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Welp. No time of death. Also fairly unclear information, especially on Ibuki. They also appear to be hinting that either Saionji or Ibuki's death wasn't in the killer's plans. Probably Saionji because she was obviously murdered while Ibuki looked like a suicide. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Jan 28, 2014 |
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Jan 28, 2014 22:49
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Maybe Ibuki was the one who murdered Saionji, and the murderer, the ghost of Koizumi, killed Ibuki in retaliation. Makes perfect sense.
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Jan 28, 2014 22:57
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 Ibuki didn't commit suicide, those are the rope marks of a strangulation. A hanging has the rope marks come under the chin and up behind the back of the ears.
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Jan 28, 2014 22:57
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Well, that's interesting that Monobear had the ability to cure Despair Fever so quickly. Sounds like more a poison than a disease with that knowledge.
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Jan 28, 2014 22:58
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orenronen posted:
Because they’re in VR. That’s my explanation and I’m sticking to it.
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Jan 28, 2014 22:59
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How can you just infect someone with a disease and cure them so easily...?
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Kuvo posted:
Well yeah, the Monobear File straight-up says 'strangulation' after all  I assume the markings shown on the file are more artistic license than accurate portrayals, though. We can't really see exactly how the rope went around her neck due to the bag.
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Jan 28, 2014 23:00
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Kuvo posted:
Pretty sure the game doesn't expect you to have intimate knowledge of hangings, man.
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Jan 28, 2014 23:11
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Well... I'm guessing neither murder took place at all recently. Saionji could have been dead for days and hidden inside the pillar, and Ibuki was probably killed early the night before, if that presumably misleading 'live' video call is to have any real point. Things are being set up to look like Ibuki killed Saionji and then herself while under the effects of the fever. Which means... that it's probably wrong on both counts. Feels like we're entering familiar territory with this case. The 'killer' might try and make a case that since Ibuki did both killings she should be the one convicted, not whoever gave her the orders. Peko couldn't make a case that her crime was not really her own doing since she did it for someone else. The killer might be trying something similar here- get Ibuki convicted on the grounds that she was the one to do the killings, and when Ibuki is wrongly convicted the killer gets off. That's how I see things generally playing out at least. I couldn't make anything better than a guess as to the culprit right now, but their methods point to someone, devious, opportunistic, and something of a coward... huh. Nice knowing ya Souda...
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Jan 28, 2014 23:13
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orenronen posted:
Fun fact: This first room of the investigation has by far the biggest filesize of all script files in the game.
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Jan 28, 2014 23:13
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There's so much to investigate in this room... Next time.
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Really like the direction Nanami,s character is taking. The despair from her death will be glorious 
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Jan 28, 2014 23:16
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Knicknevin posted:Well... I'm guessing neither murder took place at all recently. Saionji could have been dead for days and hidden inside the pillar, and Ibuki was probably killed early the night before, if that presumably misleading 'live' video call is to have any real point. That would add credence to the heat; if Saoinji had been dead for a couple of days, then the heat would likely mask the possible smell of any decomposition that would have occurred. And Tsumiki's guarding the crime scene again... if she was complicit in the killings then she could easily make up information to feed to the rest. quote:
And that's kind of sad.  Poor Monomi really wants to be friends, even if nobody but Sonia is nice to her.
ApplesandOranges fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Jan 28, 2014 |
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Jan 28, 2014 23:29
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Yeah! I'll bwing Nidai-kun back to you, and earn your twust!
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Saionji was almost certainly killed second because her murder was obvious. Ibuki is all set up to be a mystery and possibly faked and maybe she killed herself and Hinata saw 'her' hanging herself and so-on. Saionji just had her throat slit, bled out, and was tied to a wall. The latter implies a lot less planning and forethought. Either she killed Ibuki and then was killed herself or she saw Ibuki's murder and was killed to hide it. ApplesandOranges posted:And that's kind of sad. Considering that he was shot with a rocket he's probably going to come back as a brain in a jar or a beeping wheelchair or something and Monomi's going to be like "what, see, he's still alive! I helped!"
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Jan 28, 2014 23:32
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ApplesandOranges posted:the heat would likely mask the possible smell of any decomposition that would have occurred. Wouldn't it be the other way around? Heat would excite the gasses and accelerate decomp. I'm assuming the point of the heat has to do with Saionji's magically appearing corpse. Melted the adhesive holding up the false front or something along those lines. I have trouble wanting to suspect Mikan as well, if only because there were so many ways for her to have killed someone that weren't so... personal. With Ibuki and Saionji dead that whole 'clique' of (former) friends is dead but her. Feels like a red herring to me, but eh. Maybe I just want this case to really broadside me since the last two were a bit too easy for the collective to figure out.
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Jan 28, 2014 23:37
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Knicknevin posted:Maybe I just want this case to really broadside me since the last two were a bit too easy for the collective to figure out. Well, that's the thing. DR cases are not hugely complex because they're not designed to be played over a period of weeks/months by huge groups of people. They're designed for a single person to play quickly (and with action elements in the trial segments which encourage quick "gotcha" answers instead of slow-paced logical thinking because you have to aim-and-shoot with a time limit.)
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Jan 28, 2014 23:39
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I'd like to take a moment to look at the body discovery announcement. These are still made when 3 people discover a body. As far as I can tell the timeline goes: Hinata finds body 1. No announcement. This means only he and the killer have seen the body. Hinata runs for help, everybody comes in, finds body 2. Immediate announcement of both. From this, I have to conclude that Saionji did not see Ibuki's body, and that the killings could have happened separately. The bodies would have been brought together after the fact. This doesn't discount the possibility that more than one person saw Saionji's body beforehand (IE, she died first). With multiple people all coming in, an immediate announcement would have happened no matter what when finding her. I think the timing of the body placements is to conceal this fact as thoroughly as possible. Ibuki could have been a separate target or a witness at that point; Neither can be ruled out from the facts as I see them.
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Jan 28, 2014 23:48
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ImpAtom posted:Well, that's the thing. DR cases are not hugely complex because they're not designed to be played over a period of weeks/months by huge groups of people. They're designed for a single person to play quickly (and with action elements in the trial segments which encourage quick "gotcha" answers instead of slow-paced logical thinking because you have to aim-and-shoot with a time limit.) Yeah it'd be like if we were reading a phoenix wright LP. Like sure the culprit might be difficult to figure out in some cases for a single person, but for an entire forum of goons? In a long time span? It'd make any case look like it was completely obvious from the start.
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Jan 28, 2014 23:53
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Who What Now posted:Pretty sure the game doesn't expect you to have intimate knowledge of hangings, man. It doesn't take intimate knowledge of hangings to look at the way a corpse is posed after a hanging and realize that the noose doesn't make some kind of magical perfectly horizontal circle around the neck. The body slouches downwards so of course the noose angles up behind the ears.
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Jan 28, 2014 23:53
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Hokuto posted:I'd like to take a moment to look at the body discovery announcement. These are still made when 3 people discover a body. I always thought it was three people simultaneously have to see the body to get the announcement. Correct me if I am wrong on that.
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Jan 28, 2014 23:55
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mateo360 posted:I always thought it was three people simultaneously have to see the body to get the announcement. Correct me if I am wrong on that. Wasn't the case last chapter, or chapter 2 of the first game.
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Jan 29, 2014 00:05
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Hokuto posted:I'd like to take a moment to look at the body discovery announcement. These are still made when 3 people discover a body. Not sure if you can make this conclusion - assuming Saionji found the body, that would be 2 people who had seen the body not counting the killer (Her and Hinata). That is not enough to create an announcement. Meanwhile, when they bust down the door there is 4 people so it would create immediate announcements regardless of the previous discovery status - even if one of the four was the killer. Daunte Vicknabb posted:It doesn't take intimate knowledge of hangings to look at the way a corpse is posed after a hanging and realize that the noose doesn't make some kind of magical perfectly horizontal circle around the neck. The body slouches downwards so of course the noose angles up behind the ears. I'm torn on whether it's just a lazy depiction of a hanging on the part of the artists or something meaningful like you suggest. But I'd be inclined to agree with you because they usually don't flub it up like that and its very easy to hang someone who has been killed previously. PlaceholderPigeon fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Jan 29, 2014 |
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Jan 29, 2014 00:08
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orenronen posted:
I don't know whether to be glad this bloody disease won't affect the characters anymore or feel cheated that we won't have to deal with Nagito telling lies to throw off the player in court. That would be an interesting change in gameplay that wouldn't require new UI: quote:
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Jan 29, 2014 00:27
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Are you talking about the despair fever? Don't worry - I just ended it.
It appears that Mioda was stabbed in the neck and Saoinjii was strangled.
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Mulgar posted:I don't know whether to be glad this bloody disease won't affect the characters anymore or feel cheated that we won't have to deal with Nagito telling lies to throw off the player in court. Well, it's not like he hasn't been finding ways to interfere anyways. ImpAtom posted:Well, that's the thing. DR cases are not hugely complex because they're not designed to be played over a period of weeks/months by huge groups of people. They're designed for a single person to play quickly (and with action elements in the trial segments which encourage quick "gotcha" answers instead of slow-paced logical thinking because you have to aim-and-shoot with a time limit.) It could just be because my Japanese isn't that good or I suck at these games, but they were much harder to play then Orenonen makes them out to be. I know I got game over a couple of times before figuring out what to do on medium.
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Jan 29, 2014 00:44
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Apollove posted:Yeah it'd be like if we were reading a phoenix wright LP. Like sure the culprit might be difficult to figure out in some cases for a single person, but for an entire forum of goons? In a long time span? It'd make any case look like it was completely obvious from the start. Well, this game's cases are complex enough that it's often deep into the investigation before a consensus emerges. And there was one case in the first game, #2, that people didn't really suss out all the way until trial was underway (a couple people had it figured, but hadn't convinced the rest yet). There were still people arguing for a loooong time that Nagito killed Togami, and that Saonji was the culprit in the second case. As of yet, this case looks the most complex by not yet having a "fatal detail", ie. a clinching piece of evidence that points directly to one suspect. Case 1's was the actual cause of Togami's death (the skewer wounds), and case 2's was the water bottles in conjunction with Peko arriving at the diner wet. Is anyone here absolutely sure they know who the killer is at this point? I doubt it. And if they are they've probably been spoiled on it.
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Jan 29, 2014 00:44
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Ibuki, nooo. I was hoping for another metal song. 
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Jan 29, 2014 00:51
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Assuming no accomplices (and Nagito was incapacitated), it is physically impossible for Gundam or Nanami to be the culprit, since they couldn't get past Hinata to tear down the pillar or lock the door. This leaves four possible suspects: Mikan, Kuzuryuu, Souda and Sonia. Of these four, Kuzuryuu's the least likely, since as the game mentioned last update, he's still healing and in no condition to physically exert himself. And for someone who had her neck slit, Saionji's robes are oddly clean, with only a bit around her shoulder. This, alongside how her sash was tied on backwards would mean she was probably wearing something else when she died. If said something else was a hospital gown, then that means she was definitely the one we saw in the video.
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Jan 29, 2014 01:13
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Who What Now posted:Pretty sure the game doesn't expect you to have intimate knowledge of hangings, man. It doesn't take intimate knowledge of hangings to realize a noose would catch at the base of someone's jaw rather than the middle of the throat.
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Jan 29, 2014 01:45
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the_steve posted:Ibuki, nooo. As much as I like Ibuki, I think it'd have been really cool if she ended up being executed by death metal. Somehow.
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Jan 29, 2014 01:51
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Spatula City posted:Well, this game's cases are complex enough that it's often deep into the investigation before a consensus emerges. And there was one case in the first game, #2, that people didn't really suss out all the way until trial was underway (a couple people had it figured, but hadn't convinced the rest yet). There were still people arguing for a loooong time that Nagito killed Togami, and that Saonji was the culprit in the second case. As of yet, this case looks the most complex by not yet having a "fatal detail", ie. a clinching piece of evidence that points directly to one suspect. Case 1's was the actual cause of Togami's death (the skewer wounds), and case 2's was the water bottles in conjunction with Peko arriving at the diner wet. Is anyone here absolutely sure they know who the killer is at this point? I doubt it. And if they are they've probably been spoiled on it. It's gonna be Mikan man. Her comments on Mioda being asleep or not are suspicious as hell and no one else has a basis on which to know who would be where to witness the hanging video.
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Jan 29, 2014 02:47
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Knicknevin posted:
Like half his sprites are him freaking out like a DR murderer at the end anyway. If it turns out to be him, and my gut apropos of no evidence guesses he is, what even is he going to do when he gets convicted. The only funny thing to do out of character would accept it with quiet dignity, I guess.
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Jan 29, 2014 03:09
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Given there was specific mention of lowering the lighting rig with a simple control (instead of, say, climbing up and cutting the rope), it seems like Ibuki really could have been killed elsewhere and then just had her body raised up. The top three suspects have to be Souda, Sonia, and Mikan. Souda: Has the technical ability to set up the video and whatever else in the music club. Motive isn't too clear, other than he seems to be nervous about despair fever. Sonia: Seems most likely to create an elaborate death scene, given her knowledge of serial killers. Could have learned technical knowledge by flirting with Souda. Mikan: Had the most access to Ibuki and has been really off since the despair fever started. Her role likely will become obvious based on how much she contributes in the medical examination (I expect a contradiction will eventually be discovered if it is in fact her.)
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Jan 29, 2014 03:26
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I think Souda is the culprit. I think he used the video link to contact Ibuki when she was out and about on one of her walkabouts. It would have been pretty easy for him to spend his time keeping surveillance on the hospital since there's nothing else to do in the hotel. He's also the most technical person so probably the most likely to have set up the fake pillar (maybe even some device to raise and drop it). Abusing the camera system is also in his area of expertise. What I can't figure out is why did he kill Sainoji. . I suspect perhaps she had despair fever as well but we don't know what her symptoms were and somehow that factored into Souda's plan. Perhaps his plan was to kill Sainoji after discovering her despair fever symptom and then with the camera system and Ibuki's condition he killed her to add more confusion?
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Jan 29, 2014 03:43
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Stroth posted:It doesn't take intimate knowledge of hangings to realize a noose would catch at the base of someone's jaw rather than the middle of the throat. There's also the fact that if she died from the noose, she would have died of a broken neck and not strangulation.
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Jan 29, 2014 03:50
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orenronen posted:
There's a couple of reasons I can think of that could answer this question. 1. The killer was caught killing the first victim, and had to kill the second to keep them quiet. 2. The killer wanted to make it look like one victim killed the other, and then committed suicide. It's also possible that both are true: the killer ended up killing two people because they were caught in the act, and then decided to cover their tracks by making it look like a murder-suicide. However, there's still the question of why the heat was turned up. Since there's no time of death listed, it's possible that one of the murders took place some time ago. The heat would help to disguise whether the bodies were cold or warm, thus making it hard to tell how long it had been since the murder. Besides, Saionji had locked herself in her room, so it'd be difficult to verify when the killer got to her. It's possible that the culprit had already killed her, and then made it look like she was hiding in her room to buy time to set things up.
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Jan 29, 2014 03:57
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............
...What do you mean?
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Waffleman_ posted:There's also the fact that if she died from the noose, she would have died of a broken neck and not strangulation. That's what I was thinking. Hard to speculate too much off of this one - we didn't get tons of new information. Maybe once we get a closer look at the bodies or the scene or something.
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Jan 29, 2014 03:57
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Waffleman_ posted:There's also the fact that if she died from the noose, she would have died of a broken neck and not strangulation. Not necessarily. If the slack from the rope wasn't long enough and if she didn't weigh too much, she could easily have simply stepped off the ladder and asphyxiated that way. Actually, there are a few scenarios in which she could have asphyxiated rather than have her neck snapped, while still being hanged. She could have had the noose tied around her neck and the lighting rig be lifted before the noose was removed, she could have had no slack on the rope and had the ladder removed from beneath herself, or she could simply have not had enough force going down to snap her neck. The height of the drop plays into this heavily, as it is very commonly used to help determine the extent of the injuries to persons who are hanged. The markings are generally in the wrong place, but they do still cover the trachea, so it might just be a case of not giving away too much.
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Jan 29, 2014 04:07
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Waffleman_ posted:There's also the fact that if she died from the noose, she would have died of a broken neck and not strangulation. Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner! Exactly. Plus, "choke someone to death and then fake a suicide scene" is Crime Mystery 101. Even without the meta-knowledge, tho, I'm almost sure Ibuki was murdered because of the wording in the Monobear Report. ...Mikan is going to push for the suicide thing and figuratively hang herself in the trial, isn't she? God, I hope it's not that.
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Jan 29, 2014 04:09
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Wyvernil posted:There's a couple of reasons I can think of that could answer this question. Or the killer wasn't a perfectly rational murderer, and really, really wanted both Ibuki and Saionji dead by their own hand. Or they had a headful of crazy and weren't exactly thinking normally. Heck, it's entirely possible that Saionji's the culprit- she met up with Ibuki in the Titty Typhoon, and she had an outburst to the effect of 'I hate you! I wish I were dead! I wish you were dead!' and then Ibuki said 'Sir, Yes Sir!' and slit her throat in one go, then proceeded to creepy up the stage (because she's a metalhead) and hang herself.
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Jan 29, 2014 04:09
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Dias posted:...Mikan is going to push for the suicide thing and figuratively hang herself in the trial, isn't she? God, I hope it's not that. The fact that the time of death isn't listed and the cause of death is so unclear is basically setting up for her to lie, yeah, and the second she makes an obvious lie in the second we can eliminate any doubt she was the killer.
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Jan 29, 2014 04:10
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Waffleman_ posted:There's also the fact that if she died from the noose, she would have died of a broken neck and not strangulation. Actually, it is possible for a hanging to go wrong and the cause of death be strangulation. It doesn't happen often, but if the noose has too much rope the fall doesn't actually snap the neck and the person being hung is forced to choke to death.
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Jan 29, 2014 04:13
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ImpAtom posted:The fact that the time of death isn't listed and the cause of death is so unclear is basically setting up for her to lie, yeah, and the second she makes an obvious lie in the second we can eliminate any doubt she was the killer. Mikan is the only one who had real access to Ibuki so while I know Dangan Ronpa longs throwing curveballs when it comes to this case until this issue is resolved then it's going to be hard not to consider her a suspect, also she is the only person who has a real reason to want to see Hiyoko dead . Also the frequency of which she seems to be getting into awkward positions with Hinata does seem to indicate that the stress has been building up on her due to having to deal with patients who despite her vast abilities she can't cure so she definitely has the level of stress needed to snap and do real damage to somebody.
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Jan 29, 2014 04:23
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