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Henchman of Santa posted:I'm guessing you're not entirely serious here, but stealing and raising a child as your own isn't exactly simple property reclamation. It also seems to be ignoring all of the emotional manipulation/abuse that she heaped upon Rapunzel over the years.
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Feb 11, 2014 17:10
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LeJackal posted:Maybe they should have sent a herbalist or court alchemist or somebody that wasn't a mob of well-armed soldiers to collect the only cure for the Queen's malady then. It seems a bit foolish to send a bunch of dudes who have 'murder, rampage, and violence' as their skillset out to collect and prepare the singular cure to someone's malady. Have you even seen the movie? Here's the relevant part: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhSVreVsjJo The soldiers aren't even armed, and they aren't the ones who prepared the cure. Also, Gothel was right there when the soldiers came over to get the flower, and did absolutely nothing (except try to hide it). To quote myself from a while back, she didn't need to say "leave that poo poo there, that's mine," all she had to do was pop out and say, Mikl posted:"Are you even sure that ripping up the flower will work? Because, you know, I'm 100% sure that if you bring the queen here and sing this song it will cure her of whatever she's sick with." and everything would have been 100% fine.
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Feb 11, 2014 17:19
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I've seen this said about comic book villains, but I guess it applies here: what makes them villains is that the sharing option wouldn't occur to them. They'd assume whoever arrived would just take it for themselves, and couldn't comprehend how being nice would work. Though my main irrational moment is still that they killed Gothel in the end, given that 'Love will redeem you' was ... bandit guy handsome... Flynn? That guy's major theme. Edit: Actually, loads of people. All the bandits, the uptight horse... everyone else got a shot at becoming a better person.
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Feb 11, 2014 18:04
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Mikl posted:Have you even seen the movie? Here's the relevant part: Until they erected a fort around the flower to safeguard it for all royal plague-curing. This was a no-win scenario for Gothel.
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Feb 11, 2014 18:49
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I love debating Disney Villains. I've always liked to think that Gaston was the oldest of several children, whose father died some winter, and he took up the household responsibilities like hunting, and slowly became an object of hero-worship, and eventually became an alpha-male charicature. I mean look at how everyone in town swoons over him. He has clearly been taught from a formative age that his size, physical abilities, and looks are what make him important. No time to learn how to read when you've got seven sibling to feed, right? He doesn't even proclaim himself as deserving the best, he's asking for his toady's confirmation. The actualy line is, "...and don't I deserve the best?" Jafar was incredibly progressive in how he sets about trying to take the throne, considering the era and culture, where most regime changes where the result of a coup. He sees that the ruler of Agrabah is an ineffectual man-child with no heir, and tries to marry up, instead of purging the royal family. He's clearly an intelligent guy, I mean he's the royal advisor, effectively running the country already for Allah's sake. (I may have read this one on cracked? I'm pretty sure it's not an original idea.)
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Feb 11, 2014 20:25
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Mr. Bad Guy posted:Jafar was incredibly progressive in how he sets about trying to take the throne, considering the era and culture, where most regime changes where the result of a coup. He sees that the ruler of Agrabah is an ineffectual man-child with no heir, and tries to marry up, instead of purging the royal family. He's clearly an intelligent guy, I mean he's the royal advisor, effectively running the country already for Allah's sake. (I may have read this one on cracked? I'm pretty sure it's not an original idea.) And the minute he's in control he enslaves a woman, places his palace on high ground to mark himself as better than the rest, and turns the sultan into...something (I don't remember). This is not a man who would rule a country progressively. He'd probably immediately send his armies out to claim more lands, crush the people of the land under his thumb, and turn the city into a poverty-filled hole where people die on the streets.
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Feb 11, 2014 21:00
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Morpheus posted:And the minute he's in control he enslaves a woman, places his palace on high ground to mark himself as better than the rest, and turns the sultan into...something (I don't remember). This is not a man who would rule a country progressively. He'd probably immediately send his armies out to claim more lands, crush the people of the land under his thumb, and turn the city into a poverty-filled hole where people die on the streets. Yeah, well, just like Gothel didn't wake up one morning and decide to kidnap and psychologically torture a baby, Jafar got a little bit more frustrate each time his (decreasingly reasonable) plans were thwarted. He was mad as hell, and wasn't gonna take it anymore. Go big or go home. Don't mess with Agrabah. Also Agrabah was already a poo poo-hole filled with starving street rats, because
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Feb 11, 2014 21:39
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Mr. Bad Guy posted:Yeah, well, just like Gothel didn't wake up one morning and decide to kidnap and psychologically torture a baby, Jafar got a little bit more frustrate each time his (decreasingly reasonable) plans were thwarted. He was mad as hell, and wasn't gonna take it anymore. Go big or go home. Don't mess with Agrabah. Also he was willing to kill Aladdin, straight up discard him. Was also indifferent about that first thief dying. I've always thought that if Jafar was actually more level-headed and not megalomaniacal, then he would've thanked Aladdin for the lamp, given his payment, and seen him back to Agrabah. Then Jafar would've got the genie, made his wishes, and all that.
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Feb 11, 2014 21:45
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Morpheus posted:Also he was willing to kill Aladdin, straight up discard him. Was also indifferent about that first thief dying. Tale as old as time (see what I did there?), unfortunately. So many Disney Villains were, like, right there and because they had to be spiteful, or petty, or lost perspective for seriously, two seconds they blow the whole wad. Gaston: "gently caress it. Three chicks at the same time, dude." Jafar: What you said. Evil Queen from Snow White: What was that, Baby's First Poisoned Apple? You had her dead to rights, and used Sleeping Poison? Ursula: You are actively causing a cataclysmic Waterpocalypse, and an alread-sunken ship stabs you in the uterus? Keep your head in the game until the final buzzer sounds and there's no flags on the play. Better yet, you succeded in marrying into land royalty. gently caress the ocean. gently caress it. Scar: Again, DEAD TO RIGHTS, and you have to fall victim to being voiced by Jeremy Irons, and monologuing, giving Simba the righteous fury he needs to overpower your ridiculous advantage. Also none of the bad things that happened were even your fault. Ok, to be fair, Mufasa probably would have pulled up stakes and followed the heard migrations.
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Feb 11, 2014 22:00
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Mr. Bad Guy posted:Scar: Again, DEAD TO RIGHTS, and you have to fall victim to being voiced by Jeremy Irons, and monologuing, giving Simba the righteous fury he needs to overpower your ridiculous advantage. Also none of the bad things that happened were even your fault. Ok, to be fair, Mufasa probably would have pulled up stakes and followed the heard migrations. I suspect that in a world of sapient gazelle who come and praise the apex predator, herd migrations may have been done because gently caress Scar rather than for random animal reasons. He let the hyenas in and gutted the herds while Mufasa kept the other predators away at the price of one pride's worth of antelope eaten.
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Feb 12, 2014 00:10
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Hell, all Scar had to do to win was kill Simba after the drat stampede. Hans: from Frozen, so spoilers seriously dude, you hosed it up because you had to monologue? All you had to do was kiss Anna, then when that didn't unfreeze her, panic because maybe it only works if it's the kiss when you kiss the bride, get some authority in here to marry you, keep trying to unfreeze her and she dies. But you're the king now. No more problems! Everyone even sees you desperately trying to save her. Instead, you screw the pooch. Cinderella's Stepmother: so you have her locked in the top tower? Not good enough. Tie her up, knock her out, lock her in the tower. And why not try on the drat shoe yourself? Disney's Tarzan actually wasn't too stupid; he plotted and planned and there was no way for him to know about some stupid elephant. Of course, he probably should have felt those vines around his neck. Jafar and Ursula both lost their cools; Ursula should have taken the signed contract from Triton, then weeded Ariel anyway and killed them both. Jafar, pull the street rat out of the hole, act worried about him, and when he gives you the lamp, give him way more gold than you promised once you're back in town. ....then have the palace guards murder him and take back your pocket change. Or gently caress, let's say you are down to your last wish: wish that Al and the genie will both be trapped in his lamp and not be found again for millions of years.
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Feb 12, 2014 00:20
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When Indy replaces the golden idol with a bag of sand. That sand weighs way less than a melon-sized golden statue. No wonder the trap sprung. Idiot.
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Feb 12, 2014 00:21
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Morpheus posted:And the minute he's in control he enslaves a woman, places his palace on high ground to mark himself as better than the rest, and turns the sultan into...something (I don't remember). This is not a man who would rule a country progressively. He'd probably immediately send his armies out to claim more lands, crush the people of the land under his thumb, and turn the city into a poverty-filled hole where people die on the streets. Progessive is relative to the time and place, and doesn't necessarily preclude doing terrible poo poo. Considering the time period and area, he didn't do anything that any of his contemporaries wouldn't have been doing. Except he was willing to come by his power legally (sort of). His contemporaries would have either murdered and destroyed to get their power, or they would have simply been born into it, and they for the most part would be doing the same things you think Jafar would be into. Jafar had so much control over the Royal guards that his orders overruled the princess's so he probably could have just had the entire Royal family strung up in the streets in pieces if he wanted to. He went through a lot of poo poo he didn't have to go through to avoid that, so he was pretty progressive, all things considered.
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Feb 12, 2014 00:28
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Lincoln posted:When Indy replaces the golden idol with a bag of sand. That sand weighs way less than a melon-sized golden statue. No wonder the trap sprung. Idiot. Somehow my brain has never realized this. I guess his look of deep contemplation and feeling the weight of the sandbag always made me assume that he was only off by a tiny bit. You're right, it's totally moronic if you consider density for half a second. And of course a nerd has crunched the numbers: http://antoine.frostburg.edu/chem/senese/101/measurement/faq/indiana-jones.shtml posted:If he didn't know the volume of the statue in advance he'd have to guess. In the movie, he hesitates, removes some sand from the bag, and then swaps it with the statue. But he doesn't get it right, because the trap is sprung.
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Feb 12, 2014 01:05
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How come Robocop, who is supposed to be the next step in law enforcement, can only move at a slow walking pace?
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Feb 12, 2014 01:05
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I think the whole sandbag thing is supposed to come across more as "there is something on the pressure plate" moreso than "there is something of equal weight on the pressure plate". What he did still wouldn't make logical sense because even if it had worked that way the pressure plate would have triggered the moment he lifted the statue off, weight be damned, though. 
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Feb 12, 2014 01:08
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Gaunab posted:How come Robocop, who is supposed to be the next step in law enforcement, can only move at a slow walking pace? These things only improve one step at a time you know. 
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Feb 12, 2014 01:09
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RoboCop's a tank, not a fighter jet.
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Feb 12, 2014 01:28
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Irrational tv moment, but I was watching Fringe with my friend, and there's an episode where some mutant dude has to drain pigment to become visible. The weird thing is, even though he's a serial killer, and he's in a city of MILLIONS, he didn't kill a single black person. All white dudes. If he needs massive amounts of pigment to become normal and visible, then he should have been an equal opportunity serial killer  Just irritating that when some dude who's intelligent enough to be some serial killer that needs to be chased around by the FBI ends up missing a blatant obvious thing.
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Feb 12, 2014 01:33
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:Irrational tv moment, but I was watching Fringe with my friend, and there's an episode where some mutant dude has to drain pigment to become visible. I tried watching Fringe and just couldn't get into it for reasons like this. It sells itself as a show about science and the approaching singularity, but 90% of the plot drivers are basically magic. Seriously, how the hell would lacking pigment make someone invisible? That's not how light works. And that episode where that guy eats pituitary glands to stay young. What dumbass thought that made any drat sense? It wasn't a terrible show, but I just couldn't suspend disbelief enough. I might give it another shot someday and just try to view it as as a fantasy show rather than sci-fi.
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Feb 12, 2014 01:58
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Eh, it works in a hand wavey kind of "It works because the laws of physics have been broken horribly in this universe and the other", but sometimes there's just obvious stuff where you go "What in the blue hell?" It's always fun trying to track down the observer in the shows though 
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Feb 12, 2014 02:00
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:Eh, it works in a hand wavey kind of "It works because the laws of physics have been broken horribly in this universe and the other", but sometimes there's just obvious stuff where you go "What in the blue hell?" I didn't get far enough to really see and understand all the other universe stuff. So maybe if I can get there it would all make more sense. Care to give me some minor spoilers about how the laws of physics are broken in the show? Might motivate me to watch it again if I can lean on that excuse to make sense of it all.
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Feb 12, 2014 02:03
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:If he needs massive amounts of pigment to become normal and visible, then he should have been an equal opportunity serial killer Well strictly speaking, he should have been targeting black people exclusively.
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Feb 12, 2014 02:07
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Esroc posted:I didn't get far enough to really see and understand all the other universe stuff. So maybe if I can get there it would all make more sense. Care to give me some minor spoilers about how the laws of physics are broken in the show? Might motivate me to watch it again if I can lean on that excuse to make sense of it all. Eh, basically Walter built a machine to go into an alternate universe about 20 years ago, and when he did that it caused all sorts of fuckery where the universes are both unraveling. One side has it a bit worse though. All the weird poo poo that happens (retrovirus, people falling into ashpiles, shapeshifters, etc) are because the rules are staring to fall apart and that means weird sciency poo poo can happen like floating people and giant killer viruses and whatnot can happen. It's really a good show, decent acting (some stinker episodes, but for the most part seasons 1-4 are pretty good.), and best of all it's on netflix. I haven't made it to season 5 yet.
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Feb 12, 2014 02:13
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My problem with Fringe was that literally every episode had that old guy saying "Ah yes I worked on that highly specific and deeply complex experiment back in the 80s". Every dang time. Each of these projects must have taken years yet he's worked on every single one.
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Feb 12, 2014 02:22
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EmmyOk posted:My problem with Fringe was that literally every episode had that old guy saying "Ah yes I worked on that highly specific and deeply complex experiment back in the 80s". Every dang time. Each of these projects must have taken years yet he's worked on every single one. Yeah, that was another thing that bugged me. Walter is basically a walking deus ex machina.
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Feb 12, 2014 02:25
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Yea, they always have some device somewhere. It's kind of like the science version of House, except that Walter is also on a shitton of drugs but not that big of an rear end in a top hat. I do have to say, it's got the best plot line setup from seasons 1-3 that I have seen since Babylon 5. Season 4 gets a little wiggly plot wise, but it fits in a weird way.
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Feb 12, 2014 02:35
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EmmyOk posted:My problem with Fringe was that literally every episode had that old guy saying "Ah yes I worked on that highly specific and deeply complex experiment back in the 80s". Every dang time. Each of these projects must have taken years yet he's worked on every single one. Most of the time it's because the weird fuckery is a direct result of the experiments he does - there are times (it's been a while, so I don't quite remember) where they are faced with completely new things. I think. What bugs me about that show is the completely off-the-rails fifth season that just comes out of nowhere. I mean, it was still pretty cool, but felt so incredibly out of place.
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Feb 12, 2014 02:52
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All of this Disney talk just reinforces my opinion that Mulan is the best Disney movie. Shan Yu isn't just evil for the sake of being evil, he's a Mongol warlord looking to invade China. Mulan isn't a brat who yearns for a more interesting life at the cost of her family, she risks everything to save her father. She's also not a poor damsel in distress who needs the handsome prince to save her, but actually rescues the male love interest herself. (And then saves all of China )In the final battle the villain isn't done in by some stupid misstep, Mulan just straight up kicks his rear end because she's a better soldier. And in the end Mulan doesn't rush off to marry a dude she just met, but instead invites him for dinner first. Forget all the intentionally "progressive" Disney movies they're trying to do now, Mulan was the original. Also I'd just like to say that Simba is the biggest rear end in a top hat ever. Nala tells him that Scar is treating everyone like poo poo, including his mother, and he's like "Whatever, I'm not coming back" and refuses to help them until his ghost dad tells him too. I get that he was upset about the death of Mufasa, but seriously, go and help your loving mom get away from your abusive uncle. Mulan would have!
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Feb 12, 2014 02:59
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Fringe started off boring got good then seemed like the writers were pulling poo poo out of their asses. I didn't like that when the main romantic couple got together they always came up with a reason to separate them.
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Feb 12, 2014 03:39
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Tin Miss posted:Also I'd just like to say that Simba is the biggest rear end in a top hat ever. Nala tells him that Scar is treating everyone like poo poo, including his mother, and he's like "Whatever, I'm not coming back" and refuses to help them until his ghost dad tells him too. I get that he was upset about the death of Mufasa, but seriously, go and help your loving mom get away from your abusive uncle. Mulan would have! Simba always struck me as one of the stupider Disney heroes. He never has a full grasp on the situation and even up until the end he is basically just reacting directly to the actions of another character (Rafiki, Nala, Scar). He's not a box of rocks or anything, but he really doesn't have any of that heroic insight a lot of protagonists get. Literally all of the other characters are smarter than him. I gave it some thought and Pumbaa and the hyenas made the cut. It's basically Hamlet, blah, blah, and most of the analogues fit really well, but it seems like a lot of Hamlet's wit was lost when he turned into a cartoon lion.
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Feb 12, 2014 04:53
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Tin Miss posted:Also I'd just like to say that Simba is the biggest rear end in a top hat ever. Nala tells him that Scar is treating everyone like poo poo, including his mother, and he's like "Whatever, I'm not coming back" and refuses to help them until his ghost dad tells him too. I get that he was upset about the death of Mufasa, but seriously, go and help your loving mom get away from your abusive uncle. Mulan would have! If you were essentially orphaned and raised by weird hippies after being convinced you killed your dad, you'd probably adopt some avoidant personality traits regardless of whether you're a princess or a lion.
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Feb 12, 2014 04:55
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Ror posted:Somehow my brain has never realized this. I guess his look of deep contemplation and feeling the weight of the sandbag always made me assume that he was only off by a tiny bit. You're right, it's totally moronic if you consider density for half a second. And of course a nerd has crunched the numbers: His last point is the most important: most "gold" things are just covered in gold leaf that is less thick than a sheet of paper. One of the major properties of gold is that it is extremely malleable.
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Feb 12, 2014 04:59
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FLEXBONER posted:His last point is the most important: most "gold" things are just covered in gold leaf that is less thick than a sheet of paper. One of the major properties of gold is that it is extremely malleable. Based on them tossing it around later in the segment I always assumed it was gold leaf and not solid gold. Based on the mechanism of the pillar falling down with the sand bag I'd always assumed the sand was heavier. The whole mechanism doesn't make a lot of sense frankly.
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Feb 12, 2014 09:24
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Maybe it's a volumetric pressure plate, hmm?
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Feb 12, 2014 09:30
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Strudel Man posted:Maybe it's a volumetric pressure plate, hmm? Considering all the other crazy bamboo+rocks technology on display in the Indiana Jones movies, it wouldn't surprise me at all. It still has nothing on the near-supercomputer levels of bamboo tech in Resident Evil 5 (the game), though
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Feb 12, 2014 11:12
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Fringe sounds like a show I both should and should not watch, but I'm assuming any references to pigmentation removal to turn invisible were an homage to HG Wells' Invisible Man, who's process involved just that, along with some unusual radiation. A lot of Wells' work has some pretty amazing 'science' in it, and really Steampunk needs to try harder to mimic it. My favorite is the spacecraft in The Men on the Moon. It flies because it's made of an alloy of helium.
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Feb 12, 2014 11:30
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The invisible guy can be seen with UV light  I think the best part of that episode was the fact everyone was waving around UV spotlights without any goggles on. GO GO SCIENCE POLICE! 
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Feb 12, 2014 11:58
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Morpheus posted:Most of the time it's because the weird fuckery is a direct result of the experiments he does - there are times (it's been a while, so I don't quite remember) where they are faced with completely new things. I think. That's because they needed a full length season to finish it but were only given half of one. Instead of rushing the story and compromising it thereby, they elected to remove an entire chunk of "how we got here" in order to retain full detail on the aftermath. I also initially gave up on Fringe because of Walter's constantly having worked on something similar, but I gave it a second chance and it clicked. You just have to roll with the weird, like you had to roll with Scully remaining constantly sceptical in The X-Files.
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Feb 12, 2014 12:08
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KozmoNaut posted:Considering all the other crazy bamboo+rocks technology on display in the Indiana Jones movies, it wouldn't surprise me at all. Seriously what sort of tribal technology could be triggered by blocking sunlight.
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Feb 12, 2014 12:27
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