|
Mr. Maltose posted:Wasn't his "loss" to Doomsday him leaving because putting in the necessary effort to destroy it wasn't worth the planet they were both on? I think his loss was him teleporting Doomsday to somewhere random in space because he did not want to fight him anymore. Darkseid also did kill Doomsday with his Omega Beams which the creature became immune to after. It also funny that Doomsday became weaker as time went on despite becoming stronger as well. The reason that was given for this was actually pretty clever. He had managed to evolve to the point were he was intelligent and as a result of this intelligence he developed a fear of pain and death.
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 03:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 20:04 |
|
|
MVP posted:JL:War was really bad but the animation was decent. An actual character calls Wonder Woman's outfit a "whore's outfit" in Justice League War, for those wondering. JL War sounds like the worst try too hard edgy poo poo they've ever put out.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 05:57
|
|
|
KungFu Grip posted:An actual character calls Wonder Woman's outfit a "whore's outfit" in Justice League War, for those wondering. JL War sounds like the worst try too hard edgy poo poo they've ever put out. Regardless, I'm glad this guy hasn't seen Kill la Kill.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 07:46
|
|
|
Knight Boat posted:Well of course he's pathetic. He's a villain. All villains are pathetic to their core and not at all badass as so many people seem to believe. This is something that pops up again and again in Morrison's work. As I understood, Darkseid was in that state because the New Gods had gone through an apocalyptic war where they were all slain (see Seven Soldiers). His soul was trying to possess and reincarnate itself in the body of a human: Dan Turpin, an aging smoker, of all people. Aside from this weak flesh, he also bore serious spiritual scars from that war. And somehow this guy managed to claw himself back to the land of the living. Before he's even on his feet again, he's got most of humanity under his mind control.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 10:09
|
|
|
It feels anticlimactic, though. Superman shows up to confront a god who's already been beaten down by other guys. There's no grand fight, all Superman has to do is a sing a song to finish him off.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 10:17
|
|
|
The Question IRL posted:I disagree. Not with Final Criss being lazy, say what you will about that story (and I will say plenty of bad things about it, the story wasn't lazy.) But the moral to that story was "Superman Wins." But regardless of how you feel about that story, it's not a punch-up. Superman and Darkseid don't go toe to toe in a fist-fight. There's a reason why Darkseid is depicted as decrepit and shattered in that story and it has nothing to do with him being a big alien dude for Superman to punch. There's more levels and much more meaning to that conflict, and to what Darkseid is and what he symbolizes. In Justice League: Origin and similar stories, Darkseid symbolizes 'big, strong guy'. If that's what you needed for your story to work, Kalibak or Steppenwolfe are already there for that. There's nothing wrong with having a Superhero punch Darkseid, but if all he's there for is to get punched a lot, then you've got a boring story on your hands.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 10:21
|
|
|
KungFu Grip posted:An actual character calls Wonder Woman's outfit a "whore's outfit" in Justice League War, for those wondering. JL War sounds like the worst try too hard edgy poo poo they've ever put out. Ah okay, my bad. I'll remove it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 15:39
|
|
|
Dan Didio posted:There's nothing wrong with having a Superhero punch Darkseid, but if all he's there for is to get punched a lot, then you've got a boring story on your hands. Counterpoint: Every episode of Superman The Animated Series and/or Justice League where Darkseid appears pretty much always turns into Superman punching Darkseid a lot and all those episodes are awesome. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km5DgeLDkNI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmTg7ROPssc
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 18:52
|
|
|
Kurzon posted:As I understood, Darkseid was in that state because the New Gods had gone through an apocalyptic war where they were all slain (see Seven Soldiers). His soul was trying to possess and reincarnate itself in the body of a human: Dan Turpin, an aging smoker, of all people. Aside from this weak flesh, he also bore serious spiritual scars from that war. And somehow this guy managed to claw himself back to the land of the living. Before he's even on his feet again, he's got most of humanity under his mind control. TwoPair posted:Counterpoint: Every episode of Superman The Animated Series and/or Justice League where Darkseid appears pretty much always turns into Superman punching Darkseid a lot and all those episodes are awesome.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 19:22
|
|
|
I'd also say that having superman just lash out at him says something about both characters. Supes was usually pretty calm and collected, but he just loses it when he fights darkseid. It helps shows just how much darkseid has hosed with superman and how much superman hates him. It also shows that darkseid is big deal, because he's the only one who can get such a reaction out of supes. It's much more enjoyable to watch then darkseid just being a strong guy they fight.
Monaghan fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Jan 25, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 21:17
|
|
|
The ending of Apokolips Now is really the height of the DCAU. Turpin standing up to Darkseid, the amazing music for the New Gods, Darkseid being a petty dick, Superman punching the machine, murder on a children's cartoon, Maggie getting to be with her girlfriend on screen, the best tribute and goodbye to Kirby, "In the end the world didn't really need a superman... just a brave one," and "Daniel Turpin--Earth's Greatest Hero." It's a few minutes dense with beauty and pure guts that you never really saw on Saturday morning.
Timeless Appeal fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Jan 25, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 21:48
|
|
|
I remember quite a few vids of Superman world of cardboard speech were he attacks Darkseid with his full strength. Then the comments are about how awesome Superman is and strong Superman is. The vids also conveniently leave out the part were Darkseid one shots Superman after taking next to no damage from his attacks. I remember a horrible scene in the comics were Superman blinds Darkseid almost as bad as the blinding him the WAR movie. They both resulted in Darkseid being unable to use his Omega Beams despite the fact that Darkseid can create Avatars and Projections that fire off Omega Beams. He can fire Omega beams from his hands and any other part of his body that wants and even fire Omega beams from other people's eyes.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 21:55
|
|
|
Timeless Appeal posted:The ending of Apokolips Now is really the height of the DCAU. Turpin standing up to Darkseid, the amazing music for the New Gods, Darkseid being a petty dick, Superman punching the machine, murder on a children's cartoon, Maggie getting to be with her girlfriend on screen, the best tribute and goodbye to Kirby, "In the end the world didn't really need a superman... just a brave one," and "Daniel Turpin--Earth's Greatest Hero." It's a few minutes dense with beauty and pure guts that you never really saw on Saturday morning. The problem I had with that bit was that Darkseid's eye beams had only been shown teleporting people up to that point, so it followed to me that Turpin was still alive, just imprisoned and enslaved on Apokolips, and nobody came for him ever.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 22:35
|
|
|
Bruce Timm has never made Darkseid look weak (unlike the comic books). Even in JL:War, the entire League had to gang up on him to take him down. What bothered me about the movie is that there was no point to his character other than to show up and get into a fistfight with the League, as if he was the final boss to a World of Warcraft dungeon. There was none of the fun stuff about Anti-Life or the court intrigues or the ideological contrasts with New Genesis. Even in the TV shows Bruce Timm never delved deeply into the Fourth World mythology. I especially hated they gave him a digitally distorted voice that conveyed no personality.SlothfulCobra posted:The problem I had with that bit was that Darkseid's eye beams had only been shown teleporting people up to that point, so it followed to me that Turpin was still alive, just imprisoned and enslaved on Apokolips, and nobody came for him ever. Baron Bifford fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Jan 25, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 22:42
|
|
|
Baron Bifford posted:It also occurs me that Turpin was the only death in that entire episode. They mourned only for that one guy and not for any other casualties. It's like Darkseid ordered his troops to only do property damage.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 22:54
|
|
|
Timeless Appeal posted:Eh, Darkseid's whole thing is subjugation.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 22:55
|
|
|
MonsterEnvy posted:I remember quite a few vids of Superman world of cardboard speech were he attacks Darkseid with his full strength. Then the comments are about how awesome Superman is and strong Superman is. The vids also conveniently leave out the part were Darkseid one shots Superman after taking next to no damage from his attacks.  estGod the last scene in JLU is great https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WslDR5SrKQ Though other than the Question, Mark Hamill as the Trickster, Lex and Flash switching minds, my favorite JL moment has to be this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GMbeQe0klA Man Green Arrow had the best theme 
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 23:40
|
|
|
Timeless Appeal posted:Eh, Darkseid's whole thing is subjugation. I have no problem imagining him not really killing anyone, and only killing Turpin to be an rear end in a top hat. Yeah, he specifically says as much in the Legacy fight when Superman calls out a punch for Dan Turpin. "If I knew the death of one mere human caused you so much pain I would have killed thousands!" To Darkseid it's just wasteful to kill when his conquests can serve in misery as his slave-subjects instead, unless the death serves a greater purpose.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 00:57
|
|
|
McSpanky posted:Yeah, he specifically says as much in the Legacy fight when Superman calls out a punch for Dan Turpin. "If I knew the death of one mere human caused you so much pain I would have killed thousands!" To Darkseid it's just wasteful to kill when his conquests can serve in misery as his slave-subjects instead, unless the death serves a greater purpose. It's actually just 'more', 'thousands' would've been too much enthusiasm, Ironside rarely raised his voice as Darkseid. And yeah, Superman sometimes won the physical fight, but he still lost the battle. "I am many things, Kal-El. But here? I am God." I know they wanted a third season/were relatively sure a Justice League show would happen, but the BALLS to have that be the finale.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 01:47
|
|
|
Gaz-L posted:I know they wanted a third season/were relatively sure a Justice League show would happen, but the BALLS to have that be the finale.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 02:00
|
|
|
Gaz-L posted:It's actually just 'more', 'thousands' would've been too much enthusiasm, Ironside rarely raised his voice as Darkseid. And yeah, Superman sometimes won the physical fight, but he still lost the battle. Hell He did not even really win that fight physically he got his rear end kicked. When Darkseid was about to finish him off he put his hands in front of his eyes causing Darkseid to fry himself with the Omega effect. If Darkseid had not picked Superman up he would have died. It's kind of a shame the only reason Darkseid became weaker was because he became more popular so people wanted to use him more.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 02:03
|
|
|
Timeless Appeal posted:Another season was a possibility, but Justice League show as we know it was definitely not a sure thing. Warner Bros. really wanted Timm to make a Justice League show about Batman training young heroes. That would have been pretty whelming.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 02:48
|
|
|
jscolon2.0 posted:That would have been pretty whelming. My favorite case of Timm and Co having to battle WB's high concept mandates was when they basically said, "We're making Future Batman. You can either do it, or we'll get someone else to do it." And Timm and Co just groaned and were like, "Fine. We'll do it and make it amazing. Goddamn." I really cherish my teen years spent on ToonZone with Bruce Timm coming in and posting little tidbits like that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 03:19
|
|
|
Timeless Appeal posted:Another season was a possibility, but Justice League show as we know it was definitely not a sure thing. Warner Bros. really wanted Timm to make a Justice League show about Batman training young heroes.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 03:24
|
|
|
Maybe it was just because of Darkseid being a giant in JL:War, but I kept on thinking I'd rather be watching the X-Men fighting Apocalypse. Also, the Flash came off as the most mature and level headed out of all the heroes, which is kind of weird.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 05:27
|
|
|
TwoPair posted:Counterpoint: Every episode of Superman The Animated Series and/or Justice League where Darkseid appears pretty much always turns into Superman punching Darkseid a lot and all those episodes are awesome. That's not a counter-point. There's much more to both of these scenes than Darkseid getting punched, which is what makes those scenes awesome, which Justice League: Origin and Justice League: War both lack. Justice League: Origin is literally just an extended sequence of fight sequences with some of the most god-awful, cookie cutter dialogue threaded throughout it. There's nothing near as imposing or emotive as Darkseid's retorts to Superman or Superman's anger and anguish, or their long-running hatred of one another. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with people punching Darkseid, but when that's all the story has going for it, your story sucks and you do both characters a disservice. More and more it just seems to me like The Sinestro Corps. War was Johns getting really, really lucky. Shirkelton fucked around with this message at 09:21 on Jan 26, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 07:57
|
|
|
Speaking of the Sinestro Corps, they're also kind of dumb. Sinestro amasses a bunch of slobbering psychopathic monsters who pillage and destroy when they don't have their master to muzzle them - does he seriously plan to bring his vision of order to the Universe with these guys? I always felt that Sinestro should recruit people who resembled him: ruthless but also refined and disciplined, like a cosmic version of the Schutzstaffel. That's a problem with all these new Corps Johns invented: they have no real mission statement, no direction. What are the Red Lanterns doing anyway now that Krona and the old Guardians are dead?MonsterEnvy posted:It's kind of a shame the only reason Darkseid became weaker was because he became more popular so people wanted to use him more. Baron Bifford fucked around with this message at 10:25 on Jan 26, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 10:16
|
|
|
Baron Bifford posted:I'm not to sure about this. I've been flipping through the original New Gods series by Kirby, and Darkseid never gets into a fistfight and never faces Superman. He's always a behind-the-scenes manipulator. I can definitely say that his Omega Beams power has been weakened, because he has successfully teleported Superman in later books. I checked stuff out. Guy was pretty close to being unbeatable pre crisis. I also prefer him being the behind the scenes kind of guy as it helps sell him as the ultimate evil.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 10:46
|
|
|
Vakal posted:Also, the Flash came off as the most mature and level headed out of all the heroes, which is kind of weird. This can really be attributed to the Flash being Barry Allen now and not Wally West. Barry is the most boring super hero ever created.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 17:16
|
|
|
E the Shaggy posted:This can really be attributed to the Flash being Barry Allen now and not Wally West.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 17:24
|
|
|
Baron Bifford posted:Speaking of the Sinestro Corps, they're also kind of dumb. Sinestro amasses a bunch of slobbering psychopathic monsters who pillage and destroy when they don't have their master to muzzle them - does he seriously plan to bring his vision of order to the Universe with these guys? I always felt that Sinestro should recruit people who resembled him: ruthless but also refined and disciplined, like a cosmic version of the Schutzstaffel. That's a problem with all these new Corps Johns invented: they have no real mission statement, no direction. What are the Red Lanterns doing anyway now that Krona and the old Guardians are dead? I believe his idea was destroy the GLC first, worry about actually policing the universe later. And if you're gonna go just fight the Green Lanterns, might as well recruit some crazy motherfuckers. These days, the Reds concern themselves with policing the universe through extreme 90s-esque force.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 18:14
|
|
|
TwoPair posted:I believe his idea was destroy the GLC first, worry about actually policing the universe later. And if you're gonna go just fight the Green Lanterns, might as well recruit some crazy motherfuckers. These days, the Reds concern themselves with policing the universe through extreme 90s-esque force. And is loving awesome  Seriously, why don't give all the lantern family to Soule? Dude's gonna be writting most of the big two titles later this year anyways  The thing I'm more bummed about having the N52 on animated form is than we never got that SCW feature 
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 20:03
|
|
|
I hope someone's already made a gif of Green Lantern attacking Darkseid only to get smacked into a building, then immediatly getting the curb stomped into him by parademons.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2014 02:27
|
|
|
TwoPair posted:I believe his idea was destroy the GLC first, worry about actually policing the universe later. And if you're gonna go just fight the Green Lanterns, might as well recruit some crazy motherfuckers. These days, the Reds concern themselves with policing the universe through extreme 90s-esque force. Sinestro's plan wasn't to destroy the GLC at all actually. He created the Sinestro Corps in order for some of the stipulations of the Green Lanterns (like their inability to kill) to be lifted, to make them the police force they were meant to be. He was always expecting to lose.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2014 03:04
|
|
|
I finally watched JL:War and it was pretty entertaining (I liked more than the original comic in fact), the voice cast was fine once than I heard more of them and the whole thing about crude language was overblown and kind of makes sense in context. The thing it DID bothered me was the league killing Parademons left and right, I'm drawing a blank about other options to deal with them but the whole thing felt wrong somehow, another weird thing I noticed were odd editing choices since it seemed than the movie was cut for TV and they added that editing for commercial breaks. Entertaining movie but certainly one of the poorer of the lot. JLA:Trapped in Time on the other hand is really weird. The whole thing is a callback to the superfriends but it doesn't mix the ideas that well, the designs are odd and the voice acting on the latinamerican dubbed (couldn't find a subbed one) version is awful. Maybe is a good time waster for kids, though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2014 05:44
|
|
|
TheHan posted:I hope someone's already made a gif of Green Lantern attacking Darkseid only to get smacked into a building, then immediatly getting the curb stomped into him by parademons. Overall, I didn't like War very much, but that part was genuinely hilarious. I was surprised by how much I liked Green Lantern in it. He's usually the boring one. His voice actor actually had pretty good comedic timing, so that probably helped. I haven't read too much New 52, but it looks like Superman got screwed. Dumb costume, rear end in a top hat personality, and a stupidly wide face.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2014 06:43
|
|
|
Professor Wayne posted:Dumb costume, rear end in a top hat personality, and a stupidly wide face. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2014 07:22
|
|
|
TheHan posted:I hope someone's already made a gif of Green Lantern attacking Darkseid only to get smacked into a building, then immediatly getting the curb stomped into him by parademons. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2014 07:32
|
|
|
E the Shaggy posted:Sinestro's plan wasn't to destroy the GLC at all actually. He created the Sinestro Corps in order for some of the stipulations of the Green Lanterns (like their inability to kill) to be lifted, to make them the police force they were meant to be. He was always expecting to lose.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2014 09:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 20:04 |
|
|
Oh man. Just something about those parademons just sliding in and punching him is hilariously cheap.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2014 09:24
|
|