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Cat Face Joe posted:My buddy's girlfriend is a huge moon landing denier. When pressed for a reason she claims there's a lot of convincing information out there. We were having a laugh about it the other day when he reveals he believes in loving chemtrails. I had to break it to him that moon landing denial is more legitimate since there was at least a reason to fake it (show those Reds who's best) while chemtrails is basically babby's first conspiracy theory. Could someone link me to a summary of the chemtrails conspiracy theory? I'm not clear on what it is.
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Jan 28, 2014 20:20
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Discendo Vox posted:Could someone link me to a summary of the chemtrails conspiracy theory? I'm not clear on what it is. The summary really boils down to: "The government is using mind control gas being dispersed by airplanes: Usually accompianed by a photo of blue skys from back in the fifties to a photograph of any given day that has trails all over the sky.
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Jan 28, 2014 20:24
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^they've expanded it to include global warming geoengineering now, which is just as funny.
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Jan 28, 2014 20:26
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"This flimsy capsule was home to 3 men on Apollo 11 - a mission that took 8 days including 21 and a half hours on the lunar surface. How much heat, fluid and oxygen is needed for 8 days of travel for 3 men? Space is EXTREMELY cold. Have you seen the SIZE of an oxgyen tank for an hour's dive? Does this capsule look big enough to hold enough oxygen for THREE men for 8 DAYS? What about its internal HE...AT - how was it POWERED - by what fuel? Again, is there enough storage space for THAT much fuel to provide heat? THINK about water too - how much water for 3 men for 8 days? Ideally, 2 litres of water is needed per person per day = 42 litres of water. Then, there's FOOD. What about radiation protection? There was NONE. This capsule is what they travelled to the Moon And back in, apparently." There's some really bad rear end engineering that took place in creating the Apollo program. To say what that jackass is claiming is true is really insulting to all of those involved on the engineering side, let alone the actual astronauts themselves. If he's so puzzled about it, wait till he figures out that the technology that made it possible for him to type his dumb rear end little rant was created by those involved in trying to get our  boys to the moon.
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Jan 28, 2014 20:32
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FuzzySkinner posted:
I want to know what specific piece of technology you're referring to because I'm drawing blanks here. Neither "computers" nor "keyboards" nor "Internet" were American.
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Jan 28, 2014 20:46
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Also, didn't only two men descend in the LEM and one stayed in the Command Module?
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Jan 28, 2014 20:46
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Discendo Vox posted:Could someone link me to a summary of the chemtrails conspiracy theory? I'm not clear on what it is. Here's a decent in-depth article on it.
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Jan 28, 2014 20:47
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Staryberry posted:I'm pretty sure this is the only way to deal with a moon conspiracy theorist. For anyone not familiar with what happened after, the guy sued Buzz for assault. The judge dropped the case. 
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Jan 28, 2014 20:49
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Dirty Job posted:So someone from my fencing school has some very interesting (read: gross) opinions on how women dress, feminism, personal responsibility, and rape. Namely that if you dress a certain way, you can expect to get raped because reasons, and it's all your fault because testosterone. I got about 2/3rds of the way through this and I got a serious vibe of 'men talking about feminism', and not I'm a good way. Even the feminist 'positive' folks are making extremely problematic statements and only the few women nearing the middle/end seemed to have a good background on feminism. There's so much about this exchange that's actually enraging. Seeing guys blather on about misandry to a harassment survivor is unsettling... Also, if boys really are rabid animals that can't control their impulses, they should be locked up. 'Boys will be boys' is no more an excuse than 'sociopaths will be sociopaths', but we don't let them run free after they murder someone.
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Jan 28, 2014 20:53
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Staryberry posted:I'm pretty sure this is the only way to deal with a moon conspiracy theorist. Honestly that's the most cathartic video in the goddamn world. That dickbag lured Aldrin to be filmed by saying he wanted to interview Aldrin for a children's television show. Let me rephrase that. He lied to Buzz Aldrin, a man who risked his life to advance science and discovery by exploring space, about wanting to interview him for a children's television show so he could accost him with a camera crew about conspiracy theories. Aldrin socked him right in the loving mouth, was not charged with anything, and I'm pretty sure he could've probably strangled that man to loving death in front of everyone there and not be put in prison.
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Jan 28, 2014 20:58
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Poizen Jam posted:I got about 2/3rds of the way through this and I got a serious vibe of 'men talking about feminism', and not I'm a good way. Even the feminist 'positive' folks are making extremely problematic statements and only the few women nearing the middle/end seemed to have a good background on feminism. Ugh. It's almost (with plenty of exceptions, mind) gotten to the point where "I am a feminist" coming from a guy is synonymous with "I know how to fight for women's rights better than women do". I've dealt with a guy like that, too - he refers to every sex-positive portrayal of women by women as "objectification" and "internalized misogyny", honestly thinks that his Ph.D. in French makes him more qualified to talk about women's issues than actual women (unless they also have doctorates, of course), and has actually told one of our mutual friends that she didn't understand the real problem when talking about sexualization of minors in modern media. Male "feminists" often need to get the same schooling in How To Be An Ally as allies for the rest of the causes out there: shut up and listen, help if you can, but do not take over.
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Jan 28, 2014 21:18
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Scruff McGruff posted:Also, didn't only two men descend in the LEM and one stayed in the Command Module? Also the areas that held their fuel, food, water, and breathable air were huge. Xombie fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Jan 28, 2014 |
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Jan 28, 2014 21:45
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Mo_Steel posted:Honestly that's the most cathartic video in the goddamn world. That dickbag lured Aldrin to be filmed by saying he wanted to interview Aldrin for a children's television show. The jury could just claim the footage looked fake.
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Jan 28, 2014 21:51
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Kugyou no Tenshi posted:Ugh. It's almost (with plenty of exceptions, mind) gotten to the point where "I am a feminist" coming from a guy is synonymous with "I know how to fight for women's rights better than women do". I've dealt with a guy like that, too - he refers to every sex-positive portrayal of women by women as "objectification" and "internalized misogyny", honestly thinks that his Ph.D. in French makes him more qualified to talk about women's issues than actual women (unless they also have doctorates, of course), and has actually told one of our mutual friends that she didn't understand the real problem when talking about sexualization of minors in modern media. Male "feminists" often need to get the same schooling in How To Be An Ally as allies for the rest of the causes out there: shut up and listen, help if you can, but do not take over. I've stopped calling myself a feminist proper for the same reason I don't call myself a physicist- While I am willing to learn about the topic and am very sympathetic to the goals, I don't have the breadth of rigorous background knowledge or education in feminist theory or literature to justify calling myself a 'feminist' in anything but the most casual sense. Instead, I'll listen and educate myself. I am an applied scientist in social psychology and generally know enough about group behaviour and sociocultural influences to see the legitimacy in it, but it just isn't my primary field of education and it's presumptuous to call myself one.
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Jan 28, 2014 22:04
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Tipping chat time again! An-cap moron just (smartly, because she would have spent her day finding new and inventive ways to call him a fuckface) ignored my mom and focused on arguing with me. Here's the whole thread.    I'm honestly just tired at this point, I was up far too late last night writing up poo poo on why this dude is a piece of poo poo and I am being worn down until the heavy weight of this guy being a disingenuous butthole. Magres fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Jan 28, 2014 |
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Jan 28, 2014 22:19
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clockwork sundial posted:It's time for a Classic Conspiracy Theory! Oh, yeah! I ran into one of those years ago. They gave me a link to pictures from the first Apollo missions and asked me questions which I just answered ("how is it that the window is glowing if they are in space?" "they are in a lighted room and the outside is dark, have you never seen a window before?"), and I think I eventually just blocked them. They were also a 9/11 Truther, of course. Poizen Jam posted:I've stopped calling myself a feminist proper for the same reason I don't call myself a physicist- While I am willing to learn about the topic and am very sympathetic to the goals, I don't have the breadth of rigorous background knowledge or education in feminist theory or literature to justify calling myself a 'feminist' in anything but the most casual sense. Instead, I'll listen and educate myself. I am an applied scientist in social psychology and generally know enough about group behaviour and sociocultural influences to see the legitimacy in it, but it just isn't my primary field of education and it's presumptuous to call myself one. Since when do you need deep academic credentials to present yourself as having a certain political position? I didn't know there were certification exams for being a leftist, or a Democrat, or whatnot.
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Jan 28, 2014 22:28
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Man, maybe there should be though. Some part of me that is optimistic about humanity hopes that if people found out just how goddamned far the GOP has ridden the crazy train, they might start voting D (I know, it's a terrible idea that would get abused horribly  )
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Jan 28, 2014 22:30
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Magres posted:I'm honestly just tired at this point, I was up far too late last night writing up poo poo on why this dude is a piece of poo poo and I am being worn down until the heavy weight of this guy being a disingenuous butthole. You could point out that it's not uncommon for someone to be fired the first time that their wage + tips doesn't equal minimum wage. I've known a couple people who have worked management in the industry who have told me that at their places of employment, it was policy to terminate after X number of times that the employer had to make up the difference. So by not tipping at those places, you are literally saying "I hope you get fired". It's one thing when you're not tipping because you received such utterly poor service that you do, in fact, hope the person gets fired; it's another to not tip on "principle" because you don't give a gently caress about people. EDIT: I had a friend who worked at a place that had a policy of "three complaints and you're fired". Her manager didn't care if the complaints were valid, or even physically possible, and they counted "no tip" as equivalent to a complaint. If memory serves, that's actually why they fired her - she'd had two complaints, only one of which was remotely valid (the kitchen had overfilled a serving dish and it toppled on the uneven surface of the table), and then got fired for not getting a tip some months later. Kugyou no Tenshi fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Jan 28, 2014 |
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Jan 28, 2014 22:33
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Who the gently caress doesn't tip their barber!?
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Jan 28, 2014 22:34
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Boywhiz88 posted:Who the gently caress doesn't tip their barber!? People with terrible haircuts. The cause and effect relationship is murky.
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Jan 28, 2014 22:35
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Absurd Alhazred posted:
Nope, and that anology is pretty obtuse. 'Leftist' and 'Democrat' are political positions almost exclusively, not academic fields (although they may be informed by academic fields). Feminism is more than a political position, it's an entire field of academia that I'm admittedly ignorant of. I've had discussions, arguments, read wikipedia, and tangentially studied it through my research on bigotry and social groups. But I don't have a 4 year degree in gender studies/feminist theory, and I am woefully under-read in feminist literature and philosopy. Which is why I said I'm 'not a feminist in anything but the most casual sense', but support them nonetheless. I think it's presumptuous to identify, officially, as a feminist in the same way its presumptuous to identify as a physicist after spending a few hours on Wikipedia's 'theoretical physics' category.
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Jan 28, 2014 22:37
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That's why I don't call myself a communist without a PHD in Marxism.
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Jan 28, 2014 22:37
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Fandyien posted:That's why I don't call myself a communist without a PHD in Marxism. Ah yes. Obama's degree.
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Jan 28, 2014 22:39
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As usual when a follower of the Free Market Gospel has their bullshit "get a better job, then" refuted by the unemployment rate, they just deny unemployment exists. I guess everyone just coincidentally got really lazy at the exact same time as a catastrophic market crash and grueling recession. Hm.
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Jan 28, 2014 22:44
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Fandyien posted:That's why I don't call myself a communist without a PHD in Marxism. No but you'd probably laugh at somebody identifying as such after a half hour crash course in socialism. I think you're misconstruing what I said- I do identify as a feminist in a casual sense, but I was responding specifically to a post about men 'identifying as feminists' who presume to lecture women (and educated feminists even) about feminist issues. This is dangerous, and I explained why I felt this way. There's literally a story I read in the feminist thread about a man lecturing a feminist author at a party over the content of a book she wrote. This is a problem, and there are far too many people who self identify as 'feminist' and exemplify little to no understanding of it. PoizenJam fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Jan 28, 2014 |
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Jan 28, 2014 22:44
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As long as Poizen Jam is an ally to the feminist movement, I don't think it really matters what s/he calls her/himself. But don't ask me, I'm just a girl.
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Jan 28, 2014 22:44
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Poizen Jam posted:Nope, and that anology is pretty obtuse. 'Leftist' and 'Democrat' are political positions almost exclusively, not academic fields (although they may be informed by academic fields). Feminism is more than a political position, it's an entire field of academia that I'm admittedly ignorant of. I've had discussions, arguments, read wikipedia, and tangentially studied it through my research on bigotry and social groups. But I don't have a 4 year degree in gender studies/feminist theory, and I am woefully under-read in feminist literature and philosopy. Which is why I said I'm 'not a feminist in anything but the most casual sense', but support them nonetheless. I think it's presumptuous to identify, officially, as a feminist in the same way its presumptuous to identify as a physicist after spending a few hours on Wikipedia's 'theoretical physics' category. As someone who does have a four year degree in Women's and Gender Studies, I think this is really silly. Call yourself what you want, but the fact that you're self aware enough to understand that listening is the most important thing 90% of the time tells me that you're more than capable of using the label if you want. Many of my peers (who were, perhaps obviously, overwhelmingly financially stable young white women) didn't even really take that to heart if we started talking about complex issues like feminism in pre-industrial nations, or would shift uncomfortably in their seats when the older black woman in our classes started talking about how her experiences didn't match up to theirs at all. I'd never demand any of my friends study the topic, especially formally since that suddenly places a lot of financial hurdles in the way, to call themselves feminists if they actually listened and contributed productively to a conversation - it isn't your fault if someone hears you, someone I assume is a man, call yourself a feminist and instantly equate you to a Nice Guy who is just Asking Questions or whatever.
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Jan 28, 2014 22:48
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Poizen Jam posted:Nope, and that anology is pretty obtuse. 'Leftist' and 'Democrat' are political positions almost exclusively, not academic fields (although they may be informed by academic fields). Feminism is more than a political position, it's an entire field of academia that I'm admittedly ignorant of. I've had discussions, arguments, read wikipedia, and tangentially studied it through my research on bigotry and social groups. But I don't have a 4 year degree in gender studies/feminist theory, and I am woefully under-read in feminist literature and philosopy. Which is why I said I'm 'not a feminist in anything but the most casual sense', but support them nonetheless. I think it's presumptuous to identify, officially, as a feminist in the same way its presumptuous to identify as a physicist after spending a few hours on Wikipedia's 'theoretical physics' category. I have a similar view for myself. I support feminist causes, but I don't identify as a feminist because I am woefully inadequate in representing the feminist ideals. This leads to a problem when actually discussing feminism. There are people that will hand wave away the credentials of a woman who has spent a good chunk of her life studying and honing their knowledge on the subject, and substitute her opinions with their preconceived notions of what feminism is. When you try and say, well perhaps your understanding of the issue isn't on the same level as the individual that has chosen to make it their career, 9 times out of 10 you hear some shitthatdidnthapen.txt retort. I've always found that the dismissal of feminism as an academic focus is difficult to combat, and when it happens there is little more you can do at that point. It's no different than someone dismissing the knowledge of physicist and misrepresenting physics with pseudo-science. Trying to point out their dismissal is unlikely to be a constructive effort. Heck Yes! Loam! fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Jan 28, 2014 |
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Jan 28, 2014 22:49
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Countblanc posted:As someone who does have a four year degree in Women's and Gender Studies, I think this is really silly. Call yourself what you want, but the fact that you're self aware enough to understand that listening is the most important thing 90% of the time tells me that you're more than capable of using the label if you want. Many of my peers (who were, perhaps obviously, overwhelmingly financially stable young white women) didn't even really take that to heart if we started talking about complex issues like feminism in pre-industrial nations, or would shift uncomfortably in their seats when the older black woman in our classes started talking about how her experiences didn't match up to theirs at all. I'd never demand any of my friends study the topic, especially formally since that suddenly places a lot of financial hurdles in the way, to call themselves feminists if they actually listened and contributed productively to a conversation - it isn't your fault if someone hears you, someone I assume is a man, call yourself a feminist and instantly equate you to a Nice Guy who is just Asking Questions or whatever. I appreciate the response, and at this point I think I'm really discussing a vocabulary issue. For instance, when it comes to climate change, I'd identify as an 'environmentalist' but certainly not a climatologist. I find The same kind of division doesn't exist for supporters of feminism and those educated in feminist theory/philosophy- 'feminist/feminism' is kind of used interchangeably for both the movement and the field of academia. So while I won't presume to identify as a feminist the same way I wouldn't presume to identify as a climatologist, I can identify as one in the same way that I identify as an environmentalist- I'm interested, willing to listen, and have a vested interest/concern for the subject, but no formal or rigorous education in the subject.
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Jan 28, 2014 22:56
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Boywhiz88 posted:Who the gently caress doesn't tip their barber!? People in countries where it is not common to tip the barber? The US is pretty unusual in the sheer variety of instances where you are expected to tip. Poizen Jam posted:I think you're misconstruing what I said- I do identify as a feminist in a casual sense, but I was responding specifically to a post about men 'identifying as feminists' who presume to lecture women (and educated feminists even) about feminist issues. This is dangerous, and I explained why I felt this way. There's literally a story I read in the feminist thread about a man lecturing a feminist author at a party over the content of a book she wrote. This is a problem, and there are far too many people who self identify as 'feminist' and exemplify little to no understanding of it. I do appreciate what you are trying to communicate here, and I've seen (and done  ) this quite a few times. What I find even more disheartening is seeing very strong-minded and independent women, friends of mine, resolutely reject the label of "feminist" because of their treatment by the self-proclaimed paragons of that movement. As in, women lecturing other women in how their independence is not feminist enough, or how they would realize their oppression if they just read the right books or whatnot.
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Jan 28, 2014 22:56
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Poizen Jam posted:I appreciate the response, and at this point I think I'm really discussing a vocabulary issue. That's completely fair, and I'm sorry if I came across as harsh. I have friends and peers with identical views but half of which use "ally," just because they're more comfortable with it. Granted, some of that is because they're afraid of being seen as a radical by their non-feminist friends, but most are for exactly the reason you explained.
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Jan 28, 2014 23:00
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I do appreciate what you are trying to communicate here, and I've seen (and done This is actually something that happens in sub-cultures (I am not sure if that's the right word to use) Take a look at the one of the old lesser evil voting threads. Endless posts of holier-than-thou progressives telling others how they aren't true progressives because of X. I think its a no true Scotsman fallacy that just happens to make it's way into people's thought process. People go so wrapped up in identity politics that they morph the meaning of things to fit their preconceived notions. Anyone that doesn't fit those preconceptions is just dismissed.
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Jan 28, 2014 23:04
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Countblanc posted:That's completely fair, and I'm sorry if I came across as harsh. I have friends and peers with identical views but half of which use "ally," just because they're more comfortable with it. Granted, some of that is because they're afraid of being seen as a radical by their non-feminist friends, but most are for exactly the reason you explained. I used to identify as 'ally' but lately some feminist think tanks, blogs, and discussion groups I attend suggest that term is carrying its own baggage these days.  I want to make it expressly clear that my opposition to identification has nothing to do with the word 'feminism' itself as some folks seem to. It's hilarious when men object to the word 'feminism' and suggest 'egalitarian' because they're so terrified of being described with a 'feminine' adjective. Completely undermines their identification as a so called egalitarian too.
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Jan 28, 2014 23:08
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Magres posted:Tipping chat time again! An-cap moron just (smartly, because she would have spent her day finding new and inventive ways to call him a fuckface) ignored my mom and focused on arguing with me. Here's the whole thread. "Dude, tipping is asinine but stop trying to make it out like you're on some moral crusade against tipping when in reality you're just being cheap and think you have a right to not have to pay for your food. Your food is artificially cheap because it's assumed you will tip a decent percentage of what your bill was, so if you can't or won't throw down at least 15%, you're too loving poor to go out to eat" Just reply with that response. I mean you can think tipping sucks, but to pretend like you're in the right by not tipping is just some self masturbatory excuse to be a cheap rear end in a top hat. Also, in regards to job hunting http://www.businessinsider.com/wal-mart-receives-23000-applications-2013-11
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Jan 28, 2014 23:21
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BraveUlysses posted:^they've expanded it to include global warming geoengineering now, which is just as funny. Funnier, even, since that's technically true. VitalSigns posted:As usual when a follower of the Free Market Gospel has their bullshit "get a better job, then" refuted by the unemployment rate, they just deny unemployment exists. "I looked online just now and there were like 50 jobs on the first page!" *fails to notice that 49 of those are outside your ability, zero-hour contractor poo poo, or outright scams*
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Jan 28, 2014 23:22
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Amused to Death posted:Also, in regards to job hunting oh noooooooo :( walmart baby, we're sorry, we didn't mean it, please don't go, how will we live without you :(:(:(
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Jan 28, 2014 23:32
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BraveUlysses posted:^they've expanded it to include global warming geoengineering now, which is just as funny. Wait, I thought the global warming was caused by a change in the weather patters the government was causing with HARP?
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Jan 28, 2014 23:38
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I have a contribution of my very own! Immediately linked to the Snopes rebuttal and said it was irresponsible to spread this kind of stuff around. We'll see how that goes. Edit: Apparently this was posted so that I would comment with a rebuttal?  I did ask for a private message next time.
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Jan 28, 2014 23:39
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My favorite conservative friend immediately dismisses any snopes link because "it is run by a liberal couple and is biased". Even for questions of fact such as "did <celebrity> really say <thing>"
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Jan 28, 2014 23:45
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VitalSigns posted:My favorite conservative friend immediately dismisses any snopes link because "it is run by a liberal couple and is biased". Even for questions of fact such as "did <celebrity> really say <thing>" Apply the same smug dismissal to any Glenn Beck or Fox News link and see his reaction-
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Jan 28, 2014 23:51
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