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what is a j, really, anyway
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Feb 3, 2014 05:35
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Groetgaffel posted:It's also reminiscent of the scnadinavian languages. Swedish, Norwegian, and Danish are clearly different languages yet close enough that one speaking one language can usually understand the general meaning of someone speaking one of the others. Icelandic on the other hand is much closer to what was spoken by the vikings that originally settled there. It's pretty different to the other three but you can still see common roots. You can also look at English. It's the most widely spoken language in the world but it can be very hard for the disparate groups of speakers to understand each other. Those that speak with a received pronunciation or mid western accent can be understood easily but those who speak with a strong regional accent can be very hard to understand if you are not used to it. Then you add in people who speak it as a second language with their own strong accent it makes it hard for a Gordie to talk to an Indian even though they speak the same language and had the same level and type of schooling in the language. To put it in a 40K context those who had an high level education using official methods would speak low Gothic with a clear understantable accent but those who had a poorer education or from a back water world would be very hard to understand unless they took a real effort to be understood.
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Feb 3, 2014 13:34
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Groetgaffel posted:All the Chaosy dudes in Gaunt's Ghosts speak their own language. The thing about the "Gaunt's Ghosts" series, is that the Imperium isn't just fighting a random daemon infestation, but an actual fully fledged civilisation that happens to worship the Chaos powers. People are born, grow-up, and live their whole lives in this strange, alien inter-planetary civilisation without ever encountering the Imperium or meeting it's people. "Traitor General" and "Blood Pact", both give glimpses of how this civilisation works with the former showing denizens of it attempting to learn Gothic and basic Imperial living habits, and the latter focusing on people that were literally born into that world (not just IG traitors).
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Feb 3, 2014 13:39
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Groetgaffel posted:Or, to get back to Gaunt's Ghosts, in one of the later books; Traitor General I believe it was called, there's a group of partisans who still talk like the original settlers of the planet, something that is close to but still distinct from the current High Gothic.
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Feb 3, 2014 18:15
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Foxtrot_13 posted:You can also look at English. It's the most widely spoken language in the world but it can be very hard for the disparate groups of speakers to understand each other. Those that speak with a received pronunciation or mid western accent can be understood easily but those who speak with a strong regional accent can be very hard to understand if you are not used to it. Then you add in people who speak it as a second language with their own strong accent it makes it hard for a Gordie to talk to an Indian even though they speak the same language and had the same level and type of schooling in the language. I imagine that the lower classes would have widely different dialects and that the upper classes would literally need to hire a translator to communicate with them, even if they're on the same world. Also, Imperial fringe/border worlds definitely would have variants of Low Gothic that are almost impossible to translate into proper Low Gothic.
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Feb 3, 2014 21:43
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When is Dan Abnett's Penitent due?
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Feb 4, 2014 16:46
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Baron Bifford posted:When is Dan Abnett's Penitent due? I want Master of Mankind to come out  And the Talons of Horus.
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Feb 4, 2014 17:51
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GW has stated that Low Gothic is to English while High Gothic is to Latin - that's why you see so much "Latin" in 40K. It's the "higher" more "pure" language. I think this stems from the traditional educational system that viewed the Classical time periods to be the epitome of perfection in government, language, philosophy, etc.
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Feb 4, 2014 20:21
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It seems to fit with the Imperium's general creed that progress is bad and what is old is purer and holier.
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Feb 4, 2014 21:56
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To fill in the high/low division, classical Latin was effectively codified by Cicero and a few other writers towards the end of the Republic/early Imperium and was basically an artificial language based on classical text they felt to be a 'pure' Latin. It's unlikely anyone ever spoke it. Being an artificial language that was used only by the educated (and probably mostly for official purposes or in writing) it remained fairly unchanged up to the modern era. Vulgar Latin was what most people used and would certainly have had a number of regional variations. As the Empire began to break down and there was less international trade/cultural exposure those differences increased to the point where differing dialects became mutually unintelligible and eventually different languages entirely. Some elements of modern Romance languages were already present in vulgar Latin and actually left out of classical Latin interestingly. So I guess High gothic would be an artificial language known only to the educated and used largely for official purposes, ensuring it remains strictly codified and mutually intelligible while Low Gothic would vary greatly depending on the level of isolation of the culture and the length of time it had been cut off. I don't know if GW ever actually put this level of thought into it, I'd suspect it was more along the lines of 'Latin sounds cool, let's use some Latin names!'
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Feb 5, 2014 05:08
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It's also possible that there's no unified origin for Low Gothic at all, and the various dialects are derived from totally different language families, but it's merely assumed/asserted that all the languages of humanity have a common origin in High Gothic for political and/or spiritual reasons. Not even necessarily through a conspiracy but through simple misunderstanding.
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Feb 5, 2014 05:37
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How are Gav Thorpe's Last Chancers books? I've read pretty much of all ADB and most of Abnett so I need some moderately well-written grimdark to fill the gap until either of those two pumps out another book.
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Feb 5, 2014 06:41
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Awful. Terrible. Really, really bad.
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Feb 5, 2014 06:46
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Khizan posted:Awful. Terrible. Really, really bad. Balls. Okay. What's the best sub-ADB, sub-Abnett but still readable by a literate adult series?
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Feb 5, 2014 06:49
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UncleSmoothie posted:Balls. Ahriman Exile by John French was quite good. Honestly John French hasn't written much, but what he has written has been decent. Also Battle of The Fang was awesome.
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Feb 5, 2014 07:23
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UncleSmoothie posted:Balls. Chris Wraight is consistently very good.
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Feb 5, 2014 07:35
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Storm of Iron by Graham McNeill is really good. Easily the best thing he's ever written.
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Feb 5, 2014 09:27
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UberJumper posted:Ahriman Exile by John French was quite good. Honestly John French hasn't written much, but what he has written has been decent. I really did like Ahriman Exile. Kinda hope it turns into a series.
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Feb 5, 2014 12:10
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UncleSmoothie posted:Balls. You said sub-ADB, but he wrote Helsreach which was pretty great if you haven't read it.
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Feb 5, 2014 13:47
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UncleSmoothie posted:Balls. John French, Chris Wraight. Graham McNeil is hit or miss - when he's good he's up there, but for every decent thing he publishes 3-4 books/stories that are subpar at best and trash at worst. There's also Sandy Mitchell's space pseudo-flashman series.
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Feb 5, 2014 14:43
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It sure would be nice if there was an OP that people could read for book and author suggestions 
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Feb 5, 2014 14:58
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Nephilm posted:John French, Chris Wraight. Graham McNeil is hit or miss - when he's good he's up there, but for every decent thing he publishes 3-4 books/stories that are subpar at best and trash at worst. There's also Sandy Mitchell's space pseudo-flashman series. Ciaphas Cain is what got me into reading black library stuff in the first placed. Best is to space them out a bit though, if you read every story back to back they tend to get a bit repetitive. First omnibus is especially bad with having "Little did I know..." or something equivalent at least once per chapter.
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Feb 5, 2014 15:00
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I might have asked up-thread, but is Litany of Hate any good? I got a couple of long flights coming up and want some bolter-porn so I don't have to talk to my coworker.
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Feb 5, 2014 16:06
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Not to compound on all the ADB-love in the thread (warranted as it is), but a friend recently read Angel Exterminatus and pointed out how every trait is so overt and repetitive in that book you want to slap the whole cast all around. In his words, it was like DMing an rpg table where the teenage players are playing their first bad guys. "So, my guy is a druggie, that means every word out of my mouth has to be about scoring and using drugs!" He's a big Iron Warriors fan, but found himself losing interest at how endlessly butthurt they were about everything, while better authors conveyed that more subtly and more powerfully, leaving room for actual characterization. He compared it with the Night Lords trilogy and how everyone's characteristics and little secrets were established without being jack-hammered home (And in the most overt case, Uzas, it being a twist since he is a victim of another person's corruption.)
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Feb 5, 2014 16:42
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Mechafunkzilla posted:It sure would be nice if there was an OP that people could read for book and author suggestions I read the OP! But it specifically says "ask here about anything else". Which is what I was doing. 
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Feb 5, 2014 17:03
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UncleSmoothie posted:I read the OP! But it specifically says "ask here about anything else". Which is what I was doing. who cares, any excuse to talk about Warhammer.  Posts for the Post God
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Feb 5, 2014 18:07
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Angel Exterminatus was such a worthless book, the plot was dumb as poo poo.
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Feb 5, 2014 18:10
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ed balls balls man posted:Angel Exterminatus was such a worthless book, the plot was dumb as poo poo. Yeah, Mcneil really likes writing about foreign objects being shoved into Fulgrim's body.
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Feb 5, 2014 18:34
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He so badly wants to write a porno. "Oh, my sweet Horus, let me show you how much a Primarch can endure." Onto more serious questions... Can anyone recommend a great novel that does not feature humans as the protagonists? Perhaps Eldar or Tau? Baron Bifford fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Feb 5, 2014 |
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Feb 5, 2014 18:54
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MrNemo posted:
It is explained pretty well in the 40K RPG rulebooks from Fantasy Flight Games, and you pretty much nailed it. High Gothic is the official codified language used by the Adeptus and Nobility, while Low Gothic is the infinite variants that spring up across the galaxy. In game terms you are usually required to make some sort of test to see if you can fit together what someone is saying, especially when on feral worlds or in the underhive. Depending on a GMs disposition he might declare it is impossible to decipher without being schooled on the specifics. I also finally caught up and read Shadows of Treachery, and was glad it filled in some of the gaps. It was nice to see the Imperial Fists get a little more love, although as usual they seem little more as whipping boys for the traitors. Perhaps you guys can clear up a few questions: 1) The Imperial Fist that survives the attack on the Iron Monger, is he the one that then gets handed over to Fabius Bile and turned into a monster? I hated Angel Exterminatus and don't really want to reopen it. 2) Who is the Raven Guard traitor working for the Night Lords in Lord of Crows? What is his significance? 3) I can't decide who I hate more Kurze or Perturabo...at least Kurze is interesting in some ways. I have yet to read anything about Perturabo that doesn't make him come off as a more childish and temper tantrum prone version of Rogal Dorn. Baron Bifford posted:Can anyone recommend a great novel that does not feature humans as the protagonists? Perhaps Eldar or Tau? There are none. However, if you want to jump into Warhammer Fantasty I recommend the Malus Darkblade series(Dark Elves). Keep in mind I am not all familiar with the setting, but I absolutely loved it. Malus is a great anti-hero, and for me the series felt much like ADB Night Lords series in creating a really enjoyable rear end in a top hat. TheArmorOfContempt fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Feb 6, 2014 |
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Feb 6, 2014 00:26
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What always puzzles me about GW is why they created such a massive universe with interesting races, yet never set any of their novels from the point of view of those many interesting races. It's ridiculous that this has been going on - what - 27 years or so now and we still don't have a proper Xenos focused novel.
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Feb 6, 2014 00:43
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Noctis Horrendae posted:What always puzzles me about GW is why they created such a massive universe with interesting races, yet never set any of their novels from the point of view of those many interesting races. It's ridiculous that this has been going on - what - 27 years or so now and we still don't have a proper Xenos focused novel. Well, the Eldar races are supposed to be super mysterious. Pretty much the only thing they bring to a story is treachery and hidden motives, setting books from their point of view would ruin that aspect. That said, I'd love to read a book about all the double-dealings and political intrigue in Commoragh - not that I expect a BL author to pull it off.
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Feb 6, 2014 00:48
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Noctis Horrendae posted:What always puzzles me about GW is why they created such a massive universe with interesting races, yet never set any of their novels from the point of view of those many interesting races. It's ridiculous that this has been going on - what - 27 years or so now and we still don't have a proper Xenos focused novel. There's been a few (all by poo poo authors). It's important to remember, though, that WH40k is the story of the Imperium of Man - every narrative and every viewpoint is meant to be framed in that context.
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Feb 6, 2014 00:48
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Saith posted:Well, the Eldar races are supposed to be super mysterious. Pretty much the only thing they bring to a story is treachery and hidden motives, setting books from their point of view would ruin that aspect. That said, I'd love to read a book about all the double-dealings and political intrigue in Commoragh - not that I expect a BL author to pull it off. Nephilm posted:There's been a few (all by poo poo authors). It's important to remember, though, that WH40k is the story of the Imperium of Man - every narrative and every viewpoint is meant to be framed in that context. I suppose the Eldar's main appeal is the mystery behind them all, so that's a good point. I just want a Xenos book in general. IMHO the Imperium is one of the least interesting factions, and I'm sure many agree. There's probably a lot more Xenos fans than Imperium fans.
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Feb 6, 2014 00:50
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I like the Imperium better. They're human, so it's easier to relate to the characters or in the opposite case, juxtapose our common understanding of the world with one that made them diverge from that. Aliens are boring if you use them as POV, since then they truly become just humans with a different hat instead of something truly foreign.
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Feb 6, 2014 00:55
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Nephilm posted:I like the Imperium better. They're human, so it's easier to relate to the characters or in the opposite case, juxtapose our common understanding of the world with one that made them diverge from that. That's also a good point, but I can't really push myself to relate to an overly zealous and fascistic galaxy-spanning empire. It's like making the Empire from Star Wars the main characters - it just feels sort of off.
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Feb 6, 2014 00:57
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If nothing else, the Sisters of Battle need some time in the spotlight.
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Feb 6, 2014 00:59
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Saith posted:If nothing else, the Sisters of Battle need some time in the spotlight. See, that's the thing. GW made the Imperium so huge that they don't have enough writers to expand on the lore of all the Imperium-based factions, far less the Xenos.
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Feb 6, 2014 01:01
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Noctis Horrendae posted:I suppose the Eldar's main appeal is the mystery behind them all, so that's a good point. I just want a Xenos book in general. IMHO the Imperium is one of the least interesting factions, and I'm sure many agree. There's probably a lot more Xenos fans than Imperium fans. The Eldar have the 'Path of' series which was okay. Aside from the Tau, I think Xenos are just hard to write for if you want to get beyond bolter porn. Deff Skwadron is probably still the best Xenos story out there.
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Feb 6, 2014 01:22
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Kegslayer posted:The Eldar have the 'Path of' series which was okay. Aside from the Tau, I think Xenos are just hard to write for if you want to get beyond bolter porn. We need more Tau and Necron based stories.
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Feb 6, 2014 01:23
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