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Babyface Mingo posted:Picking it up when you're 200$ too low for a AUG or if you want Is this a serious answer I can't tell, help me Braww.
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Feb 8, 2014 22:39
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mcvey posted:Is this a serious answer I can't tell, help me Braww. Listen if you save on the 200$ you can buy like 4 decoys or you can almost afford an extra p250. Buying an AUG you miss out on 4 decoys and nearly an extra p250.
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Feb 8, 2014 22:40
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Babyface Mingo posted:No, you pick it up because it's a better gun (and hey, it also costs more). You pick up an AWP for "someone" on your team. Let's say you're playing a proper 5 on 5 with an actual team, the next round, all 5 members of your team survives, and you see another AWP on the ground. Do you take it? Probably not, because you only need one on your team. But right now if you see another Aug on the ground you take it. There's no "choice" right now. There's no "should I get the M4? Should I get the AK?" it's just "okay I need to get an Aug."
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Feb 8, 2014 22:40
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Coleman posted:You pick up an AWP for "someone" on your team. Let's say you're playing a proper 5 on 5 with an actual team, the next round, all 5 members of your team survives, and you see another AWP on the ground. Do you take it? Probably not, because you only need one on your team. But right now if you see another Aug on the ground you take it. There's no "choice" right now. There's no "should I get the M4? Should I get the AK?" it's just "okay I need to get an Aug." Actually I'll pick it up myself because a 1-shot kill sniper > 'maybe' 1-hk rifle.
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Feb 8, 2014 22:42
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I'll take an ak at close range and an awp at long range over an aug even with the current patch.
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Feb 8, 2014 22:45
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Yesterday I played with someone who used an UMP literally every round and didn't do terrible. Some people just have preferences despite statistics or value.
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Feb 8, 2014 22:45
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Babyface Mingo posted:Actually I'll pick it up myself because a 1-shot kill sniper > 'maybe' 1-hk rifle. In the situation Cole mentioned, you should pick it up only if you're good with the AWP. 
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Feb 8, 2014 22:48
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mcvey posted:Go deathmatch with an AUG for 2 minutes. I did yesterday and 0 of the good players I saw used it  It was M4s, AKs and AWPs as usual with a few P90 hotshots. Only difference was that everyone was using the deagle again.
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Feb 8, 2014 23:06
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cat with hands posted:I did yesterday and 0 of the good players I saw used it Question: Slaapaav posted:I dont play cod so that doesn't explain it very well for me. What is a cod gun? mcvey posted:Go deathmatch with an AUG for 2 minutes. I can't tell if I'm being trolled or not anymore. I deathmatch a lot and am 9/10 at the top by several hundered points but there's no point in playing DM with the Aug because it's just going to get nerfed soon. If you can't tell that the Aug is straight up better than every other gun in the game there's no hope for you. We've already seen "gentlemans agreements" in pro matches to not use it. http://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1xcxo2/please_hotfix_the_aug_and_sg/ I know I know but GO devs read that subreddit and have often taken its advice. mcvey fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Feb 8, 2014 |
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Feb 8, 2014 23:14
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The aug is fun to use since it's overpowered, but I wouldn't really deathmatch with it. If you're deathmatching you're trying to improve your game, why would you attune yourself to a weapon that gets nerfed in a week. That's just wasted time. I agree that most players are resistant to change, but it's practically a consensus that the gun is a tad too good right now. Mcvey knows his poo poo.
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Feb 8, 2014 23:19
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mcvey posted:Question: Do you have any proof of this? Tournament/match stats to indicate the Aug has changed high level play? That is how balance is determined. Not by gut feelings and gentleman agreements.
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Feb 8, 2014 23:24
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mcvey posted:Question: You're completely mutating two separate arguments into one and it's defeating the purpose of both: 1. Counterstrike has a gun balance problem. 2. The AUG is overpowered. Both of these can be true, but you're trying to make the AUG's balance problem prove that Counterstrike doesn't need to rebalance guns. In your very example of "well you might drop an M4 for an AK" is a personal preference thing, but you still *bought an M4* in the first place, rather than an (old) Aug. I really wish CSGO had an open statistics API like TF2/Dota2 so these numbers could get pulled because I'm almost certain that at almost all levels of play the buy-rates are absurdly stacked in favor of a minority of guns. There's no place in this game for almost anything in the Heavy tab, except as gimmicks. There's no place for the majority of the SMGs, except as gimmicks. That's not balance, that's window-dressing that proves the game is balance around M4/AK supremacy at all costs. Sylink posted:Do you have any proof of this? Tournament/match stats to indicate the Aug has changed high level play? That is how balance is determined. Not by gut feelings and gentleman agreements. A bunch of high-level competitive games yesterday I was watching had gentleman's agreements not to buy new-AUG because it is OP right now.
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Feb 8, 2014 23:28
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^^^ i think you replied to the wrong person?? but Cole's right regardless. GO has the most viable weapons of any other game in the series. What's so wrong with the M4/AK/AWP being the best weapons in the game anyways? Sylink posted:Do you have any proof of this? Tournament/match stats to indicate the Aug has changed high level play? That is how balance is determined. Not by gut feelings and gentleman agreements. http://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1x9ofz/niptv_when_this_post_is_5h_old_ems_one_nordic/cf9f2uq http://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1xaj9o/h2k_gaming_esc_gaming_both_agree_not_to_use_the/cf9pljj I didn't watch any games today but I heard it was the same in a lot of the matches. We saw the same agreements with the Deagle patch from last year that made it a cannon for about a week, surprise it was patched quickly afterwards. mcvey fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Feb 8, 2014 |
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Feb 8, 2014 23:29
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There are a bunch of guns in CS that are only there because it was a mod made by some kids and everyone (like Action Half Life) was putting tons of weapons in their game and they really cant be balanced. I'd really prefer it if GO pruned it to like 10 guns total and balanced those
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Feb 8, 2014 23:37
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Agreements are just evidence of personal prejudice amongst the players and not indicative of the actual performance and effect on gameplay. Thats what we do not know. Your opinion and random guys on the internet saying so isn't really evidence of anything. We need to see matches played out with whatever gun someone wants to use. And a real competitor would use any tool at his disposal that is within the ruleset rather than aspire to some made up bullshit ideal about gameplay.
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Feb 8, 2014 23:37
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Sylink posted:Agreements are just evidence of personal prejudice amongst the players and not indicative of the actual performance and effect on gameplay. Thats what we do not know. Your opinion and random guys on the internet saying so isn't really evidence of anything. mistermojo posted:There are a bunch of guns in CS that are only there because it was a mod made by some kids and everyone (like Action Half Life) was putting tons of weapons in their game and they really cant be balanced. I'd really prefer it if GO pruned it to like 10 guns total and balanced those mcvey fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Feb 8, 2014 |
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Feb 8, 2014 23:39
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Who gives a poo poo about 'gun balance' really? Like in abstract of how the game plays? The way this game works, the guns that let you kill people from a ranged peek in 1-2 shots will be the best. There's no genius number twiddling you can do with the autoshotgun to make it just as good as an AK, without screwing up the basic formula of how this game is played. 40 OZ fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Feb 8, 2014 |
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Feb 8, 2014 23:40
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Sylink posted:Agreements are just evidence of personal prejudice amongst the players and not indicative of the actual performance and effect on gameplay. Thats what we do not know. Your opinion and random guys on the internet saying so isn't really evidence of anything. ah yes it's just that the idiot professional CS players have no idea how CS balance works. Sylink posted:We need to see matches played out with whatever gun someone wants to use. And a real competitor would use any tool at his disposal that is within the ruleset rather than aspire to some made up bullshit ideal about gameplay. So why not go up to the other guy's computer at LAN and turn the thing off? Why have rules at all? You are literally saying they should change the rules to whatever because it will still be a competition in the dictionary sense of the word. If the people who play CS for money have determined that it's unbalanced it's a pretty safe bet that it is, in fact, unbalanced. If you want a game with lots of flashy guns and easy gunplay play Call of Duty. I'm not insulting it, it's a fine game for what it is. But the reason people even play competitive CS is because of the high skill ceiling, and overpowered guns like this AUG destroy that. Sylink posted:Great, you have one match as an example. Let 100 more play out and come back with some real stats where the Aug is used by both sides unrestricted. How about you stop posting, instead, and learn what statistics are? Your dumb anecdotes are meaningless. ahahahahahahahahahaha What's your matchmaking rank? Do you even play with the competitive ruleset regularly? Are you just trying to turn the game into CoD because you like that more? icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Feb 8, 2014 |
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Feb 8, 2014 23:56
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mcvey posted:Go watch the VOD of http://www.hltv.org/match/2288618-esc-gaming-h2k-ems-one-katowice-nordic-regional-finals this and stop posting, please. It should be on NiPTVs twitch channel. H2K was down 10-1 without anyone using the AUG during the game, ESC.Delpan uses it during round 11(?) of their CT side breaking the agreement. H2K decides to buy AUGs during their CT side because of this and wins a ridiculous comeback soley becaue of the Aug. Great, you have one match as an example. Let 100 more play out and come back with some real stats where the Aug is used by both sides unrestricted. How about you stop posting, instead, and learn what statistics are? Your dumb anecdotes are meaningless.
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Feb 8, 2014 23:57
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I get mad about my video games ITT Also, for some content, I want to start joining with goons soon, I just got my new mouse and need to actually get used to it and I'll be ready to rock and roll!
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Feb 8, 2014 23:58
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Sylink posted:Great, you have one match as an example. Let 100 more play out and come back with some real stats where the Aug is used by both sides unrestricted. How about you stop posting, instead, and learn what statistics are? Your dumb anecdotes are meaningless. The Aug buff isn't going to last long enough to see "100 more play out". vvv  x2
mcvey fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Feb 9, 2014 |
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Feb 9, 2014 00:01
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icantfindaname posted:ah yes it's just that the idiot professional CS players have no idea how CS balance works. Don't be deliberately dense and pedantic. I said within the ruleset which is that there are guns in the game you are free to choose from and buy. If a gun is good and you deliberately don't use it, that is your own fault and you do yourself a disservice by not using it. Turning off a computer is obviously against the rules in a tournament. And players may have good input on balance but that isn't enough. Actual data and evidence is. The patch has barely been out for a day are you telling me they've already compiled enough evidence to determine the master level of balance in CS? Bullshit and you know it. It needs testing and apparently CS players are raging idiots who can't adjust from minor changes. At the very least, more matches need to play out to see the result.
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Feb 9, 2014 00:01
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Should I post my lovely demos of tons of MM matches where we lose with Augs? I guess that means the Aug is balanced guys. I won a round with the UMP once, guess it needs nerfed.
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Feb 9, 2014 00:04
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Sylink posted:Should I post my lovely demos of tons of MM matches where we lose with Augs? I guess that means the Aug is balanced guys. Play in a goonman.
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Feb 9, 2014 00:06
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Sylink posted:Don't be deliberately dense and pedantic. I said within the ruleset which is that there are guns in the game you are free to choose from and buy. If a gun is good and you deliberately don't use it, that is your own fault and you do yourself a disservice by not using it. Turning off a computer is obviously against the rules in a tournament. Have you even played with the new AUG once? Because you are acting about as deliberately dense and pedantic as it possibly gets. No, there isn't hard data for you. However people who literally play CS for money, who have played the game for thousands of hours, have determined that it's overpowered enough not to use it in competitions. But for some reason you think they're "raging idiots who can't adjust from minor changes". You sound really, really angry at CS players for some reason. I'll ask again what is your matchmaking rank? Do you play on ESEA? Your anecdote isn't worth as much as the literal professionals, this isn't hard to understand.
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Feb 9, 2014 00:06
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I'm fine with Valve compiling data but it's really not fun to go up against AUGs now. It feels like playing T on d2 just has no chance. I'm not high in matchmaking or anything, I just don't feel like playing until they sort it out. I've tried with teams to use more throws when trying to take different points, but it just feels like skating uphill. When my team has had AUGs though we win pretty much every match and it also feels unfun. Maybe more strategies will evolve to deal with it, but until then it does kind of suck the life out of playing for my friends and I.
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Feb 9, 2014 00:07
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icantfindaname posted:Because you are acting about as deliberately dense and pedantic as it possibly gets. Are you mad? Sylink posted:Don't be deliberately dense and pedantic. Are you mad? Which one of you is mad? Like really mad lol. Just post here first who is mad, and we'll determine which one of you is more mad.
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Feb 9, 2014 00:09
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I compiled enough evidence to determine the balance of the AUG within five minutes of using it after the patch came out, thanks everyone.
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Feb 9, 2014 00:10
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icantfindaname posted:Have you even played with the new AUG once? Because you are acting about as deliberately dense and pedantic as it possibly gets. No, there isn't hard data for you. However people who literally play CS for money, who have played the game for thousands of hours, have determined that it's overpowered enough not to use it in competitions. But for some reason you think they're "raging idiots who can't adjust from minor changes". You sound really, really angry at CS players for some reason. I haven't put forth any anecdotes intended to be taken seriously. My own rank is not relevant to the problem and amounts to an ad hominem attack on your part. Nor have I said the Aug isn't imbalanced. My only point is there isn't enough evidence to go on to make a reasonable decision. But hey, I found the T aug equivalent to be just as good for me and I was countersniping awpers with it because I really liked that gun in Source. really tickles my jimmies. teagone posted:Play in a goonman. I used to play but everyone just started bitching all the time for no reason so I stopped. I want to play a match not watch some people rage then TK someone and leave the match. The Brazilians in MM who don't understand english and have 200 ping are more pleasant to be around than some of the regulars on the goon server.
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Feb 9, 2014 00:12
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I played Italy today and on T side barely came up with 5 wins because the other side was near constantly using 5 augs. Then managed to come back and win doing the same when we switched to CT. People were passing up Autosnipers to grab them. Aug is ridiculous right now. SG is perfect and something I'd actually pick over the AK in the right situations.
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Feb 9, 2014 00:13
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Sylink posted:I used to play but everyone just started bitching all the time for no reason so I stopped. I want to play a match not watch some people rage then TK someone and leave the match. The Brazilians in MM who don't understand english and have 200 ping are more pleasant to be around than some of the regulars on the goon server. Who are you on steam?
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Feb 9, 2014 00:15
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mcvey posted:I deathmatch a lot and am 9/10 at the top by several hundered points but there's no point in playing DM with the Aug because it's just going to get nerfed soon. If you can't tell that the Aug is straight up better than every other gun in the game there's no hope for you. That might explain it. Using it myself in DM doesn't really tell me much since this game is so deadly. Better players kill you quickly with pretty much everything and I kill worse players easily with worse guns. Just the way it is. It's not like I spent a lot of time with the AUG or SIG before the patch since they weren't worth it previously.
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Feb 9, 2014 00:47
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Sylink posted:I used to play but everyone just started bitching all the time for no reason so I stopped. I want to play a match not watch some people rage then TK someone and leave the match. The Brazilians in MM who don't understand english and have 200 ping are more pleasant to be around than some of the regulars on the goon server. I have played quite a few goonmans only encountered one person being a jackass and even then it was over within a couple minutes. The most infuriating thing I deal with on goonmans is warpmaster doge and his great internet.
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Feb 9, 2014 00:50
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Sylink posted:I haven't put forth any anecdotes intended to be taken seriously. My own rank is not relevant to the problem and amounts to an ad hominem attack on your part. Nor have I said the Aug isn't imbalanced. My only point is there isn't enough evidence to go on to make a reasonable decision. Actually your rank is kind of relevant if you're going to be debating balance of the game. Balance in CS is completely irrelevant at lower level play because the fundamentals of CS are simply not present. I'm a very average CS player, especially in terms of Goonmans. But you put me in a game with just Silver Elites, I'll run around with a P250 and drop 30. It won't even be because my aim is better, it'll be because my positioning, game awareness, and game sense is better than players with less experience than I have. Balance only comes into the equation when you have two teams of evenly matched opponents with more advanced knowledge of the game, that's when the patterns actually start to emerge. I love hearing the "1.6 players don't like change!" argument. Are you really so silly as to believe CS players are so attached to the name of a gun that we wouldn't switch to something else if it had different strengths and weaknesses? You honestly believe that people are like "I NEED MY BEST GUN TO BE THE AK47, AND THE M4A4! Even if another gun is IDENTICAL IN EVERY WAY I won't use it because it's not named the AK47!" That is not what's going on here, and I don't know how you don't understand it. The AK and the M4 BALANCE EACH OTHER. Right now, the Aug has nothing to balance against, and has literally zero downside. There is no negative to using the Aug, not it's price, not it's rate of fire, it's power, or it's spread. This is fundamental CS here you're arguing, and you are arguing it poorly. You are so vehement that, what mcvey aptly called a "a CoD gun", should be kept under the premise that "it's new, and people only don't like it because it's new."
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Feb 9, 2014 00:55
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The SG 552 is pretty good now, too. Does it not exist in your version of CS GO?Coleman posted:
I'm not arguing it poorly. Bring out real repeatable evidence that the Aug is imbalanced.
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Feb 9, 2014 01:05
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Sylink posted:I'm not arguing it poorly. Bring out real repeatable evidence that the Aug is imbalanced. What does this even mean? What kind of evidence would sway you? Your autism is showing. Your autism is growing. Your autism will CONSUME US ALL. e: The new values: quote:Damage values are recorded at 0 and 1000 inches range, the ones in parentheses factor in kevlar/helmet. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuOy-5I1VcBMdGZmYndxUjctc1VNUDZHTXJFUE9Dbmc#gid=0 mcvey fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Feb 9, 2014 |
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Feb 9, 2014 01:08
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Honestly, I think it'd be perfectly fine for them to leave them the way they are, but increase the price substantially. I think that'd work pretty well, because there is a lack of guns in the 3.5-4.5k range. I think, at their current price range, they are a bit overpowered but I also think some people in this thread are WAY overreacting. Also, someone being a pro doesn't mean they automatically know better than everyone else. It's pretty common in most competitive esport games for something to come out, and have a ton of claims about it being overpowered until people learn to deal with it. Apogee15 fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Feb 9, 2014 |
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Feb 9, 2014 01:32
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For anyone still arguing the AUG is balanced, look at this for a visual guide https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYA3YUM-MzQ&t=410s Just look at the spread. You cannot think this acceptable in a game like CS.
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Feb 9, 2014 01:32
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W5KhfJHF_4
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Feb 9, 2014 01:37
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Lotta bad posts going on right now. To be quite honest, make the aug have slightly more vertical recoil, and increase price to 4150 and i'd be totally okay with it.
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Feb 9, 2014 01:39
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