Aureus posted:Thats a stand in term for "Your God." Actual literal worship of Satan would be... an interesting one? There'd have to be some kind of twist to it else you are accepting the Christian theology but choosing to worship the "bad guy" which I guess would bring rise to moral questions? Yeah, it'd be like people worshipping dangerous false Messiah who came late in the establishment of your faith and splintered off people from the chosen tribe by claiming to be the Son of God. 
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Feb 7, 2014 02:46
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Aureus posted:Thats a stand in term for "Your God." Actual literal worship of Satan would be... an interesting one? Nah, not that interesting because people who believe in satan pretty much have to believe in God because of the whole thrown out of heaven thing.
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Feb 7, 2014 02:50
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patentmagus posted:Nah, not that interesting because people who believe in satan pretty much have to believe in God because of the whole thrown out of heaven thing. I find it interesting more because I'm thinking along the lines of Wafflehound's joke. If someone's Satanism is a worship of Lucifer because of subscribing to a belief that Lucifer is like say... Zeus and will devour/replace his Father ( God ) and bring about a better age blah blah *invented religious dogma* blah blah I wouldn't see an issue with it? If it was "Hail Satan, Death, Kill Destroy" I would see a moral issue? Its a weird one to me to consider.
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Feb 7, 2014 02:54
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patentmagus posted:Nah, not that interesting because people who believe in satan pretty much have to believe in God because of the whole thrown out of heaven thing. Well, actually.... some Gnostic christians believe Jehovah is a demiurge who very literally is the architect of the universe, but that he created the universe and mired humanity in ignorance and illusion out of some misguided and immature jealous desire, and that actually Lucifer began the process of the redemption of mankind from ignorance by encouraging the eating of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge.
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Feb 7, 2014 02:56
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And us Diest just sit back and rub our hands.... " all according to plans"...
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Feb 7, 2014 03:04
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LingcodKilla posted:And us Diest just sit back and rub our hands.... " all according to plans"... So... We worship Tzeench now? But I'm more a Papa Nurgle guy...
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Feb 7, 2014 03:08
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7thBatallion posted:So... Can we agree to go Undivided?
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Feb 7, 2014 03:25
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LingcodKilla posted:Can we agree to go Undivided? Ugh. Fine. Harmony being the strength of all institutions, more importantly this of blah blah blah...
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Feb 7, 2014 03:30
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7thBatallion posted:So... Well Blue with Gold fringe does tend to be a common theme amongst our aprons...
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Feb 7, 2014 03:32
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Aureus posted:Well Blue with Gold fringe does tend to be a common theme amongst our aprons... Mine is white with a layer of dust.
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Feb 7, 2014 03:38
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7thBatallion posted:Mine is white with a layer of dust. Ah yes, White Powder Lodge #420.
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Feb 7, 2014 04:26
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WAFFLEHOUND posted:Ah yes, White Powder Lodge #420. I'm still an EA, remember?
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Feb 7, 2014 04:44
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Sub Rosa posted:Thelemites aren't atheists, but I would blackball anyone I knew was a member of the OTO. Presuming you have not actually done this, so hopefully not breaking decorum, but may I ask why? I'm not affiliated with OTO nor have I interest in it, but I don't know of any reason why an OTO member would not qualify under the ancient landmarks, and without knowledge of their personal behavior, I wouldn't blackball based on membership alone. Nothing I know of from such an organization would incline me to blackball - though I would need to have confidences about their willingness to follow the obligations completely. I suspect you're aware more than most, but OTO basically started as a Masonic offshoot, Crowley originally used essentially the same degrees for the first three, but changed after being asked by UGLE. He himself was an irregular Mason, but did not know that until he returned to England, having been raised in I believe Mexico which had been de-recognized. There are accounts in his mountain climbing expedition chapters in his autobiography where he talks about sitting in Lodge in India.
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Feb 7, 2014 04:55
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Paramemetic posted:Presuming you have not actually done this, so hopefully not breaking decorum, but may I ask why? In an early ritual of the OTO a question is posed to the aspirant. This question is "In times of difficulty and danger in whom do you place your trust?" There is only one acceptable answer to this question in the OTO: Myself. If that is the candidate's answer to that question I do not find them fit for Masonry. Sub Rosa fucked around with this message at 11:05 on Feb 7, 2014 |
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Feb 7, 2014 10:59
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“Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable, blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish souls? Doubt it not!” -Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma See, worshipping Satan is fine!  But seriously, if you believe in a higher power that rewards good and punishes evil and provides some sort of after life, however you may define it, you'll get something out of Masonry. And if you're a good man, I'll proudly call you brother. I'd be interested to read Lovable Luciferian's views though.
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Feb 7, 2014 12:18
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Sub Rosa posted:In an early ritual of the OTO a question is posed to the aspirant. This question is "In times of difficulty and danger in whom do you place your trust?" There is only one acceptable answer to this question in the OTO: Myself. I'm not sure I understand why such an answer would make them unfit. That question is significantly different from the one WE ask, and "myself" certainly isn't an unreasonable answer. Every now and then in the news you'll hear about parents who, when their child was in medical danger, trusted the healing powers of faith, when perhaps they should have trusted in the healing powers of medical professionals instead. There's something to be said for a healthy amount of self-reliance. Besides, their higher power could be a trickster god who likes to put people in difficulty and danger!
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Feb 9, 2014 00:37
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Let alone the issue of those wacky 'dispersed divinity' people. In their case, the answer is one and the same! On an unrelated note, what do you fellows think about The Freemason, the Sean Astin flick coming out soon?
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Feb 9, 2014 04:02
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I mean, the reason that is the answer is that "There is no god but man."
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Feb 9, 2014 04:06
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Any Colorado masons in here? Back from Installation at my mother lodge (Scotland) and a visitor was from #12 in Colorado. Georgetown, I think?
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Feb 9, 2014 04:08
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Well, it looks like that tuxedo of mine is going to come in handy after all. I had no dark suits in my closet for the funeral.
Kilo147 fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Feb 14, 2014 |
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Feb 14, 2014 05:27
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Don't wear a tuxedo to a funeral.
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Feb 14, 2014 15:02
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Yeah, it's hugely inappropriate. Better to wear subdued but smart shirt and trousers than a tuxedo if you can't borrow or rent a suitable suit.
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Feb 14, 2014 17:59
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Aha. Took some digging in storage, found my old morning jacket. A deep navy blue with a charcoal gray pair of trousers. I'm assuming the WM meant tuxes for the funeral team, which means they forgot I'm not an officer. Or a MM, Whoops. Kilo147 fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Feb 14, 2014 |
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Feb 14, 2014 19:23
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My lodge held a memorial for a deceased brother last weekend, and we officers were explicitly told NOT to wear our tuxedos.
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Feb 14, 2014 21:28
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When I die I expect my lodge to show up in tuxes and already drunk with a DJ hired in advanced. That or a Dia del Muerte theme party
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Feb 15, 2014 01:55
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Yeah, the funeral team was dressy, and they forgot I'm an EA. And not the other Chris. Who is on the team. All was well.
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Feb 15, 2014 02:13
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WAFFLEHOUND posted:That or a Dia del Muerte theme party
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Feb 15, 2014 03:38
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WHEN I DIE GET THE SHRINE TO HOLD MY WAKE
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Feb 15, 2014 17:34
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Emron posted:WHEN I DIE GET THE SHRINE TO HOLD MY WAKE This is a great way to turn one funeral into many.
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Feb 15, 2014 20:06
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I think I posted in an older ask/tell thread about freemasonry, so hello again! I'm not a mason, but I'm more curious than anything else. I remember someone likened lodge meetings to spaghetti dinners, probably in this thread. Is it accurate to assume that freemasonry is akin to a nondenominational Knights of Columbus? If this is an oversimplification, I do apologize, I'm just wondering what I'd be getting myself into if I actually pursued becoming a mason.
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Feb 17, 2014 16:25
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Who Dat posted:I think I posted in an older ask/tell thread about freemasonry, so hello again! I'm not a mason, but I'm more curious than anything else. I remember someone likened lodge meetings to spaghetti dinners, probably in this thread. Is it accurate to assume that freemasonry is akin to a nondenominational Knights of Columbus? If this is an oversimplification, I do apologize, I'm just wondering what I'd be getting myself into if I actually pursued becoming a mason. Essentially yes. Depends what state you are in, different jurisdiction, different rules.
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Feb 17, 2014 16:34
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Who Dat posted:I think I posted in an older ask/tell thread about freemasonry, so hello again! I'm not a mason, but I'm more curious than anything else. I remember someone likened lodge meetings to spaghetti dinners, probably in this thread. Is it accurate to assume that freemasonry is akin to a nondenominational Knights of Columbus? If this is an oversimplification, I do apologize, I'm just wondering what I'd be getting myself into if I actually pursued becoming a mason. Knights of Columbus were actually created as a Catholic-friendly alternative to Freemasonry, so yes - KoC are very similar. Masonic Knights Templar and Knights of Columbus even have incredibly-similar uniforms!  
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Feb 17, 2014 16:56
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Who Dat posted:I think I posted in an older ask/tell thread about freemasonry, so hello again! I'm not a mason, but I'm more curious than anything else. I remember someone likened lodge meetings to spaghetti dinners, probably in this thread. Is it accurate to assume that freemasonry is akin to a nondenominational Knights of Columbus? If this is an oversimplification, I do apologize, I'm just wondering what I'd be getting myself into if I actually pursued becoming a mason. In my experience it has been about going to monthly meetings where you meet and socialize with your fellows, have a meal, a few laughs and vote on different things from how to upkeep the lodge building to which charities to help out. The meetings are highly ritualized but fun. It also provides a lot of opportunities to be social. Aside from the meeting i'm usually doing one other masonic thing a month. Last night the wife and i went to a fundraising for the masonic youth groups where we had prime rib and prawns and scratched our social itch. It's a really good way to keep meeting people if you're very busy with work or if you have a baby at home. Of course in my jurisdiction the elderly men outnumber us young ones but i don't mind. I've even had the opportunity to travel to other parts of the state i would have never gone to to help out with rituals. It's good fun and worth looking into if you want a place to be social and be part of an organization that helps each other and the community.
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Feb 17, 2014 16:58
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I usually explain it like this... there are three aspects of Freemasonry: truth, relief, and fellowship. Some members are more interested in one aspect than the others. If you want to put effort into truth and study the degree rituals and the esoteric/philosophical meaning of it all, you can find that. If you want to put effort into relief, and help out a charity, or a fellow brother's widow or orphan, you can find that. Or, if you want to put effort into fellowship and simple have a dinner with brothers, or come out on a Saturday morning to a BBQ cookout, you can certainly find that. Freemasonry is something different to every man, but it often boils down to philosophical & moral teachings, charity & monetary relief, and brother love & friendship.
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Feb 17, 2014 17:24
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Awesome replies. That helps me wrap my mind around it because I am Catholic. On one hand, both KoC and Freemasonry draw me for very similar reasons, but I guess I'm just wondering why choose one over the other if both are similar in practice, ie, KoC holds meetings, dinners, does charity work, has fairly ritualistic overtones, etc. On the other hand I'm finding myself more and more interested in Taoist beliefs, so much so I'm reading Tao Te Ching translations. I'm far from calling myself a Taoist but some of it clicks for me in one way or another. So what is the Freemasonry view on non-theist belief systems like Taoism? They have 'dieties', but their view of life is steeped in the mystery of the Dao, that it's something that mortals can never understand. Is that something that's allowed in Freemasonry? Cause it sure as gently caress doesn't coincide with Christian beliefs.
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Feb 17, 2014 17:55
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Generally, it's kind of nebulous, and you'll get different responses from different people. Personally, I have a much less tenuous definition of "God" than most would. But, the one question you're asked before being initiated, is if you believe in a higher power that rewards good and punishes evil. The "rewards good" aspect is normally defined in the context of an afterlife, as that's how it's normally referred to in the ritual or in prayers, etc. However, the only answer you're required to give is "yes" or "no", and no respectable brother will ask you any more than that. I've done a lot of study on Kabbalah, Hermeticism, Gnosticism, and to a lesser extent Sufism, so my view of "God" is very ... abstract. But, at the end of the day, I can answer "yes" to the question above, and I can refer to that higher power as "God," and that's what matters. The beauty of the Masonic rituals is that beauty and truth can be found in them no matter what your dogma or creed. I can't speak to the KoC rituals since I don't know them, but would imagine that they're much more focused on Catholic aspects. Just my two cents 
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Feb 17, 2014 19:07
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Who Dat posted:
Let me put it this way... a Taoist friend of mine at Lodge lent me his copy of the Tao Te Ching.
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Feb 17, 2014 20:02
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runupon cracker posted:Let me put it this way... a Taoist friend of mine at Lodge lent me his copy of the Tao Te Ching. I know in lodge it is forbidden to discuss religion/politics, but how is it viewed out of lodge? If it's used to increase fellowship or understanding and not as a debate material or whatever is it okay?
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Feb 17, 2014 20:39
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PrinceRandom posted:I know in lodge it is forbidden to discuss religion/politics, but how is it viewed out of lodge? If it's used to increase fellowship or understanding and not as a debate material or whatever is it okay? You can talk about anything outside of the lodge. We just talk about stuff we would normally otherwise talk about. So if two brothers had an interest in religion it wouldn't be strange for them to talk about it outside of the lodge.
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Feb 17, 2014 21:00
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PrinceRandom posted:I know in lodge it is forbidden to discuss religion/politics, but how is it viewed out of lodge? If it's used to increase fellowship or understanding and not as a debate material or whatever is it okay? It's generally all cool, just don't be a dick about it. Individual Lodge practices may vary. And I'm Diest as gently caress, nobody cares. As long as you aren't in Florida or some parts of Texas, you'll do fine. As for us or the KoC, I'd personally say the Freemasons, I'm willing to bet we have better food.
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Feb 17, 2014 21:01
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