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Gau posted:Yes, sir! OMAHA! *ship does a barrel roll while firing phase cannons in all directions*
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Jan 31, 2014 17:47
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Doctor Butts posted:I always got the impression that Jadzia was a shell of a person, and the symbiotic had the dominant personality. Ezri was a fully realized person and was dealing with the addition of another set of life experiences. I do not think that was the way it was suppose to be. They always made it sound like two people became one. That they learned from each other. However, we never saw what Jadzia was like before the blending. So she just comes across as just a mismatch of other people.
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Jan 31, 2014 17:48
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Doctor Butts posted:I always got the impression that Jadzia was a shell of a person, and the symbiotic had the dominant personality. Ezri was a fully realized person and was dealing with the addition of another set of life experiences. In all my viewings of Deep Space Nine, I've never really understood how Joined Trill are supposed to work. The concept is pretty great and it seems like the Trill is intended to live their life as a regular person with the symbiote acting as a repository for all their experiences and giving the Trill a way to sort of beat death in a sense. Sometimes an especially forceful personality can have an affect on the Joined Trill (like Joran), but generally speaking the host is in control and supposed to live as they would have without the symbiote. The idea of the symbiote completely taking over the host's body and personality is just really creepy and alien to me, but at the same time the symbiotes are creepy aliens. Or maybe it's all intended as the host, the symbiote and the conglomeration of previous hosts gestalt into an entirely new personality each time a joining takes place. I'm talking way too much lately. VVVV Not that anyone was looking for an explanation, but the latter makeup change is easy enough to handwave away with "they're different subspecies". primaltrash fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Jan 31, 2014 |
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Jan 31, 2014 17:53
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They totally took over their bodies when they first appeared in TNG, but they later retconned it in DS9 so that it's a composite of the symbiote and host's personalities. They also changed how trill look, too. In TNG they had this forehead makeup, but in DS9 they changed it to spots because Terry Ferrel had a latex allergy.
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Jan 31, 2014 17:56
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Doctor Butts posted:I always got the impression that Jadzia was a shell of a person, and the symbiotic had the dominant personality. Ezri was a fully realized person and was dealing with the addition of another set of life experiences. Basically, if you had a drink for every time Jadzia referred to Curzon in some way, she'll be the last thing you remember before you die of alcohol poisoning.
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Jan 31, 2014 18:18
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Maybe the symbiote does take a dominant role, but it takes time to happen. It could be argued that Ezri's gained confidence through the last season is the result of the symbiote having a greater role in her personality. (I don't like this explanation, but it could be argued.) Do we know how long it's been between Curzon dying and us meeting Jadzia? If it's been long enough, her being so similar to Curzon could be explained that her natural personality has been suppressed so much.
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Jan 31, 2014 18:20
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Jadzia's only episodes about her were about her huge confidence issues and about how her entire life was devoted to becoming a host. Kurzon in particular was demeaning and insulting toward her and even while she was hosting him, for a long time she wasn't even sure if he liked her or wanted her to host him. Kurzon may be the dominant personality for her purely because her personality is "nervous host."
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Jan 31, 2014 18:24
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Hip-Hoptimus Rhyme posted:Maybe the symbiote does take a dominant role, but it takes time to happen. It could be argued that Ezri's gained confidence through the last season is the result of the symbiote having a greater role in her personality. (I don't like this explanation, but it could be argued.) Then just have loving Curzon as a character on the show then. I'm going to call bullshit on that explanation since Ezri actually had a personality.
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Jan 31, 2014 18:25
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And even if that explanation is true, it still makes for a lovely fictional character. Like, it's pretty clear that they were going for another Spock: intellectual half-relatable, half-alien with some odd little powers and encyclopedic knowledge. But the character fell so flat that they decided to make her a Klingon fangirl a few seasons in just to give her something to do. I mean, she's still just flat and uninteresting, which is miles above the clueless, arrogant creeper Bashir was until season four or so.
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Jan 31, 2014 18:35
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It seems like Curzon basically picked a successor very similar to himself, and who he wanted to bone.
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Jan 31, 2014 18:37
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Gau posted:miles above the clueless, arrogant creeper Bashir was until season four or so. I rewatched Crossover the other night because of Tony Montana's praise of it and it's amazing how much Bashir changes from early DS9. He's such an annoying prick to Kira the whole time they're in the shuttle, then asks her out. I guess the concept of negging is still alive and well in the 24th century.
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Jan 31, 2014 18:42
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The writing reason for it is that they had to use Jadzia to try and figure out how the host relationship works without actually showing you Kurzon, lest they be beladen with flashbacks, so she constantly has to mention Kurzon and act like Kurzon in order for them to get the point across, and with all of that, the writers didn't leave enough time for Jadzia to have her own personality. I haven't seen Ezri yet, but my guess is that, because we'd seen six seasons of Jadzia, they could play more with how the next host was different-yet-the-same without having to tell us about it over and over again.
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Jan 31, 2014 18:46
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I just got past two episodes today of DS9 that I've set to record. Chrysalis and Take Me Out to the Holosuite. I think I watched them in backwards order but whatever. Chrysalis was ...alright, Bashir being Bashir I guess. Not a bad episode. The baseball episode was pretty chill (except Sisko) which was nice for mindless watching. Although I'm sure one of the Vulcans is portrayed by the same actress that does the Romulan senator, the one who has the ice lolly thing and [spoilers]places the warheads on the hospital on earlier eps[/spoiler]. Not sure if I should spoiler, but not everyone has seen it so I don't want to spoil previous episodes.
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Jan 31, 2014 18:49
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Bicyclops posted:The writing reason for it is that they had to use Jadzia to try and figure out how the host relationship works without actually showing you Kurzon, lest they be beladen with flashbacks, so she constantly has to mention Kurzon and act like Kurzon in order for them to get the point across, and with all of that, the writers didn't leave enough time for Jadzia to have her own personality. Yeah, this basically. "I hate raktajino but my mind keeps tricking me into getting it."
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Jan 31, 2014 18:51
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I think the decision to make Sisko and Curzon old friends was a bad one. We never got to know Jadzia because half the time she was talking to Sisko she was talking/acting like Curzon. He even called her "old man" all the drat time. I get that the writers are trying to be cute "Get it? She's actually a young woman but he's calling her old man!  " but it left Jadzia without any room to grow.Now the Trill have that whole rule about not hooking up with past partners (Ezri saying to Worf after they hook up that he probably breaks a ton of Klingon rules all the time was awesome), so why don't they have a rule about not being best friends with your former best friend? Seems like that would also be "limiting" or whatever excuse they gave for the no-nooky rule.
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Jan 31, 2014 19:06
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WampaLord posted:I think the decision to make Sisko and Curzon old friends was a bad one. We never got to know Jadzia because half the time she was talking to Sisko she was talking/acting like Curzon. He even called her "old man" all the drat time. I get that the writers are trying to be cute "Get it? She's actually a young woman but he's calling her old man! From what I remember, you weren't supposed to have any connection to your previous life. However, likes most Trill rules, this was proved to be stupid and bullshit.
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Jan 31, 2014 19:09
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Hip-Hoptimus Rhyme posted:From what I remember, you weren't supposed to have any connection to your previous life. However, likes most Trill rules, this was proved to be stupid and bullshit. Trill continuity is kind of hilariously all over the place too, it's not just forehead ridges to spots. In the TNG episode, it seemed like the Federation didn't know anything about the symbionts, but clearly Sisko did. There was a lot of potential to be mined from the idea, but they seem so confused by it themselves that they never quite know how to deal with it and go a different direction every time that they do.
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Jan 31, 2014 19:21
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hey https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVWqsmKK9y8 e: god drat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ID-JWBl28W8
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Jan 31, 2014 19:56
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This entire video is a gold mine for great avatars.
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Jan 31, 2014 20:01
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My god, I think I still have the floppy discs of this somewhere... Every time our computer would turn off in 1995, it'd say "Good Luck Admiral". My parents might have started me young.
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Jan 31, 2014 20:03
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I remember that, complete with the random Riker in all his beardy wonder. Also, its not often you get ‘Suicide is Painless' rearranged for the cha cha.
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Jan 31, 2014 20:14
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I'm probably reading far too much into it but I think one of the few times you see Jadzia's actual personality, perhaps that one that Curzon knocked out of her during her Trill Training or whatever, was during the sixth season, in "You Are Cordially Invited." While she could occasionally be that kind of annoying, sassy type, in "Invited" she turns down right vindictive and petty. Not to mention the fact that despite apparently being her own kind of Klingon fangirl like Worf she does everything she can to sabotage her own wedding. Yeah, I'm sure noticing that the entire house is descended from some other noble's concubine and skipping the ceremonies you agreed to do to party is really going to be accepted graciously. The only reason to do something like that is be all  about it, prove that you're better. All because she doesn't want to humble herself just a little bit and do some traditions. Then she gets some sense talked into her by Sisko and it really does feel like that's Jadzia and Sisko talking, not Curzon and Sisko or something.Hard Clumping posted:hey https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVWqsmKK9y8 And these are the latest, greatest thing.
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Jan 31, 2014 21:42
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Dax is a cool character because she frequently brings up how she has been both a man and a woman, and this understanding of gender fluidity is part of what makes her easy going and 'free spirited'. Between that, the episode with Dax's previous spouse, and Quark's sex change; DS9 is the best Trek for Queer Empowerment.
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Jan 31, 2014 22:44
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The Quark's sex change episode is ultimately played for laughs and Quark decides to continue being a sexist pig at the very end, though.
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Jan 31, 2014 22:46
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Bicyclops posted:The Quark's sex change episode is ultimately played for laughs and Quark decides to continue being a sexist pig at the very end, though. Yeah it wasn't a great episode but it's the only time the writers directly state that space utopia medicine allows people to switch genders.
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Jan 31, 2014 22:56
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McDowell posted:Dax is a cool character because she frequently brings up how she has been both a man and a woman, and this understanding of gender fluidity is part of what makes her easy going and 'free spirited'. Dax is a cool character for being a smart woman who is down with getting down and is never villified for that; she's got years of experience but doesn't have to be a quiet, philosophical sage character about it; she's pretty and tears poo poo up and is never put in a position where her gender or sexual choices are "wrong," merely her own. Between her and Kira, DS9 has some of TV's best women ever made, even if they occasionally get written dumb.
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Jan 31, 2014 23:40
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Whalley posted:Dax is a cool character for being a smart woman who is down with getting down and is never villified for that; she's got years of experience but doesn't have to be a quiet, philosophical sage character about it; she's pretty and tears poo poo up and is never put in a position where her gender or sexual choices are "wrong," merely her own. Between her and Kira, DS9 has some of TV's best women ever made, even if they occasionally get written dumb. This was my impression of the character, and why I enjoyed her more than her replacement. I liked that she was OK with having had different genders and sexual orientations in the past, but also it was nice that Sisko could handle it too. They joke about it and sometimes it's a little weird for him, but seeing their relationship thrive despite this big change Kurzon/Jadzia went through is sweet. I sometimes wonder if it was meant to be a metaphor for people who transition, and if so that was pretty cool. By contrast, I'm still re-watching Enterprise (managed to make it through Cogenitor... barely  ) and what kills me is that the humans have attitudes towards sex and romance that are already square and out of touch by today's standards. It's like they all grew up in the 1970's and then someone (Daniels!  ) sent them into the future with a couple books on warp reactors and phase pistols.
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Feb 1, 2014 00:45
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Human standards were destroyed in the Eugenics Wars.
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Feb 1, 2014 03:46
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Mr. Horrible posted:By contrast, I'm still re-watching Enterprise (managed to make it through Cogenitor... barely Some of that's an unavoidable side-effect of having the earliest-set show made last. Trying to balance showing people as not being as refined as TOS-era humans just yet, but making the show in a time where TOS itself is more regressive than progressive. Or maybe it was just dumb and lazy and I just gave the writers and showrunners way too much credit.
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Feb 1, 2014 04:08
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Bicyclops posted:Jadzia's only episodes about her were about her huge confidence issues and about how her entire life was devoted to becoming a host. Kurzon in particular was demeaning and insulting toward her and even while she was hosting him, for a long time she wasn't even sure if he liked her or wanted her to host him. You know, I bet Jadzia was a boring, quiet nerd who did everything right and had no personality before she was joined with Dax, whereas Curzon was a clever, witty, randy guy with a huge ego before he was joined.
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Feb 1, 2014 04:09
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After Obama legalized gay marriage in 2015, the next logical step was to allow marriage to nuclear launch codes, inevitably provoking World War 3. Much like the Butlerian Jihad led to a ban on the development of thinking machines in the universe of Dune, so too did WW3 lead to the disruption and rolling back of any and all social progress regarding human sexuality. e: And yes, Jadzia was totally a loving nerd who never had any friends and never broke a rule in her life before being joined. That's why she's so... what, hedonistic? She bent her whole life as an initiate to being the perfect candidate and never got to live, so after joining and realizing how dumb that poo poo was, she's living it up as much as possible. Blade_of_tyshalle fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Feb 1, 2014 |
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Feb 1, 2014 04:09
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SombreroAgnew posted:It seems like Curzon basically picked a successor very similar to himself, and who he wanted to bone. Inserting your personality and memories into the person you want to bone is like the ultimate boning
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Feb 1, 2014 04:15
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Bicyclops posted:Trill continuity is kind of hilariously all over the place too, it's not just forehead ridges to spots. In the TNG episode, it seemed like the Federation didn't know anything about the symbionts, but clearly Sisko did. There was a lot of potential to be mined from the idea, but they seem so confused by it themselves that they never quite know how to deal with it and go a different direction every time that they do.
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Feb 1, 2014 04:53
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Now that so many years have passed, I think about how the trill could have been presented to further extremes than they were. What if the Trill worms were really the dominant and sentient minds and on their world humanoid hosts were pretty much seen as non-sentient cattle or wild animals, or have become vat-grown genetically-engineered bodies with only minimal brain development solely for the use as hosts. I could see them taking that in some disturbing Trek directions about the nature of intelligence, evolution, slavery, animal rights, etc. and made the Trill somehow a lot more uncomfortable to be around wearing a humanoid body like a suit. Sort of like the creatures from The Hidden, Edgar from MIB or the Goa'uld. edit: take it even a step further. To the trill, they consider their bodies less a 'temple' and more a 'rental'. They booze it up, eat extremely unhealthy stuff, partake in extremely reckless activities, etc. Trill burn through hosts through just sheer hedonism, and they don't care. JediTalentAgent fucked around with this message at 08:44 on Feb 1, 2014 |
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Feb 1, 2014 08:26
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Well, I got to the season 6 finale of DS9. Vic Fonatine consoling Quark. Lot of explosions, with the enemy weapon platforms hoisted by their own petard. Weyoun and Damar bickering as per usual. Dukat with dark god Dragonball powers. Worf grief scream. Quality Trek, looking forward to the last season.
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Feb 1, 2014 17:51
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I wish Picard had gotten down to some boogie instead of "something latin" in insurrection. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQm8MxgCGws
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Feb 1, 2014 18:58
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Ka0 posted:I wish Picard had gotten down to some boogie instead of "something latin" in insurrection. Considering how ridiculously square they are, "something Latin" might as well be Kool and the Gang to the TNG crew.
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Feb 1, 2014 19:04
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Something... latin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlr90NLDp-0
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Feb 1, 2014 19:07
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Geordi's Spanish guitar selection for the romantic dinners is the hippest* artistic taste of any of the crew. * hip may not apply after 1990.
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Feb 1, 2014 19:25
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Bicyclops posted:Well, I got to the season 6 finale of DS9. Vic Fonatine consoling Quark. Lot of explosions, with the enemy weapon platforms hoisted by their own petard. Weyoun and Damar bickering as per usual. Dukat with dark god Dragonball powers. Worf grief scream. Quality Trek, looking forward to the last season. You might say its the...holy grail of Star Trek
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Feb 1, 2014 20:05
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