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I just want these guys to stop walking into obvious zombies and tripping on things.
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Feb 10, 2014 20:13
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Naet posted:I also reject that Chandler Riggs is a good actor and I point to the gif earlier in the thread as my first exhibit of evidence. I was never really bothered by him before, but this episode's monologue had me cringing. I think he's okay in small doses, but clearly not ready for an entire episode to himself. But it's not completely Riggs' fault because that dialogue was clunky as hell even without a child actor saying it. "Or Mom." Jesus.
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Feb 10, 2014 20:23
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FogHelmut posted:I just want these guys to stop walking into obvious zombies and tripping on things. Has there ever been a character in TV or film that walked backwards without falling down?
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Feb 10, 2014 20:25
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Naet posted:I didn't mind Carl making dumb decisions or deciding to be a badass, but I'm wondering how many times we need to explore the relationship of overprotective Rick and rebelliously independent Carl. Can the show display these two within any other framework? I guess you missed that this was a resolution to that relationship tension by having Carl admit he did need his dad around after all, and Rick admitting that Carl was a man and didn't need to be treated like a child/protected. The writers took the time to let the characters resolve their issues. The relationship has been brewing to this point since the beginning, but I think it was a logical continuation. Now we can see how it goes from here, now that they have found common ground.
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Feb 10, 2014 20:30
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hollylolly posted:I guess you missed that this was a resolution to that relationship tension by having Carl admit he did need his dad around after all, and Rick admitting that Carl was a man and didn't need to be treated like a child/protected. The writers took the time to let the characters resolve their issues. The relationship has been brewing to this point since the beginning, but I think it was a logical continuation. Now we can see how it goes from here, now that they have found common ground. The problem is they've done this exact same plot before, multiple times. Rick learns to give his son a little bit more leeway because he's growing up and living in a hellish apocalypse, and Carl learns maybe his dad does have whats best for him in mind after all. Also I know it's not exactly easy acting when you're 14 years old so I'm definitely going to give the kid a break, but everything Carl did in this episode was either really idiotic, a rehash, or both. edit: The thing that bothers me is that it seems like such a small jump forward, happening almost immediately after the prison exile. Even at 14 I think I'd have the foresight to not be an rear end in a top hat to my gravely injured father just after he lost his daughter and I lost my sister. I'm so mad at you dad I'm going to force you to try and keep pace with me even though you've been shot and beaten to hell on one side of your body. Dad not waking up, probably because of some cranial injuries? Better violently shake him and then get really mad at him Not that Judith is actually dead That DICK! fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Feb 10, 2014 |
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Feb 10, 2014 20:36
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Carl was being a little poo poo, but I figure it's justified since he feels his dad is responsible for killing all of his friends/family and on top of that Rick's still treating him like a little kid. "Carl, eat your vegetables and don't cuss!" Teenage angst + zombie apocalypse = ultimate gently caress YOU DAD!
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Feb 10, 2014 20:44
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FogHelmut posted:I just want these guys to stop walking into obvious zombies and tripping on things. I'm sick of zombies falling on top of people and they can't get them off.
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Feb 10, 2014 20:46
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It was getting close to Carl's zombie rape fantasy and his ineffective shooting reminded me of teenage fears of sexual inadequacy. Sad for Carl but the zombie love pile was the closest to sex he has had in awhile. Puking is cumming in today's Zombie Reality euphronius fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Feb 10, 2014 |
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Feb 10, 2014 20:47
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^^ poetry.hollylolly posted:I guess you missed that this was a resolution to that relationship tension by having Carl admit he did need his dad around after all, and Rick admitting that Carl was a man and didn't need to be treated like a child/protected. The writers took the time to let the characters resolve their issues. The relationship has been brewing to this point since the beginning, but I think it was a logical continuation. Now we can see how it goes from here, now that they have found common ground. That DICK! posted:The problem is they've done this exact same plot before, multiple times. Rick learns to give his son a little bit more leeway because he's growing up and living in a hellish apocalypse, and Carl learns maybe his dad does have whats best for him in mind after all. Exactly. They've done this story before, and this time it made no sense contextually. Why is Carl mad at Rick in this episode?
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Feb 10, 2014 20:59
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Naet posted:^^ poetry. For not protecting everyone, ie letting Shane knock up Lori causing her to die during childbirth.
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Feb 10, 2014 21:01
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how the gently caress does a paid professional writing team make it that carl trips and falls that many times how do they get away with it how
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Feb 10, 2014 21:11
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Naet posted:Why is Carl mad at Rick in this episode? Because Rick is his dad.
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Feb 10, 2014 21:11
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Naet posted:^^ poetry. Because he is an angsty teenager who thinks everyone else he knew just died so he is raging. It makes sense but it doesn't make for great TV.
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Feb 10, 2014 21:12
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Naet posted:Exactly. They've done this story before, and this time it made no sense contextually. Why is Carl mad at Rick in this episode? I was going to post my usual the problem with (most) of the walking dead is how blind stupid their target audience statement, but I do actually agree with this. I think that the episode would have been a lot better without that anger being so immediate, but building up as Rick becomes less and less receptive or conscious giving the anger and desperation Carl undergoes a little more context and humanity beyond writing fiat. Other than that characterization misstep this episode was alright (I could have done without the pudding eating on the roof and the second zombie attack needed to be something other than Carl falling down while a zombie makes its moves on him). But, on the other hand, I just saw someone say that Season 1 was good and I'm 90 percent reminded about how loving stupid most Walking Dead watchers are. Mexcillent fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Feb 10, 2014 |
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Feb 10, 2014 21:14
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Naet posted:Exactly. They've done this story before, and this time it made no sense contextually. Why is Carl mad at Rick in this episode? I think that writers like to feel that they are too smart to just write about shooting zombies, and that they have to include drama to either feel fulfilled in their profession, or that they believe that the viewer will be turned off by lack of emotion. Therefore they do the X is angry at Y, and the reason is because it's a zombie apocalypse/The Galactica has been in space for long/some other lazy out to ignore the way humans actually behave. They also ignore the likely fact that teenage drama bombs probably only exist in the real world because they are a luxury that we can afford since we are not fighting zombies or drifting in space. If you want drama in your show then write it in properly instead of shoe-horning it in, unless they plan on revealing later on that the only survivors of the zombie apocalypse are all bipolar.
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Feb 10, 2014 21:15
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Mexcillent posted:
The first episode was that good that its got a lot of weight.
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Feb 10, 2014 21:16
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Tarquinn posted:What was the reason again they use the word walkers instead of zombies in the show and comic? They do use the word zombie, but for some reason goons keep saying they don't (I guess just to piss me off  )http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Zombies posted:While the term "zombie" does exist within The Walking Dead universe, it is seldom used. In the comic book, when Rick's group discover the prison, both Rick and Tyreese discuss how it still sounds funny to use the word "zombie". Likewise, in the Telltale video game, the term is used but very rarely. "Zombie" is never used in the TV series
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Feb 10, 2014 21:18
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FogHelmut posted:The first episode was that good that its got a lot of weight. Its fair. But god drat outside of that first episode everything else in that season is pure bullshit. E: I *guess* that the attack on the campsite was ok, but the vatos and cdc which bookend it and Laurie Holden's grief acting were all pretty bad. e2: I actually like big chunks of season 2 a lot better as a standard zombie narrative. Mexcillent fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Feb 10, 2014 |
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Feb 10, 2014 21:22
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socialsecurity posted:Because he is an angsty teenager who thinks everyone else he knew just died so he is raging. It makes sense but it doesn't make for great TV. Fair point, but I don't think the episode does a good job of showing this. Instead, the first scene is Carl being a total dick to his father who may or may not be dying, and the make-up scene is Carl coming to terms with Rick's mistrust and overprotective nature. Imagine if the episode was centered around Carl trying to nurture/protect Rick, and Rick responded by questioning Carl's ability to do so. Suddenly, this episode makes sense. Carl can talk about Rick's inability to take care of others. Carl can be mad at his dumb dad for being authoritarian when he's physically incapacitated. Carl can say, "Remember all those times you didn't trust me? Now you have to." Then, when Carl explores and eats pudding and loses a shoe, he realizes that while he isn't a kid anymore, he still needs a community, i.e. his dad. He realizes that best intentions, like luring walkers away from the house, don't always play out favorably, and that maybe the same can be said for Rick's leadership and parenting. But no. Rick thinks Carl is careless, the end.
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Feb 10, 2014 21:42
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The weirdest thing is he wasn't mad at all at Rick at the end of the previous episode. Now at the beginning of this episode, he all of a sudden hates his dad. It came off as completely random. I didn't even know why he was acting like such an rear end in a top hat until he had that awful monologue. Remember the moment a few episodes ago where he and his dad fought zombies together, his dad trusted him with a gun and Carl realized he actually did respect him. What happened to that? Was that all pointless? Did the writers forget?
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Feb 10, 2014 21:52
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Naet posted:Fair point, but I don't think the episode does a good job of showing this. Instead, the first scene is Carl being a total dick to his father who may or may not be dying, and the make-up scene is Carl coming to terms with Rick's mistrust and overprotective nature. Congrats, you just outlined a much better episode. Again, Riggs isn't a skilled enough actor to carry scenes(especially with any emotional content) and Kirkman needs to stay away from writing scripts. The end. Let's hope it gets back to (first half of S4)form next episode.
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Feb 10, 2014 21:58
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The only reason the complete rehash of earlier episodes bugs me is that this is time they're taking away from other, lesser known characters. I think it would have been cool if they left Rick and Carl alone for a while to focus on others and then Michonne could just stumble upon them in the exact same fashion because, well, it's Rick and Carl, of course they made it. Showing them as a cohesive duo that worked well together for a while would have done more for character development than this episode ended up doing, and now with Michonne with them that opportunity's lost.
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Feb 10, 2014 22:03
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Acinonyx posted:Has there ever been a character in TV or film that walked backwards without falling down? 
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Feb 10, 2014 22:17
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fullroundaction posted:They do use the word zombie, but for some reason goons keep saying they don't (I guess just to piss me off I seriously don't remember those scenes happening, what the hell.  e: Oh duh, it says "in the comic book". Though I also don't remember that scene in the Telltale game. Everyone play the Telltale game, it has arguably better writing and characters than the show.
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Feb 10, 2014 22:37
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Super Ninja Fish posted:The weirdest thing is he wasn't mad at all at Rick at the end of the previous episode. Now at the beginning of this episode, he all of a sudden hates his dad. It came off as completely random. I didn't even know why he was acting like such an rear end in a top hat until he had that awful monologue. I'm not going to try and excuse the somewhat wishy-washy nature of Carl/Rick but you do remember that the previous episode ended with them thinking that nearly everyone they had survived with were killed and, if not dead, possibly separated from them forever and with them just beginning to walk off? That monologue Carl had was basically describing this. There wasn't exactly a great moment during the shootout or immediately afterwards to whiz inside Carl's head during the last 30 seconds for some introspective inner dialogue.
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Feb 10, 2014 22:38
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precision posted:e: Oh duh, it says "in the comic book". Though I also don't remember that scene in the Telltale game. The only reason it's imprinted in my brain is because I always heard that not saying the Z word was A Thing and then when I read the comic compendium (fairly recently) it stuck out like a sore thumb. Linked in case anyone wants to see: http://imgur.com/Y5jaZvG (example from the comics)
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Feb 10, 2014 22:48
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Kibayasu posted:I'm not going to try and excuse the somewhat wishy-washy nature of Carl/Rick but you do remember that the previous episode ended with them thinking that nearly everyone they had survived with were killed and, if not dead, possibly separated from them forever and with them just beginning to walk off? That monologue Carl had was basically describing this. There wasn't exactly a great moment during the shootout or immediately afterwards to whiz inside Carl's head during the last 30 seconds for some introspective inner dialogue. When Rick put his arm around Carl and said "Don't look back", Carl could have pushed him away and went "gently caress off Dad, you got everyone killed" Sound ridiculous? It is, but I don't think it's any more ridiculous than the way last night's episode started, with Carl not waiting for Rick and waiting nothing to do with him. The episode began for the two of them on a completely different tone than the last episode ended. They walked away from the prison with their arms around each other. I wonder at what point did Carl stop and go "Wait, I hate him now."
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Feb 10, 2014 23:06
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I think somebody mention before that this was "gently caress YOU DAD!" the episode. Seems like an apt description.
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Feb 10, 2014 23:14
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Super Ninja Fish posted:
I kind of explain it away as Carl is a teenager, his feelings change as often as he trips.
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Feb 10, 2014 23:17
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Super Ninja Fish posted:When Rick put his arm around Carl and said "Don't look back", Carl could have pushed him away and went "gently caress off Dad, you got everyone killed" Sound ridiculous? It is, but I don't think it's any more ridiculous than the way last night's episode started, with Carl not waiting for Rick and waiting nothing to do with him. The episode began for the two of them on a completely different tone than the last episode ended. He just got done watching Hershel get his head cut off, and saw a ton of people dying left and right, while the place that they called home for a while was infiltrated and destroy. While I'm not an expert on human mental conditions, I think it's safe to say that Carl might have been in shock moments after all this poo poo went down. And it's pretty easy to understand why, after calming down from it a bit, he could start to have bitter and angry feelings towards his dad. Edit: This is also in the mindset that the writers actually know what they're doing and put actual thought into it, which I understand is probably giving them way too much credit. Edit 2: Carl is a kid, and kids are dumb, even in the zombie apocalypse. He was a dick to his dad, went out on his own, almost died twice, and then thought his dad was dead. I know it's a popular goon thing to act like if poo poo was going down you'd be cool, calm, and collected at any given moment, but that's not reality. People, ESPECIALLY KIDS, do really stupid, irrational, emotional poo poo all the time. 3 A.M. Radio fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Feb 10, 2014 |
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Feb 10, 2014 23:30
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Carl's transition from being a little shithead to his dad to all of the sudden not being one was really weird and uneven.
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Feb 10, 2014 23:34
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I think that there can be an accounting for of the time that it took for everything to settle in beyond survival for Carl but I still don't think it was handled well.
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Feb 10, 2014 23:38
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Michonne 
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Feb 10, 2014 23:40
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Bigass Moth posted:That episode was horrible. It still amazes me that this show can have the characters show extreme competence one episode and incredible mental handicap the next. Hey Carl, try the doorknob maybe? Did the pied piper routine accomplish anything except nearly getting a 14 year old battle-hardened kid killed for no reason? Stupid writing and bad acting. In Coooooorl's defense, he was likely leading them away from the house so he could kill them and the noise would not attract more to where daddy was passed out.
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Feb 10, 2014 23:44
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I don't get why Carl didn't just get their attention and sprint way ahead of them. Then lose them or kill them when they're sufficiently far enough away. It's not perfect and it's maybe overthinking it but I can't really think of a worse way to lead something away then to stand 2 feet away from it while backing up. It's not like zombies ever got a sudden burst of speed before or anything! Anyway, while I was watching the end of the marathon before this episode I noticed there was a black baby in Woodbury. What is the fate of said black baby?
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Feb 10, 2014 23:55
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Super Ninja Fish posted:
I wager after a few hours of "COOORRRRLE... COºººº000OORRRLE! SLOW DOWN CORLE!", Corle was a mite sick of it.
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Feb 10, 2014 23:56
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People waste no time at all... http://www.amazon.com/Bakers-Chefs-Chocolate-Pudding-112/dp/B00448333A
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Feb 11, 2014 00:02
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That DICK! posted:Anyway, while I was watching the end of the marathon before this episode I noticed there was a black baby in Woodbury. What is the fate of said black baby? Prob the same fate as everyone else who doesn't appear in the title credits. either dead or never mentioned again.
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Feb 11, 2014 00:04
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I think it's pretty funny that Michone's zombie on a leash thing has been proven to work perfectly twice but nobody else has tried it and they didn't string up a bunch of jawless zombies at the perimeter of the prison even though their smell clearly covers human scent.
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Feb 11, 2014 00:09
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Bigass Moth posted:I think it's pretty funny that Michone's zombie on a leash thing has been proven to work perfectly twice but nobody else has tried it and they didn't string up a bunch of jawless zombies at the perimeter of the prison even though their smell clearly covers human scent. What about dousing youself in zombie guts? Yea it's gross, but I mean, if you're cornered or you need to move through a herd...
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Feb 11, 2014 00:12
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