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BlitzBlast posted:or just gets so ridiculously powerful that he can beat 17/18/Cell without breaking a sweat. Which is kinda weird if you think about it for a moment. He went back to his own time, beat 17 & 18 only to eventually get taken down by Cell absolutely effortlessly... and Cell at that point was weaker than the 17 and 18 from the past. Which is fair enough normally, but Trunks gets strong enough to be able to handle them before going back to his own time.  Okay, you could argue that it was probably a Cell from a different future where 17 and 18 were weaker than the ones Future Trunks had to deal with but then it just gets even more convoluted and confusing.
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Feb 6, 2014 06:33
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Mister Roboto posted:Yep, he knows, because time travel in Dragonball Z doesn't actually exist. You can't change the past, you can only jump to a parallel universe where things went differently--which is a result of you jumping in the first place. At first I thought to myself "How the gently caress does Trunks have any chance against Buu without bullshit like SS3 and fusions?" but then I remembered that Future Trunks is the single most pragmatic person in the series. He would beat Buu by blowing Babidi up and prevent him from being released in the first place.
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Feb 6, 2014 06:33
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e: nevermind
carry on then fucked around with this message at 06:49 on Feb 6, 2014 |
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Feb 6, 2014 06:35
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Dragonatrix posted:Which is kinda weird if you think about it for a moment. He went back to his own time, beat 17 & 18 only to eventually get taken down by Cell absolutely effortlessly... and Cell at that point was weaker than the 17 and 18 from the past. Which is fair enough normally, but Trunks gets strong enough to be able to handle them before going back to his own time. It's not that confusing--again, just because someone is stronger does not mean they can't be taken off-guard. Happens all the time in the series. Imperfect Cell was shown to have the ability to hide his Ki. So he could easily sneak up and take an unprepared Trunks out. Especially as THAT Trunks was the one who went back after the first warning to Goku. In fact, the finale of the Trunks saga shows exactly that--Trunks goes to the location where he knows Imperfect Cell is hiding and waiting to kill him. Trunks calls him out and Imperfect Cell is surprised because it should be impossible for Trunks to know he's coming. Mister Roboto fucked around with this message at 06:48 on Feb 6, 2014 |
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Feb 6, 2014 06:42
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Zonekeeper posted:At first I thought to myself "How the gently caress does Trunks have any chance against Buu without bullshit like SS3 and fusions?" but then I remembered that Future Trunks is the single most pragmatic person in the series. He would beat Buu by blowing Babidi up and prevent him from being released in the first place. According to Dragon Ball Heroes, Future Trunks can totally go Super Saiyan 3. I know, I know, but come on, that game is awesome.
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Feb 6, 2014 06:44
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Dragonatrix posted:Which is kinda weird if you think about it for a moment. He went back to his own time, beat 17 & 18 only to eventually get taken down by Cell absolutely effortlessly... and Cell at that point was weaker than the 17 and 18 from the past. Which is fair enough normally, but Trunks gets strong enough to be able to handle them before going back to his own time. I think it was worked out that it takes a minimum of 4 timelines for everything to make sense: 1: The "original" timeline where the androids blow everything up and a future Trunks travels into the past (timeline 2). Trunks gets killed by Cell after defeating the Androids, and he takes the stolen time machine to timeline 4. 2: The past that Future Trunks from timeline 1 goes to. He learns how to destroy the Androids here and returns to timeline 1. He never encounters Cell, meaning he's woefully unprepared for the ambush awaiting him after he destroys the Androids in timeline 1. 3: Same as timeline 1, except that this Trunks (the Future Trunks from the main series) travels to timeline 4 and returns far stronger than his Timeline 1 counterpart. Both the Androids and Cell from this timeline are destroyed by him. 4: The main show timeline. Cell from timeline 1 arrives 1 year before Timeline 3's Trunks. Wrong androids, Cell games, yadda yadda.
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Feb 6, 2014 06:48
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Sure, Bills may blow up planets, but that is his job. I'm pretty sure that hasn't been a valid excuse since 1946. Dragonatrix posted:Which is kinda weird if you think about it for a moment. He went back to his own time, beat 17 & 18 only to eventually get taken down by Cell absolutely effortlessly... and Cell at that point was weaker than the 17 and 18 from the past. Which is fair enough normally, but Trunks gets strong enough to be able to handle them before going back to his own time. Trunks used the remote to kill the androids in that future. Also there's no actual evidence of any strength difference between the present and future androids since trunks can't sense their power. Stairmaster fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Feb 6, 2014 |
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Feb 6, 2014 06:48
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WickedHate posted:According to Dragon Ball Heroes, Future Trunks can totally go Super Saiyan 3. I know, I know, but come on, that game is awesome. I feel like as the lone protector of the planet and the fact that Bulma likely told him about the various alien threats she was witness to, Trunks would probably keep up his training to make sure he was ready for anything. Eventually ascending doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility.
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Feb 6, 2014 06:50
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Babidi and Buu wouldn't matter in Trunks's timeline because the only reason why Buu revived was because Supreme Kai is a stupid idiot and let Gohan be absorbed and later lead the 3 most powerful fighters to fight and fuel his rebirth.
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Feb 6, 2014 06:51
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Stairmaster posted:I'm pretty sure that hasn't been a valid excuse since 1946. To be fair SS officers can't vaporize your planet in the bat of their eye.
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Feb 6, 2014 06:51
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Just to clear up any future confusing questions: Power levels do NOT define battles. That's the whole point of them, to show how people that rely on "who is stronger" eventually suffer for that assumption. People forget that the first person who relied on power levels, Raditz, DIED because he didn't realize skills and talent fluctuate, proving their uselessness. There's tons of examples of stronger people being taken down by weaker ones, usually when the stronger is taken off-guard: All the way from Majin Vegeta vs. an off-guard SSj2 Goku:  Back to the when Yamcha beat Goku (who was distracted out of hunger):  And for good measure, here's the scene that explains how Cell planned to Ambush Trunks:  And how Cell DID manage to do it in his timeline: 
Mister Roboto fucked around with this message at 07:26 on Feb 6, 2014 |
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Feb 6, 2014 07:21
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Are the only Dragonball scans around STILL the ugly, badly-edited, mirror-flipped scans from 1998? Haven't there been a couple VIZ English releases and re-releases?
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Feb 6, 2014 07:48
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Soulcleaver posted:Are the only Dragonball scans around STILL the ugly, badly-edited, mirror-flipped scans from 1998? Haven't there been a couple VIZ English releases and re-releases? Generally speaking manga sites don't scan official US releases. Companies ignored scanlations for stuff that's Japan-only, but when it's things sold here, that can cut into profits and is basically piracy.
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Feb 6, 2014 08:02
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Zonekeeper posted:(timeline 2). Trunks gets killed by Cell after defeating the Androids, and he takes the stolen time machine to timeline 4. Well that timeline's earth is going to be hosed the minute Bojack sells/takes over the planet.
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Feb 6, 2014 10:24
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SirDrone posted:Well that timeline's earth is going to be hosed the minute Bojack sells/takes over the planet. Bojack can't escape until one of the kais die.
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Feb 6, 2014 11:07
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Stairmaster posted:I'm pretty sure that hasn't been a valid excuse since 1946. Isn't Bills essentially a mystical force of nature? That would be a little different.
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Feb 6, 2014 16:06
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Dude is pretty much Cat Galactus.
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Feb 6, 2014 16:30
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Soulcleaver posted:Are the only Dragonball scans around STILL the ugly, badly-edited, mirror-flipped scans from 1998? Haven't there been a couple VIZ English releases and re-releases? I'd be surprised if you couldn't find it on a torrent site somewhere, but you'd be unlikely to find it on a scanlation site since that's straight up piracy and would probably get them shut down (didn't that happen to a popular scanlation site a few years ago?).
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Feb 6, 2014 16:53
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MooselanderII posted:I'm surprised this hasn't been posted, but a recent interview with Akira Toriyama has been posted that reveals details about Goku's mother as well as his hopes for the next movie, if it's made. http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/episode-bardock-akira-toriyama-super-qa/ This was a pretty awesome interview.
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Feb 6, 2014 21:29
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Captain Oblivious posted:Isn't Bills essentially a mystical force of nature? That would be a little different. He seems to have a lot of agency in the film, so no.
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Feb 7, 2014 01:54
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Stairmaster posted:He seems to have a lot of agency in the film, so no. So yeah, Cat Galactus.
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Feb 7, 2014 02:52
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The supreme examples of someone with a lower PL managing to pose a threat to a person of a higher level are Goku with Raditz and Android 16 with Perfect Cell. The former had Goku with broken ribs holding a guy about 4 times stronger than him and the latter had 16 holding a guy dozens of times stronger than him. Or maybe it's just bad writing. Yeah it's probably that.
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Feb 7, 2014 05:32
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Vintimus Prime posted:This was a pretty awesome interview. I'd absolutely love a movie with vegeta as the star. Toriyama's come a long way from begrudgingly keeping vegeta around because fans liked him. Although I thought the dbz movie did well and I'm guessing it'd make good bank in a worldwide release, so here's hoping.
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Feb 7, 2014 07:34
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Monaghan posted:I'd absolutely love a movie with vegeta as the star. Toriyama's come a long way from begrudgingly keeping vegeta around because fans liked him. I honestly think Dragonball still has great potential as a franchise, but it'd need to be handled right and be marketed right. Kai wasn't so great, but it proved there's an audience. I even think a real life action movie COULD work but, again, they need the right approach. The highschool comedy routine, ehhhhhhh it could've worked, but, really, it didn't need to pander like that. 2 hours of people blowing things up while fighting sells itself.
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Feb 7, 2014 07:46
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Dragonball the movie could've worked if they didn't get the Dragon ball parts completely wrong. Like, at what point do you go to the idea that the Kamehameha is a revival technique?
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Feb 7, 2014 09:09
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NikkolasKing posted:The supreme examples of someone with a lower PL managing to pose a threat to a person of a higher level are Goku with Raditz and Android 16 with Perfect Cell. The former had Goku with broken ribs holding a guy about 4 times stronger than him and the latter had 16 holding a guy dozens of times stronger than him. This is what you write when you take the powerlevel argument very literally. Even though there are many, many times proven just how little it matters when even Krillin and Gohan at low powers can even annoy Freiza with a weak-rear end beam attack. It ought to sink in that "4 times as strong" doesn't actually mean "he's as strong as four of you". It's just dumb numbers that mean little besides boosting the villains ego and dig their own dumb graves. More often than not, willpower is what wins the day in DBZ.
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Feb 7, 2014 09:43
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And that time Goku multiplied his PL by like, 20 or 50 or whatever and could only mildly annoy Freeza at 50%? That would make Freeza worth, what, a 100 Goku's? Or that time Vegeta used all his power to attack Perfect Cell (both times actually...) and didn't really do anything? Or my favorite, when Nappa attacked Tien and Tien defended himself...only to get his arm punched off.
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Feb 7, 2014 10:39
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NikkolasKing posted:And that time Goku multiplied his PL by like, 20 or 50 or whatever and could only mildly annoy Freeza at 50%? That would make Freeza worth, what, a 100 Goku's? Proving, once again, that power levels are meaningless. People still don't get it, 10 years later: Toriyama made it clear IN THE FIGHT when power levels were introduced that they were a faulty and useless method of judging fighters. Raditz died because he relied on it. And so did everyone else who did.
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Feb 7, 2014 12:15
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Heck, Vegeta survived because he realized this and crushed his scouter as soon as possible and then started killing the other bad guys. He still couldn't help but brag and show off a bit, but he was still Vegeta after all.
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Feb 7, 2014 12:49
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Tae posted:Dragonball the movie could've worked if they didn't get the Dragon ball parts completely wrong. Like, at what point do you go to the idea that the Kamehameha is a revival technique? My favourite thing about Dragon Ball: Evolution is still James Marsters describing Piccolo: quote:Lord Piccolo. He's thousands of years old and a very long time ago he used to be a force of good but got into a bad argument and was put into prison for 2,000 years. It got him very angry, and he finds a way to escape and then tries to destroy the world. The cool thing is, anybody who has seen Dragonball knows that Lord Piccolo transforms into a character named Piccolo, and that is a whole other ball of wax ... Heroic wouldn't be the wrong term by the end, but it's a long journey.
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Feb 7, 2014 21:21
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What would you guys say was your favorite fight through the series? Mine is still Goku vs Cell. I still watch it from time to time, subtitled though Kai is a close second.
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Feb 7, 2014 21:45
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Piccolo vs. 17 will always be one of my favorites. It was probably the last real "raw" fight. Very physical at points while also being quite tactical at others (Piccolo's scatter shot comes to mind).
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Feb 7, 2014 21:47
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My favorite fights are Nappa vs everyone before Goku shows up followed by Recoome vs Vegeta, Gohan, and Krillin. I have a thing for group fights vs an impossible foe, and wish there were more of them. Plus I watched the Nappa fight before I started spoiling the show for myself on the Internet and it had me on the edge of my seat each episode. My favorite one on one fight is probably either Goku vs King Piccolo or Vegeta vs. Zarbon. I guess I'm kinda weird though.
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Feb 7, 2014 21:53
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As a kid, Gohan vs Cell was amazing, at least up until everything goes south. Recently I did watch Goku vs Cell and really came to admire the pacing and animation of that segment.
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Feb 7, 2014 22:01
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Videl vs Spopovich was one of my favorite fights, mainly due to the fact it's one of the few times post saiyans that a human does anything and she just loving tears into him. Like it's amazing to see a human character have that much fight and ferocity post-Dragon Ball, it rocked. I just wish it didn't reverse since Spopovich was impossible to kill without magic powers. Also Goku vs Tien and Goku vs King Piccolo, both fights were just absolutely insane in the levels of inventive stuff they went to and Tien blowing up the ring is one of my favorite moments in Dragon Ball.
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Feb 7, 2014 22:47
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carry on then posted:As a kid, Gohan vs Cell was amazing, at least up until everything goes south. Recently I did watch Goku vs Cell and really came to admire the pacing and animation of that segment. I think that's what does it for me, in regards to Goku vs Cell. The moment Goku gets serious after the warm ups, and Trunks catches the tone of the battle immediately shifting, it's awesome. At this point, Cell knows that power wise, Goku couldn't beat him, but skill wise he is right up there. So he was enjoying the hell out of the fight.
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Feb 7, 2014 23:42
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Hm...Dragon Ball Fights: Goku vs. Tien at the 22nd World Martial Arts Tournament. I felt this was an exceptionally climactic and interesting fight. Tenshinhan was one of the best antagonists in the series IMO. Dragon Ball Z Fights: Android 18 vs. Vegeta. hen I was growing up, I was crazy about Vegeta just like every other kid. he wasn't a goody two-shoes like the others and I loved how he killed everyone and doesn't afraid of anything. But, as I've grown up, I've lost my old love for him and this is my favorite fight simply because of how much his ego was crushed. People like to cite his battle witH Freeza as really bad - and it was - but you really have to look into Vegeta's psyche. All that boasting about being a Super Saiyan, all that obsessive effort, and he still gets his poo poo kicked in with relative ease by this random girl. Plus Eighteen is just one of the best Z characters period so seeing her only real fight was great.
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Feb 7, 2014 23:48
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For me it's a toss-up between Goku vs Jackie Chun, Goku vs Vegeta (the first time), and Piccolo vs 17. Comedy option is Pikkon vs the Barrier from Fusion Reborn.
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Feb 7, 2014 23:55
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The best fight has to be Goku vs. Krillin.
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Feb 8, 2014 00:15
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Goku vs Majin Vegeta has always been my favorite. It's always stuck out as one I remember from originally watching DBZ on Toonami as a small child. Despite how much I dislike the Buu saga, it had some neat fights...until most of the others ended in "Buu absorbs them".
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Feb 8, 2014 00:19
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