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soapgish posted:Do you look at an actual stripper and think her misogynistic for how she portrays a woman? It's about a scumbag and the sordid types that cavort with him, which is a portrayal of people. Absolutely not. When the show portrays a porn star as a youth-obsessed woman who would ignore her own baby daughter in order to get laid, I think it's misogynistic to display a sex worker like that and that has nothing to do with Hank's treatment of her. For example.
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Feb 1, 2014 03:09
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Speaking of a show portraying sex workers, did Hung ever stop pretending that those kids were his biological children? I seem to remember the cast getting all bent out of shape because viewers assumed the kids had to be adopted. I mean, they had to be, right?
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Feb 1, 2014 03:16
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Rarity posted:Absolutely not. When the show portrays a porn star as a youth-obsessed woman who would ignore her own baby daughter in order to get laid, I think it's misogynistic to display a sex worker like that and that has nothing to do with Hank's treatment of her. For example. I find that asinine. Characters can be terrible without it speaking to the hearts and minds of the creators, just as me donating time to helping the homeless absolutely does not make me Christ-like. If Hank stepped out his front door and it was just women spread-eagle, that's a statement about women. But to allege that a deeply flawed individual having flaws and doing lovely things is some commentary on an entire gender is well beyond any sane approach. Every aspect of real life must be intolerably vile with such sensibilities.
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Feb 1, 2014 03:31
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Rarity posted:Absolutely not. When the show portrays a porn star as a youth-obsessed woman who would ignore her own baby daughter in order to get laid, I think it's misogynistic to display a sex worker like that and that has nothing to do with Hank's treatment of her. For example. The focus of the show though Is Hank, a broken, self-loathing type who turns to casual relations with various women to patch over his dissatisfaction with his life and his own self. I would not say that this makes him a misogynist as that would imply he disrespects or hates all women and he is shown to be very fond of women, including of course his ex-wife. He does endeavor to repair his relationship with his ex-wife although of course he fails repeatedly because of his self-destructive behavior. Though the other women he associates with are regularly shown to be very attracted to him and often willing to immediately sleep with him, they often are not interested in having a proper relationship with him and could be seen as using him in the same sort of way he uses them.
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Feb 1, 2014 03:33
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Wandle Cax posted:He does endeavor to repair his relationship with his ex-wife although of course he fails repeatedly because of his self-destructive behavior. This is a good description of every single season of Californication.
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Feb 1, 2014 03:55
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ufarn posted:It's just a plain bad show. Not much to it. I have no idea how the show got 8 loving seasons, then again it is showtime.
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Feb 1, 2014 05:06
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Poor Helix thread, it's only the fourth week of the show, it's pinned, and not a single new post.
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Feb 1, 2014 05:51
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Rarity posted:I just started watching Californication with a friend. Is it me or is this a misogynist male jerk-off fantasy? I watch Californication, and I don't think that's an unfair assessment. It is pure male power fantasy. The guy is a tortured genius, works when he wants, and fucks everyone. And the ex-wife is perfect, and basically waiting around until he grows up. In the meantime, he does whatever he feels like, and everyone loves him because he is such a genius. It's a very simple show, I don't think there's any significant insights into the human condition.
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Feb 1, 2014 05:55
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savinhill posted:Poor Helix thread, it's only the fourth week of the show, it's pinned, and not a single new post. I've been watching the show but I've actually been enjoying it while people in the thread seem to be mostly... not.
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Feb 1, 2014 05:56
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Rarity posted:Absolutely not. When the show portrays a porn star as a youth-obsessed woman who would ignore her own baby daughter in order to get laid, I think it's misogynistic to display a sex worker like that Unless I'm misunderstanding you, taking this stance would lead one to avoid a great deal of art. You wouldn't be able to read Irvine Welsh, because portraying Scottish junkie schemie men would somehow become misandrist, despite the fact that they, like your hypothetical porn star, actually existed. Or am I falling into some kind of debational trap here?
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Feb 1, 2014 06:06
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savinhill posted:Poor Helix thread, it's only the fourth week of the show, it's pinned, and not a single new post. The Michael J Fox show thread had no posts from December 20th or something until yesterday.
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Feb 1, 2014 06:55
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muscles like this? posted:I've been watching the show but I've actually been enjoying it while people in the thread seem to be mostly... not. I haven't seen tonight's episode of Helix, but I can't say I dislike the show. It's there, it keeps me interested week to week, but it doesn't inspire much commentary. I have read some bad reviews and talked to a handful of people who kind of thought it was bad, but eh... I guess I am easier to please, or at least not turn off.
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Feb 1, 2014 07:10
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I wonder when the day will come that someone writes another comedy pilot as good as That 70's Show's.
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Feb 1, 2014 07:18
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Yoshifan823 posted:I wonder when the day will come that someone writes another comedy pilot as good as That 70's Show's. The pilot for Raising Hope is pretty great.
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Feb 1, 2014 07:46
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Yoshifan823 posted:I wonder when the day will come that someone writes another comedy pilot as good as That 70's Show's. The original Glee pilot was really, REALLY good. precision posted:Or am I falling into some kind of debational trap here? "Trap" assumes there's more at work here than fake outrage at imagined sexism.
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Feb 1, 2014 13:15
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I totally forgot that Glee used to be good. They really dropped all the satirical elements (like all the cheerleaders being in the celibacy club) incredibly quickly.
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Feb 1, 2014 13:19
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only marginally related to television, but I just have to say it somewhere: I can't loving believe they got Billy Bob Thornton to be in the Entourage movie.
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Feb 1, 2014 13:40
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Irish Joe posted:The original Glee pilot was really, REALLY good. Absolutely right it was. Some others that are possible contenders: Modern Family Raising Hope Bob's Burgers Community (I know a lot of people dislike the pilot/first few episodes, but those people are WRONG ABOUT TELEVISION) The Office (UK) Trailer Park Boys
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Feb 1, 2014 15:42
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Brooklyn Nine-Nine's pilot was way better than it had any right to be as a pilot, as well. I swear I feel like we missed the awkward first season of that show and just immediately got a sure of itself second season show.
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Feb 1, 2014 16:12
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savinhill posted:Poor Helix thread, it's only the fourth week of the show, it's pinned, and not a single new post. Mirrors the fact that there's not a single new idea in the show.
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Feb 1, 2014 17:16
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Yoshifan823 posted:I wonder when the day will come that someone writes another comedy pilot as good as That 70's Show's. Now that's a great opinion right there, one of a few odd shows that starts out great.
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Feb 1, 2014 17:39
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Oh gently caress yeah, Glee's pilot is like, transcendently good. I remember watching it and being on the verge of tears during Don't Stop Believing. The rest of those comedy pilots are all pretty good, but aside from mayyyyybe Modern Family, none of them were quite fully formed as shows right from the get-go. Aside from Eric's sister, pretty much every major character beat and plot and even storytelling device (the circle) were all present right from the start. It's a shame that it couldn't hold it's quality as long as something like Frasier did, because at it's best, That 70's Show really is one of the best. That the downside of a sitcom reliant on younger actors: they're much more likely to leave and do better things. (Which pretty much all of them did, even if it took Laura Prepon/Danny Masterson a while to find another gig that good)
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Feb 1, 2014 17:46
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smg77 posted:This is a good description of every single season of Californication. As bad as Californication is, it hasn't reached the lows of Weeds or Entourage. precision posted:Absolutely right it was. Can Archer be added to the list?
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Feb 1, 2014 18:08
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None of those pilots were particularly good, compared to the Glee pilot (which is one of the best comedy pilots ever).
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Feb 1, 2014 18:19
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CaptainHollywood posted:As bad as Californication is, it hasn't reached the lows of Weeds or Entourage. I never watched it much, but I recall it being vaguely entertaining but something I could tell would get very dated very fast and also probably not worth watching every single episode of. I certainly didn't expect anyone to bring it up. quote:Can Archer be added to the list? Archer's pilot did put in place pretty much all the established stylistic gimmicks and in-jokes, though it's kind of cheating because he had already been setting up that entire style with Frisky Dingo. Archer basically had a running start, which is why the first season hooks people so often, I think.
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Feb 1, 2014 18:29
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Entourage had some really fun episodes. Not a bad idea to watch the first couple seasons. Especially the one where they go to Comic Con. I think I quit by the time Sasha Grey joined the show.
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Feb 1, 2014 18:37
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CaptainHollywood posted:As bad as Californication is, it hasn't reached the lows of Weeds or Entourage. Weeds was just abysmal but it turned bad pretty early on where I didn't really start to hate Entourage until the last season or two.
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Feb 1, 2014 18:47
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Someone should do a fan edit of Entourage that only uses scenes that contain Ari or Lloyd, with "the boys" only showing up occasionally. I'm serious, that would be awesome.
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Feb 1, 2014 18:54
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Yoshifan823 posted:I wonder when the day will come that someone writes another comedy pilot as good as That 70's Show's. I must never have seen the pilot, I watched the poo poo out of that show at least up until 1979 started lasting forever and I can't think of anything that happened in the first episode.
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Feb 1, 2014 21:50
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raditts posted:I must never have seen the pilot, I watched the poo poo out of that show at least up until 1979 started lasting forever and I can't think of anything that happened in the first episode. I mean, the only thing of note that happens is Eric getting the Vista Cruiser. It's not so much a story driven show, so the first episode doesn't have a whole lot of change to set up, just characters and relationships.
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Feb 1, 2014 22:11
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Yoshifan823 posted:I mean, the only thing of note that happens is Eric getting the Vista Cruiser. It's not so much a story driven show, so the first episode doesn't have a whole lot of change to set up, just characters and relationships. It's been years since I've seen the pilot, but I also seem to remember a scene with Eric and Donna sitting on the basement steps that just perfectly captured how these two kids that have been friends for ages might have deeper feelings for each other. I don't know, it was so easy to identify with the characters and their relationship from day one. Did they drive the whole thing into the ground? Of course they did. But it started out great!
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Feb 2, 2014 03:28
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raditts posted:I must never have seen the pilot, I watched the poo poo out of that show at least up until 1979 started lasting forever and I can't think of anything that happened in the first episode. Man, they did the teenager drunk/high moving wall behind the parents thing like I've never seen since. I remember feeling that way in the 80's. That, and Donna was ridiculous. Why didn't I grow up next door to a gorgeous redhead? That's right, I live in Minnesota.
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Feb 2, 2014 04:24
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Yoshifan823 posted:Oh gently caress yeah, Glee's pilot is like, transcendently good. I remember watching it and being on the verge of tears during Don't Stop Believing. Arrested Development has the crown as the most fully formed comedy in its pilot in at least, say, the last 25 years.
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Feb 2, 2014 06:35
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Shageletic posted:Arrested Development has the crown as the most fully formed comedy in its pilot in at least, say, the last 25 years. Didn't they lay in jokes from the pilot that didn't pay off until season 3?
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Feb 2, 2014 06:44
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Tuxedo Jack posted:None of those pilots were particularly good, compared to the Glee pilot (which is one of the best comedy pilots ever). As an aside to all this, but wasn't Glee sort of originally pitched as a movie? I wonder if that lent itself to a different perspective when retooling it for TV. Knowing it's only going to be a 1-hour pilot lets them trim the fat of a 90-120min film while looking at cut ideas and sequel ideas as things to more fully develop in series. Never watched Glee, myself, though, so I'm probably missing something.
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Feb 2, 2014 08:08
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Shageletic posted:Arrested Development has the crown as the most fully formed comedy in its pilot in at least, say, the last 25 years. I was going to say this next too. It not only defined it's main cast very clearly, but also set up it's distinct style. Was it one of the first live action shows to cut away to a flashback for a 5 second gag?
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Feb 2, 2014 09:00
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I have to throw some love towards The Shield's pilot. When you go back, some of the lighting and camera angles look almost from the Bruckheimer school of cinematography and then there's that ending. If it doesn't grab you I suspect you're dead inside. I seriously spent at least 3 years loaning out season 1 on dvd because I kept showing friends that pilot.
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Feb 2, 2014 09:50
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Dead Snoopy posted:I have to throw some love towards The Shield's pilot. When you go back, some of the lighting and camera angles look almost from the Bruckheimer school of cinematography and then there's that ending. If it doesn't grab you I suspect you're dead inside. I seriously spent at least 3 years loaning out season 1 on dvd because I kept showing friends that pilot. And the laughs are a mile a minute in that pilot, too. Actually, if we're broadening the scope a little to include dramatic pilots, LOST ( yes, I'm going to keep capitalizing it) has the perfect drama pilot. It has a near impossible task of introducing like a baker's dozen characters, and it manages to do so while confidently planting the seeds for stories for years of content. Close second (and one could make an argument for it being comedy) is Sleepy Hollow. It's exactly the kind of show that it presents itself as in the pilot. Completely batshit crazy with a solid, non romantic chemistry between the two leads and a surprisingly competent second tier cast.
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Feb 2, 2014 16:49
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cool kids inc. posted:And the laughs are a mile a minute in that pilot, too. The Lost pilot did a lot of things right, but I don't think I would've kept watching the show on the strength of that pilot. The one thing I remember the most from it is how loving hard I laughed when Jack is recounting his background to somebody and it does a close up on his face and a single tear runs down his cheek.
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Feb 2, 2014 16:51
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The pilot itself goes through some well-trodden ground, but Friday Night Lights pretty much encapsulated what the entire series was going for with Coach Taylor's "We will be tested" monologue. As soon as I heard that I knew I could be watching something special.
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Feb 2, 2014 18:23
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