mind. Blown. Just had to share.
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Jan 23, 2014 00:36
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1554 posted:First time reader here again and currently on Summer Knight. To be honest, the first time I read the book I got up to around the point where Harry's talking about it and I thought it was foreshadowing. Like, "Oh, he's talking about his lost love whom he's presumed dead for the past few years? She's totally showing up soon".
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Jan 23, 2014 00:51
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I thought it was going to be Susan The Vampire!
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Jan 23, 2014 01:08
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docbeard posted:
I would not be at all surprised if he's Blackstaff-In-Training as far as Merlin is concerned.
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Jan 23, 2014 01:23
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Until one of the more recent books, I always thought that Harry was being trained as a potential future Gatekeeper.
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Jan 23, 2014 03:17
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fermun posted:Until one of the more recent books, I always thought that Harry was being trained as a potential future Gatekeeper. By the end of the series, Harry will be the Winter Knight, the Gatekeeper, the Blackstaff, have the use of soulfire, have Demonsreach at his disposal, get the ex-Denarian living in his head back, know the secrets of Kemmler, and be Starborn. Plus whatever the hell else Butcher comes up with in the meantime. Power creep is one of the problems with this series.
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Jan 23, 2014 03:28
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You mean just like every other soft fantasy series?
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Jan 23, 2014 03:30
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Super.Jesus posted:You mean just like every other soft fantasy series? Yes but this one owns ok 
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Jan 23, 2014 03:58
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Ramadu posted:Yes but this one owns ok Give Butcher credit too, it's not like all this "powering up" hasn't come with a price tag pretty much every time. I mean, does anybody think being the Winter Knight isn't far more hindrance than help as far as Harry is concerned? His enemies certainly seem to keep up with his power level, or else started and have stayed way over his power level. Also doesn't hurt a lot of his victories tend to be painful if not downright pyrrhic (occasionally literally, as his hand can attest). If you're gonna do power creep, this is probably the way to do it. Assuming it really is power creep, considering one of his deadliest enemies in the last book was the pretty much unpowered guy throwing bombs and pixies at him.
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Jan 23, 2014 05:19
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Arcsech posted:By the end of the series, Harry will be the Winter Knight, the Gatekeeper, the Blackstaff, have the use of soulfire, have Demonsreach at his disposal, get the ex-Denarian living in his head back, know the secrets of Kemmler, and be Starborn. I expected the Dresden Files to end with Harry dying , but, well, you know. ..Yeah, but I do expect the Dresden that's reading the files to be Maggie because I really don't see Harry being a part of her life, except maybe in a Darth Vader kind of way. [edit] HAH! OH GOD IT WOULD TOTALLY WORK! "The council never told you what happened to your mother?" "They told me enough, they told me you killed her!" Ghetto Prince fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Jan 23, 2014 |
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Jan 23, 2014 05:33
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"Well, yeah, but from a certain point of view..."
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Jan 23, 2014 05:46
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Arcsech posted:By the end of the series, Harry will be the Winter Knight, the Gatekeeper, the Blackstaff, have the use of soulfire, have Demonsreach at his disposal, get the ex-Denarian living in his head back, know the secrets of Kemmler, and be Starborn. I am also thinking that harry will be the original merlin thanks to time travel, or at the very least meet the guy
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Jan 23, 2014 07:31
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My biggest problem with most of the assumptions people are making about the Merlin knowing what's up with Maggie and Dresden going to rescue her is how explicitly it's pointed out that Harry needs to keep this as secret as possible from him. Also the fact that the Merlin would bust a vessel if he knew about the grey council, the entire REASON there is a grey council is to act without the Merlin or the vast majority of the White council knowing what's up.
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Jan 23, 2014 07:52
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MadDogMike posted:Also doesn't hurt a lot of his victories tend to be painful if not downright pyrrhic (occasionally literally, as his hand can attest).  Pyrrhic victories come from King Pyrrhus, who fought two battles against Rome and though outnumbered, he won and inflicted more casualties than he took, but lost all of his friends and generals and quite a few soldiers. Rome wound up having more volunteers to their legions upon hearing of the defeats than the number of casualties they received, and as a result, Pyrrhus's victories cost him the war. It's not a pyric victory, it's Pyrrhic.
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Jan 23, 2014 10:10
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fermun posted:
 Pyrrhic. Pyric. Pyre... Burnt Hand.
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Jan 23, 2014 10:32
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Come to think of it, how many people do you suppose know about the existence of the Blackstaff position? Pretty hard to see someone like Morgan tolerating it, especially from someone he probably worked with fairly often. EDIT: Conversely, if Morgan and Luccio didn't know about Ebenezar's real job the Council ran the risk of them finding out on their own. With predictable and likely spectacular results. See the whole "Would probably reflexively decapitate themselves" comment. Donraj fucked around with this message at 12:00 on Jan 23, 2014 |
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Jan 23, 2014 11:55
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I've just started a re-read of the series starting with Grave Peril, and the masquerade ball scene at the end make me wonder if Ferrofax will ever make another appearance.
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Jan 23, 2014 12:45
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Captain_Person posted:I've just started a re-read of the series starting with Grave Peril, and the masquerade ball scene at the end make me wonder if Ferrofax will ever make another appearance. Butcher has stated he will be back in time for the finale trilogy. And also that he's super badass and on the short list of things that could take Mab.
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Jan 23, 2014 12:55
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Donraj posted:Butcher has stated he will be back in time for the finale trilogy. I wonder if the name is an indicator of him going against faeries? Ferro = iron?
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Jan 23, 2014 13:20
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WastedJoker posted:I wonder if the name is an indicator of him going against faeries? Ferro = iron? I remember reading that he's implied to be some character from the Codex Alera books, but I haven't read them.
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Jan 23, 2014 13:54
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Donraj posted:Come to think of it, how many people do you suppose know about the existence of the Blackstaff position? Pretty hard to see someone like Morgan tolerating it, especially from someone he probably worked with fairly often. And unless whoever holds the position of Blackstaff is really good about covering his tracks, the head of the Wardens is probably at the very least aware that the White Council occasionally sanctions the use of black magic. Changes spoilers DJ_Ferret posted:My biggest problem with most of the assumptions people are making about the Merlin knowing what's up with Maggie and Dresden going to rescue her is how explicitly it's pointed out that Harry needs to keep this as secret as possible from him. The entropy curse changes probability so that whatever can go wrong, will go wrong. Is there a chance the brakes in your car won't work and you'll die in a car accident? Well, then they will break. Is there a chance a frozen turkey falls from a plane and lands on your head? Well, then it will fall on your head. All the Merlin would have to do after putting the bad luck curse on the Red Court, is put the Red Court in a situation where something can go horribly wrong for them. Remember that Harry stampeded into White Council HQ when Arianna was over there for "peace talks" and openly challenged her. The Merlin knows Harry already hates the Red Court and that he now has a personal bone to pick with Arianna. The Merlin also knows that Harry is a human wrecking ball (which really is the whole joke behind this theory), which makes him a good choice to be the situation that goes horribly wrong. All he'd have to is point Harry at the Red Court by saying "Don't go after the Red Court" and sit back and watch what happens.
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Jan 23, 2014 13:56
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Raygereio posted:My guess would be selected members of the senior council. From what we know about the guy, I can see the Merlin & Co agreeing to keep this sort of stuff away from Gregori. As Harry said before. You don't need a lot of power to defeat a more powerful enemy. You just jog his arm when he's messing with supernatural high explosives.
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Jan 23, 2014 14:34
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Captain_Person posted:I've just started a re-read of the series starting with Grave Peril, and the masquerade ball scene at the end make me wonder if Ferrofax will ever make another appearance. Sup starting-on-Grave-Peril reread buddy! I'm already finished Summer Knight after three days  I'm realising there is all sorts of poo poo I don't remember. Specifically, I totally forgot that Harry met the Mothers before Cold Days. Also I'm running into random dumb jokes I forgot about as well. "I caught it, stuck my tongue out at Aurora, yelled "Meep meep!" and ran like hell."
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Jan 23, 2014 15:28
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Wife Update: (Changes Spoilers) She's reading through changes, about 2/3s of the way through, Harry just became winter knight and is running from the Eebs through the FBI building. Every now and then she pulls out some theory and I just have to sit there with my best poker face while the whole time I'm thinking "that's so cute!"  Her latest theory: "I'm thinking Harry gets out of this whole Winter Knight thing through some clever trickery. I mean that's his whole thing right? And he can't let Mab control him like that..." She didn't have as much of a reaction to the office/house/car being destroyed as I thought she would, but she laughed in the beginning when they raid the Red Court offices.
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Jan 23, 2014 15:35
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treeboy posted:Wife Update: (Changes Spoilers) I'm imagining this was your reaction:  (Or, perhaps, her reaction if you remind her of her theory after she finishes the book.) BrooklynBruiser fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Jan 23, 2014 |
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Jan 23, 2014 18:51
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Arcsech posted:By the end of the series, Harry will be the Winter Knight, the Gatekeeper, the Blackstaff, have the use of soulfire, have Demonsreach at his disposal, get the ex-Denarian living in his head back, know the secrets of Kemmler, and be Starborn. I actually feel that compared to other long series within the genre Butcher has done an excellent job of avoiding the creep. With Harry's first significant power creep 6 or 7 books in, aside from hellfire most of Lash's help came in the form of information and tactics rather than a direct power buff. Even when Harry gained Soulfire it was more of a horizontal shift since it filled the hole left by lash's death (not to mention it hasn't really been explored much). The recent Winter Knight stuff is obviously a major power up, but I'm okay with that since Changes (along with being a fulcrum point for the entire series) cost Harry so much. I consider Cold Days creep as Harry learning to use the mantle rather than an independant power up. If you want to see what bad power creep is like compare the early Anita Blake novels with the recent ones. 
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Jan 23, 2014 19:07
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The Winter Knight abilities is a very restricted power gain. Not only does getting stabbed with iron cause him lose power rapidly, but betraying the Winter Law (which he barely understands) can instantly paralyze him. Harry's real increase in power has come more from knowledge and having badass allies/friends. As it should be.
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Jan 23, 2014 19:28
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DrFrankenStrudel posted:If you want to see what bad power creep is like compare the early Anita Blake novels with the recent ones. Anita doesn't have a vagina, just a bag she can pull godlike powers out of at need. What I find interesting with the power creep is that his enemies haven't significantly changed. The outsiders/fae/denarians/vampires have been there from the early novels. I really can't articulate why, but its satisfying somehow to have the antagonists evolve and change tactics overtime rather than introducing a new, more powerful enemy every book. Dienes fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Jan 23, 2014 |
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Jan 23, 2014 19:42
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Dienes posted:Anita doesn't have a vagina, just a bag she can pull godlike powers out of at need. It's building the character of the antagonists, they have motivations, personalities and flaws. Introducing new villians is a great way to shake things up, but it also runs head long into the Dragonball Z issues of power creep, where eventually the only challenge to the protagonists is something that can casually anihilate the universe.
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Jan 23, 2014 19:57
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Dienes posted:What I find interesting with the power creep is that his enemies haven't significantly changed. The outsiders/fae/denarians/fampires have been there from the early novels. I really can't articulate why, but its satisfying somehow to have the antagonists evolve and change tactics overtime rather than introducing a new, more powerful enemy every book. This is very true. And I must say I enjoy the series very much, and it has done a good job of balancing power creep with cost for that power and keeping the antagonists fairly constant helps - Butcher did a good job with making them ridiculously powerful from the start. I think it's more satisfying because they've had the time to be built up as actual characters with proper personalities rather than New Villain #47, and even when he beats them it's usually more along the lines of winning a battle, not putting them down for good. But it does feel a bit ridiculous at times, even so.
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Jan 23, 2014 20:00
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