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It also depends on the reader. If someone would ask me and they're just interested in good characters, setting and plot I'd probably recommend Player of Games, but if I knew they're literature buffs and experienced in reading more complicated works with regards to narrative, allegory, etc, then I might recommend Use of Weapons. It depends as much on the novel as it does on the reader, so there's no simple answer. Tony, I'm very much looking forward to reading what you think of the next Culture novel you're going to read.
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Jan 14, 2014 19:26
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Eh, I went in order and read Consider then Player then Weapons and it did me no harm. I think it depends entirely on the reader and as such a blanket commandment one way or the other is as likely to fail as to be useful.
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Jan 14, 2014 20:08
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Since a reader going in has no idea which book is a good fit for them and we don't have any idea about the traits of the reader you might as well go with the intro that most people think fits best.
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Jan 14, 2014 20:11
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The best thing to do is say something like "general consensus is that any of these 3 books is a decent starting place for different reasons. Here's a 1 sentence synopsis of each one so you can decide" EDIT: Something like this. ------------- The Culture novels aren't a sequential series, but more a collection of novels all taking place in the same universe. As such, you can read them in any order without missing much (except a couple of back-references, cameos, and details about the universe). Each of the following 3 books are considered to be good starting points in the Culture universe:
syphon fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Jan 14, 2014 |
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Jan 14, 2014 20:13
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Agreed. Just saying "Read This first and not That" isn't helpful. Saying "here's why you might want to start with this book, here's why you might want to start with that one, and here's why you might want to start with this other one" is.
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Jan 14, 2014 20:17
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syphon posted:The best thing to do is say something like "general consensus is that any of these 3 books is a decent starting place for different reasons. Here's a 1 sentence synopsis of each one so you can decide" [*]Use Of Weapons - Many (including Banks himself) consider this to be the best Culture novel. It uses a fairly complex alternating POV/Timeline structure, which can be disorienting to a reader who is trying to learn about the Culture at the same time. Much of this book is metaphor and allegory, some have reported frustration with it's style. You will be dropped into the middle of the setting with this book and then have a number of arcs competing for your attention, eventually almost every chapter will be from a completely different perspective and time. If you just want to dip your toe in and taste the universe, this might not be for you, while if you've read a stack of scifi and feel up to the 'challenge' then you may love it. Be warned however, there are safer first book options. The reason I say this is because the 'complex alternating POV/Timeline structure' is what is in the Banks OP and I read that and thought - yeah, ok.. but it didn't communicate to me what I really needed to know. UoW is an impressive book, there is no doubt.. perhaps you can also put in a bit more about UoW's praises (long descriptive passages with often 'literary' style sentence structure and vocabulary, humor that is some of the best the genre has to offer, some pew pew scenes that are really cool despite it not being the book's focus, a main character that is almost incomprehensibly complex and interesting). There is just a lot going on with UoW so I'd personally say more about it than just that one sentence. Also, put Player of Games first on the list. It's generally accepted here that is the usually the first one to read and putting it later on the list belies that. If you thought UoW was the greatest thing you've ever read and it should be first.. that's cool, but I'm more trying to think in terms of what the majority of readers would appreciate first and more importantly hook them in to reading all the Culture books which, of course, will lead to UoW. Tony Montana fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Jan 14, 2014 |
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Jan 14, 2014 21:24
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I started with Excession, then Look to Windward, then Inversions. I didn't get to CP, PoG, or UoW until after they got reprinted in the US a couple years after Excession was released. Didn't have any problems getting into the universe and I'm fine with my read order. 
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Jan 15, 2014 07:17
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I finished Consider Phlebas about a week ago and had no problem getting into it and read it pretty fast. I've been trying to get into Player of Games since but keep getting bored with it and putting it down to read other stuff. Just my two cents.
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Jan 15, 2014 08:22
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Basically, start the Culture series wherever you like, they're really good books and are quite different.
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Jan 15, 2014 10:19
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Don't overlook The Algebraist. It was the first Iain M. Banks book I read and I regret nothing.
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Jan 16, 2014 07:16
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oTHi posted:Don't overlook The Algebraist. It was the first Iain M. Banks book I read and I regret nothing. Same here, but I don't think it is a Culture novel. Not that that should stop anyone from reading it (I thought it was great), just a heads up if anyone picks it up looking for a Culture novel.
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Jan 18, 2014 02:19
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I about finished with Shards of Honor. It's good, but not great. How does the rest of the saga stack up?
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Jan 18, 2014 04:17
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Mister Kingdom posted:I about finished with Shards of Honor. It's good, but not great. How does the rest of the saga stack up? Honestly, depends on what you want. Read the next two books (the viewpoint shifts after Barrayar to The Warrior's Apprentice), and bail out after that if you aren't impressed. Barrayar is a bit more violent, a bit more political, and ironically a bit less space opera than The Warrior's Apprentice.
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Jan 18, 2014 05:00
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nightchild12 posted:Same here, but I don't think it is a Culture novel. Not that that should stop anyone from reading it (I thought it was great), just a heads up if anyone picks it up looking for a Culture novel. Yeah, its a non-Culture standalone novel. It has Gas-giant entities. 
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Jan 18, 2014 07:35
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oTHi posted:Yeah, its a non-Culture standalone novel. It has Gas-giant entities. Hah I loved the Gas-giant entities. Also I read it as the whole main plot macguffin being essentially an elaborate inside joke which I thought was hilarious once I got to the end.
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Jan 18, 2014 10:35
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oTHi posted:Don't overlook The Algebraist. It was the first Iain M. Banks book I read and I regret nothing. It was also the first Banks I read, and that stopped me from reading Banks for a couple of years.
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Jan 22, 2014 14:58
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Cardiac posted:It was also the first Banks I read, and that stopped me from reading Banks for a couple of years. Yeah, I think I'm with you. It's a really rough starting point - while Banks' prose is charming, it takes forever to get anywhere interesting.
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Jan 22, 2014 16:21
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I think I prefer the Algebraist over Bank's Culture novels actually. Might be a thematic issue for me though.
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Jan 22, 2014 16:34
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Threadkiller Dog posted:I think I prefer the Algebraist over Bank's Culture novels actually. Might be a thematic issue for me though. I'm kind of on the same side. I'm a sucker for stories about mysteries and exploration, so I loved reading about the attempts at communication with the gas giant dwellers. Then all the other stuff happened and I was hooked.
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Jan 22, 2014 17:35
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I concur. The Algebraist was probably my favorite book of his. I did enjoy most of the culture books too, but that one stands alone. I love a good space mystery. I guess some smart people saw the reveal coming, but it was a total shock and a "Of course. That makes total sense. Why didn't I think of that", which made it doubly-enjoyable for me.
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Jan 22, 2014 17:45
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Mister Kingdom posted:I about finished with Shards of Honor. It's good, but not great. How does the rest of the saga stack up?
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Jan 22, 2014 19:47
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Casimir Radon posted:Everything is good except for A Civil Campaign. I love the whole series and Civil Campaign is my favorite with Captain Vorpatril's Alliance running a close second. It really depends on taste.
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Jan 23, 2014 01:18
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Zola posted:I love the whole series and Civil Campaign is my favorite with Captain Vorpatril's Alliance running a close second. Yeah, I too love Civil Campaign, even if - or maybe because - it is somewhat Jane Austen in space. Same with Captain Vorpatril's Alliance, although I found it more like the rest of the Vorkosigan saga compared the A Civil Campaign, despite Ivan being the protagonist. Decius fucked around with this message at 07:50 on Jan 23, 2014 |
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Jan 23, 2014 07:46
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I really like the Miles and Ivan courtship stories. It makes me tear up a little bit every time 
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Jan 23, 2014 15:00
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Is Hilldiggers by Neal Asher any good? It's the Kindle sci-fi deal of the day and sounds interesting, but it also seems like it's part of a wider series.
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Jan 23, 2014 16:03
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Decius posted:Yeah, I too love Civil Campaign, even if - or maybe because - it is somewhat Jane Austen in space. Same with Captain Vorpatril's Alliance, although I found it more like the rest of the Vorkosigan saga compared the A Civil Campaign, despite Ivan being the protagonist. I think that the problem, ultimately, is the danger of power creep. If the author keeps the series solely about Miles' exploits, then she runs the risk of a male Honor Harrington. The only logical conclusion to power creep would be Miles becoming Emperor which we know is the last thing on earth he wants. So one way around that is to focus on different aspects of the character, and that's exactly what Bujold did. Civil Campaign was especially hilarious to me because of that Jane Austen vibe, and the spectacle of Miles treating winning his lady like a strategic war mission just made the whole thing funnier--but it was also in keeping with Miles' character. Captain Vorpatril's Alliance was fun to me because it took that old romantic staple, the accidental marriage, and made a really enjoyable story out of it. I enjoyed that much more than yet another "Intrepid Miles goes out and adds another trophy to his shelf". It's also been very useful to see other people's perspectives on things--it was great to get to know Simon and Ivan's mother a bit better. That kind of thing keeps the story universe fresh, at least for me.
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Jan 23, 2014 16:57
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Chairman Capone posted:Is Hilldiggers by Neal Asher any good? It's the Kindle sci-fi deal of the day and sounds interesting, but it also seems like it's part of a wider series. Same universe as the Polity/Spatterjay books, but otherwise unconnected.
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Jan 23, 2014 21:48
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Chairman Capone posted:Is Hilldiggers by Neal Asher any good? It's the Kindle sci-fi deal of the day and sounds interesting, but it also seems like it's part of a wider series. Its ok, as previous poster says standalone in a wider series but if memory serves it explains everything you need to know as it goes along. Fun but forgettable.
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Jan 23, 2014 22:08
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Chairman Capone posted:Is Hilldiggers by Neal Asher any good? It's the Kindle sci-fi deal of the day and sounds interesting, but it also seems like it's part of a wider series. This is the very last book in the Neal Asher Polity Universe series set thousands of years after Orbus. It's OK, but just OK. THE NEAL ASHER POLITY BY TIMELINE The Shadow of the Scorpion Gridlinked The Line of Polity Brass Man Polity Agent Line War The Technician The Skinner The Voyage of the Sable Keech Orbus Hilldiggers
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Jan 24, 2014 02:11
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specklebang posted:This is the very last book in the Neal Asher Polity Universe series set thousands of years after Orbus. It's OK, but just OK. I'd call it a bit better than ok. It gives the flavor of the Polity Universe, without a lot of the baggage implicit in the rest of the line.
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Jan 24, 2014 04:16
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specklebang posted:This is the very last book in the Neal Asher Polity Universe series set thousands of years after Orbus. It's OK, but just OK. I'm suddenly tempted to do a reread of these in chronological order.
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Jan 24, 2014 16:08
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EdBlackadder posted:I'm suddenly tempted to do a reread of these in chronological order. Ah, just caught an error. Missed one. THE NEAL ASHER POLITY BY TIMELINE (COORECTED TO ADD PRADOR MOON) Prador Moon - not a great book but important to understand the rayther complex Prador who will keep showing up The Shadow of the Scorpion - Young Agent Cormac Gridlinked - start Agent Cormac The Line of Polity Brass Man Polity Agent Line War - End Agent Cormac The Technician - Stand alone set on Masada - one of the best The Skinner - Start Spatterjay The Voyage of the Sable Keech Orbus - End Spatterjay. I loved the Spatterjay books most of all Hilldiggers - Long after all of this, we pick through the wreckage
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Jan 25, 2014 00:30
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Casimir Radon posted:Everything is good except for A Civil Campaign. Just finished Barrayar. Much better than Shards. I'm taking a break from the series and re-reading Asimov's The Caves of Steel and its sequels. It's been a while and I discovered I'd missed a couple of 80s sequels.
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Feb 9, 2014 00:21
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I've kinda run out of Sci Fi books to read. I've read most that have been recommended and interest me. I even trawled the threads of reddit to get some inspiration! Kinda in a down spot now, I found some really enjoyable ones which I blitzed through (like the Star Force Series by BV Larson). I decided to read Battlefield Earth again and am liking it after many years. Yeah Hubbard is a cocksucker but I actually really enjoy the book. Any more like it?
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Feb 9, 2014 19:46
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Ew, dunno about that, but I'm reading Brave New World because I'd never done it. It's some really crazy poo poo. If you haven't I'd say it's one of things you should. It's short too.
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Feb 9, 2014 22:30
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FX is adapting Redshirts as a miniseries. I really hope they go to the logical conclusion of adapting the novel and make it so that they realize that they're actually on the Redshirts miniseries itself, and have the character actors play themselves as well. Wil Wheaton also better be in it.
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Feb 9, 2014 23:15
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Chairman Capone posted:FX is adapting Redshirts as a miniseries. I really hope they go to the logical conclusion of adapting the novel and make it so that they realize that they're actually on the Redshirts miniseries itself, and have the character actors play themselves as well. I wonder if they'll change the book's story a little to differentiate it or if it'll just end up a retread of Red Dwarf: Back to Earth and The League of Gentlemen Apocalypse.
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Feb 9, 2014 23:39
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Zola posted:Captain Vorpatril's Alliance was fun to me because it took that old romantic staple, the accidental marriage, and made a really enjoyable story out of it. I enjoyed that much more than yet another "Intrepid Miles goes out and adds another trophy to his shelf". It's also been very useful to see other people's perspectives on things--it was great to get to know Simon and Ivan's mother a bit better. That kind of thing keeps the story universe fresh, at least for me. I hope for the next book it follows mile's wife. It would be cool to see her do a adventure or his clone working on another crazy rear end project.
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Feb 12, 2014 05:37
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My bet for the next book is that it's about Byerly Vorrutyer on Jackson's Whole.
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Feb 12, 2014 05:47
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Kshatryia and Nuovo Brazilia haven't gotten a book yet, even though they get a throwaway mention in pretty much every book. I was pretty disappointed with Cryoburn, didn't care enough about Kibou-Dani, or child-characters. Could stand for a more physical/kinetic character at some point as well. Maybe Armsman Roic to the fore for a book.
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Feb 12, 2014 06:08
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