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Yeah I was aware of that design (and Volko seems to be aware of it too), maybe he doesn't want to re imagine the classic.
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Jan 11, 2014 00:13
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i have to bail on ADP today, sorry guys.
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Jan 11, 2014 18:10
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No worries, another time. Played a game of ADP today as the Taliban, main scenario (so 5 propaganda cards). Managed to win on end-game scoring by -2, the others were -5, -5 and -7, but it was pretty close throughout the game and could have swung for the Warlords if I hadn't played it right. Coalition would also have been closer if they had surged out earlier. Gonna post a pic up soon.
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Jan 11, 2014 21:25
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Sorry for the lovely image quality:
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Jan 11, 2014 23:10
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So yeah, just did the first patrol of KptLt Rossig, commanding U-42, an IXA class ship (I'm talking about the Hunters here). My first encounter is a small freighter (the Cassequel, a 4800 ton ship) escorted. It's night, I approach at medium range submerged and fire two torpedoes. Both hits and, predictably, both are duds. I decide not to re-engage since it doesn't seem worth it. Just my luck! Anyway, I continue the patrol and suddenly my crew spots something big in the horizon. It's the HMS Barham, a 33100 ton ship! It's night again, so I decide to do a night surface attack at medium range and release a full salvo of four torpedoes! The first two hit and the ship goes down! I dive, the escort start dropping depth charges, damaging my radio. They attempt to evade again and I manage to get away! I go back to port without meeting anything else. I have no words.
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Jan 17, 2014 22:46
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So yeah, almost through my first campaign of The Hunters and here's my thoughts: Stuff I like: - It's an experience generator (ala Queen of the Sky), but there are some choices to be made. The type of torpedoes to use, range, to wait for night or attack during the day, what torpedoes to use on which ship, deciding if to follow damaged stragglers or going around to find something more juicy and staying with the convoy. - Being hunted by the escorts is just so goddamn dramatic. You basically just keep on getting attacked again and again until you become undetected and with the increasing amount of damage it really builds up the drama. It really evokes those 'goddamn it just lease us alone!' moments that felt so vivid in Das Boot. - The results seem fairly historical so far. You can do some pretty cool things and patrolling different areas feels different enough (Atlantic patrol? Be ready to meet some convoys!) - The RPG-lite elements are good enough to keep you interested but not overwhelming. - The tables overall are easy to follow and the DRMs are clearly labelled and don't require you to check the rules to see what the conditions of the DRMs are. Stuff I don't like: - There's a 2d10 tables with values from 1 to 20. Reaaally... - Actually I lie, there are three 2d10 tables with values from 1 to 20. Also, there is no reason why the values in the middle should be more frequent. It's clear that the tables are meant to provide an even distribution, but they don't. I suggest finding a d20. - There's no cheat sheet with the entire turn order on it. It would have been nice instead of having to look into the middle of the rulebook. - There's a cheat sheet for escorted ships, but not for unescorted ones. Why? - Some rules are hard to find/are obviously missing from the cheat sheets. - There's so many goodamn tables. Overall I have to say that I really enjoy the game and I do recommend it, but some of the design choices make it feel just a tad unpolished. It's still the best experience generator this side of Queen of the Skies and (if you'll excuse the pun) blows both Silent War and Steel Wolves out of the water.
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Jan 18, 2014 02:41
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I've finished a second campaign now (VIIA, died on my final '43 patrol while returning through bay of biscay). Speaking of, that's the biggest piece of missing data. The Bay of Biscay date should be on the encounter table. I also think they should have swapped one side of each of cards 1 and 2 so I don't have to keep flipping the card over for the multiple rolls on 1) aircraft encounters 2) damage checks But yes, it scratches a lot of the same itches as SW/StW without the book-keeping, in exchange for the strategy part. Also, much cheaper and faster. FebrezeNinja fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Jan 18, 2014 |
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Jan 18, 2014 03:32
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So I decided to give Cuba Libre a solo spin tonight. I went with the government to try something different, and while I didn't get my rear end handed to me, I still lost by technicality to the Mafia. It took awhile to get use to, but I think I got it down pat. It was a very interesting game with M26 and the DR fighting it out amongst themselves on the East end of the Island leaving me with only 18 support, while the Mob has 7 open casinos and 32 resources. It was very tense game even solo.
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Jan 18, 2014 07:43
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I might give a solitaire game of CL a try, it does sound interesting especially since I really want to see how the government flowchart works. My first campaign of The Hunters has ended with me getting sunk in '43: those destroyers really don't relent and the damage really stacks up. Still, I got about 174k tons of freight so that's pretty good going. I really liked the IXA, it does suffer on crash dives but all those extra torps are a god-send. I'm still reluctant to use electric torps though, the steam ones are better, as long as you wait for night.
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Jan 18, 2014 15:25
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Is The Hunters completely solo, or can a second player get involved?
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Jan 18, 2014 15:54
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It's really a solitaire games, although there are some counters to allow two people to play at once, but there isn't really any interaction between the players.
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Jan 18, 2014 15:57
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Sup
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Jan 19, 2014 00:15
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Every time you mention Labyrinth I find it amusing that while we both agree the game is dicefesty, we disagree on which side really drives the problem. I think the Jihadists are actually less luck-based. For starters, they roll enough dice for the laws of statistics kick in at some point. More importantly, their rolling is manageable. Unless you really get your rear end handed to you, there should be plenty of 3- rolls - fair odds - to make, while the more stable countries can be dealt with events, swarmed by troops from nearby Magical Taliban Caliphate* or ignored, for the most part. Now, the USA simply has to diligently power through the stability rolls with little to stack the odds in their favor, but worst of all is forced to do the dreaded Prestige roll. Which, thanks to it's incredible swinginess, can pretty much make or break the game on its own and there's nothing one can do about it. * I, obviously, refer to the weird domino theory the game forces on you.
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Jan 20, 2014 14:52
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Tekopo posted:So yeah, almost through my first campaign of The Hunters and here's my thoughts: Thanks for the write-up! I absolutely adore QOTS (my avatar was supposed to be noseart for a PbP) and The Hunters seems right up my alley.
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Jan 20, 2014 15:57
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Lichtenstein posted:Every time you mention Labyrinth I find it amusing that while we both agree the game is dicefesty, we disagree on which side really drives the problem.
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Jan 20, 2014 21:43
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I just played through a game of The Hunters and I mostly agree that it's a great sub-flavored Queen of the Skies, but with more player control. The first patrol I ran, I managed to sink a 5000 ton freighter, but ran into nothing else. So far so good. On the second patrol, I was spotted by a plane right out of port, but managed to crash-dive before it do anything. I get to the patrol area and spot an 8000 ton freighter. Sank that with 2 eels no problems. On the last leg of the patrol off the British Isles, I run into the HMS Nelson and I'm blinded by the prospect of a 34000 ton prize and an instant Knight's Cross. I get in close and launch a surfaced night attack with all 4 forward torpedo tubes. Two eels miss, but two others strike true and the Nelson capsizes and sinks in less than 15 minutes. It was at this point that I realized that a combination of attacking a capital ship, using steam torpedoes and attacking from close range means the escorts are going to have a real easy time detecting me (need to roll a 5 on a 2d6 to escape!). Under a carpet of depth charges, the first thing to go is the diesel engines, followed by the periscope, then the dive planes, then the aft tubes, and the flooding just keeps increasing with each succeeding attack. Finally, after 7 rounds of depth charges, the flooding reaches critical levels. I'm forced to surface the boat, but I do manage to scuttle her before the Royal Navy closes in. Two short patrols ending some time in Oct 1939, with 47000 tons sunk.
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Jan 21, 2014 20:08
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Mostly? Any misgivings? I like to hear people's opinions, good or bad. About the only misgiving that I have is that sometimes it's a bit too easy to sink stuff (especially caps), but that's about it. If you stick to medium range it feels weird that you never get detected prior to attack either. Apart from that, that sounds pretty par the course in my eyes, I've had a similar experience on my first VIIA, where in my first four patrols I got a 2.5ker and then suddenly found a capital ship. And promptly sunk. On another note, I am planning to LP The Hunters because I think it will go down well in the LP forum. I know my fair share about U-Boats but would you be interested in filling the blanks and posting about historical tid=bits if I run it, gradenko?
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Jan 21, 2014 20:18
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If not him, then I'm sure someone else will fill in the blanks. Xenocides ran a pretty successful Silent War LP, and the LP forum loves the Silent Hunter series. It'll go over great, don't worry.
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Jan 21, 2014 20:23
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Tekopo posted:Mostly? Any misgivings? It may quickly wear out it's welcome due to repetitive nature I guess?
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Jan 21, 2014 20:31
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Tekopo posted:Mostly? Any misgivings? I like to hear people's opinions, good or bad. About the only misgiving that I have is that sometimes it's a bit too easy to sink stuff (especially caps), but that's about it. If you stick to medium range it feels weird that you never get detected prior to attack either. I'm glad I wasn't the only one who picked up on that! I did think it was odd that you couldn't ever get detected prior to launching torpedoes as long as you stayed far enough. I haven't encountered any convoys yet nor worked with a wolfpack, so I can't comment on those areas, but the other thing that stuck out to me was if the extra DRMs persisted across multiple combat rounds or not, like the ones for using steam torps and close range. I just assumed that they do persist because DRMs that only last 1 round are labeled specifically about it. I also couldn't make heads or tails of deck gun ammo: The board says "Ammo (10)", but the counter says "Ammo (2)", does that mean I put in 10 counters or 5? Does assigning 1 ammo counter to the attack mean I roll for hit/damage once or twice? On the realism front, I was wondering where the North Sea patrols were between Sep-1939 to Jun-1940 when your U-boat would be coming from Kiel/Wilhelmshaven instead of from the French coast. Sinking ships off the eastern coast of Britain and passing the Pentland Firth was kind of a big deal back then, but it's forgivable I guess if you just imagine Biscay is labeled something else for the moment. Otherwise the progression of Allied lethality seems appropriate. And yeah, I'd be down for adding historical fluff to an LP. Davin Valkri posted:If not him, then I'm sure someone else will fill in the blanks. Xenocides ran a pretty successful Silent War LP, and the LP forum loves the Silent Hunter series. It'll go over great, don't worry. steinrokkan has a chillingly encyclopedic knowledge of merchant shipping
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Jan 21, 2014 20:37
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gradenko_2000 posted:I'm glad I wasn't the only one who picked up on that! I did think it was odd that you couldn't ever get detected prior to launching torpedoes as long as you stayed far enough. I don't know why late war doesn't extend it out to medium or something. Presumably the DRMs persisting represent a better idea of your initial position and path. Yes the Ammo means 5 2-ammo pieces. You can fire one or two per round, rolling for each ammo expended. FebrezeNinja fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Jan 21, 2014 |
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Jan 21, 2014 21:31
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Yeah, I think that the DRMs persisting for range just mean that they are able to narrow down your position more effectively, with the same being said for steam torpedoes during the day. It's just a means for the game to be able to model the escorts knowing your position better. The thing that puzzled me during the day is that there is no DRM to hit for using steam torps during the day: I assume that it would be harder to hit a freighter if they can see the torpedo trail. Might be a bit in need of houseruling, really, but it's more minor issues to be honest. That's another thing, no freighter zig-zagging, even if for example you miss the initial volley with your deck gun. Overall though I really like the game and it does allow you to decide how much risk to take, unlike QotS.
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Jan 21, 2014 23:14
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Anyone want to play a COIN game on Vassal this saturday? I'm down for AA/Cuba/ADP 
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Jan 23, 2014 20:53
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I am so up for this.
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Jan 24, 2014 01:42
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Ugh i wish i could commit but i have a big presentation due monday. If I get my rear end in gear and have it done by saturday afternoon I would be in. Consider me a provisional yes but replace me if somebody who can commit comes along.
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Jan 24, 2014 04:29
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Played a game of Leningrad over the weekend. General sense on the forums is that it's heavily biased towards the Russkies and (we played without the balancing variant) that that's probably true, I played the Germans, and was definitely at least one full turn short of being able to get a major victory, and significantly more than one or two minor decisions short of a minor victory. It was fun, though, my very first hex n counter game. I'll hope to play more in the future, hard to pick those tiny chits up though. Need better nails. I also got a game of NT in, smashed as the Allies, still undefeated. Someday, someday.
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Jan 27, 2014 20:29
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I wish I could get games in of Napoleon's Triumph, I need to find someone with the same love for the game as me. Maybe one day, silvergoose, we'll meet. I'm still trying to find a simple hex and counter to get people started in the genre, wasn't there a Market Garden one that was fairly simple, along the lines of Battle for Moscow?
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Jan 27, 2014 20:44
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Paul Koenig's Market Garden games may be what you're thinking of. Incidentally, VPG recently released PK's Fortress Europe, covering the entire Western Front. Anyone played that or the old AH game it's supposedly based on?
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Jan 28, 2014 17:03
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Yeah, I think that's the one I was thinking of. Might grab a copy if I manage to find one (although, really, I think the crete scenario from NR2 is also a great intro game, really). A game modelling the entire western front actually sounds pretty interesting. Most of my knowledge of the western front seems to be subdivided into set-piece battles: Overlord, Bocage country, then there's a big gap until Market Garden, then the Bulge and subsequently the push into Germany. It never feels like a unified whole like the East Front seems to be, so a whole-of-the-front game would actually be interesting.
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Jan 28, 2014 18:32
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Part of that is probably because it's taking place over only 9 months, so the whole fighting on the western front is about the same period of time of one of the major Eastern Front operations. I'm not sure how well a full game would work either - you're not going to see any kind of Bulge offensive, and most of it is probably going to be primarily attrition combat around the German border until the Germans run out of troops
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Jan 28, 2014 19:31
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Fortress Europe is probably too big a game to be used as an introduction to anything, but it has some interesting things going on with it. There are other Western Front 1944 type games, but FE seems like the most sane of them all. The sudden death VCs seem actually quite interesting as well.
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Jan 28, 2014 20:16
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How does FE handle the reinforcement schedule? Does it attempt at all to constrict the fields of battle to be somewhat semi-historical?
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Jan 29, 2014 00:59
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Tekopo posted:How does FE handle the reinforcement schedule? Does it attempt at all to constrict the fields of battle to be somewhat semi-historical? FE's reinforcements show up at historical dates in england/africa or in germany. You get an amount of steps determined by the turn, though Germany can in late 1944 trade all future armor replacement steps to get all the remaining panzer divisions up to full strength. There are a lot of benefits to the historical landing beaches, they don't activate the whole german army, they let you use mulberries, and put you near some of your sudden death objectives.
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Jan 29, 2014 01:21
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So, technically speaking, you could attempt a landing in Calais or even something crazier like the Netherlands? What's the victory condition for germany? Just survive for longer than historical?
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Jan 29, 2014 12:39
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Tekopo posted:So, technically speaking, you could attempt a landing in Calais or even something crazier like the Netherlands? What's the victory condition for germany? Just survive for longer than historical? Yeah, you could try to land in Calais. It's a bit difficult because the landing combat is brutal. The Netherlands is also possible, but keep in mind that landing in the Netherlands activates the whole German army at once. Anywhere else, and German units only become active in a trickle(for the first month they have to trade units between military districts to make transfers). You can also land in the Bay of Biscay, but then you lose the benefit of the mulberry harbor. Also it's important to understand that the first landing has a lot more logistical support than the second. And, yeah, the VC for Germany is to hold a significant part of Germany itself at the end of the game, or get a sudden death victory.
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Jan 29, 2014 12:59
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I just found the hypest poo poo ever at goodwill for 3 loving dollars. Mother Fuckin' Struggle of Nations by that Avalon Hill, I've been scouring for board games every single time I walked into the local goodwill, finally found something worth picking up that is in relatively good condition. As far as I know these seem to be all the bits, unpunched. Awesome Awesome Awesome find. http://imgur.com/a/1tq2Z Threw up a gallery of the components, reading this Scenario Folder as soon as I post this. edit: And I am completely hurled out the window as it dawns on me that there should be 2 more folders marked "Rules" and "Charts" as I look at the first text heavy page of the Scenario Folder, that states I have read the rules already. PROTOSTORM!!! fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Jan 30, 2014 |
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Jan 30, 2014 05:42
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Have you been able to find those online? Wonder why they left everything untouched but took out the rules, probably they read them and decided to give up 
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Jan 30, 2014 14:39
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Tekopo posted:Have you been able to find those online? Wonder why they left everything untouched but took out the rules, probably they read them and decided to give up As hard as I tried they seem to be completely lost, or named under something dumb besides every searchable option of "The Struggle of Nations Rulebook". Doesn't help some people used the same name for a very very in depth print and play. I'd hate to toss the stuff now, since it is actually in really tip top shape, the pages aren't even frayed, paper is doing fine, the cut out boards are a little bent but that doesn't seem to be bothering the pieces. My last ditch effort was to email Hasbro and hope they somehow have this stuff lying around or some weird Avalon Hill addict digs up some spares who reads the email and just happens to work for customer service. If anyone wants what I am pretty sure is a semi complete copy of The Struggle of Nations minus the Rules and Charts Folders (the boards aren't particularly flat either, you'd have to remedy that with a lot of books, or running out and making a new copy of the map) I'd really enjoy trading it off for something you won't ever play again. I was really super psyched just to find a drat board game that wasn't trivia based at Goodwill, I'm fairly sure my partner would never pick the game up, although they were intrigued by the idea of having to study the section of history from the scenario book to get a better understanding of how to play. Also like, MAN, even though I have the supplies. Photo copying extra copies of these summary sheets for each game you play (or using a white board). Alternatively, if someone want to photo copy the books and send me a PDF or something that'd be great. PROTOSTORM!!! fucked around with this message at 11:15 on Jan 31, 2014 |
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Jan 31, 2014 11:13
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Post in the forum section? Did you look in the files section? This is for BGG.
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Jan 31, 2014 20:20
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silvergoose posted:Post in the forum section? Did you look in the files section? This is for BGG. Right It'd be smart to post on BGG as well, but I already checked the page, no files, and someone made a thread in 2012 about the rules, and came up with bubkiss. Best that could be done is to buy another copy at 15 dollars for its folders.
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Jan 31, 2014 20:41
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