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slap me silly
Nov 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer
In a similar vein, USAA offers me a signature loan at 11% when my credit card with them has a 9% interest rate... I have been really happy with them though, including with a mortgage and a refinance.

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Cenodoxus
Mar 29, 2012

while [[ true ]] ; do
    pour()
done


I do practically all my banking through USAA. I have two credit cards, an (already paid off) auto loan, and all my insurance through them as well, and I've never had an issue up until this point. In my experience the rates have been great as well, so :shrug:.

That said, I talked to my agent who happens to handle a lot of USAA members and she said they do things a bit differently. I did mention that they didn't even ask for my statements, but all she could come up with on that was that my credit must good enough that they don't need to see statements until I act on the pre-whateverthefuck.

Anyway, at least I finally have a piece of paper with a magic number on it that looks official enough to accompany an offer. Thanks for the input!

Bloody Queef
Mar 23, 2012

by zen death robot

Cenodoxus posted:

I do practically all my banking through USAA. I have two credit cards, an (already paid off) auto loan, and all my insurance through them as well, and I've never had an issue up until this point. In my experience the rates have been great as well, so :shrug:.

That said, I talked to my agent who happens to handle a lot of USAA members and she said they do things a bit differently. I did mention that they didn't even ask for my statements, but all she could come up with on that was that my credit must good enough that they don't need to see statements until I act on the pre-whateverthefuck.

Anyway, at least I finally have a piece of paper with a magic number on it that looks official enough to accompany an offer. Thanks for the input!

Banks don't usually request statements during the preapproval process. Keep in mind it's a "If everything you told us is correct, and the winds don't change, we'll consider giving you an actual loan"

E: But if you're happy with your relationship, it is nice to have your paycheck direct deposit into the same bank your mortgage comes out of, payments post immediately, etc.

bartkusa
Sep 25, 2005

Air, Fire, Earth, Hope

Cranbe posted:

What's a good process for screening lenders and/or a good broker? I'm just in the begin-to-look phase.

Can anybody recommend a few in the Denver area?

(I know the topic is beaten to death periodically here, but it's a lot of pages to search through to find the discussion.)

The real estate brokerage I work for, Redfin, asks home-buyers to review their lenders, inspectors, etc, and we publish them all online.

We have a handful of reviews in Denver: http://www.redfin.com/buy-a-home/openbook/denver/home-loans

skipdogg posted:

This guy is in Denver and is an Upfront Mortgage broker.
http://www.reedmc.com/

Our one and only review of Reed, from 2012:

A 5-star review was posted:

"... Kevin is extremely transparent, accessible and communicative and you can be rest assured you aren't going to run into last minute hiccups with your loan. ... Kevin also has the most fair interest rates and fees that I was able to find. After a terrible experience with one of Redfin's "preferred" lenders, it was refreshing working with Kevin."

LogisticEarth
Mar 28, 2004

Someone once told me, "Time is a flat circle".
Goddamn sometimes I hate the whole buyers agent/sellers agent incentive crap. We found a house last weekend, and our agent contacted the seller's agent last Sunday. Seller's agent said he expected another offer coming in, but wasn't going to present any offers to the sellers until close of business on Monday. Our agent tells him to expect an offer from us. So we put our offer together, but before we send it in our agent calls again to get a handle on how many offers we're up against to see if we should tweak the numbers. Seller's agent says "whoops sorry I presented the other offer already and have verbal agreement from the sellers".

The contract wasn't signed yet, so we sent ours in anyway. But somehow the seller's agent drove through a blizzard and got the signatures on his offer. I'm not sure the sellers even saw ours. Fucker probably didn't want to split his commission and jerked us around.

Between this, getting scooped on another house by a cash buyer-landlord, and the other home that the owner just wanted way too much money, my wife and I are frustrated as hell. Do never buy indeed.

Bloody Queef
Mar 23, 2012

by zen death robot

LogisticEarth posted:

Goddamn sometimes I hate the whole buyers agent/sellers agent incentive crap. We found a house last weekend, and our agent contacted the seller's agent last Sunday. Seller's agent said he expected another offer coming in, but wasn't going to present any offers to the sellers until close of business on Monday. Our agent tells him to expect an offer from us. So we put our offer together, but before we send it in our agent calls again to get a handle on how many offers we're up against to see if we should tweak the numbers. Seller's agent says "whoops sorry I presented the other offer already and have verbal agreement from the sellers".

The contract wasn't signed yet, so we sent ours in anyway. But somehow the seller's agent drove through a blizzard and got the signatures on his offer. I'm not sure the sellers even saw ours. Fucker probably didn't want to split his commission and jerked us around.

Between this, getting scooped on another house by a cash buyer-landlord, and the other home that the owner just wanted way too much money, my wife and I are frustrated as hell. Do never buy indeed.

Try buying a short sale and dealing with buyer's agent, seller's agent AND the bank. It'll make your current situation seem like easy mode.

bartkusa
Sep 25, 2005

Air, Fire, Earth, Hope

LogisticEarth posted:

Goddamn sometimes I hate the whole buyers agent/sellers agent incentive crap. We found a house last weekend, and our agent contacted the seller's agent last Sunday. Seller's agent said he expected another offer coming in, but wasn't going to present any offers to the sellers until close of business on Monday. Our agent tells him to expect an offer from us. So we put our offer together, but before we send it in our agent calls again to get a handle on how many offers we're up against to see if we should tweak the numbers. Seller's agent says "whoops sorry I presented the other offer already and have verbal agreement from the sellers".

You might be able to complain to your state's/area's realtors association, lodging an ethics complaint. I have no idea what that would actually accomplish, though.

Also, you could tell the sellers this agent hid offers from them. They could turn around and sue him.

LogisticEarth
Mar 28, 2004

Someone once told me, "Time is a flat circle".

bartkusa posted:

You might be able to complain to your state's/area's realtors association, lodging an ethics complaint. I have no idea what that would actually accomplish, though.

Also, you could tell the sellers this agent hid offers from them. They could turn around and sue him.

I've considered that. But there's really little evidence aside from verbal communication. We also have no contact or relationship with the family that's selling so I'd have to be a bit of a stalker and contact them out of the blue to ask if they received our offer, or if their realtor indicated that there was the potential that another was on the way before they agreed/signed.

canyoneer
Sep 13, 2005


I only have canyoneyes for you

LogisticEarth posted:

I've considered that. But there's really little evidence aside from verbal communication. We also have no contact or relationship with the family that's selling so I'd have to be a bit of a stalker and contact them out of the blue to ask if they received our offer, or if their realtor indicated that there was the potential that another was on the way before they agreed/signed.

You may as well. You got screwed (couldn't buy the house you wanted at a more competitive bid) and the seller got screwed (didn't get the chance to see your offer that would have been a better offer for them).

That's breach of fiduciary duty, and turd realtors like that deserve to be run out of town on a rail the business.
If they want to pursue action, that's their choice. But I know if I were them that I'd like to know if my realtor was a scumbag.

Sephiroth_IRA
Mar 31, 2010
So my wife and I are going to go look at a town house tomorrow. The pictures on Zillow look good and it's basically what we want. A small 1b/1b that we could probably pay off completely in less than a year (for freedom) with a decent downpayment. The HOA is about $1404 a year so 1044 more than we already pay, for nothing.

Any advice? It seems like the owners still live there if that helps. I've never lived in a town house before but the few I've visited always seem nice. It's in an area both my wife and I like and will actually be closer to our jobs. The school system out there is great as well if we ever have kids.

The only issue is the current house we live in. Based on Zillow/Trulia we have about 5k-10k in equity and most realtors have told us that houses in my area are easy to sell. We both have jobs, an emergency fund and other sources of money we could use if we end up getting stuck with the mortgage on our current house a little while as we try and sell it.

Sephiroth_IRA fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Feb 8, 2014

adorai
Nov 2, 2002

10/27/04 Never forget
Grimey Drawer

LogisticEarth posted:

I've considered that. But there's really little evidence aside from verbal communication. We also have no contact or relationship with the family that's selling so I'd have to be a bit of a stalker and contact them out of the blue to ask if they received our offer, or if their realtor indicated that there was the potential that another was on the way before they agreed/signed.
You know their address. Just send them a letter.

Orange_Lazarus posted:

So my wife and I are going to go look at a town house tomorrow. The pictures on Zillow look good and it's basically what we want. A small 1b/1b that we could probably pay off completely in less than a year (for freedom) with a decent downpayment. The HOA is about $1404 a year so 1044 more than we already pay, for nothing.
Trash, snow removal, grass and landscaping, roof, siding, etc.. are not nothing.

Engineer Lenk
Aug 28, 2003

Mnogo losho e!

Orange_Lazarus posted:

So my wife and I are going to go look at a town house tomorrow. The pictures on Zillow look good and it's basically what we want. A small 1b/1b that we could probably pay off completely in less than a year (for freedom) with a decent downpayment. The HOA is about $1404 a year so 1044 more than we already pay, for nothing.

Any advice? It seems like the owners still live there if that helps. I've never lived in a town house before but the few I've visited always seem nice. It's in an area both my wife and I like and will actually be closer to our jobs. The school system out there is great as well if we ever have kids.

The only issue is the current house we live in. Based on Zillow/Trulia we have about 5k-10k in equity and most realtors have told us that houses in my area are easy to sell. We both have jobs, an emergency fund and other sources of money we could use if we end up getting stuck with the mortgage on our current house a little while as we try and sell it.

I wouldn't live in a townhouse again. Shared responsibilities for the roof/etc. with all my neighbors (some of whom were perpetually cash-strapped) meant that things got put off to the last minute and some of the maintenance didn't get done. With 5-10k in equity you should expect almost nothing after selling, just because of closing costs.

In addition, a 1br/1ba sounds like a horrible idea for a couple that's considering children. You're basically downsizing into a starter home/retirement home. If you threw all the money that would have gone into paying off the townhouse into your current mortgage, you can easily get your equity level up enough so that you could sell, rent a tiny apartment for a while, decide if you wanted to do small city living or small country living and then go buy a townhouse or plot of land and a trailer.

Sephiroth_IRA
Mar 31, 2010

adorai posted:

Trash, snow removal, grass and landscaping, roof, siding, etc.. are not nothing.

Yeah, what I meant was for $360 py they do nothing at my current HOA other than keep the pool clean, which I never use. I'm assuming (I'll definitely check) that they cut the grass and stuff at the town house since I'm paying a little over $1k more.

I wasn't aware of the shared responsibilities. So if one neighbor's roof caves in wouldn't his insurance just cover it? Why would I be affected?

The kids are the main reason I'm iffy. Even though I'm already living in a 1600 sqft home my wife and I really only use 2 rooms and the kitchen. Our living room, downstairs bath, guest room, and another bedroom are completely unused. I'd say we probably spend the majority of our time in 500-600 out of the 1600 total square feet. I figure we could move into that house, live cheap, have a kid and if it turns out we need a bigger place we'll just move. It seems like it would be really easy to resell.

If it's too small my wife will just shake her head no after we check the place out tomorrow.

Sephiroth_IRA fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Feb 8, 2014

Engineer Lenk
Aug 28, 2003

Mnogo losho e!

Orange_Lazarus posted:

I wasn't aware of the shared responsibilities. So if one neighbor's roof caves in wouldn't his insurance just cover it? Why would I be affected?

Some condo/townhouse setups have master insurance policies for the roof/exterior (walls-out) that's held by the association. Walls-in policies are held by individual owners. So for example when one of my neighbors flooded her bathroom and it needed to be stripped to the studs to fix, the HOA insurance policy was involved as well as her individual policy.

E: We actually moved from a (1300 sq foot) townhouse to a similarly-sized house with a much better layout (3 floor with split-level bottom floor to 1 story rambler). We were specifically looking for something without stairs, since that was a large barrier to using the space effectively.

Engineer Lenk fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Feb 8, 2014

Sephiroth_IRA
Mar 31, 2010
So you had to pay for some of that damage out of pocket or are you just saying that it affected your property value?

Yeah apparently the HOA for this place has one master HOA and then an HOA underneath that one. I suppose it's because it's a big area so I'm going through a lot of legal speak hoa pdfs atm. I'll speak to a few of the neighbors if I can.

edit: Also, a plus is that this town house is at the end of the building so I'll only have one wall to wall neighbor. It's a single floor and there's no one above me.

Sephiroth_IRA fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Feb 8, 2014

Engineer Lenk
Aug 28, 2003

Mnogo losho e!

Orange_Lazarus posted:

So you have to pay for some of that damage out of pocket or are you just saying that it affected your property value?

Neither exactly. It counted as a claim against the master policy on the HOA insurance, though, which led to a premium increase and necessitated higher dues.

Sephiroth_IRA
Mar 31, 2010
Well we went and looked at the place and were pleasantly surprised. The place was roomier than we expected and yeah it needs some work which would explain why the house is priced so low. I would be happy just getting the carpet thrown out and the wall repainted. The only reason the place looked bad in the pictures was because the renter has so much crap stored there. My wife also likes the patio if we get it pressure washed and fenced in a little bit for our dogs.

Our realtor suggested after we get preapproved we probably should offer a bit low (like 10%) less and then let them counter offer. I walked around the neighborhood a bit and talked to some people that lived there and they all seemed happy, many were renting so it makes it sound like it'll be easy to rent once we get it paid for. We also like the area because it's across the state line and we'll be moving into an area with lower taxes/better schools.

Apparently the next step is we need to get pre-approved for the loan which should be easy but my wife wants to see if we can get a lower interest rate at our credit union. The only problem is that I see they only offer 15 year fixed rates and not 30. Personally I'd rather get a 30 to act as a hedge and pay additional principal.

Just yell at me if any of the above sounds really stupid :)

SiGmA_X
May 3, 2004
SiGmA_X

Orange_Lazarus posted:

Well we went and looked at the place and were pleasantly surprised. The place was roomier than we expected and yeah it needs some work which would explain why the house is priced so low. I would be happy just getting the carpet thrown out and the wall repainted. The only reason the place looked bad in the pictures was because the renter has so much crap stored there. My wife also likes the patio if we get it pressure washed and fenced in a little bit for our dogs.

Our realtor suggested after we get preapproved we probably should offer a bit low (like 10%) less and then let them counter offer. I walked around the neighborhood a bit and talked to some people that lived there and they all seemed happy, many were renting so it makes it sound like it'll be easy to rent once we get it paid for. We also like the area because it's across the state line and we'll be moving into an area with lower taxes/better schools.

Apparently the next step is we need to get pre-approved for the loan which should be easy but my wife wants to see if we can get a lower interest rate at our credit union. The only problem is that I see they only offer 15 year fixed rates and not 30. Personally I'd rather get a 30 to act as a hedge and pay additional principal.

Just yell at me if any of the above sounds really stupid :)
A 15 year is smart. Especially if you're considering renting it soon. It keeps you honest with payoff aspersions and usually comes at a lower rate.

rekamso
Jan 22, 2008

Orange_Lazarus posted:

Yeah apparently the HOA for this place has one master HOA and then an HOA underneath that one. I suppose it's because it's a big area so I'm going through a lot of legal speak hoa pdfs atm.

Some things you'll want to find out:

- Is there a master insurance policy? What does it cover? Who can file a claim against it and what for? What claims have been filed against it in the past?
- What's the plan for repairing the exterior? Residing the exterior? Replacing the roof? (All of these will need to occur at some point and any decent HOA will have a timeline and figured out associated costs.)
- What happens when a shared sewer line (or similar) needs to be dug up and repaired? Does the HOA have cash set aside for unplanned things like this? If not, how do they determine who pays (what if someone can't pay)?
- If a neighbor does something which damages your unit, are they held liable? Does the HOA insurance cover you? Does the HOA check that your neighbor has proper insurance?
- What, if any, rules does the HOA have? Does they levy fines? On what? Are they actually enforced?
- How are dues calculated? How can they be raised? What's the history of any raises?

oxbrain
Aug 18, 2005

Put a glide in your stride and a dip in your hip and come on up to the mothership.
Would the agent have access to that information already or would I have to contact the HOA directly?

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web

SiGmA_X posted:

A 15 year is smart. Especially if you're considering renting it soon. It keeps you honest with payoff aspersions and usually comes at a lower rate.
Eh, I got a 15 year mortgage and now I wish I had gotten the 30 year. It's just more flexible and the difference in rate is pretty negligible right now.

slap me silly
Nov 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer
Yeah, I'm loving my 3 1/8 interest rate on a 30 year mortgage right now. Prepay, don't prepay, who gives a poo poo.

Sephiroth_IRA
Mar 31, 2010
Yeah, with a 30 year I feel like it'll save me some money if an emergency were to happen. Either way you can just pay more principal right?

I don't think my credit union offers 30 year fixed rate mortgages and BOA said there won't be an early payment penalty if I decide to pay off the home.

oxbrain posted:

Would the agent have access to that information already or would I have to contact the HOA directly?

I've been talking to neighbors when I can and reading the HOA pdfs on their website.

edit:

slap me silly posted:

Yeah, I'm loving my 3 1/8 interest rate on a 30 year mortgage right now. Prepay, don't prepay, who gives a poo poo.

How does that work SmS?

Sephiroth_IRA fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Feb 9, 2014

Toilet Tsunami
Jan 27, 2013

Don't forget to wipe...

Orange_Lazarus posted:

Yeah, with a 30 year I feel like it'll save me some money if an emergency were to happen. Either way you can just pay more principal right?


You'll want to be very clear with your lender on what the stipulations are regarding prepayment. Some allow a % increase in your payments per year, some allow a % lump sum payment per year, and some allow prepayment of the entirety of the mortgage at any time. Typically, the more "frills" you have in your product, the higher your annual interest rate will be. Hope this helps!

Bloody Queef
Mar 23, 2012

by zen death robot

Toilet Tsunami posted:

You'll want to be very clear with your lender on what the stipulations are regarding prepayment. Some allow a % increase in your payments per year, some allow a % lump sum payment per year, and some allow prepayment of the entirety of the mortgage at any time. Typically, the more "frills" you have in your product, the higher your annual interest rate will be. Hope this helps!

Many states make prepayment penalties on mortgages illegal. A lot of times they are restricted to paying the entire note off in the first 5 years. What state are you looking in?

Sephiroth_IRA
Mar 31, 2010
My guess is I should get this place inspected before I start negotiating price? For some reason I remember negotiating the price last time and then having the place inspected but I could be wrong. I haven't pulled a Zaurg and put any money down or anything like that yet.

edit: Oh I think I'm starting to remember now that we have the inspection done before the closing.

Sephiroth_IRA fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Feb 9, 2014

oxbrain
Aug 18, 2005

Put a glide in your stride and a dip in your hip and come on up to the mothership.

Orange_Lazarus posted:

I've been talking to neighbors when I can and reading the HOA pdfs on their website.

I didn't even think to see if they had a website, of course they do. :doh:

edit: well one of them does and it's got 5 links to flood information and articles on how deteriorated the levees in the area are.

oxbrain fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Feb 9, 2014

Sephiroth_IRA
Mar 31, 2010
heh I managed to figure out the name of the owners and it looks like they still haven't paid their 2013 taxes and have a 10% penalty fee. I guess that means they could be desperate. They live up in NY and own two properties in my area.

I guess it would be a no no to contact them directly and try to work something out. I guess I'll wait and see what the realtor says.

oxbrain posted:

edit: well one of them does and it's got 5 links to flood information and articles on how deteriorated the levees in the area are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEKkJHSO8A0

Sephiroth_IRA fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Feb 9, 2014

Sephiroth_IRA
Mar 31, 2010
Does PMI go away after you reach a certain amount of equity in the home or are you stuck with it until the home is paid for by not making a big enough down payment?

adorai
Nov 2, 2002

10/27/04 Never forget
Grimey Drawer

Orange_Lazarus posted:

Does PMI go away after you reach a certain amount of equity in the home or are you stuck with it until the home is paid for by not making a big enough down payment?
Depends on the loan. Most conventional loans allow you to cancel at 78% LTV. New FHA loans are for the life of the loan.

Cenodoxus
Mar 29, 2012

while [[ true ]] ; do
    pour()
done


Orange_Lazarus posted:

Does PMI go away after you reach a certain amount of equity in the home or are you stuck with it until the home is paid for by not making a big enough down payment?

Once you hit 20% equity (or whatever your lender requires) you can request that your lender drop the PMI. They'll want an appraisal to prove that you have the necessary equity with the current value of the home. I believe this also works if your property value increases such that you'd have >20% equity on the new value.

slap me silly
Nov 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

Orange_Lazarus posted:

How does that work SmS?
Nothing weird. It's a regular mortgage, I pay the regular bill every month plus a little extra to principal. But I can dump more money against the principal any time, like when I get a tax refund. I was originally paying off the 30 year mortgage on a 15 year schedule, but I relaxed about that a bit when I refinanced to 3 1/8.

Cenodoxus posted:

Once you hit 20% equity (or whatever your lender requires) you can request that your lender drop the PMI. They'll want an appraisal to prove that you have the necessary equity with the current value of the home. I believe this also works if your property value increases such that you'd have >20% equity on the new value.
For PMI removal, I think my lender insists on calculating LTV relative to the original appraisal, unless I make substantive improvements. I seem to remember a clause that specifically excludes increased value due to market fluctuations.

slap me silly fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Feb 9, 2014

LemonDrizzle
Mar 28, 2012

neoliberal shithead

slap me silly posted:

Nothing weird. It's a regular mortgage, I pay the regular bill every month plus a little extra to principal. But I can dump more money against the principal any time, like when I get a tax refund. I was originally paying off the 30 year mortgage on a 15 year schedule, but I relaxed about that a bit when I refinanced to 3 1/8.
What was your LTV when you refinanced, if you don't mind the question?

slap me silly
Nov 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer

LemonDrizzle posted:

What was your LTV when you refinanced, if you don't mind the question?

Not at all. Relative to the original purchase it was 80%. But the appraisal for the refinance came in lower so I had to go at 90% with PMI. That pushed back the break-even point but it turned out it was still a good deal.

Not sure why you're asking, but I've noticed that the lenders I looked at gave the same rates/points all the way between 80%-95% LTV. Not sure if that's related to good credit, existing history with them, cash reserves, or what.

Sephiroth_IRA
Mar 31, 2010
Is it typical for a realtor to ask for a good faith/earnest money before they make an offer?

slap me silly
Nov 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer
I put the earnest money in escrow right after we had both signed off on the offer contract, but before inspections and so on. That was after offer/counteroffer/counter-counteroffer.

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

Orange_Lazarus posted:

Is it typical for a realtor to ask for a good faith/earnest money before they make an offer?
It's very uncommon to ask for money before they make the offer. What is very common is for them to ask you to have a good faith deposit ready for the contract signing, which the seller typically wants within 10 days of the offer being accepted. Less common is making acceptance of the offer contingent on a smaller good faith deposit prior to the full contract signing -- this is typically somewhere in the range of $1,000. You can usually negotiate this one away if you're adamant about giving the full deposit on contract, or if you call the home inspector to set up an appointment right after acceptance of the offer, to show the seller that you're serious.

Shady sellers can take this money and run, so it's uncommon to give this money directly to the seller or their agent. Escrow is typically used if the selling brokerage isn't huge.

Vulture Culture fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Feb 9, 2014

Captain Windex
Apr 10, 2005
It'll clean anything.
Pillbug

slap me silly posted:

Not sure why you're asking, but I've noticed that the lenders I looked at gave the same rates/points all the way between 80%-95% LTV. Not sure if that's related to good credit, existing history with them, cash reserves, or what.

Having good credit is part of it, also the presence of mortgage insurance when your loan to value is >80% makes the loan less risky from the lender's perspective since the MI company will reimburse a portion of their loss if you go into default.



This is one of the pricing matrices that Fannie Mae applies which helps determine your rate (higher positive numbers are worse for you), you can see that depending on your FICO score your adjustment is either the same as you go above 80% (700+), or the adjustment will actually get better the higher your LTV is (699 and below).

slap me silly
Nov 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer
That counterintuitive behavior is driven by PMI? Interesting! The high credit score part is exactly how it was for me. Interesting also that the main breakpoint there is at 75% rather than 80%.

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Hakarne
Jul 23, 2007
Vivo en el autobús!


I have to say I'm glad I can use a VA loan and don't have to deal with PMI. It sounds like a giant god drat scam and you're throwing away shitloads of money on nothing. I mean I understand why it exists but it feels kind of hosed up that you have to pay to protect the lenders interest in the property, they're already making a fuckton of money off of your interest. I have a hard time imagining a situation where buying with PMI involved would in any way, shape, or form be economical over renting, and I live in one of the most ridiculously hosed up locations for rental prices (DC metro).

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