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ImpAtom posted:... Renato's saber is pink. Actually its an animation error, the GM K9 is using a green saber in that scene. You can see it clearly when the K9 leaps back as the binder explodes. 
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Feb 11, 2014 18:37
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Actually its an animation error, the GM K9 is using a green saber in that scene. You can see it clearly when the K9 leaps back as the binder explodes. It literally changes mid-scene. You can see the green saber still in front earlier in the clash just before the wing binder explodes.  However it looks like Yuuki is holding the pink saber but it can't possibly be positioned there because the green saber is in front and thus the Renato brothers would be cutting right into Yuuki's suit so... yeah, this is just hosed up animation.
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Feb 11, 2014 18:47
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Yeah saber color changes in that scene. But that doesnt change the positions of the sabers or the fact that to hit that spot on the binder he would have had to have gone through the shoulder. So my point stands, for that scene the Renato's saber is the green one.
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Feb 11, 2014 18:50
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Blackchamber posted:Yeah saber color changes in that scene. But that doesnt change the positions of the sabers or the fact that to hit that spot on the binder he would have had to have gone through the shoulder. So my point stands, for that scene the Renato's saber is the green one. Except it does because as I pointed out the beam saber positions literally make no sense. It isn't a case of "the green saber and pink saber switched spots,' they're not coherently connected to where they should be on the suits. When Yuuki turns his (now pink) saber literally phases through the K9's saber to move. It basically seems to be a futile point to argue either way because the animation problems on that scene gets worse every time I look at it. Wait for the Blu-Ray to fix it, I guess. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Feb 11, 2014 |
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Feb 11, 2014 18:51
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ImpAtom posted:Except it does because as I pointed out the beam saber positions literally make no sense. It isn't a case of "the green saber and pink saber switched spots,' they're not coherently connected to where they should be on the suits. When Yuuki turns his (now pink) saber literally phases through the K9's saber to move. And sidestepping the core of the argument here, where the damage on the binder, the Kampfer's shoulder, in relation to BOTH sabers. Neither are in a position to have done the damage that caused it to explode.
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Feb 11, 2014 19:01
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Blackchamber posted:And sidestepping the core of the argument here, where the damage on the binder, the Kampfer's shoulder, in relation to BOTH sabers. Neither are in a position to have done the damage that caused it to explode. The saber vanishes behind the unit and there is the sound of impact. The binder melt as if it was impacted by a beam weapon. The obvious intention is supposed to be that they damaged the binder by pushing the saber forward but the damage animation is literally in-between frames. I mean seriously is your argument here really supposed to be "Yuuki's robot exploded for no reason" and not "This scene had bad animation?"
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Feb 11, 2014 19:04
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So what really happened that battle? Let’s just for a moment speculate shall we. The weapons container is at the back and to the right, totally inconsistent with the beam saber at the front left. So how did the Meijin’s weapons container really get assassinated? Is it the Magic Beam Saber Theory or was there a conspiracy?  I admit the joke doesn't work as well as I'd hoped, but all the analysis of freeze-frames just made me think of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MLc0udf_74 Elite fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Feb 11, 2014 |
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Feb 11, 2014 19:18
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ImpAtom posted:The saber vanishes behind the unit and there is the sound of impact. The binder melt as if it was impacted by a beam weapon. The obvious intention is supposed to be that they damaged the binder by pushing the saber forward but the damage animation is literally in-between frames. Well the original tangent was that the weapons binder that fell could have been damaged and it was mere luck that they didn't and Meijin's last effort could have ended with a dink weapon in his hands. Then the reply was that the binders are so well constructed that it was unlikely that the fall would damage them. So this all springs from my assertion that the binders are fallible because as I've shown the damage was caused by the energy of the clash and not from deliberate damage from a saber. So not from nothing, but rather nothing intentional by his opponent between frames since before that binder became damaged the sabers were both already pushed above the area of the binder that is damaged.
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Feb 11, 2014 19:24
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Blackchamber posted:So this all springs from my assertion that the binders are fallible because as I've shown the damage was caused by the energy of the clash and not from deliberate damage from a saber. So not from nothing, but rather nothing intentional by his opponent between frames since before that binder became damaged the sabers were both already pushed above the area of the binder that is damaged. The obvious intent, from the fact that the binder is shown as being damaged by a beam weapon, is that it was damaged. Yuuki is an ace pilot and ace builder who presumably knows his robot extremely well. The characters say onscreen that Yuuki lead them into a trap. So the argument of "well, it was lucky his binder wasn't damaged because a binder exploded in an unrelated circumstance, therefore Yuuki's win was luck" goes again everything that was shown onscreen. Blackchamber posted:So this all springs from my assertion that the binders are fallible because as I've shown the damage was caused by the energy of the clash This however is wrong. There is no lightning anywhere near the binder before the damage is shown. It literally appears between frames (and also "lightning from a saber clash damages a suit" is something that has never happened in Gundam ever.) The damage shown is also clearly beam weapon damage and consistent with the beam damage weapon shown in the rest of the fight. Using a badly animated shot to go "no, see, Yuuki's robot is actually really lovely and falls apart at the slightest damage" is like claiming that Impulse Gundam secretly has the power to transform into Strike Gundam. Context in the rest of the show makes it a little unlikely ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Feb 11, 2014 |
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Feb 11, 2014 19:27
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To date my favorite thing a GM has ever done is get thrown by the Blue Destiny, but that may have just changed. drat that episode was glorious.
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Feb 11, 2014 19:31
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This episode is literally about how loving awesome the Meijin Kawaguchi is because he is motherfuckin' Meijin Kawaguchi. He basically just says, "No, guys, Gunpla Battles aren't about tactics (war), it's about having fun (battling)." He literally pulls a bullshit last-minute play after getting his poo poo wrecked and pulls it off because he believes in the crazy funness of it all. He doesn't painstakingly build tiny troop carriers with miniature (1/144!) human figures so that he can stealthily win. He sticks rockets and cannons and boosters and poo poo on his Zaku and paints it red because it's cool and fun. What I'm saying is all you guys sitting around and going frame by frame to nitpick this episode are the Renato brothers and deserve to get your poo poo kicked in by the cool guys who are watching this show.
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Feb 11, 2014 19:36
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ImpAtom posted:The obvious intent, from the fact that the binder is shown as being damaged by a beam weapon, is that it was damaged. Yuuki is an ace pilot and ace builder who presumably knows his robot extremely well. The characters say onscreen that Yuuki lead them into a trap. So the argument of "well, it was lucky his binder wasn't damaged because a binder exploded in an unrelated circumstance, therefore Yuuki's win was luck" goes again everything that was shown onscreen. I wasn't saying that Yuuki didn't lead them back to the binder that fell as a trap, I'm saying his plan hinged on those weapons being usable and there should have been a chance that they weren't and its kinda bs that it wasn't even a consideration. Of course they'd be fine after that drop, they needed to be. Never happened before clearly makes it happening ever impossible. I concede your point. Still, I wonder how harmless energy like this is arcing all over a weapons binder full of ammunition: 
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Feb 11, 2014 19:42
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Not really. Yuuki spends his free time working out and practicing piloting from what we've seen. He takes it very seriously, he just remembers to enjoy himself while he's doing it and that he's doing it ultimately because it's fun, not because of a desire to win in and of itself. He was on the backfoot the entire fight, but it's not like he didn't put in quite a bit of preparation himself and he managed to evade all of their tricks or survive them because of his skill in piloting and Allan's in building. He had plans himself, starting with flushing out the Renato Brothers by firing at the likely sniping positions, going through walking in to their trap because it had to be done to get it out of the way and then luring them to the best place for him to be. It's only bullshit if you ignore his actions and focus solely on the Renato Brother's ones.
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Feb 11, 2014 19:46
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Blackchamber posted:I wasn't saying that Yuuki didn't lead them back to the binder that fell as a trap, I'm saying his plan hinged on those weapons being usable and there should have been a chance that they weren't and its kinda bs that it wasn't even a consideration. Of course they'd be fine after that drop, they needed to be. Why should it have been a consideration? There's absolutely no indication that the weapons should have been damgaed. Yuuki is a master pilot and builder who knows his robot and its weaponry even if he didn't help make it. He is capable (as seen in earlier episodes) of recognizing the nuances of a robot's build just by looking at it. We can safely assume the super-skilled guy knew that his guns weren't damaged without the show needing to pause the combat to have Yuuki go "Boy, I'm sure glad my dropped weapons, which I am luring my enemy towards, were not damaged in the fall, because I, Meijin Kawaguchi, am a pro fighter who knows what my machine's limits and capabilities are." And it is entirely harmless. It happens in every Gundam series. Nobody's Gundams have exploded yet, even the ones with missiles literally strapped to them. It is a visual effect. Reiji's face did not actually appear on the Strike Gundam when he was pitching his flaming fastball towards his enemy. We do not need to analyze the possibility that Reiji can transport his body into the Strike Gundam's because we, as a viewer, are expected to recognize that it is a visual effect unless the show explicitly shows us otherwise. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Feb 11, 2014 |
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Feb 11, 2014 19:51
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Generally Japanese things that have lightning during a clash are using visual shorthand, and even shows up in live action stuff. Whether it's beam sabers, metal swords, or just a stare down, the lightning isn't literally there.
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Feb 11, 2014 19:55
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tsob posted:Not really. Yuuki spends his free time working out and practicing piloting from what we've seen. He takes it very seriously, he just remembers to enjoy himself while he's doing it and that he's doing it ultimately because it's fun, not because of a desire to win in and of itself. He was on the backfoot the entire fight, but it's not like he didn't put in quite a bit of preparation himself and he managed to evade all of their tricks or survive them because of his skill in piloting and Allan's in building. He had plans himself, starting with flushing out the Renato Brothers by firing at the likely sniping positions, going through walking in to their trap because it had to be done to get it out of the way and then luring them to the best place for him to be. It's only bullshit if you ignore his actions and focus solely on the Renato Brother's ones. I'm not saying that he didn't put the effort into it. It's the way he puts the effort in. Like I said, he loves building and flying Gunpla that are nothing but cannons and boosters and rockets. He plays smart, but that's just it, he plays. But let's face it, at the end of the fight he was basically at the Renato brothers' mercy. They had him dead to rights. But then he pulls out his last-ditch crazy-rear end stunt (which yeah, there was prep for but it doesn't make this plan any last-ditch or fuckin' crazy) because he's a cool badass and because it's fun as hell. And then he gets a badass one-liner that's basically a summation of one of the major themes of the show. Raise your hand if you didn't go "gently caress YEAH!" when Yuki pulled that chaingun out of the rubble and just laid into the GM Sniper?
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Feb 11, 2014 20:02
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And it's bad that the guy having fun beat the guys who treated it like a job? Also, it's not really last ditch plan if you've specifically brought the fight to that place so that you'll have something and then got that something by flying to it. Not to mention the fact that he spent the night before the match analyzing what happened to Luang and trying to figure out what it was and a way to counter it. Again, the Renato Brothers put in effort in one way and fight in one way. Doing so doesn't somehow inherently make them better or more deserving to win that someone who also puts in lots of effort just because they fight in a flashier and more straight forward way. To put this another way: Given that the Renato Brothers primarily fight by sniping, trapping their opponents and/or tricking them in to doing what they want them too - how else was Yuuki supposed to fight them? He brought them down low by flushing out their sniping point and forcing them out, went through and survived all their traps, some by his skill in piloting, some by analysis, some by Allan's skill in building and then lead the fight to somewhere he had an advantage to use. What else would you have suggested he do? Yes, he was being defensive the entire fight, but avoiding and defending is still a tactic and requires skill too.
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Feb 11, 2014 20:20
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The ending soured me on the fight as a whole. It also seems like guns in GBF are built out of Leo parts because goddamn they can't not get shot
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Feb 11, 2014 20:33
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The Renato Brothers lost because they lost sight of the Fun of Gunpla. This is a show that says Gunpla is Fun. Gunpla and Fun in this series is embodied by the spirit of friendly competition and rivalry which pushes for self-improvement along with genuine enjoyment by way of the Gunpla Battle. The Renato Brothers used sneaky underhanded tactics so that they could A: win at all costs and B: humiliate their opponents. This is Not About Fun, and thus antithetical to the idea of Gunpla. Therefore, by this show's logic, they deserve to lose. Yuuki won because he fights for and believes in fun. Sei's dad is Literally the Fun Police. He should arrest all of you.
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Feb 11, 2014 20:36
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Speaking of which, I'll be pretty surprised if next episode isn't Nils getting shown the same basic message Getting all salty about the brothers being butts is kinda silly to me since Reji straight-up called Sazaki small-fry but I suppose that was just to show he's got hot-blooded shonen spirit. Anyway opinions
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Feb 11, 2014 22:22
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Mecha Gojira posted:Sei's dad is Literally the Fun Police. He should arrest all of you. Some people like to nerd out over details that really don't have a direct effect over the main narrative. Some people like to collect technical manuals of star ships from star trek, build plastic models as accurately as possible. Some people memorize sports stats. Everyone enjoys the fandom differently. People who discuss things at length are always spergs when they aren't things you care about. But if you are reading a thread designed to discuss a show and its inner workings... its part of the package, otherwise the thread would simply be 'watch the show'. end thread. So if you don't like people discussing things this is probably the worst place to be, a forum. tsob posted:Also, it's not really last ditch plan if you've specifically brought the fight to that place so that you'll have something and then got that something by flying to it. Let me tell you why I feel it was last ditch. I'm going to outline the battle, and you can tell me at what point the Meijin decided his winning strategy would be to retreat to the fountain to retrieve fallen weapons. With pics to keep things pretty! Kampfer takes the offensive to eliminate the sniping spots and to keep the MG from having time to set up traps and tricks.  Its apparent strategy is to have a shoot-out battle:  The MG sends out the K9 to flank the Kampfer:  The MG snipes revealing its position, Kampfer attempts to close in on it, taking the battle to them:  K9 snipes from the rear, knocking his weapons binder and rifle off which fall to the fountain:  New plan for the Kampfer, unable to engage from the top due to the MG's superior position and back up they go low:  That thing about not giving him time to set up traps? Success for the Meijin! oh... wait...  Dodging a shot from the K9 unit he skillfully jumps past another wire-trap... right into the waiting MG. Meijin saw it coming though... oh wait:  Meijin calling the shots and using his own plans/tactics:    Huge explosion! Throwing caution to the wind the MG closes in and has the K9 unit standing at the ready to back him up just in case the plan failed. Tsk no foresight and reckless by definition, prepping for that:   Kampfer gets saber happy, but is outmatched by the speed boost the exam gives the MG and in the clash their final weapons binder is wrecked. The Kampfer is stabbed multiple times as it begins to rush backwards and is forced to the ground by the press of the MG and the blasts from the K9's gun. The Kampfer rocket bellyflops to the fountain because of 'fate' according to the Meijin, and the Renato brothers realize that the Kampfer has managed to backpeddle to its fallen weapons. Cleva girl... To me the point I think the 'plan' took shape was after the Kampfer is being bested with sabers. Up until that point he is pretty sure that he will win with how things are currently. Blackchamber fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Feb 11, 2014 |
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Feb 11, 2014 22:38
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I'd say it's a little earlier than that actually, since he starts leading the GM backwards on his own route just before they deploy the Exam, even if only for a few seconds prior to it. At that point it still had one of it's weapon booster packs, which it lost in the ensuing blade press and then continued backwards once more until they got to the fountain. I'm actually going to stop arguing though, because I took last ditch to mean exactly the same as spur of the moment, when it really doesn't having thought about it for a few seconds. It was a desperation attack, but it was one he planned and set up to some degree. If that together with his analyzing the brothers tactics and preparing his unit based on it along with trying to flush them out, his skill and his constant practice and working out isn't enough for him to deserve it in your eyes because the Renatos put in different type of effort, arguing it isn't going to change your mind.
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Feb 11, 2014 23:10
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tsob posted:I'm actually going to stop arguing though Aww I didn't see it as arguing but I know how most people take things harsher online. This is just one of the ways I enjoy any fandom, nitpicking at it with other people. The harder it is to get to the 'a wizard did it' answer the subject matter is, the more depth and world building there must be.
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Feb 11, 2014 23:20
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How Yuuki won was unambiguously and clearly explained onscreen and was based entirely around him luring the enemy into a trap and taking advantage of the fact he had better battlefield awareness than they did at that moment. There's no "A wizard did it" about anything in the fight (aside from bad animation.) Yuuki took advantage of the fact his enemies overlooked his containers after they were dropped which is not any less a valid tactical option than the K9's many gimmicks, even if it wasn't set up well in advance. Especially if you compare it to last week where the final fight basically came down to "I guess the Build Knuckle outpowered a satellite cannon solar-powered sword by punching it really hard" which is kind of the polar opposite of this week's fight. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Feb 11, 2014 |
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Feb 11, 2014 23:27
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Oh, it's not that I was taking it harshly, it's just that the point seems moot since I was mistaking your intention. It was definitely a last ditch effort on his part, since it was a final desperate attack. He may have been able to use the rifle afterwards, and seemed to have found some cover but if it hadn't taken out at least the GM itself at that point we can only speculate on how things would have gone. Also, I'm not sure how much you really feel the Meijin didn't deserve to win it, which seemed to be at least part of the argument, but if pointing out all the hard work he puts in and that he both can and did strategize isn't enough to convince you he is at least equally worthy then further arguing isn't actually going to change that. It's entirely a matter of opinion at that point, and no amount of arguing will change it since the facts are so basic and it would literally just be retreading them in different ways for a while to no purpose. tsob fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Feb 11, 2014 |
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Feb 11, 2014 23:28
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Blackchamber posted:What battle were you watching? I wish I could watch a show like this and then completely see a different battle than what happened, that'd be double the enjoyment! I'm saying that that is exactly what they did. Why did they have to get into a beamsaber brawl and fight close range? Why get close at all? Why not simply continue to standoff and use the dual sniping/ trap combination and wear their opponent down into nothing like they had been for the entire fight? Because once the bombs had gone off they were convinced that they'd won, and all they had to do was close in and finish the job (gloating all the while). They never really snapped out of that. Tunnel vision.
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Feb 12, 2014 01:05
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They went in with the sword because Yuuki destroyed all the GM's ranged weapons. He shot the rifle as part of the "I didn't blow up" reveal then went all pistolero and shot the GM's own pistols out of its hands. Galaga Galaxian fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 01:10
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They still had the K9.
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Feb 12, 2014 01:15
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And an angry kampher getting in their face.
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Feb 12, 2014 01:18
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So run away and hide like they'd been doing the whole time?
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Feb 12, 2014 01:31
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tsob posted:Also, I'm not sure how much you really feel the Meijin didn't deserve to win it, which seemed to be at least part of the argument, but if pointing out all the hard work he puts in and that he both can and did strategize isn't enough to convince you he is at least equally worthy then further arguing isn't actually going to change that. It's entirely a matter of opinion at that point, and no amount of arguing will change it since the facts are so basic and it would literally just be retreading them in different ways for a while to no purpose. I dunno if its a retread, to me its a refinement... and usually its the finer points that have to hashed out. After 'retreading' what made it a last ditch plan even you seem to have conceded the point. You are also pointing out in my mind why the Meijin should have lost this fight. Aside from the greased up joints Yuuki didn't do what we knew him to do normally, 'put in hard work and have a strategy' in this fight, he didn't bring his A-game. Look at the screencaps I put up in my last post, he was primarily reacting to and under estimating his opponent (he didn't think he could set up traps in time, he stumbled into others and just powered his way through). He let his co-pilot Allan tell him what to do (don't go high, go low. Take cover here where you should have an advantage) and was thus forced into what he already suspected was a trap. He basically snaps out of it at the last minute and is able to turn the tables. And the proof in the pudding is how he reacts to his victory, knowing how untouchable a Meijin is supposed to be but seeing just how wrecked his machine got. He is mad at himself. He doesn't even say 'how much they (Renato Bros) damaged the machine' he says how much HE (Yuuki) damaged the machine because he feels his poor performance is what allowed them to score hits. Reiji and Sei are praising him and want to get to his level meanwhile hes thinking:  edit: Galaga Galaxian posted:They went in with the sword because Yuuki destroyed all the GM's ranged weapons. Not mention that aside from the K9's rifle his ranged weapons were pretty ineffective. It took a blast to the face from the MGs sniper rifle and that was 'blocking it'. The saber battle is pretty much where all the real damage was done. Blackchamber fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 01:37
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paragon1 posted:So run away and hide like they'd been doing the whole time? If they did that, the Kampfer could easily have just used its last weapon to blow up the hound now that Yuuki knew about it. That's why they immediately rushed to disable it. Besides, they had to blow their EXAM system trump card to even keep up, and using it to just run away would have been a complete waste. Their only mistake was not keeping track of the weapon binder they knocked off. That's really it.
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Feb 12, 2014 01:38
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BlitzBlast posted:If they did that, the Kampfer could easily have just used its last weapon to blow up the hound now that Yuuki knew about it. That's why they immediately rushed to disable it. Besides, they had to blow their EXAM system trump card to even keep up, and using it to just run away would have been a complete waste. Eh, fair enough.
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Feb 12, 2014 01:41
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Blackchamber posted:You are also pointing out in my mind why the Meijin should have lost this fight. Aside from the greased up joints Yuuki didn't do what we knew him to do normally, 'put in hard work and have a strategy' in this fight, he didn't bring his A-game. He had a strategy going in though. It just didn't work because he didn't know about their strategy of using a secondary unit as an artillery platform, so he had to run to give himself cover so he didn't die. Only, when he tried, he ran in to two traps that they had already set (avoiding one). And that by the way seems to be pretty plot assisted on their part, since they really didn't have much time as far as we saw to do it. Unless the show cut away dead time, then they managed it in a ridiculously short time. Anyways, he followed Allan's advice despite knowing it was a trap, because what else was he actually supposed to do? Seriously. What do you think he should have actually done different once he learned they had brought in the Hound as a secondary unit? Blackchamber posted:Look at the screencaps I put up in my last post, he was primarily reacting to and under estimating his opponent (he didn't think he could set up traps in time, he stumbled into others and just powered his way through). He let his co-pilot Allan tell him what to do (don't go high, go low. Take cover here where you should have an advantage) and was thus forced into what he already suspected was a trap. You act like avoiding and surviving things doesn't take skill in and of itself. He ran in to one wire trap and then immediately started looking for and avoiding others. Every time he saw a new trap he avoided it in future. The hound, the wire traps, the zeon soldiers. All of it. And you're dismissing it as just him stumbling through and under estimating his opponent. Now compare that to how the Renato Brothers reacted when something didn't go their way or when Yuuki threw up a surprise. They left him openings when he figured out the bombs, they stood in shock when they realized he had lured them to the container, they got angry when he blew the GM and ultimately they lost because while they were great at setting up plans they weren't great at reacting to surprises. While Yuuki is good at both. Which is why I don't think there's much point arguing with you. Yuuki did do a lot right that fight, and none of it matters to you because the Renato Brothers were more aggressive and thus apparently deserved to win solely on that basis. tsob fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 01:48
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I'm pretty sure the hound set up the wire traps.
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Feb 12, 2014 01:51
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How would it do so? It doesn't have manipulators. The Zeon soldiers may have, but they act like it's the first time it's deployed when they send it off once they've spotted Yuuki. Even then, the time is really short regardless. It probably was them, but it still seems way too short to set up two explosive traps that can take out city blocks, assuming they're equally powerful.
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Feb 12, 2014 01:55
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I feel like a terrible person for identifying with the Renato brothers: Having that experience in a game where the opponent/the audience thinks they're hot stuff when it's entirely possible to peg them down and you're not just so vocal about your loving "skill level" and could care less about the community around it. And when you do take guys like that by a surprise, it feels so good man.  ...And then you realize you take the game too seriously and lost the spiritual battle like the Renato brothers did. 
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Feb 12, 2014 01:59
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tsob posted:He had a strategy going in though. It just didn't work because he didn't know about their strategy of using a secondary unit as an artillery platform, so he had to run to give himself cover so he didn't die. Only, when he tried, he ran in to two traps that they had already set (avoiding one). And that by the way seems to be pretty plot assisted on their part, since they really didn't have much time as far as we saw to do it. Unless the show cut away dead time, then they managed it in a ridiculously short time. Anyways, he followed Allan's advice despite knowing it was a trap, because what else was he actually supposed to do? Seriously. What do you think he should have actually done different once he learned they had brought in the Hound as a secondary unit? His strategy going in wasn't much of a strategy at all. I'm fighting a sniper, I should hit all the places a sniper could hide. Spotted him, I'll just rush in now and win before he can use his tricks on me. I admit the set up time was slim but its not like the Kampfer was immediately in the thick of the Renato's traps. If I can speculate while the Kampfer was launching in and moving through the city to 'the destination' (there is a spacer where they show a flickering streetlight) the MG likely exited his gate and immediately started putting down his claymores right where he ported in and then went right up the building. So the distance the Kampfer would have traveled would be from its gate to nearly the end of the zone. If we assume this isn't the case then perhaps the MG is busy placing them while the Kampfer is busy nailing the rooftops and when it finished they went up the backside of one and that is why when we finally see where they are they are worried they'd been spotted, that they might have been spotted as they were finally moving into their nest. Either way its over 40 seconds from when the Kampfer ports in to when we finally see the MG. 40 seconds of play time. I'm not saying the Meijin is without skill. But lets face it, surviving an attack because your suit can shrug off most hits effortlessly (like beam rifle shots to the face) isn't one of the best examples of pilot skill. He avoided the second trip-wire by jumping right into another trap, and avoiding a trap by jumping into the waiting cross-hairs of an enemy's gun is not a good example of 'not stumbling through'. The thing with your arguments against mine is I've been backing mine up with screencaps and qoutes that support them, but you have not specifically addressed my points. I've stated at least two different reasons why the battle should have gone another way, superior strategy and the Meijin not living up to the standard he usually brings to each battle, ignored my statement that they weren't being aggressive so much as calm and calculating, and twisted all that into'he thinks aggressiveness should equal a win'. Thats why arguing with me becomes pointless, you aren't even listening to the points I've made.
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Feb 12, 2014 02:23
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People are listening to the points you made. You're ignoring the points they made. The Renato brothers had a solid set of tactics but a solid set of tactics do not win battles on their own. Meijin Kawaguchi did not have a long drawn-out pre-planned strategy but he adapts quickly to unexpected situations and is capable of adjusting to the enemy battle plans in such a way that he can come out on top. Being able to adapt quickly to changing circumstnaces when things go out of control is also a sign of a talented pilot and Yuuki proves he is able to do that by luring the Renato brothers into a trap after they ambush him with multiple trump cards. Your argument boils down to "The Renato brothers way of fighting is the only right way to fight and anyone else who wins has plot armor." Again, we have plenty of examples of plot armor fights. The like Star Build Strike fight was that in a nutshell where it won because its plot power was stronger than Mao's plot power and that determined the fight without any clear reason but "guess the RG Build Knuckle is stronger than the Maoh Saber." Meijin's victory was set up and explained in-series using things previously established as happening. That is just how fights work in fiction. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 02:32
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ImpAtom posted:People are listening to the points you made. You're ignoring the points they made. You know I think it says something good about this episode that reading this thread feels very similar to an after action report for a UFC event, complete with people complaining that the Renato brothers got robbed.
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Feb 12, 2014 02:34
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