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That's my entire stance on it. People have to be willing to forgive at some point or we will be fighting the same war over and over until there's no one left to fight it. I don't want Asia to have to go through what Europe did to stop it.
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Feb 2, 2014 15:50
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computer parts posted:Honestly I think it'd be kind of offensive if a country said to me "Okay, we murdered your people for decades and tried to conquer your country. What token can we do so you forget about this?" The number of people involved in those murders alive today must be quickly going towards zero which is probably a good sign that it's time to put things behind yourself.
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Feb 2, 2014 15:51
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mystes posted:This is a weird perspective for the Korean government to have considering that it was the one that asked the Japanese government for money and it accepted it. Park Chung-hee took that money and did other things, like plant trees. Japan has a huge "mea culpa" complex.
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Feb 2, 2014 17:31
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peak debt posted:The number of people involved in those murders alive today must be quickly going towards zero which is probably a good sign that it's time to put things behind yourself. If only things were that easy  I losta contract or two and had Japanese clients relocating their manufacturing in Vietnam and rest of SEA. Even if other places are have shittier infrastructure or more expensive prices, Japan can easily cherry pick different developing countries to set up their businesses.The recent spat about the rocks was caused by some ultra radical che t-shirt wearing Hong Konger. It was his 4th attempt getting past Hong Kong coast guard. It was a combination of PRC and ROC flags but China manipulated the situation for political ammunition. caberham fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Feb 2, 2014 |
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Feb 2, 2014 17:43
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What do people in Japan think about the recent Indian-Japanese lovefest that seems to be saturating the international press?
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Feb 2, 2014 19:21
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I can't find anything on the BBC, CNN, or local Japanese news websites, so do you have a link or anything for that? I have no idea what you're talking about unless you mean the nuclear cooperation stuff that's been going on for a while, in which case the answer is "aside from some vocal critics/supporters, people generally don't care".
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Feb 2, 2014 21:55
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http://japandailypress.com/japans-pm-abe-to-give-loans-worth-2-billion-to-india-2443027/quote:Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe is expected to announce low-interest loans to India when he visits the country this week. Abe will meet with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh during a three-day trip, along with some Japanese businessmen. The loans totaling $2 billion (210 billion yen) will be used for energy conservation projects and construction of subway lines in the country.
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Feb 2, 2014 21:58
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Well, to give you an idea, the local newspaper (Nishi Nippon) only gives hits for: "Abe returns from India, attends some ceremony", "Abe attends military parade in India", and "Abe goes to India to strengthen economic, security ties" with nary an article (rather, only a brief mention in the last linked article) about the actual loan stuff, so I'm going to go with "aside from some vocal supporters/critics, people generally don't care". I think most people are generally too busy to worry about overall foreign policy moves like this since it might as well fall into the category of foreign aid, which Japan is huge on to begin with. Edit: hey, found an article on it. Sheep fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Feb 2, 2014 |
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Feb 2, 2014 22:18
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caberham posted:The recent spat about the rocks was caused by some ultra radical che t-shirt wearing Hong Konger. It was his 4th attempt getting past Hong Kong coast guard. It was a combination of PRC and ROC flags but China manipulated the situation for political ammunition. Haha where did you get this from? Unless you're referring to a different spat than what I am thinking of. Anyway, more great things are coming out of Abe's personally appointed NHK board members: At the same time Abe is actively pursuing changing the interpretation of Japan's constitution to allow collective defense, a deeply unpopular move much like his recent secrecy bill. It's even unpopular with his own supporters! http://ajw.asahi.com/article/behind_news/politics/AJ201308260110 I know Abe has a lot of leeway thanks to his seemingly effective economic policies but I hope the japanese people, who are on the whole pretty anti-conflict, get tired of his poo poo soon.
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Feb 6, 2014 06:58
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It would be nice to get rid of Abe but as long as people somehow feel their personal situations are improving they're generally willing to overlook a lot of terrible things.
Sheep fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Feb 6, 2014 |
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Feb 6, 2014 14:13
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Funny you mention that. Japan Real Wages Fall to Global Recession Low in Abe Risk quote:Japan’s base wages adjusted for inflation last year matched a 16-year low in 2009 when the world was gripped by recession, posing a risk to consumer spending as the nation girds for a higher consumption tax. If the media picks this up and runs with it well enough, it may prove toxic to him. If the Topix/Nikkei start to fall too that will hurt as well. Also doesn't help that foreign investors have started to think Japan isn't worth the money either. Foreigners Dump Most Japanese Stocks Since 2010 (Note: Its a ZeroHedge article, they're economic, apocalyptic loonies in their own right, but the data is at least valid[From Bloomberg]) Either way. Japan is probably screwed if wage/salary doesn't rise. I've never felt politicians have been very keen to reverse tax law and when you consider this was written and pushed by the DPJ and then signed off and supported (with some 'reluctant' grand-standing) by the LDP after the DPJ were kicked out... ya, people are kind of screwed.
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Feb 6, 2014 15:53
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I agree, keidanren has been stonewalling wage hikes since ... well, as long as I've been paying attention. But all that said, "personal situation" isn't solely confined to wages - lots of other things like health care, housing, infrastructure, and all of that figure in pretty well and remain at a quite high standard. It's surprisingly easy to lead a comparably comfortable life in Japan even on absolutely terrible wages, especially since many people can just live at home with their parents in perpetuity, which helps those wages go much farther than they would otherwise. Add in the general passivity and apathy of the (especially younger) population and there you are.
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Feb 6, 2014 17:37
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Zo posted:Anyway, more great things are coming out of Abe's personally appointed NHK board members:
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Feb 6, 2014 22:40
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mystes posted:I'm not sure this is really news since Hyakuta was already a known revisionist/Nanjing denier. Also he believes that children shouldn't be taught that Japan did bad stuff in the past. Has he held (more or less) public office positions before? I thought he was just an outspoken author previously. The big outrage here seems more due to his position, direct relation to Abe, and the government's "meh" response - compared to much of Europe where holocaust denial is, you know, a literal crime.
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Feb 7, 2014 03:05
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Zo posted:Has he held (more or less) public office positions before? I thought he was just an outspoken author previously. The actual news probably should have been that Abe appointed a known revisionist to the NHK board back when that actually happened, but nobody would have cared then. mystes fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Feb 7, 2014 |
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Feb 7, 2014 03:59
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mystes posted:No, but I mean I think he had already made his opinions clear before he was appointed and also between when he was appointed and the present, so it's sort of silly to suddenly take him saying the exact same things he has been saying and presenting it as some sort of new scandal just because this instance is right after Momii's press conference, but the way newspapers work that's the only way they get to report it. I don't think it's silly at all, since he's in a representative position now. It's typical for people to at least pretend to be more neutral once in office. It's analogous to Abe, who frequently visits the Yasukuni shrine when he's not prime minister, but stops the visits during his terms as PM - until this latest visit of course. Following your logic I guess you think all the outrage for that is also silly and should be a non-story? You're entitled to think that of course but many evidentally do not.
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Feb 7, 2014 04:09
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He's been posting nanjing denial stuff as well as lots of other crazy stuff on Twitter for months since he was appointed. Are we to assume that the government's official position is that the evil US brainwashed Japan with a mysterious "War Guilt Information Program" after WWII as well? Or that the branding of Japanese soldiers as war criminals was illegal and just an attempt by the US to justify its massacre of innocent Japanese citizens?
mystes fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Feb 7, 2014 |
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Feb 7, 2014 04:47
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Zo posted:I don't think it's silly at all, since he's in a representative position now. It's typical for people to at least pretend to be more neutral once in office. Well, alright, if you're so keen on making a storm about it, what do you propose that the Japanese population should actually do about it -- keeping in mind their education system has for the last fifty years rather coddled most into never questioning authority, to always exert patience, and that true happiness lies with looking cute and drinking beer? Over half the population didn't even vote at all because of sheer apathy because, largely, no one is remotely inclined to give a poo poo about it for reasons largely due to societal environment. It's silently condoning the revisionists in some sense, yes, but no one is outraging because they've been raised to not give a poo poo, and largely due to being isolated and homogeneous they can do it. Us foreigners can bitch about it all we want and we do, but what exactly are you expecting a population like this to do; suddenly start to listen to us after years of 'you aren't Japanese and will never understand our vast cultural nuances'? Suddenly expect everyone to appreciate human rights when everyone's fed  from preschool? There won't be an uprising until some really incredible poo poo hits the fan.
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Feb 7, 2014 05:02
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Reverend Cheddar posted:There won't be an uprising until some really incredible poo poo hits the fan. The triple threat disaster didn't work aside from the no nuke crap that has caused our electric bills to go up. Let's see if the failure of Abenomics will do anything.
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Feb 7, 2014 06:32
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What are they going to do? Vote for something other than the LDP again? They already tried that a couple years ago and things weren't fixed right loving immediately so it was back to a one-party state again.
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Feb 7, 2014 08:30
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The question you guys are discussing is at the heart of many postwar commentators who are disappointed with the way Japanese democracy turned out, including John Dower and Sheldon Garon at Princeton. There is some idea that the right wing elements of the LDP (and those that support them) are actually constrained by other elements of Japanese civic life. Basically the thought is that if they ever ACTUALLY try to do anything besides shoot their mouths off then people won't stand for it. A few months ago when Barefoot Gen was taken out of a certain school's library in Ishikawa-ken, the school board received literally thousands of letters from across the country telling them what loving idiots they were. It turned out the suggestion to take it out was put forward by one stupid revisionst. The decision was quickly reversed. Hence you have this tension between revisionists who actually hold them positions of power and some sort of "other" power in form of popular protest and citizen activism that might take of place of election punishments.
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Feb 7, 2014 09:47
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The party in power doesn't even matter. The government was designed to be mostly run by the basically unaccountable bureaucracy before the war. After the war they just picked up where they left off.
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Feb 7, 2014 15:12
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That's basically what I learned in my Japan Govt. class in college. While the politicians write laws, they are written to be so vague and wishy-washy. The point being that they want the bureaucrats to handle the finer details. In addition, many laws are written and suggested by the bureaucrats as well. Most politicians know nothing about the stuff they sit on committees and the ministries they over see. In other words, the people really setting the 'current' for the boat that is 'a bill', are the experts/bureaucrats. I suspect this isn't limited to just Japan though, I figure its true in most Representative democracies these days. After all, consider that most politicians aren't Ph.D holders in sciences or education, they are generally law degree holders. The biggest thing I've always wondered about in Japan is how much the Overton Window really factors into politics in Japan. There is a general day-to-day apathy toward politics in Japan so unless its a huge thing, I can see politicians getting away with a fair bit of stuff. I think that is the only main difference between Japan and the US. Our news cycles revolve around the fighting between Dems and GOP and whose side is better. The media outlets are different in Japan in that right. Japan and the US have nearly identical voter turnout rates, so in both places, people just don't care enough to turnout to vote.
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Feb 7, 2014 16:53
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Kenishi posted:The party in power doesn't even matter. I'd argue that it really does, especially before 1994. If it didn't the DPJ would have had smooth sailing during its brief tenure. But I do think you're on to something in the Japanese political structure that seems have kept power in bureaucratic wings. That's one of the key elements of Johnson's developmental state theory after all. Kenishi posted:That's basically what I learned in my Japan Govt. class in college. Politicians who are/were members of the various "tribes" actually have very specialized and advanced policy knowledge, the equal of their counterparts in the various ministries. I'm not sure it's helpful to assign the politicians a stereotype of bumbling idiots who don't really know what laws they write. Many of them are very good at what they do. Of course, the antithesis of this is what the DPJ tried to do with the dissolving of the advisory councils. THAT was a true case of the blind leading the 40/40 vision havers. I think the real consequence of the short laws that the Diet typically drafts is exactly what you've identified: the bureaucracy is given centralized control of certain issues. This was especially true in the 1960s when MITI was running full steam ahead. As for voter turnout, at the height of the LDP's power in the 80s voter turnout was 75%. Saying that people just didn't have a choice in the matter doesn't really seem like a satisfactory answer to why the LDP was kept in power for so long by so many people. Typically commentators provide a mix of about 9 different reasons for the LDP's dominance. 1. Economic growth 2. Foreign policy realism 3. Business-agriculture alliance 4. Use of political "resources" (aka clientelism) 5. Flexibility/adaptation 6. Fragmentation of the opposition 7. Decentralization of party structure and ideology 8. Party Organization 9. Electoral System As for the Overton window, it's possible is plays a very big role. See reason #5 on the list. The LDP is possibly the most ruthlessly pragmatic party in existence and has been since about 1960. After Kishi's government was brought down by the ANPO riots, the LDP almost immediately made a policy focus shift to only talk about economic prosperity instead of the constitutional revisionism that Kishi wanted to do. In the 1970s during the great pollution scandals, the LDP realized how vulnerable it was electorally and took to criticizing polluting corporations and changed laws to make them clean their poo poo up. Of course it took almost the entire decade for them to come around to this position, but the point is that they eventually did because they realized it was in their best interests. The LDP is acutely aware of what is and isn't politically possible in regards to the Japanese public. Whether or not idiots like Abe ignore the common wisdom is another matter entirely.
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Feb 7, 2014 19:28
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Bi-leng Kin (Kin Birei), who's close friends with Abe, apparently remarked on the TV show たかじんのそこまで言って委員会 on Sunday that she thought Obama wasn't a good enough politician that he would have been able to get elected if he was white. Abe sure keeps good company. mystes fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Feb 26, 2014 |
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Feb 26, 2014 02:34
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mystes posted:Bi-leng Kin (Kin Birei), who's close friends with Abe, apparently remarked on the TV show たかじんのそこまで言って委員会 on Sunday that she thought Obama wasn't a good enough politician that he would have been able to get elected if he was white. Wait, so she thinks being white is a disadvantage to getting elected in the US?  What bizarro world is this?
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Feb 26, 2014 03:30
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Genpei Turtle posted:Wait, so she thinks being white is a disadvantage to getting elected in the US? Did she watch some translation of Fox News and buy into the Fox News/Ann Coulter line that Obama only got elected because of white guilt.
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Feb 26, 2014 03:36
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mystes posted:Bi-leng Kin (Kin Birei), who's close friends with Abe, apparently remarked on the TV show たかじんのそこまで言って委員会 on Sunday that she thought Obama wasn't a good enough politician that he would have been able to get elected if he was white. Son-san wasn't a good enough businessman that Softbank would have succeeded if he wasn't Korean.
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Feb 26, 2014 03:40
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:Did she watch some translation of Fox News and buy into the Fox News/Ann Coulter line that Obama only got elected because of white guilt.  against Obama or something.
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Feb 26, 2014 04:32
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There's definitely been a spillover of right-wing Western rhetoric into East Asia, like ~netizens~ in Korea citing Daily Mail articles to show that multiculturalism (i.e. treating Vietnamese immigrants like human beings) is bad
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Feb 26, 2014 04:44
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I didn't expect to see people talking about the Jewish conspiracy on 2ch's news forum but I have.
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Feb 26, 2014 04:56
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After what happened with the copies of Diary of a Young Girl I'm not in the least bit surprised by that. (Refer: A skosh alarming. Haven't seen it on major news channels; maybe just not watching the right ones though )
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Feb 26, 2014 05:13
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Samurai Sanders posted:I didn't expect to see people talking about the Jewish conspiracy on 2ch's news forum but I have. Wasn't a lot of the Japanese upper class completely duped by 'The Protocols of the Elders of Zion' in the 20's and 30's? Of course they weren't really anti-Semitic about it, they just decided to find and make friends with the all powerful Jewish hierarchy. Could it be strains of that, or is it anti-Semitism that rolled in more recently?
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Feb 26, 2014 05:42
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On a slightly lighter note: http://world.time.com/2014/02/25/japan-comfort-women-memorials/ quote:At a Tokyo press conference Tuesday, opponents said the memorial spread “false propaganda” and has resulted in bullying, harassment and discrimination against Japanese residents in the Glendale area. “Japanese schoolchildren are suffering from bullying by Koreans. Some of them told us they feel anxiety because they must hide being Japanese. Korean people are presenting this as a human rights issue, but this can only lead to a new conflict of racial discrimination,” said Yoshiko Matsuura, a Tokyo-area assemblywoman and representative of a conservative group called the Japan Coalition of Legislators Against Fabricated History. The right wing fanatics are not satisfied with just quietly whitewashing history at home anymore apparently, and have leveled up to obnoxiously aggressive whitewashing. When the japanese government pulls moves like this it really makes all their apologies seem like big jokes. "Yes we are very sorry about this thing that never happened".
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Feb 26, 2014 06:26
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Zo posted:On a slightly lighter note: mystes fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Feb 26, 2014 |
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Feb 26, 2014 06:43
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mystes posted:Don't worry, they want to retract the Kono statement, too. They just had one of the people involved with researching the issue when the statement was issued testify before the Diet on the 20th that there was no evidence and they just did it to appease Korea. Yeah I read that as well, but I thought there would be very little chance for them to actually go through with the retraction. Wouldn't be the first time the Abe administration surprised me though.
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Feb 26, 2014 07:03
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Zo posted:Yeah I read that as well, but I thought there would be very little chance for them to actually go through with the retraction. Well when the Korean narrative is that they have "never" apologized, its not a huge surprise that they would then consider dropping it. It would be loving stupid, but Abe seems to be getting more and more stupid as time goes by.
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Feb 26, 2014 08:20
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Wibbleman posted:Well when the Korean narrative is that they have "never" apologized, its not a huge surprise that they would then consider dropping it. It would be loving stupid, but Abe seems to be getting more and more stupid as time goes by. he's just the figurehead representative of a powerful faction of wingnuts and dingbats. it's not that abe is getting more stupid, it's that he's becoming less and less willing to at least maintain a diplomatic level of tact. when the facade isn't working, impatient types will just drop the facade altogether.
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Feb 26, 2014 09:47
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Zo posted:The right wing fanatics are not satisfied with just quietly whitewashing history at home anymore apparently, and have leveled up to obnoxiously aggressive whitewashing. When the japanese government pulls moves like this it really makes all their apologies seem like big jokes. "Yes we are very sorry about this thing that never happened". "And even if it did happen we shouldn't talk about it because it might make people feel bad."
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Feb 26, 2014 10:17
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China's biggest ally in raising awareness of Nanjing and sex slaves is the Japanese right wing.
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Feb 26, 2014 12:01
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