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Parafin posted:They are going to have a hard time finding talented people to work for another company with Brad and Co. at the helm. Everyone in the development world remembers Sigil: the long, unpaid hours; the promises of a share of the profits; the sudden closure where many employees didn't receive final paychecks, just a "well this is it, we're done, thanks." Surprisingly, a lot of people actually in the industry are capable of looking at his entire career, and not just what happened with Vanguard. Especially seeing as he's just the CCO. Even making the assumption that he didn't learn a valuable life lesson from what happened with VG about not being a gently caress up, just because he's a terrible businessman doesn't erase the rest of his career in creative/design roles. Not to mention the careers of the other people involved. I doubt they'll really have all that much trouble.
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Jan 27, 2014 20:31
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Are we looking at different careers here? Even his website doesn't look that good.
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Jan 27, 2014 20:51
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Twitch about to start with Brad & Salim: http://www.twitch.tv/mmobuff
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Jan 27, 2014 20:59
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Twitch with the dungeon dude is supposed to start in a minute: http://www.twitch.tv/therobanddanshow
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Jan 28, 2014 00:59
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It is telling that despite repeated polite enquiries as to how this project will be different from vanguard and what controls they are putting in place to ensure proper management of the project they are staying tight lipped while coasting on a wave of nostalgia. This isn't like obsidian where they have a history of buggy messes that have a really good game at the core which shines after a few patches.
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Jan 28, 2014 03:19
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Byolante posted:It is telling that despite repeated polite enquiries as to how this project will be different from vanguard and what controls they are putting in place to ensure proper management of the project they are staying tight lipped while coasting on a wave of nostalgia. This isn't like obsidian where they have a history of buggy messes that have a really good game at the core which shines after a few patches. "Hey guys remember in everquest when the troll master killed the ogre master and the red dragon broke off peace talks with the elves? I DO!"
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Jan 28, 2014 03:36
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iminers posted:"Hey guys remember in everquest when the troll master killed the ogre master and the red dragon broke off peace talks with the elves? I DO!" Nagafen allying with Faydwer would have been pretty bad for the lesser races
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Jan 28, 2014 03:55
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Byolante posted:It is telling that despite repeated polite enquiries as to how this project will be different from vanguard and what controls they are putting in place to ensure proper management of the project they are staying tight lipped while coasting on a wave of nostalgia. This isn't like obsidian where they have a history of buggy messes that have a really good game at the core which shines after a few patches. It's also 1) only coming up because McQuaid's name is associated, and 2) not really relevant to the project because he's not in a role that makes it relevant. The amount of obsessing people are doing over him being involved is really a bit ridiculous. He's worked on a ton of projects that didn't spiral into a nightmarish morass of mismanagement, and as long as he's not functioning as President/CEO or CFO I don't really get why people keep assuming it'll go that route.
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Jan 28, 2014 04:02
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Flarestar posted:It's also 1) only coming up because McQuaid's name is associated, and 2) not really relevant to the project because he's not in a role that makes it relevant. It's the classic "I have an idea for a game, now I just need a programmer and an artist" line, except now it's "I have an idea for an MMO, now I just need a staff of a hundred to make it a reality."
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Jan 28, 2014 06:47
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And? I mean that's a lot of what Kickstarter is precisely for. In this case they at least have some small amount of pre-alpha poo poo available, which is better than a lot of Kickstarters I've seen. Starting coding before you have a pretty decent idea of mechanics, world, lore etc. laid out is a great way to lock yourself into bad design decisions anyway. Don't get me wrong, this has every chance of crashing and burning, I'm just saying that McQuaid is literally one of my least concerns with the project.
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Jan 28, 2014 07:17
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Byolante posted:It is telling that despite repeated polite enquiries as to how this project will be different from vanguard and what controls they are putting in place to ensure proper management of the project they are staying tight lipped while coasting on a wave of nostalgia. This isn't like obsidian where they have a history of buggy messes that have a really good game at the core which shines after a few patches. Yes, let us discuss the possible controls they could put into place. I think Brad McQuaid should be locked in his office from 9am to 5pm and only let out for bathroom breaks and a 30 minute lunch. Then your $20 will be safe.
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Jan 28, 2014 08:56
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Flarestar posted:It's also 1) only coming up because McQuaid's name is associated, and 2) not really relevant to the project because he's not in a role that makes it relevant. The only reason people give a poo poo about this kickstarter is also because Brad's name is attached. Come good or ill, we need to judge the project based on the track record of the people making the pitch. Saying 'remember EQ, well we want to take you back to that style of game but with modern improvements that won't make it a wow clone' is a great pitch and something the mmo market badly needs. The problem arises when the person making the pitch already tried this pitch in the past and ended up with a 40m black hole and firing the entire staff of the company abruptly in the carpark. This kickstarter is arguably even more idiotic than the average because if it does achieve it's funding goal there still is no guarentee the studio will ever even start work because this is being used as a way to try and show publishers or VC that there is a market and they should pay the dev costs. Those sort of people will ask the same sort of questions people in this thread are regarding the prior history of the people involved in the project.
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Jan 28, 2014 11:14
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Has this kind of "Give us enough money so that we can pitch it to VCs"-kickstarter already succeeded? The only one I can remember is the swordplay game one by Neal Stephenson, which had freaking Gabe Newell cameoing in its video, and they basically went "Welp, here's the alpha, we tried to get VC funding but it didn't work out, bye".
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Jan 28, 2014 16:03
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Grim Up North posted:Has this kind of "Give us enough money so that we can pitch it to VCs"-kickstarter already succeeded? The only one I can remember is the swordplay game one by Neal Stephenson, which had freaking Gabe Newell cameoing in its video, and they basically went "Welp, here's the alpha, we tried to get VC funding but it didn't work out, bye". https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1294225970/kingdom-come-deliverance Those guys are already getting VC because of thze Kickstarter. If they succeed is another thing.
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Jan 28, 2014 16:06
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Byolante posted:Come good or ill, we need to judge the project based on the track record of the people making the pitch. I agree. So judge it on his team's track record, instead of judging it the history of one game where all that was really proven is that McQuaid makes a lovely CEO. I know plenty of people that are great designers and developers that don't have a clue when it comes to running an entire business. I'm certainly not going to predict doom and gloom for an entire project when they aren't even filling that role, any more than I will here. The negativity over McQuaid reeks of bitter old game vet syndrome and ignorance.
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Jan 28, 2014 16:23
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Flare, like you, I'd love to play a MMO that was designed by Brad again. But this Kickstarter reeks of failure. The team as assembled doesn't have the talent to actually produce the game. They say so themselves. We can't even get art for races or classes. Kickstarter is NOT for "okay here's money now acquire talent that can do what you've promised". All that matters is a team's ability to execute, and they haven't shown us that. They have excellent ideas, but ideas don't matter. Just execution. Here's an interesting link on Kickstarter games and their success rate, from someone at Rerolled: http://evilasahobby.com/2014/01/18/kickstander-only-around-a-third-of-kickstarted-video-game-projects-fully-deliver-to-their-backers/ Again, I'd absolutely love for this to work out. But what I see is a group of 10 people who will pretty much burn through $800k (assuming it funds, obviously) while trying to find actual developers to write the game, because they don't have that talent with them currently. That twitch stream with Vu was painful to watch (what I could stomach of it, at least). He said "Unity is great for MMOs, I guess, I don't know." The team has no idea what they're doing, even if he's an amazing dungeon designer. TLDR: Parafin posted:It's the classic "I have an idea for a game, now I just need a programmer and an artist" line, except now it's "I have an idea for an MMO, now I just need a staff of a hundred to make it a reality."
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Jan 28, 2014 18:08
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Flarestar posted:The negativity over McQuaid reeks of bitter old game vet syndrome and ignorance. Old game vet syndrome might be because he hasn't done much of anything new. 2007 was vanguard, which was bad to most developers involved. 2010 was a co-founding of a start up for casual and social games that failed to find funding and ended in 2012. 2012 was joining SOE to relaunch Vanguard with a bad F2P model. 2013 was him switching to EQ1 and then leaving half a year later for this. I don't know where the ignorance comes from, since he hasn't done much since those old games. Speaking of F2P models quote:@Calidor You will need to purchase a copy of the game to play beyond a certain point. The "F2P" portion can be seen as more of a trial than it is a traditional free-to-play game. I'm expecting to see another EQ2 or Vanguard style F2P model that splits the player base and is aggressive towards the players asking them to upgrade now. Going to put money on there being a button that you can't remove saying GOLD MEMBERSHIP. EDIT: Going to throw this out here as well, I want to see another game by Brad. I enjoyed vanguard despite its bugs. I'm not going to back Pantheon and I doubt it will work. Third World Reagan fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Jan 28, 2014 |
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Jan 28, 2014 18:11
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quote:@Vextagora I'm not sure I understand your question, but I *think* I do. Anyone will be able to download the game and start playing. This will be the free portion. However, after you've played to a certain level or a certain amount of time (we haven't decided which yet), you'll need to buy the game in order to keep playing. If you pledge for multiple copies now, that means you won't have the level or time limit on those copies.
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Jan 28, 2014 18:48
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xZAOx posted:Flare, like you, I'd love to play a MMO that was designed by Brad again. I'd like to see a successful MMO by brad, but i doubt it's going to happen. The video was just a 100% stomach turning train wreck. "Unity is great for MMOs, I guess, I don't know." The gently caress is up with that? FreeWifi!! fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Jan 28, 2014 |
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Jan 28, 2014 19:43
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xZAOx posted:Flare, like you, I'd love to play a MMO that was designed by Brad again. Those stats are mostly meaningless though. There have over 4,000 funded video games but only 104 listed on kickstarter have had more than $150k funding and only 19 have received over $1m in funding, most of the games are lovely projects by nobodies. How many legitimate companies or people who have made large complex games have resulted in failed projects? You can't lump all the hacks in with the guys who know what they are doing. As to this project, he isn't going to fund an MMO with $800k, it would allow them to design and develop the game to the point it could get additional funding, it is unrealistic that they employ the whole team and start working on it. If they don't get the following or the interest on kickstarter they would have to re-evaluate the project, do some more research on the viability. They will more than likely reach their goal, not sure how far over it will go, but the game is estimated to be released in 2017, they have plenty of time post funding to find the staff they need. Most of these $1m+ kickstarters are long-term projects. Star Cizien was funded in November 2012, not even an MMO and it is nowhere close to being released, only had a goal of $500k, received $2.1m during the kickstarter campaign and has since reached $37m in crowd funding. Does this register as a failed project because it hasn't been released yet?
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Jan 29, 2014 12:33
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Star citizen isn't an example you should be using.
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Jan 29, 2014 14:00
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He only counted projects that had a projected release date by January 2014.
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Jan 29, 2014 14:12
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Third World Reggin posted:Star citizen isn't an example you should be using. Star Citizen shouldn't even be a thing.
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Jan 29, 2014 14:45
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Node posted:Star Citizen shouldn't even be a thing. Why not?
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Jan 29, 2014 18:16
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Anomaly?
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Jan 29, 2014 18:16
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The existence of Star Citizen can be used to make a pretty good inductive fine-tuning style argument for the existence of a nerd-loving God.
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Jan 29, 2014 18:50
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Thankfully that god doesn't exist or has promised way more than delivered.
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Jan 29, 2014 18:53
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Brad will be doing an AMA on reddit at 1pm PST today, so be sure to drop by with any questions you may have for him. I'll drop the link in here when he's live.
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Jan 29, 2014 20:07
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I don't know about this new game but I'm kinda disappointed that the title of the thread isn't "Brad McQuaid's next Vision for the MMORPG market."
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Jan 29, 2014 20:16
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Ceythos posted:Brad will be doing an AMA on reddit at 1pm PST today, so be sure to drop by with any questions you may have for him. I'll drop the link in here when he's live.
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Jan 29, 2014 20:19
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Republicans posted:I don't know about this new game but I'm kinda disappointed that the title of the thread isn't "Brad McQuaid's next Vision for the MMORPG market." "Brad McQuaid's New MMO. Nothing new here..move along.."
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Jan 29, 2014 21:54
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And it's up, hope to see you in the comments: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1whvd2/i_am_brad_mcquaid_one_of_the_creators_of/
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Jan 29, 2014 22:06
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While I don't like everything I'm hearing over there, and I'm very skeptical of this ever producing an actual game, I will give you guys credit where it's due - you're really trying to get the name out there, various twitch streams, engaging users on every forum I visit, reddit AMA, upcoming youtube interview, etc. And Brad's been doing the AMA for 2 hours now.
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Jan 29, 2014 23:59
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The guy who was on the VU stream with brad did some of my favorite parts of EQ2.
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Jan 30, 2014 00:34
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Third World Reggin posted:Star citizen isn't an example you should be using. I only mentioned Star Citizen because it is one of the projects that raised over $1m in kickstarter, most of those projects that raised significant funding haven't been completed yet. I just don't think you can compare the success ratio of larger projects with the low budget projects.
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Jan 30, 2014 01:15
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I think you don't get how comparisons work. It can be compared in every way. The success ratio for any project is still good. The success ratio for bigger budget projects may be a great thing to use, but we don't have that do we?
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Jan 30, 2014 01:24
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[–]AraduneMithara[S] 25 points 3 hours ago treestick: While we're making a challenging game, but you won't need to grind or camp or do a dungeon for hours on end. Most of Pantheon is designed to be played in 1-2 hour increments. So play for 1-2 hours and what... the game shuts off?
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Jan 30, 2014 02:15
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Shed posted:I continued to play my erudite enchanter and ended up meeting one of my irl best friends through that game. Aradune posted:Thank you! I am the other side of this equation so to speak. She's not kidding when she says that we met because of EQ. I moved to WI and we roomed together for a bit. I stayed in WI and actually went to grad school/found a couple of good jobs (one for 2 years, in the other now) as a result. We may not live super close anymore (Have a couple hundred miles between us), we still talk quite a bit! So EQ has been huge to me, to say the least. I may have wavered in and out of the game for most of my playtime, but many of my fondest MMO memories are from Everquest. From getting one of the first handful of Magician Epics on my server to helping to run a large set of Magician class forums way back in the day. But one of my favorite memories was when you and some of the Vanguard staff took some writers out to dinner at a steakhouse during E3 times (I think it was 2003, and I was working for MOG Magazine at the time, may have been 04. I distinctly remember that night because not only were the steaks great, but I remember you and some of the other developers there throwing money on the table to get one of the employees to drink a whole thing of hollandaise sauce. I may not be in journalism or games journalism at all anymore, but man, that was one of my favorite memories. Anyways, I'm seriously looking at dropping for the $250 for either the Paragons or Pathfinders pledge. Leaning towards Paragon, because I'd love the chance to be in early and help you guys craft a great game. Either way, though, I'm really looking forward to this. Glad that Shed directed me towards this thread. Hope you see this -- you guys created something great with EQ and I'm hoping that Pantheon can hit it big like that.
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Jan 30, 2014 02:19
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Third World Reggin posted:I think you don't get how comparisons work. I do get how comparisons work. You can only compare like with like, otherwise it is pointless. It is what I said, that comparison analysis is pointless. All it proves is low budget projects made by nobodies are not worth putting money in.
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Jan 30, 2014 02:31
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iminers posted:[–]AraduneMithara[S] 25 points 3 hours ago Take a break? But I'm guessing its not stopping you from player another hour or two.
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Jan 30, 2014 02:41
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