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After seeing Caprica, I really wished that was the sort of tone Enterprise had taken. "Enterprise" wouldn't have been the name of the ship, but the actual concept of putting forth people and resources in towards the goal of getting to the stars. An Earth that exists before the utopia of TOS/TNG where there's still some political, social and industrial conflicts left to play out not just with newly discovered aliens, but with ourselves. How would one of the biggest industrialists on Earth deal with learning they're a very small operation compared to something like an Orion Shipyard. The East and West each still competing over their own interplanetary policies in dealing with aliens. Etc.
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Jan 26, 2014 05:59
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The marketing for Enterprise was pretty bad in terms of appealing to Trekkies. "See this guy here? He came before Kirk, so he's better than Kirk, and every other captain! SCOTT BAKULAAAAAA"
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Jan 26, 2014 06:02
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Before Janeway... Before Picard... Before Kirk... There was... Another white male operating from a position of extreme privilege! *Archer's Theme rocks out*
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Jan 26, 2014 06:05
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If Enterprise had featured Peter Weller's character as an untouchable, powerful Lex Luthor figure throughout the series, I probably would have liked it better.
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Jan 26, 2014 06:05
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Outside of Admiral Robocop and John Paxton, Peter Weller should have played more characters in the ST universe, like Kurtwood Smith and Gregory Itzin.
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Jan 26, 2014 06:23
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Before Janeway... I always thought it was hilarious how they hastily released a re-edited version of that teaser with Sisko's name added back in when fans bitched online. I wonder if that might have been the only time that fan outrage genuinely affected the show.
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Jan 26, 2014 06:26
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Tighclops posted:I always thought it was hilarious how they hastily released a re-edited version of that teaser with Sisko's name added back in when fans bitched online. I wonder if that might have been the only time that fan outrage genuinely affected the show. Considering how it looks when you forget to add in the only not-white captain you had in the series I'd say the "bitching" was completely warranted. In the same vein of things but something totally nitpicky, not worth complaining about, and also not Star Trek, Rockstar released a trailer for Max Payne 3 that described the Colt 1911 as an "old favorite" despite not ever appearing in the series before #3, fans quickly reminded them of this and they changed it to an "old classic."
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Jan 26, 2014 06:35
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JediTalentAgent posted:After seeing Caprica, I really wished that was the sort of tone Enterprise had taken. "Enterprise" wouldn't have been the name of the ship, but the actual concept of putting forth people and resources in towards the goal of getting to the stars. I think this was actually the original plan for the show. The first season or so was supposed to take place on Earth dealing with Human/Vulcan politics while the Enterprise was being built, but the Executives said no, they wanted the ship out in episode one. In a way, the Enterprise's first flight was a good metaphor for the show. Going out into space before it was ready.
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Jan 26, 2014 07:05
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RaspberryCommie posted:In a way, the Enterprise's first flight was a good metaphor for the show. Going out into space before it was ready.
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Jan 26, 2014 07:11
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Ah yes, good old Voyager "Message in a Bottle", where one hologram asks another hologram to add a dick to his program. Because if there's one a thing an emergency medical hologram would be designed to have, it's a sex drive. 
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Jan 26, 2014 10:19
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JediTalentAgent posted:You could probably run into Young Chang or have the Cardassians be a threat in the new timeline due to Klingon and Federation being weakened by massive fleet destruction. Of course it's possible the Federation only knows of the drink/Cardassians through trading intermediaries, like a Silk Road type thing. The real one, not the Tor one. Scudworth posted:Ah yes, good old Voyager "Message in a Bottle", where one hologram asks another hologram to add a dick to his program. Edit: Look at it go! You drive that saucer section little guy! 
Knormal fucked around with this message at 11:45 on Jan 26, 2014 |
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Jan 26, 2014 11:38
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Terra Prime is absolutely the final episode of Enterprise. No disagreement shall be brooked in regards to this topic. I've been reading the Enterprise re-launch Novels and I'm surprised at how well they salvaged 4x22.
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Jan 26, 2014 12:42
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Knormal posted:This is from way back, but I'm behind on this thread. They apparently have already had some contact with the Cardassians in the new timeline, at one of the bar scenes in the '09 movie someone orders a "Cardassian whiskey" or something like that. It was one of my first "uh oh" moments with regard to how the new movies were going to treat canon, i.e. namedropping out of context.  Actually DS9 already established that Cardassians were known to the Federation by at least the 23rd century, if not earlier. We know from Destiny (the one where they try to set up a communications relay through the wormhole) that Tobin Dax knew a Cardassian:DS9 3x15, Destiny posted:DAX: I prefer the serialist poets from the First Republic, like Iloja of Prim. He's easily my favourite Cardassian writer. We don't know exactly when Tobin Dax lived but we know he was the second host and the host before Emony Dax. We also know from Trials and Tribble-ations that the Dax symbiont had already passed to Emony by the time she met a young Leonard McCoy, before he became a doctor: DS9 5x06 Trials and Tribble-ations posted:DAX: My host at the time was Emony. She was on Earth judging a gymnastics competition. I had a feeling he'd become a doctor. So Tobin must have already met Iloja of Prim and died before McCoy had even entered medical school. This suggests first known Cardassian contact with the Federation must have been quite a few years before the launch of the original USS Enterprise, maybe even the 22nd or 21st century. Of course this Cardassian was in exile, so maybe he travelled quite far before he ended up in Federation space and was seen as a curiosity at the time, but it still gives us evidence for Cardassians interacting with the Federation fairly early on.
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Jan 26, 2014 13:45
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I could get that, too. You might also have species like Trills and Betazeds on the fringe of TOS-era Federation space, but they could have had knowledge of species beyond their borders that the core Federation hadn't encountered, yet. In addition, the slower rate of warp travel in that era could limit a viable exploration, communication, trade or combat with such extremely distant cultures. But know I remember how crazy people got when the Ferengi showed up on Enterprise and the whole, "How could we never know about them in pre-TNG era, but ENT era meets them?!" Or the whole, "How could Seven's parents have heard about the BORG so soon?!" Which, to me, almost makes me think the idea of the borg were sort of the space version of a bigfoot that intrigued a Federation Fortean Times crowd.
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Jan 26, 2014 14:09
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Thom12255 posted:I've been reading the Enterprise re-launch Novels and I'm surprised at how well they salvaged 4x22. What, by ignoring it and retconning everything away? Yeah, yeah, that'll do it.
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Jan 26, 2014 15:06
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JediTalentAgent posted:Or the whole, "How could Seven's parents have heard about the BORG so soon?!" Which, to me, almost makes me think the idea of the borg were sort of the space version of a bigfoot that intrigued a Federation Fortean Times crowd. This is why the Enterprise episode with the Borg doesn't bother me. They were practically a 22nd century UFO sighting.
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Jan 26, 2014 18:15
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JediTalentAgent posted:Or the whole, "How could Seven's parents have heard about the BORG so soon?!" Which, to me, almost makes me think the idea of the borg were sort of the space version of a bigfoot that intrigued a Federation Fortean Times crowd. I was more impressed that Seven's parents, being stupid enough to bring a child along to a family Borg watch, managed to get themselves into the Delta Quadrant.
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Jan 26, 2014 18:51
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Scudworth posted:Ah yes, good old Voyager "Message in a Bottle", where one hologram asks another hologram to add a dick to his program. As much as I'll poo poo on the Voyager writing staff, I'm pretty sure there was an intentional "hey there's some unanticipated emergent behavior happening" thing going on with the EMHs. Voyager's EMH wasn't designed to sing and dance or to have those urges either, but he eventually did anyway. Cobalt Chloride posted:I was more impressed that Seven's parents, being stupid enough to bring a child along to a family Borg watch, managed to get themselves into the Delta Quadrant. The Borg weren't purely Delta Quadrant though. Q Who suggests that the Borg ripped up some UFP/Romulan Neutral Zone border outposts, and the star system Q flung the Enterprise into was "only" a couple of years away at top speed from a starbase. I mean, sure, the big Borg spacebase? Yeah that's way the hell away. But a cube can wander wherever the gently caress it wants to go.
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Jan 26, 2014 21:04
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Speaking of the Borg, do you guys think the next movie is going to do that? They're the only big "iconic" villain not yet shown. On the other hand we haven't really had a Klingon character yet, just some mooks who get gunned down. I'm kinda leaning towards Borg. They can play up the space ~zombies~ angle, Sulu can pull out the sword again. They can even have Nimoy pop on screen again and say "they are the ~ultimate threat~". Also because they're just Borg/zombies you can mow them down by the dozen and it's okay! Maybe they bribe Patrick Stewart a huge amount of money to be Locutus; you know everyone would be spazzing out at that.
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Jan 26, 2014 21:15
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It would be cool if only for the massive nerd rage over it.
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Jan 26, 2014 21:21
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The real question is, "Who gives a crap what they do after the first two movies?"
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Jan 26, 2014 21:28
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Mogomra posted:The real question is, "Who gives a crap what they do after the first two movies?" I'm kind of hoping for a Star Wars prequel kind of situation here, in the sense that the second movie was a big, steaming turd and Lucas finally showed up and gave us a film that's at least in the same league as the original movies. Given my luck, though, the first one will be the best and the third will be some kind of Jurassic Park 3-level hilarious failure.
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Jan 26, 2014 21:31
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I'm kinda leaning towards Borg. We find out that the Borg are actually the JJTrek crew that crossed over into our universe.
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Jan 26, 2014 21:35
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Mogomra posted:The real question is, "Who gives a crap what they do after the first two movies?" It really sucks, but he's right 
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Jan 26, 2014 21:41
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Mogomra posted:The real question is, "Who gives a crap what they do after the first two movies?" Considering it made $400million+ worldwide, sits on 72 points at Metacritic and 87% on Rotten Tomatoes, with 7.9 out of 10 and 90% favourable user ratings respectively, the answer would be "quite a few people, actually." My brother and his partner had never seen anything that was Star Trek ever prior to Into Darkness, and they said they really enjoyed the movie. That's who the movies are going for. No one who matters gives a gently caress about a bunch of weirdos and gently caress-ups, which includes a disproportionate number of confirmed kiddie-fiddlers like our buddy childfucker Aaron (and probably shitloads more that we don't know about. poo poo, I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out he wasn't the only paedoscum that posted in these threads). Appealing to the kind of crowd that we are yields poo poo like Voyager, Nemesis and These Are The Voyages, which, might I remind you, was a "love letter" to the fans. There's a reason why the last televised series of Star Trek was cut short, that there's hasn't been any Star Trek on TV outside of reruns for almost a decade and there's a 7 year-gap between Nemesis and the 2009 Star Trek movie. And yes, I am perfectly aware of the irony of me saying this. edogawa rando fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Jan 26, 2014 |
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Jan 26, 2014 22:00
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Vagabundo posted:Considering it made $400million+ worldwide, sits on 72 points at Metacritic and 87% on Rotten Tomatoes, with 7.9 out of 10 and 90% favourable user ratings respectively, the answer would be "quite a few people, actually." No but you see the JJTrek movies are an utter failure because
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Jan 26, 2014 22:17
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The newest Star Trek movies have been hinting heavily towards a war with the Klingons, so I'm pretty sure we'll get something like that before we get the Borg. But then again, who knows. Maybe the Federation and those spunky Klingons will have to put aside their cultural differences and team up to defeat the larger threat.
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Jan 26, 2014 22:34
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DrNutt posted:No but you see the JJTrek movies are an utter failure because The first one was legitimately good, and made me really happy that I could say I liked Star Trek and people would think of something other than aging acting failures read third-rate sci-fi scripts fifteen years ago. It also got my brother into watching TNG, which he really likes as the sort of thing you turn on when you're alone in a hotel room hundreds of miles from home. I still enjoy watching it; my only complaint is that, well, it's all there is. It's two hours and I want more of it. The fan reaction is really summarized by that Onion headline: "Fans decry new Star Trek film as fun, watchable." When you take off your space glasses and see what those old movies look like to someone under twenty-five, you'll see they're pretty terrible. Even TUC, the film I thought would never age, is starting to show its spots. Into Darkness was fun in theaters, but even there you could see that the movie has glaring flaws as, you know, a movie. I still like to watch it because it's more Adventures of Kirk and Spock in Space. poo poo, if we were to tally the ratio of "good episodes" to "bad episodes" in any of the series, we'd be hard-pressed to hit the ratio they already have in these two films.
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Jan 26, 2014 22:41
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Oh, by the way, this is happening: And I'm loving stoked. quote:In Star Trek #29, coming January 29 from IDW Publishing, the U.S.S. Enterprise’s five-year mission continues under the command of Captain Jane Tiberia Kirk. You read that correctly: Captain Jane Tiberia Kirk. And her crew also includes Lt. Nnamdi Uhuro, Lt. Pavlona Chekov, Lt. Hikari Sulu, Chief Engineer Marjorie Scott, Yeoman Jason Rand and Lt. Commander Spock.
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Jan 26, 2014 22:43
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Gau posted:When you take off your space glasses and see what those old movies look like to someone under twenty-five, you'll see they're pretty terrible. Uh I am that and I think they're great/don't like JJTrek Gau posted:I'm kind of hoping for a Star Wars prequel kind of situation here, in the sense that the second movie was a big, steaming turd and Lucas finally showed up and gave us a film that's at least in the same league as the original movies. What alternate universe are you from?
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Jan 26, 2014 23:04
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Sash! posted:This is why the Enterprise episode with the Borg doesn't bother me. They were practically a 22nd century UFO sighting. Not mention horror stories from the El-Aurian refugees like Guinan who wander into the Federation in the late 23rd century.
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Jan 26, 2014 23:12
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Farecoal posted:What alternate universe are you from? Revenge of the Sith is, at its worst, just a movie with bad dialogue and some poor directorial choices. It looks pretty good next to the giant turd that Lucas took with Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones. Like, I don't even understand Episode 1, why does it even exist? There's nothing in either of the two movies that draws from it, except "Anakin left his mother on Tatooine." "Basically, he is a slave kid. He gets found by the Jedi and he becomes part of the Jedi Order and that he loves his mother. You know, that's maybe a half hour movie. And so I did a kind of jazz riff on the rest of it..." - George Freaking Lucas. Gau fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Jan 26, 2014 |
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Jan 26, 2014 23:12
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Tony Montana posted:It really sucks, but he's right I don't think the crowd that really enjoys these movies and knows nothing about the franchise beforehand can really be said to "care" about them either, at least nobody I know who fits that description is hyped up over a hypothetically compelling story in the next sequel. I suppose that's why they're structured the way they are, built around action sequences first while constructing any kind of rational or satisfying narrative tends to come second. It works for the Transformers movies, after all. Then again with the notable exception of certain serialized TV shows over the past few years, I've noticed that most "normal" people don't really seem to give a gently caress what the media they consume is about. Hell, even I do this with some things; I like that new James Spader show because it's fun watching him be an arrogant rear end in a top hat to everyone, but I couldn't tell you what it's about even though I've been watching it since it started. Something about the FBI being incompetent, I think. I also think it's kinda sad the way some people blame the fans (as horrible as they often are, even taken as a whole) for Voyager and Enterprise and Nemesis when there are a host of a reasons why those things sucked as much as they did that had nothing to do with trying to appeal to people who at the time were typically screaming at the producers to grow some balls and do something interesting. The fans are an easy target, but I don't think the result of burned out or overall crappy producers/writers and meddling from disinterested and ignorant network executives can be completely pinned on gunning for them. Certainly not when the blockbuster model has become so profitable as to make geek-pandering an afterthought left for somebody's marketing and licensing divisions.
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Jan 26, 2014 23:14
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DrNutt posted:No but you see the JJTrek movies are an utter failure because The worst that's going to happen when the next Star Trek movie is released is this: a bunch of impossible-to-please neckbeards are going to pay money to see it, probably on opening day and probably on the largest possible screen like an IMAX one, probably more than once, and then they're going to go home, log on to the internet and bitch about it. Who loving cares?
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Jan 26, 2014 23:18
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Gau posted:Revenge of the Sith is, at its worst, just a movie with bad dialogue and some poor directorial choices. And awful acting. And an over reliance on special effects that look dated now. It is nowhere near as good as the original movies. Vagabundo posted:Appealing to the kind of crowd that we are yields poo poo like Voyager, Nemesis and These Are The Voyages, which, might I remind you, was a "love letter" to the fans. There's a reason why the last televised series of Star Trek was cut short, that there's hasn't been any Star Trek on TV outside of reruns for almost a decade and there's a 7 year-gap between Nemesis and the 2009 Star Trek movie. Yes the reason Voyager and Nemesis were bad was because they were trying to appeal to nerds and not because of a lazy writing staff and heavy executive interference. Don't let me stop you being horribly bitter about anything related to "nerds" though!!!
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Jan 26, 2014 23:32
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Farecoal posted:Uh I am that and I think they're great/don't like JJTrek
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Jan 26, 2014 23:42
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Vagabundo posted:The worst that's going to happen when the next Star Trek movie is released is this: a bunch of impossible-to-please neckbeards are going to pay money to see it, probably on opening day and probably on the largest possible screen like an IMAX one, probably more than once, and then they're going to go home, log on to the internet and bitch about it. Who loving cares? I'll likely still see the next Trek film, too, but only if the trailers and the word of mouth maybe make it look like it's worth watching. Now, even if people are calling it poo poo on the internet, you bring up a good point: WHO is calling it poo poo and why. If I'm on the fence about NuTrek3 and I'm reading the kneejerk fandom reaction that feel more like they're focused in on nitpicking little things than the film as a whole, then I'll still probably give it a chance because even if it didn't appeal to them, it still might appeal to me.
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Jan 26, 2014 23:43
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JediTalentAgent posted:Now, even if people are calling it poo poo on the internet, you bring up a good point: WHO is calling it poo poo and why I'd much prefer it if they just stuck to world health
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Jan 26, 2014 23:48
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Gau posted:Revenge of the Sith is, at its worst, just a movie with bad dialogue and some poor directorial choices. It looks pretty good next to the giant turd that Lucas took with Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones. Like, I don't even understand Episode 1, why does it even exist? There's nothing in either of the two movies that draws from it, except "Anakin left his mother on Tatooine." All of the Star Wars prequels are completely awful. The 3rd on has more action than the first two, and doesn't pretend to be as politic, but it is still an awful awful movie. The dialogue is retarded, the acting is bad, the story is dumb, etc. There is nearly nothing redeemable about it. I mean, for crying out loud, one of the main characters dies because she has a broken heart. And lets not forget this:  I have higher hopes for the next ones, but only just barely. The last JJTrek removed most of the hope that I had.
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Jan 26, 2014 23:48
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STID is still terrible. Since they're keeping the writers for XIII, and I can't even trust reviews anymore, I'm cool with not watching it until it pops up on Netflix. I liked the '09 movie, partly because it still felt like they had some plans for the characters. STID was just a cynical, aggressively mediocre, collect-the-money-and-run production. (And whitewashing too.) STID actually made me understand the pit of nerd-rage against the '09 reboot, except for the part where trekkies continue blindly supporting the brand anyway. I'm just hoping the brand will eventually go back to the prime timeline post-VOY/NEM, and someone can make a decent serialized show. I know that's already setting the bar pretty high as sad as it is.
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