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DrSunshine posted:HЗДЯTS ФF IЯФИ IV: УЦЯI'S ЯЗVЗИGЗ You don't even know how much money I would throw at Paradox if they made a Yuri's Revenge DLC. If only to see the tears on the forum as Paradox lights history on fire.
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Feb 7, 2014 23:45
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Farecoal posted:Comic Sans For the Balkans, of course. Piss off as many people as possible, all at once. But seriously, Paradox should just do it as a packaged font. The text is being dynamically generated anyway.
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Feb 7, 2014 23:49
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Guildencrantz posted:I'm more concerned with those monitor photos we saw earlier. The ones that had arrows everywhere. Yeah, it looks neat, but if I cared about the way a game looks I'd buy a console and play Bioshock or something. The point of HoI has always been realism and the fantastic amount of detail. While the idea of a "battle plan" system is pretty cool, I suspect what we've seen so far indicates that the arrows are directly correlated with what's happening and probably show actual troop movements. Took me a paragraph and a half to be sure you were joking. Spookily plausible. The Nozzle posted:Just use the map as an excuse to piss of pedantic nerds everywhere. Fake Cyrillic for the Comintern. Wade Giles in China. A random mishmash of Papyrus and Impact fonts for everyone else. Wade-Giles is a font, now?
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Feb 7, 2014 23:54
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DStecks posted:For the Balkans, of course. Piss off as many people as possible, all at once.
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Feb 8, 2014 00:08
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All Elite SS units get comic sans font and hot pink counters.
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Feb 8, 2014 00:16
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PleasingFungus posted:Wade-Giles is a font, now? It may not be a font, but it would definitely succeed at irritating lots of people. Or if you really want to make an effort, use that weird Guomindang romanization from the '30s
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Feb 8, 2014 00:59
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blackmongoose posted:It may not be a font, but it would definitely succeed at irritating lots of people. Or if you really want to make an effort, use that weird Guomindang romanization from the '30s Let's nip this all in the bud and call China "Heathen Chinee", Germany "Krautland", USA "USA! USA!" and so on.
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Feb 8, 2014 01:20
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Dibujante posted:Let's nip this all in the bud and call China "Heathen Chinee", Germany "Krautland", USA "USA! USA!" and so on. Well I know the first mod *I'M* making when Hearts of Iron IV comes out.
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Feb 8, 2014 01:33
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I like that map where countries are colour coded by how barbaric they are (dark = bad obviously) and London and Paris are literally shining with pure white civilising light.
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Feb 8, 2014 01:44
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Just level with me here, will The Byzantine Empire be formable?
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Feb 8, 2014 01:49
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RabidWeasel posted:I like that map where countries are colour coded by how barbaric they are (dark = bad obviously) and London and Paris are literally shining with pure white civilising light.   Edit: Better version. Victoria 3 needs to have this. 
DrSunshine fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Feb 8, 2014 |
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Feb 8, 2014 01:53
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RabidWeasel posted:I like that map where countries are colour coded by how barbaric they are (dark = bad obviously) and London and Paris are literally shining with pure white civilising light. I loving love that map. Every time I look at it I find some other new little bit of racism. Just last night I looked at it and noticed that Italy and Greece are only civilised, rather than Enlightened like the rest of Europe, and Russia is Barbarous except in the cities which are Enlightened. Also, western North America is labelled "Unsubdued Indians."
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Feb 8, 2014 01:55
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Kersch posted:Just level with me here, will The Byzantine Empire be formable? Serbia, Turkey, Russia, Bulgaria, Germany, and Italy all confirmed to able to form the Byzantine Empire. Greece? Why would they be able to form it???
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Feb 8, 2014 01:55
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Farecoal posted:Serbia, Turkey, Russia, Bulgaria, Germany, and Italy all confirmed to able to form the Byzantine Empire. The sad part is that I could see someone on the Paradox forums seriousposting this
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Feb 8, 2014 02:13
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SERIOUSPOST: not sure how this map is meaningfully different from the EU Westernization system.
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Feb 8, 2014 02:19
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Darkrenown posted:This is our pre-Alpha messup, there's a line in the DD at the end and a massive warning on the image itself A Buttery Pastry posted:Add Fraktur letters for Germany. unwantedplatypus posted:I'm still bitter we didn't get a space 4X *e* But for serious now, given PDS's new penchant to openly joke around with their work, what's the chance of a HoI4 setting/DLC where WWII isn't railroaded but everyone is still hyper-aggressive and fascist. Like letting Mussolini be the really belligerent one, or having the Polish junta invade Hungary or something (the latter was a legit fear, and is what Germans played upon to get Hungary to fall into line). Wolfgang Pauli fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Feb 8, 2014 |
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Feb 8, 2014 02:26
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Just rockets, no one mentioned space! And the name was taken from a different Armstong 
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Feb 8, 2014 02:29
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One Volk, One Byzantium, One Basileius. Make it happen Paradox.
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Feb 8, 2014 02:30
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The empire will stand for [another] 1000 years!
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Feb 8, 2014 02:31
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catlord posted:I loving love that map. Every time I look at it I find some other new little bit of racism. Just last night I looked at it and noticed that Italy and Greece are only civilised, rather than Enlightened like the rest of Europe, and Russia is Barbarous except in the cities which are Enlightened. Also, western North America is labelled "Unsubdued Indians." Ireland is also marked as civilized. Given that this map seems to be British, I'm surprised they weren't put down as barbarous  .E: Also I would love a 'form Byzantine Empire' decision. In fact I want every nation to have it. And they can do it at any time. You're Communist China, minding your on business and then boom, you become Byzantine.
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Feb 8, 2014 02:33
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Darkrenown posted:Just rockets, no one mentioned space! And the name was taken from a different Armstong You gave us Armstrong, but you didn't give us the raspy-voiced trumpet-playing grand strategy game that name implied. Where the hell is my Hearts of Satchmo: What A Wonderful World??? 
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Feb 8, 2014 02:34
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DrProsek posted:Ireland is also marked as civilized. Given that this map seems to be British, I'm surprised they weren't put down as barbarous It's American  (see the attribution at the bottom)
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Feb 8, 2014 02:35
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DStecks posted:SERIOUSPOST: not sure how this map is meaningfully different from the EU Westernization system. Darkrenown posted:Just rockets, no one mentioned space! And the name was taken from a different Armstong DrProsek posted:E: Also I would love a 'form Byzantine Empire' decision. In fact I want every nation to have it. And they can do it at any time. You're Communist China, minding your on business and then boom, you become Byzantine. Wolfgang Pauli fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Feb 8, 2014 |
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Feb 8, 2014 02:38
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catlord posted:I loving love that map. Every time I look at it I find some other new little bit of racism. Just last night I looked at it and noticed that Italy and Greece are only civilised, rather than Enlightened like the rest of Europe, and Russia is Barbarous except in the cities which are Enlightened. Also, western North America is labelled "Unsubdued Indians." ABYSSINIA CORRUPT CHRISTIANITY
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Feb 8, 2014 02:39
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Miaphysites are now their own branch of Christianity, and have been since at least The Old Gods (when I started playing). Dunno when specifically it was changed (in fact I didn't know it was ever an Orthodox heresy  )
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Feb 8, 2014 02:40
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DStecks posted:SERIOUSPOST: not sure how this map is meaningfully different from the EU Westernization system. BRB - Making minimod that changes localization of "Muslim" to "Mahometan".
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Feb 8, 2014 02:48
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The westernization system is seriously racist. Tech progression is just inherently slower for non-Europeans, and better tech can only spread outward from Europe. I try not to jump on things like this when they're a consequence of an attempt at historical realism, but the way Paradox handles it is just inexcusable. If I were designing a system that wasn't, you know, racist as gently caress, I'd just steal Civilization's tech tree concept, and simply start Europe off with it halfway completed. You could implement tech trading as a concept; maybe missionaries are more effective in countries that you've given tech to or something. It would be interesting if there were legit gameplay reasons for European countries to Westernize other countries, instead of it being purely disadvantageous to aspiring empires.
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Feb 8, 2014 03:07
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DStecks posted:If I were designing a system that wasn't, you know, racist as gently caress, I'd just steal Civilization's tech tree concept, and simply start Europe off with it halfway completed. But Europe wasn't ahead of everyone else in 1444. Hell, they were behind their neighbors in some cases. How do you replicate the burst of the Renaissance without either boosting Europe to the detriment of elsewhere or crippling everyone else for the sake of Europe?
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Feb 8, 2014 03:14
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Ofaloaf posted:But Europe wasn't ahead of everyone else in 1444. Hell, they were behind their neighbors in some cases. Well, that's the great thing about a tech tree: you can pick and choose who gets what. Ofaloaf posted:How do you replicate the burst of the Renaissance without either boosting Europe to the detriment of elsewhere or crippling everyone else for the sake of Europe? How is this a problem the current system doesn't have?
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Feb 8, 2014 03:19
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Ofaloaf posted:But Europe wasn't ahead of everyone else in 1444. Hell, they were behind their neighbors in some cases. How do you replicate the burst of the Renaissance without either boosting Europe to the detriment of elsewhere or crippling everyone else for the sake of Europe? Wolfgang Pauli fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Feb 8, 2014 |
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Feb 8, 2014 03:23
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The Nozzle posted:Just use the map as an excuse to piss of pedantic nerds everywhere. Fake Cyrillic for the Comintern. Wade Giles in China. A random mishmash of Papyrus and Impact fonts for everyone else. Also make "unpretty" borders to piss off goons 
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Feb 8, 2014 03:27
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Farecoal posted:Comic Sans Used exclusively to mark Hitler's current location. catlord posted:I loving love that map. Every time I look at it I find some other new little bit of racism. Just last night I looked at it and noticed that Italy and Greece are only civilised, rather than Enlightened like the rest of Europe, and Russia is Barbarous except in the cities which are Enlightened. Also, western North America is labelled "Unsubdued Indians." Italy is civilized in the central european map, but Corsica and Sardinia aren't. I like HINDOOSTAN and BALOOCHISTAN, and Hayti: Free Africans.
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Feb 8, 2014 03:29
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Wolfgang Pauli posted:Colonization and the Portuguese moving in on Indian Ocean trade. Europe didn't advance economically or technologically by tapping the mysteries of ancients who didn't know about that poo poo either, they did it by importing that technology from abroad and using their amassed wealth to further invest in the military and cultural institutions that enforced that flow of wealth. The Renaissance was enormously responsible for breaking the immobilized society of the middle ages, but even the knowledge of the Greeks came more from the Arab world than from archeological discovery. That's why I think a static trade route system is incredibly ineffective. Even if you're going to keep sinks, throw China and India one or two and allow sufficient trade power to reverse the flow. Well there are arguments to the effect that the specific methods developed in Europe during the scientific revolution were uniquely capable of developing technological advances in a way that other comparable ideas of science weren't. I know Joel Mokyr has written quite a lot of stuff comparing European and Chinese science, where the conclusion is more or less that Chinese ideas of science were good for inventing new technologies within specific parameters while European science focused on revolutionising the underlying parameters of theory itself (which he calls lambda and omega respectively). I think if you view it from that cultural history/history of science perspective the broad outlines of Paradox's system aren't necessarily 'racist', but it only really makes sense for the divergence to appear in the Renaissance on.
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Feb 8, 2014 03:39
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DStecks posted:How is this a problem the current system doesn't have? It's not? Wolfgang Pauli posted:Colonization and the Portuguese moving in on Indian Ocean trade. Europe didn't advance economically or technologically by tapping the mysteries of ancients who didn't know about that poo poo either, they did it by importing that technology from abroad and using their amassed wealth to further invest in the military and cultural institutions that enforced that flow of wealth. The Renaissance was enormously responsible for breaking the immobilized society of the middle ages, but even the knowledge of the Greeks came more from the Arab world than from archeological discovery. That's why I think a static trade route system is incredibly ineffective. Even if you're going to keep sinks, throw China and India one or two and allow sufficient trade power to reverse the flow. Before changing to a non-static trade system, you'd need trade to actually influence tech in a meaningful way, if you're going to replace tech groups. (Ironically, the old income-based tech system in EU3 would accomplish this fantastically.)
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Feb 8, 2014 03:44
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Darkrenown posted:Just rockets, no one mentioned space! And the name was taken from a different Armstong I'm now expecting events where Hitler takes drugs to win the Battle of Tour de France. Seven times.
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Feb 8, 2014 03:48
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catlord posted:I loving love that map. Every time I look at it I find some other new little bit of racism. Just last night I looked at it and noticed that Italy and Greece are only civilised, rather than Enlightened like the rest of Europe, and Russia is Barbarous except in the cities which are Enlightened. Also, western North America is labelled "Unsubdued Indians." I'm not sure if it's just an artifact of the art or not, but the Central Europe inset kinda makes it look like Switzerland is merely civilized instead of enlightened.
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Feb 8, 2014 03:50
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Wolfgang Pauli posted:Colonization and the Portuguese moving in on Indian Ocean trade. Europe didn't advance economically or technologically by tapping the mysteries of ancients who didn't know about that poo poo either, they did it by importing that technology from abroad and using their amassed wealth to further invest in the military and cultural institutions that enforced that flow of wealth. The Renaissance was enormously responsible for breaking the immobilized society of the middle ages, but even the knowledge of the Greeks came more from the Arab world than from archeological discovery. That's why I think a static trade route system is incredibly ineffective. Even if you're going to keep sinks, throw China and India one or two and allow sufficient trade power to reverse the flow. This is a really bad explanation. It's superficially material and reasonable/objective but is essentially a just-so story that happens to fit your political views. What technology imported from abroad was significant? Why did Europe adapt and improve it above the people who had it first? Why was European's increased wealth so much more effective than it was for other countries that were far richer well into the period of Europe's rise or, in the case of China, until literally after the end of EU? Portugal and Spain despite receiving the majority of inflowing wealth were not exactly the centers of dynamism in the EU period, why was that and how do you represent it? The Renaissance is a nebulous cultural movement whose significance is highly debated and whose timing shows it as more of a response then a cause, also would a Renaisance tech modifier be better than the current Western? Also lol at calling the Middle Ages immobile. To the extent that we can explain Europe's domination. Its probably something along the lines of climatic/geographic factors, population pressure and immense Malthusian catatrosphe, political fragmentation, shifts in agricultural technology that increased surpluses for individual farmers which shifted political power both within a society and from south to north europe, and also nebulous cultural factors. These are all things that are completely out of the modeling of EU. The current modifier kinda sucks but it works to produce a pseudo-plausible history, nothing you said would. SickZip fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Feb 8, 2014 |
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Feb 8, 2014 04:09
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Wolfgang Pauli posted:Colonization and the Portuguese moving in on Indian Ocean trade. Europe didn't advance economically or technologically by tapping the mysteries of ancients who didn't know about that poo poo either, they did it by importing that technology from abroad and using their amassed wealth to further invest in the military and cultural institutions that enforced that flow of wealth. The Renaissance was enormously responsible for breaking the immobilized society of the middle ages, but even the knowledge of the Greeks came more from the Arab world than from archeological discovery. That's why I think a static trade route system is incredibly ineffective. Even if you're going to keep sinks, throw China and India one or two and allow sufficient trade power to reverse the flow. I can't believe this has actually been written, other than a kind of weird parody designed to make people who know and/or have studied history cry with laughter or despair. I really want to keep the cordiality that befits this fine thread but this kind of nonsense is an affront to it and I feel I have to speak out. (Warning, this may have levels of  )There are a lot of theories around regarding European technological development and why it pulled ahead of the rest of the world, and honestly there really isn't room to go into that in detail without de-railing to probational levels, but I haven't seen any serious historian in around 4 years of studying the subject to PHD level suggest something like 'Portugese imported technology from 'abroad' then used their 'amassed wealth' (Portugal had this?) to invest in military and cultural 'institutions' that enforced the fl- oh I can't loving go on. To use this type of reasoning as a basis for criticizing Paradox's otherwise decent (but basic) mechanics for a game needs to stop. Especially one which is trying to depict many, many nations in and out of Europe following a reasonably realistic course of history. I get it, we all want to sock it to racists and nationalists and sound like the most super liberal while slamming really interesting historic maps and game mechanics, but can we do it while keeping some semblance of factual basis when we sling out a load of rubbish like the above quote.
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Feb 8, 2014 04:16
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I always felt like the tech groups were meant to be a very generalized look at the different factors that lead to Europe being dominant around the middle to the end of the time period. Theyre really generalized because the engine cant even begin to simulate the millions of factors that caused it. Hell we can't even agree on what caused it (other than the fact that "Superior races" wasn't it). Complicating the system even further would probably drag the engine down even further. Although Europa Universalis turned into more of a sandbox following 2, and has really goofy situations crop up sometimes, players do expect some level of historical accuracy, and the native americans having guns and cannons before Europeans (Or if we wanna go alt history, China) brought the tech over would be hard to justify. I'm open to the idea of a new tech system but I dont think just letting the AI go hogwild with any tech really "fits" EU like it does Civ.
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Feb 8, 2014 04:19
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So I just installed HoI3 and all the expanions. I could never get into it at launch while I spent hundreds of hours in HoI2, EUIV, and CK2. I've heard that the AI in some mods is improved quite a bit, but there are a ton to choose from. Anyone got any preferences they wouldn't mind sharing?
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Feb 8, 2014 04:24
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