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Butcher kinda started his own genre, though, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Before Dresden, "Urban Fantasy" was mostly semi-porn romance involving shapeshifters or vampires or both. Anita Blake epitomizes that trend. Say what you want about the quality (probably nothing good), but at least Dresden Files is going somewhere. Supernatural CSI is certainly superior to what we used to get.
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Feb 7, 2014 18:37
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There may be a distinct modern revival due to it though, much like lovely vampire dating fiction has probably been around forever but there's only a "paranormal teen romance" section in B&N because of Twilight.
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Feb 7, 2014 18:38
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Butcher didn't create Urban Fantasy, no, but I'd feel comfortable saying that he did revitalize it. The Dresden Files are, to the best of my knowledge, the first contemporary urban fantasy to make it big without being softcore vampire porn.
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Feb 7, 2014 21:32
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One series that I haven't seen mentioned in the pages I've read (or the OP, which only references his historical fiction) is Guy Gavriel Kay's Fionavar Tapestry. I enjoyed these books quite a bit when I read them 5 or so years ago but they were really the only ones of that sort that he's written. Curious what others think.
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Feb 7, 2014 22:46
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Kalenn Istarion posted:One series that I haven't seen mentioned in the pages I've read (or the OP, which only references his historical fiction) is Guy Gavriel Kay's Fionavar Tapestry. I enjoyed these books quite a bit when I read them 5 or so years ago but they were really the only ones of that sort that he's written. Curious what others think. I read these recently after seeing someone sing their praises. I really enjoyed the first book, but the series started tripping over itself halfway through the second (I think), when the Religion of Orgies subplot (questionable on its own) removed one of my favorite characters at that point, with no foreshadowing or any previous mention of the legend at all. After that, characters stopped being their own characters and all turned into plot devices. Still, it was readable until he dragged Arthurian fanfiction into the plot, and it was all downhill from there. I can only take so much wanking over how Arthur and Guinevere are the MOST PERFECT and MOST BEAUTIFUL and STRONGEST and MOST TRAGIC with the DEEPEST SADNESS and then Lancelot comes along and it's all that only moreso. They were the worst Mary Sues I've read outside fanfiction. I started skipping entire chapters halfway through the third book just so I could make it to the outcome, only reading a few pages here and there to see if anything interesting was happening. I no longer cared about any of the plot devices with names wandering around. The ending kinda/sorta made up for some of it, but the entire thing would have been less grating if he had stuck to his own characters. Though if his own characters were that Mary Sue-ish too, it wouldn't have made a difference. Strong start, good setting, a few good characters squandered on dropping the point and bringing in things that didn't belong. Maybe someone more into Arthurian legend would enjoy that aspect, but it just read like bad fanfiction to me.
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Feb 7, 2014 23:14
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Seldom Posts posted:I would disagree strongly with this. The Passage while not a great book is competently written and actually contains an interesting underlying idea about the treatment of race and class in the United States. The Twelve by contrast throws the ideas in The Passage out the window for a bunch of vampire mysticism garbage and a weak sauce critique of Bush-era politics. Agreed. I really enjoyed The Passage and couldn't even finish The Twelve. I thought the whole storyline was a confusing mess.
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Feb 8, 2014 01:43
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neongrey posted:What's the best of her stuff? I really appreciate her on twitter, but I never felt inclined to pick up Crown of Stars for some reason. I'd like to buy something though. You might want to check out the Crossroads trilogy. It's only three books and I liked it a lot better than the Crown of Stars, which I abandoned after one or two books. I thought the world in it was interesting and I liked the varied cultures and Reeves, who are sort of like law enforcement that flies around on giant eagles. I also liked the characters in this book much more than in the other series, where the characters were kind of offputting to me. I think she's much more interested in worldbuilding than she is in being literary, but I found these books entertaining enough to take me through the series. She also has a science fiction series, but I haven't read it.
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Feb 8, 2014 02:06
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Cool thanks, I'll look into that then. My tastes run less literary than a lot of this thread (or at least my range extends further in that direction) so that should work out fine.
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Feb 8, 2014 02:27
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Has anybody read The Iron Druid Chronicles? Both Goodreads and Amazon keep recommending them to me, but the blurbs are giving me this really creepy quasi-erotica feel and I don't want to buy them if it's some weirdo stealth paranormal 50 Shades of Grey or something. Assuming they're not pagan-porn, are they any good?
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Feb 8, 2014 02:43
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:Has anybody read The Iron Druid Chronicles? Both Goodreads and Amazon keep recommending them to me, but the blurbs are giving me this really creepy quasi-erotica feel and I don't want to buy them if it's some weirdo stealth paranormal 50 Shades of Grey or something. They are fine. They are not quasi-erotica; they are generally in the same genre as the Dresden Files; and they have a fair amount too many pop-culture references for a druid that's 1000 years old. I think that sums it up. Go ask in the Dresden thread if you want more details.
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Feb 8, 2014 03:23
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^^ SurreptitiousMuffin posted:Has anybody read The Iron Druid Chronicles? Both Goodreads and Amazon keep recommending them to me, but the blurbs are giving me this really creepy quasi-erotica feel and I don't want to buy them if it's some weirdo stealth paranormal 50 Shades of Grey or something. The first three books are decent fun, the next two are garbage, and the sixth starts to move back towards fun but has a lot of ground to make up. The next few posts are probably going to start bitching about the books being full of lolcats, but that is literally two lines in one book so ignore those people. That said, Hearne does love his pop culture references perhaps a bit too much.
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Feb 8, 2014 03:26
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:Has anybody read The Iron Druid Chronicles? Both Goodreads and Amazon keep recommending them to me, but the blurbs are giving me this really creepy quasi-erotica feel and I don't want to buy them if it's some weirdo stealth paranormal 50 Shades of Grey or something. They're a lot of fun. And the dude does "fade to black" in lieu of sex. I wouldn't call them erotica at all.
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Feb 8, 2014 06:30
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They are pretty good. As mentioned, the author loves his pop culture references but there is a decent reason given in the books. Basically he's trying to blend in with regular society and if he talked like a thousand year old druid he'd be found out pretty quick. Still, if you like the Dresden Files you should dig the series. Nothing really porno about it. there are a few scenes in the books where he's distracted by a hot chick but I don't think there's any actual explicit sex. I was kinda worried about it to, the covers are sort of romantic trashy novel style.
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Feb 8, 2014 08:51
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Why is the cover art for most genre novels so bad? The illustrations in a dungeons and dragons manual or on a magic card are way better than most cover art.
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Feb 8, 2014 08:57
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I've been struggling to recall a trilogy I started maybe 20yrs ago but lost track of while waiting for the third book to come out and on my searchy travel I have come across a couple of other trilogies that I started and never finished: The Deeds of Paksennarion Sword of Shadows Seriously going to have to buy all these for my kindle on payday! So frustrating that I can't find that other trilogy. I can't even recall enough specific detail about the book to identify other than hoping the book cover will leap out at me. Edit: Literally within moments of submitting this post I found it! Wars of Light and Shadow I'm about to buy so many books on payday 
WastedJoker fucked around with this message at 09:57 on Feb 8, 2014 |
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Feb 8, 2014 09:53
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Nevvy Z posted:there's only a "paranormal teen romance" section in B&N because of Twilight. I wish I hadn't set foot inside a Barnes & Noble recently, because then I would think that this is a joke and maybe give a little smirk instead of just feeling hollow and jaded.
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Feb 8, 2014 18:19
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Echo Cian posted:I read these recently after seeing someone sing their praises. I really enjoyed the first book, but the series started tripping over itself halfway through the second (I think), when the Religion of Orgies subplot (questionable on its own) removed one of my favorite characters at that point, with no foreshadowing or any previous mention of the legend at all. After that, characters stopped being their own characters and all turned into plot devices. I liked the Fionavar Tapestry for the twist on the Arthurian myth. In some ways the books are similar to Donaldsons Thomas Covenant, although thankfully not as depressing. Having characters that are tragic and bound adds to the atmosphere. One good point about the series is that it is only 3 books and doesn't really drag on forever like every other fantasy series. The ending as you point it out is good and tragic, and better than many other series.
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Feb 8, 2014 18:32
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Cardiac posted:I liked the Fionavar Tapestry for the twist on the Arthurian myth. In some ways the books are similar to Donaldsons Thomas Covenant, although thankfully not as depressing. Having characters that are tragic and bound adds to the atmosphere. This is closer to how I felt about it. I can see how some might see the drama as overplayed a bit but his prose is pretty good (younger me analogized it with reading a symphony) and I don't think he did anything glaringly inconsistent. I thought the situation where Kevin gets sexed to death was adequately foreshadowed earlier on so wasn't caught off guard by it as much as Echo was.
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Feb 8, 2014 19:42
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Cardiac posted:I liked the Fionavar Tapestry for the twist on the Arthurian myth. In some ways the books are similar to Donaldsons Thomas Covenant, although thankfully not as depressing. Having characters that are tragic and bound adds to the atmosphere. That's an interesting confirmation, then. It's better if you're going in expecting a take on Arthurian myth rather than an original setting and story. The thing was that it seemed original until somewhere in the second book. I liked it a lot when it was Kay's own characters doing their thing, before the Arthurian stuff took over everything by the third book, completely at odds with the first, and it viciously insisted that I sympathize with these characters that I hadn't spent a book and a half with. For all my complaints, it wasn't a bad series by any means, but not already knowing Arthurian legend made it really disappointing when the plot ended up revolving around it. Kalenn Istarion posted:I thought the situation where Kevin gets sexed to death was adequately foreshadowed earlier on so wasn't caught off guard by it as much as Echo was. It was partially foreshadowed. The actual myth concerning it that the scene revolved around was never mentioned before that point, though, which was what irritated me. Unless I missed something, which is possible, but making something that important a minor enough mention to miss completely isn't very good foreshadowing.  WastedJoker posted:Edit: Literally within moments of submitting this post I found it! This was the series that got me into fantasy. Janny Wurts was my favorite author until I found Carol Berg. Now I don't even have the patience to reread the books because of her writing style (getting into flash fiction writing doesn't leave much patience for wordiness), but I still love them, if for the memory more than the actual prose these days. Echo Cian fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Feb 8, 2014 |
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Feb 8, 2014 19:55
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:Has anybody read The Iron Druid Chronicles? Both Goodreads and Amazon keep recommending them to me, but the blurbs are giving me this really creepy quasi-erotica feel and I don't want to buy them if it's some weirdo stealth paranormal 50 Shades of Grey or something.
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Feb 8, 2014 19:59
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TOOT BOOT posted:Why is the cover art for most genre novels so bad? The illustrations in a dungeons and dragons manual or on a magic card are way better than most cover art. I hate the current trend of boring covers that are just a picture of some model posing dressed up as a character from the book.
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Feb 8, 2014 20:02
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Echo Cian posted:That's an interesting confirmation, then. It's better if you're going in expecting a take on Arthurian myth rather than an original setting and story. The thing was that it seemed original until somewhere in the second book. I liked it a lot when it was Kay's own characters doing their thing, before the Arthurian stuff took over everything by the third book, completely at odds with the first, and it viciously insisted that I sympathize with these characters that I hadn't spent a book and a half with. I actually had no idea it was going to dive into Arthurian stuff - I actually was surprised when they showed up, but I enjoyed the transition rather than being put off by it.  Echo Cian posted:It was partially foreshadowed. The actual myth concerning it that the scene revolved around was never mentioned before that point, though, which was what irritated me.
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Feb 8, 2014 20:20
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Kalenn Istarion posted:This is closer to how I felt about it. I can see how some might see the drama as overplayed a bit but his prose is pretty good (younger me analogized it with reading a symphony) and I don't think he did anything glaringly inconsistent. I thought the situation where Kevin gets sexed to death was adequately foreshadowed earlier on so wasn't caught off guard by it as much as Echo was. That scene was actually rather good, since it fit both the story arc and his character. What I liked about the series was how a set of broken characters came into a foreign world, that in some way healed them and in some cases let them sacrifice themselves for the greater good. Nowadays when everything in fantasy is supposed to be gritty, selfish and cynical, it is actually nice to read something more altruistic. The series have probably some record in self-sacrificing deaths and tragic characters, which is oddly fitting combined with the Arthurian myth. I say it is a good series, an easy read and not too heavy on the depressing parts. The best comparison would probably be LotR, and Tolkien was clearly a great influence.
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Feb 8, 2014 20:47
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:Has anybody read The Iron Druid Chronicles? Both Goodreads and Amazon keep recommending them to me, but the blurbs are giving me this really creepy quasi-erotica feel and I don't want to buy them if it's some weirdo stealth paranormal 50 Shades of Grey or something.
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Feb 8, 2014 21:08
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savinhill posted:I hate the current trend of boring covers that are just a picture of some model posing dressed up as a character from the book.
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Feb 8, 2014 23:41
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TOOT BOOT posted:Why is the cover art for most genre novels so bad? The illustrations in a dungeons and dragons manual or on a magic card are way better than most cover art. Charles Stross explains why (includes references to the cover linked just above too).
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Feb 9, 2014 08:20
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Decius posted:Charles Stross explains why (includes references to the cover linked just above too). I've read that article and was aware authors generally don't pick the cover art. What constitutes good art is subjective but I find the general presentation of most genre literature almost repellent and question who the gently caress thought this or that particular cover was attractive enough to make someone more likely to buy the book instead of less.
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Feb 9, 2014 08:42
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TOOT BOOT posted:I've read that article and was aware authors generally don't pick the cover art. What constitutes good art is subjective but I find the general presentation of most genre literature almost repellent and question who the gently caress thought this or that particular cover was attractive enough to make someone more likely to buy the book instead of less. Nerds have bad taste.
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Feb 9, 2014 09:19
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Nobody has that bad of a taste. Discworld novels have generally pretty distinct and awesome covers and they sell like hot potatoes.
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Feb 9, 2014 11:50
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Cardiovorax posted:Nobody has that bad of a taste. Discworld novels have generally pretty distinct and awesome covers and they sell like hot potatoes. Don't bet on it. Though it wouldn't surprise me if genre publishers thought public taste was worse than it is.
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Feb 9, 2014 13:10
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Did Michael Whelan price himself out of the market? I remember in the 80's he had a pretty strong handle on story-accurate main character portrait against story-not-hosed-up background.
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Feb 9, 2014 18:48
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Slo-Tek posted:Did Michael Whelan price himself out of the market? I remember in the 80's he had a pretty strong handle on story-accurate main character portrait against story-not-hosed-up background. He's concentrating more on gallery work than book covers. He still does a cover occasionally (Words of Radiance has a Whelan cover), though. His covers are always accurate because he won't do a cover for a book he hasn't read, even if it's just an early draft.
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Feb 9, 2014 19:26
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:Has anybody read The Iron Druid Chronicles? Both Goodreads and Amazon keep recommending them to me, but the blurbs are giving me this really creepy quasi-erotica feel and I don't want to buy them if it's some weirdo stealth paranormal 50 Shades of Grey or something. I couldn't even make it through the first book because the parts I read were all about the main character narrating how awesome he was and it just felt way too much like a power fantasy even for a genre that is all about that stuff. Then again I have yet to read an urban fantasy book that I liked, so take my opinion with a grain of salt, I suppose!
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Feb 9, 2014 21:04
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Ornamented Death posted:He's concentrating more on gallery work than book covers. He still does a cover occasionally (Words of Radiance has a Whelan cover), though. Of course, his stuff is always at its most accurate if there's a character in the book who holds a sword horizontally over their head.
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Feb 9, 2014 23:38
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Echo Cian posted:This was the series that got me into fantasy. Janny Wurts was my favorite author until I found Carol Berg. Now I don't even have the patience to reread the books because of her writing style (getting into flash fiction writing doesn't leave much patience for wordiness), but I still love them, if for the memory more than the actual prose these days. What's Carol Berg's best series? I read the Collegia Magica series and loved it, but I don't know which of her other three to read next.
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Feb 9, 2014 23:59
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Cardiovorax posted:Nobody has that bad of a taste. Discworld novels have generally pretty distinct and awesome covers and they sell like hot potatoes. The nicest thing you can say about the covers of the US editions of early Discworld novels was that they protected the pages inside from getting torn and smudged, and that was followed by several years where there were no US editions of Discworld at all, and you had to import them from the UK or Canada.
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Feb 10, 2014 00:22
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regularizer posted:What's Carol Berg's best series? I read the Collegia Magica series and loved it, but I don't know which of her other three to read next. The Lighthouse Duet (Flesh & Spirit, Breath & Bone) is my favorite of hers, narrowly edging out Collegia, followed by Rai-kireh and her standalone Song of the Beast. The only series I don't recommend is Bridge of D'Arnath; the first book was good, but the second had bad pacing and turned into a slog to get through. I haven't started the third because of it.
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Feb 10, 2014 00:34
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Echo Cian posted:The only series I don't recommend is Bridge of D'Arnath; the first book was good, but the second had bad pacing and turned into a slog to get through. I haven't started the third because of it. It didn't get any better beyond that, and was bad enough that I haven't read any of her other stuff.
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Feb 10, 2014 01:01
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Srice posted:I couldn't even make it through the first book because the parts I read were all about the main character narrating how awesome he was and it just felt way too much like a power fantasy even for a genre that is all about that stuff. I'm a bigger fan of urban fantasy and I still agree. The series takes a "all myths are real" approach that keeps it from having a thematically consistent setting and the main character feels like he's got all of the author's interests except he's a thousand year old magical muscle dude.
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Feb 10, 2014 01:09
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NinjaDebugger posted:It didn't get any better beyond that, and was bad enough that I haven't read any of her other stuff. Her other stuff is so much better, D'Arnath might as well have been written by someone else. It's baffling since it wasn't even her first series. Echo Cian fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Feb 10, 2014 |
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Feb 10, 2014 02:07
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