PureRok posted:

I have to play a Ventrue every time I play just because of their last set of clothing. Equipment Spoilers: Male / Female

Edit: Since I've got these laying around from when I did an LP of this game 4 years ago, here's the clothing for all of the other clans (except Nosferatu and Tremere, I guess I didn't make any images for them.).

Brujah: Male / Female
Gangrel: Male / Female
Malkavian: Male / Female maybe
Toreador: Male / Female

Tiggum posted:

I love the fact that the Malkavian male seems to have thought he was in Saints Row. Brujah and Gangrel are just really boring.

Tiggum posted:

I love the fact that the Malkavian male seems to have thought he was in Saints Row. Brujah and Gangrel are just really boring.

Tiggum posted:

I love the fact that the Malkavian male seems to have thought he was in Saints Row. Brujah and Gangrel are just really boring.

UrbicaMortis posted:

I find it funny that most of the outfits at least look more protective as they go up but the gangrel just gets different coloured hoodies. We also need pictures of the nosferatu armours. I vaguely remember them getting increasingly gimpy as they went on.

UrbicaMortis posted:

I find it funny that most of the outfits at least look more protective as they go up but the gangrel just gets different coloured hoodies. We also need pictures of the nosferatu armours. I vaguely remember them getting increasingly gimpy as they went on.

double nine posted:

Here's a youtube video where the guy goes through all the armors. It's not particularly great but searching <<vampire bloodlines nosferatu armor>> gets you a bunch of ... armor mods...

Bobbin Threadbare posted:

schmooze like the Ventrue spawn you are.

gatz posted:

Okay, we're not going to rat out Mercurio, but suck up to LaCroix. We also are going to run into two other political groups in the upcoming part, and I decided to play it like a Ventrue and


If not just to learn about these groups in their own words and not have them be aggressive towards us.

Shugojin posted:

Well, it's really the only sensible choice. A brand new just barely not caitiff vamp is going to need all the information he or she can get to stay unliving and that means not pissing anybody off for a while.

Part 12 posted:

Our top story tonight: a derelict ship found floating ten miles off the Los Angeles coast earlier this morning was towed into the port of Los Angeles a few hours ago. The ship was spotted around midnight by fishermen, who contacted the Coast Guard after their attempts to hail the ship proved futile. Coast Guard officials are releasing very little information right now, but have identified the vessel as the "Elizabeth Dane". No word as of yet as to the whereabouts of the crew, though the Coast Guard are asking any ships that had contact with the Elizabeth Dane to assist them in their search. We'll have more on this story as it breaks.

Part 13 posted:

An update on the Elizabeth Dane: The ghost ship was towed into county waters off the port of LA, where police are searching for evidence of the crew and whether the ship was being used in drug- or terrorist-related smuggling. Coast guard search parties are still patrolling the area where the Dane was first spotted, though the fate of the crew is still unknown.

Part 4 posted:

Thaumaturgical Creatures posted:

E. Bankins, Regent, Chicago

Gargoyles: During the medieval conflict with the Tzimisce, Clan Tremere delved further into secret blood magicks and created a race of protectors known as Gargoyles. Since their inception, Gargoyles have been used as scouts, warriors, and sentries. Gargoyles are monsters, vampires by virtue of the blood and flesh through which they are created. They are no more than the detritus of other clans, given a second chance to serve their Tremere creators. Unfortunately, many have wrongly come to view their service as slavery, and have fled their masters in search of some delusional Utopia. Most escaped Gargoyles live in isolation, preferring solitude to even the company of their own kind.

Homonculi: For the most menial and mindless tasks, many Tremere create what is called a Homonculus. These are mindless creatures which take many forms, winged, many-legged, or otherwise. Homonculi are unfailingly loyal, but their appearance makes them a serious threat to breaking the Masquerade.

Vicissitude posted:

Gargoyles are an interesting clan in the WoD because they're not technically a clan. They were artificially created vampires given the form of traditional church/castle guardians. The Tremere used captured Gangrel, Nosferatu and even Tzimisce prisoners and mingled the vitae of each to create a new breed of subservient vampires. In this, they both succeeded and failed. It's inherently inbred into a Gargoyle to take commands from a vampire. They have effectively 2 fewer Willpower dots when resisting Dominate or similar mind-affecting powers. On top of that, they can only ever have an Appearance of 0, like the Nosferatu. As such, they don't get out much and have to stick around being told what to do by their Tremere masters.

As to the failure, the Gargoyles are a "clan" in that they are capable of perpetuating their bloodline. They can give the embrace to mortals and create childer like any other normal clan. This led to the Gargoyle Rebellion a long time ago, which was put down by the Tremere but made them wary enough that Gargoyles aren't really created anymore. Or at least, not in any significant number.

The Sabbat also came up with their own false clan, but they learned from the Tremere's mistakes. The Blood Brothers cannot sire, and are fanatically loyal to each other and their sect.

Bobbin Threadbare posted:

Keep quiet and schmooze like the Ventrue spawn you are.

OAquinas posted:

Ah, the tremere. Like pretty much everything in the WoD we've been over them earlier in the thread, so here's the cliff's notes:
Around the turn of the millennium (that's 1000 AD) a house of mages in the Order of Hermes (one of the big Mage groups--think of them like clans only arranged by their take on magic and how the universe works) notices that magic is fading from the world. Stuff just doesn't work like it used to--most importantly, their immortality conjurations. Not wanting to embrace oblivion, Tremere and his closest allies start researching alternatives to keep on ticking. His #2 guy (or #3, depending on who's telling it) Goratrix experiments on vampires--who are functionally immortal by nature--and declares he has an answer. Naturally, everything goes as planned and that's the end.

...of course not. His magic elixir made from the blood of several Tzimisce elders just winds up Embracing the mages who take it. So the heads of House Tremere wake up to find themselves vampires. A side effect is that their soul companions that allow them to do magic--their Avatars--are painfully stripped from them and permanently killed. They can't do their magic like they have anymore.

Tremere was a persistent guy though, so he forcibly embraced the rest of House Tremere into his new vampire line. They then take their Hermetic system of magic and use the supernatural power of their vampire blood to make it work. It's a huge step down, but it's still quite powerful--and a good thing for them, since the Tzimisce were pissed at what Goratrix did and waged brutal war against the new vampires. The Order of Hermes also freaked out at the new vampire mage clan and also purged what Tremere they could find. The Medieval era was a time of unceasing open conflict for the tremere--which saw the creation of many eldritch horrors to aid them, like the Gargoyles and Homonculi--among other more twisted and terrible things.

To gain legitimacy, Tremere figured they needed a 3rd generation head for their new "clan," of course deciding it should be himself. They invented a magic antediluvian locator and found Saulot, the Salubri founder, hidden nearby. So they went out and Tremere himself drained him dry and that was that.

...of course it was a trap. As Tremere absorbed Saulot's blood and consumed his soul, Saulot disagreed and began to fight for control. The two powerful minds fighting put Tremere's body in a state of torpor (vampire coma). The Vicissitude he picked up from the Tzimisce resulted in his body randomly morphing and changing, reflecting the battle within. This would be the status quo for a few centuries.
During this time, Tremere's lieutenants--the Council of Seven--moved the clan base to Vienna and ran things. They supported the foundation of the Camarilla, which granted them protection and power and (relative) peace for the first time. Since having one blood enemy wasn't enough, they helped the Camarilla crush the Assamites and curse the majority of that clan with an inability to consume kindred blood.

Fast forward to the modern nights. The assamite curse was recently lifted/shattered by one of the newly-risen Ancient assamites, and the assassin clan has apparently nursed a grudge. Who knew?

Tremere also finally got evicted from his body by Saulot, and Etrius (his real #2 guy) piggybacked Tremere's soul, brought him to Goratrix (who broke away from the clan and led the Sabbat Tremere antitribu) and somehow soul swapped Tremere into Goratrix's body. G got stuck in a mirror. Tremere then called in the entire antitribu line to do some ritual while lying about what it did, which was to nuke every single one of them and transfer their blood power to Tremere, making him 3rd generation again.

There's more to the story (of course) but that's the core of it: mages too stubborn to die steal vampirism, and then have to claw their piece of eternity in blood and fire from the rest of the immortals arrayed against them. For every ally they make they create two enemies. No one likes them, no one trusts them, but everyone is scared of what they can do.

Sword Hunter Gil posted:

RoboChrist 9000 posted:

So I'm a little confused about Mages, exactly. If reality in the OWoD is basically consensus and magic is all about being a lucid dreamer, why can't a Vampire or other supernatural be a proper mage? Why does being undead exclude you from realizing that reality is basically just a big shared mass hallucination?

Vampires aren't alive. Having a soul, and thus an Avatar, is central to being able to work True Magick (yes it has a k, yes it's pretentious). When a vampire dies, they lose the potential to work their will on reality directly, and must instead go through their own blood powers. Mages are called Awakened; unAwakened are called Sleepers.

The long and short of it is that a Mage can work his will directly on reality like a canvas, eventually transcending his need for "spells" and "magic systems" in favor of becoming something...more. They have the potential to Ascend, whatever that means within the story of your particular game. However, until he Ascends, any big, flashy magic hits him with Paradox - the universe essentially popping him upside the head for being a dumbass. Paradox can get really ugly, too - it can invent whole realms out of nothing to trap you in, or summon really nasty spirits like Wrinkle (a Time-sphere Paradox spirit - get it) to screw you over hard. This gets DOUBLE ugly if you do it around a normal person - normal people cannot accept a dude throwing a fireball as a real thing, and their unconscious Avatar reinforces the Consensus and makes it twice as bad. You never ever ever ever EVER want to do flashy ("Vulgar") Magick with Sleepers watching or around. It gets...ugly.

Your Avatar is...it's literally your soul. It might also be pieces of Sidereal Exalted Shards, if you buy into the metaplot, but that's a really long and crazy story that isn't necessary to understand. However, every human being, ever, everywhere, has an Avatar. You have one too. It just isn't Awakened. It's Sleeping. If you are a living human being, you have an Avatar, and thus the potential to Awaken. Mage is all about the various groups of Willworkers trying to bring people around to their way of thinking. I'll get to that in a minute. A Mage expresses his will by using his Avatar, and he uses his Avatar through his Paradigm - his system of magic, the rules by which he understands the world to work. Paradigms are things like "Science" (we'll cover that in a bit), "Hermetic Magic" a la Crowley, "Techno-Sorcery", "Druidic Rituals"...however you believe the world is supposed to work. What happens when you do Magick is that you use that belief in your Paradigm through your Avatar to paste your will onto the world. Paradox happens because your Paradigm doesn't agree with the Consensus - mortals are trained to believe that painting chalk lines and summoning a demon is not possible, so the Consensus agrees with them because all those unAwakened Avatars reinforce it, and Reality pops you for Paradox.

Your Avatar is limited only your greater understanding of the mechanics of Magick ("Arete", literally Enlightenment/Mastery within the context, not sure what it means normally) and your understanding of the nine Spheres of Magic, which represent the underlying mechanics of all Reality, according to most theories. The Disciplines are really not important to this discussion. As a Sleeper, your Arete is 0, and so your Avatar knows only the Paradigm you have been taught all your life. At higher Arete, you can just...do anything. Archmages, with 10 Arete, are basically living Wizard Buddhas who can break reality if they really wanted to, on a fundamental level. They do not, because it would probably kill them. But they could.

Vampires and other supernatural creatures cannot become Mages. Vampires, Wraiths, Mummies, and Demons (looong story) are dead and thus have no souls, Changelings and Werecreatures aren't proper humans, Hunters...Hunters are funky. Only proper, normal humans can Awaken their Avatars and become Mages. These other creatures all have defined, though powerful, rules by which their powers operate, and can never transcend those limitations. Vampires must use blood, all Disciplines work the same way, et cetera. In exchange, however, all of those other supernatural types operate despite or in defiance of the Consensus, without paradox. There are a million theories about this - latent belief in (these things) because of movies and books, an inherent immunity to Paradox, alien creatures from other Realms (loooooooonger story)...it just goes on and on.

Basically, a Vampire uses blood to draw inside the lines of his coloring book, and a Mage uses his will through his Avatar to splatter paint like a Jackson Pollock.

Now, the Consensus is, essentially, Reality as we know it. It is the subconscious influence of every Sleeper and every Mage on Earth, defined by the primary Paradigm of Reality that influences these Sleepers. Currently, the Paradigm is Science, and it has been since the Renaissance, because the Technocratic Union kicked everybody's rear end. See, a long time ago, the primary Paradigm was Magic. During the Dark Ages, Wizards ruled openly. Magic was crazy everywhere, but it was for the elite, the TOP GUYS, and not for Everyone. And Wizards, well, Wizards are assholes. They used their powers to push people around and generally be better than everybody, because they thought life would never change.

Ha, ha. No.

A group of guys got together and decided to make the world a place worth living. This became the Order of Reason. They essentially invented Science, proving simple ideas with invention and logic and, uh, Reason. They showed normal people how to gain power through stuff like "cannons", and also improved their lives with things like "crop rotation" and "plows". At the time, this was simply those peoples' personal Paradigm - though most of them probably had NO IDEA that that was the case. But because these guys were out and about, kicking Wizard rear end and teaching people how to be Happy, they won the support and belief of the populace - and as the Sleepers change, so too changes the Consensus. People began to Believe in Order and Reason and Logic and Science, and stopped believing in demons and faeries and dragons and Magick. The Paradigm shifted, and the age of Magick died, and the age of Reason began.

The problem is, the Order of Reason got too big, too fast. It became a monolithic entity known as the Technocratic Union, a massive bastion dedicated to protecting YOU, YES YOU, RIGHT THERE IN THE CHAIR from the 'Reality Deviants' - things that didn't "fit" the Technocratic Consensus. You know - Vampires, Werewolves, all that poo poo...but especially Mages. There are still dudes who believe in Protecting The World, but much of the Union is now corrupt, and seeks to Control And Command, not Protect And Guide. The Union is Blackhats And Mirrorshades, Cyborgs And Mad Geneticists, Big Business And Space Marines. They want to protect you, yes, and they are legitimately doing that, but they want to protect you by stamping out anything different and reducing the world to what they believe, or so the Mages would have you believe. In truth, the Union is not evil, just a massive machine doing what it was designed to do long ago. Also, the average Union member doesn't believe in Magick. They call their stuff "Genius" or "Reason", and all their "Magick" is done through actual technology. All the technology you use? It was Magic, at one point. They just made you accept it until it became a normal part of your life, and then you never questioned it, because your unAwakened Avatar keeps it running through your own unconscious acceptance. Essentially, because you believe your computer should work according to the principles that these people have told you, it does. It malfunctions because Paradox is a thing, and more advanced machines - super-science and cyberpunk-type poo poo - malfunction because we just can't accept them yet...just like when a Mage throws a fireball and your brain goes WHAT? NO! and the Mage gets popped by Paradox. The Union's Conventions (sub-groups, organizations according to specialty) are:
-Iteration X - Cyborgs, manufacturers, and mathematicians. They are the muscle of the Technocracy, as well as its industry. They make the toys and then they use the toys. They are masters of the Force discipline of Enlightened Science, as well as Matter.
-The New World Order - Men In Black, spy and mass media poo poo. They are masters of the Enlightened Science of the Mind, and do subtle Control stuff throughout everywhere and every government. Black Hats And Mirrorshades.
-The Syndicate - Banks, Big Business, and Mafiosos. They bankroll the Technocracy, and use Entropy Hyperscience to fiddle with stock markets and personal lives alike.
-The Progenitors - Doctors, both Mad and normal. Geneticists, Moreau-style and otherwise. They use Life Hyperscience to develop drugs and also horrible monsters.
-The Void Engineers - Explorers, they fly around in Space and underwater and in the Netherworld and through Time. They use Correspondence, Time, and Spirit ("Dimensional") Enlightened Science in equal measure.

In order to combat the Union, and the spiritual decay and depression that it has brought on the world, the various remaining Mage traditions joined together and became the Nine Traditions. They are outgunned, outmatched, and generally more of a rebellion than a legitimate side in the Ascension War (the battle to define the Consensus, Permanently, Forever. It's still in flux). The Traditions are bastions of individual expression, encouraging You to define yourself and your Magick so that you can come to an understanding of the world through your own eyes. The Traditions are:
-The Akashic Brotherhood - Kung Fu Wizards. Monks who meditate and do kung fu with Magick. Their Paradigm is...the Akashic Records, I guess? I don't know them terribly well. They do Mind Magic.
-The Celestial Chorus - Religious Churchy Wizards. Not necessarily Christian. Their Paradigm is Religion And Miracles. They are Prime Magicians, which means they are "meta-magicians" and do magic that affects the energy that powers magic and stuff.
-The Cult Of Ecstasy - Drug Wizards. They fuel their Magick with hedonism in order to experience the wildest dreams and make them real. They are Time Magicians, because drugs and time dilation.
-Dreamspeakers - Shamans, from everywhere, of every stripe. Traditional, New Age, and Techno. They are Spirit Magicians because of course they are.
-Euthanatos - Death Wizards. Necromancers, but not really. They put people to rest when it's their time to die, and are kind of crazy. They are Entropy Magicians.
-Order Of Hermes - Lines of chalk, angels and demons. What you think of when you think of traditional wizards. They are Force Magicians, which means they use forces to blow you up.
-Sons Of Ether - Defectors from the Technocracy. They rebelled when their personal theory, Ether, was written out of the Consensus and "disproved" by a certain experiment. They are basically Victorian pulp inventor/adventurers. Pure awesome. They are Matter Magicians.
-Verbena - Blood wizards and druids. Nature hippies. They are Life Magicians.
-Virtual Adepts - Other defectors from the Technocracy, more recently, after their buddy Alan Turing was...assassinated, and in the process invented/redefined the Internet. The Internet is another world, and the Virtual Adepts are trying to prepare for everybody to be uploaded into it for Ascension. They are hacker-wizards and cyberpunks. The are Correspondence Magicians, which is a fancy way of saying Space.

Predictably, when you get a room full of people with the power to bend reality, the egos that come with that power, and a wild disagreement on how Magick works, well...uhhh....yeah. The Traditions suck at cooperating, which is bad, because the other guys have literal magical nuclear weapons.

Notably, the Technocracy is responsible for stopping an Antediluvian dead in its tracks. When Ravnos woke up, a whole horde of Supernatural Creatures showed up to stop it, but the final blow was dealt by three Kuei-Jin pulling back the clouds above the Antediluvian...in order to let the Technocratic Union's GIANT MIRROR SATTELITE blast it with PURE SOLAR RAYS FOCUSED LIKE A MAGNIFYING GLASS. This was shortly after they hit it with a magical nuke that tore apart the spirit world around Ravnos, and a whole bunch of other people hit it with other less awesome things.

So that's Mage 101. It's complicated, interconnected, and requires a GIGANTIC infodump because otherwise those words like Consensual Reality and Avatar don't make poo poo for sense, nor does why Magick doesn't show up in the open, nor do any of the other weird eccentricities Mage brings to the table.

Stroop There It Is posted:

I have another hilarious Tremere fact that was only briefly touched upon before. OAquinas mentioned the Salubri, who are (possibly one of) the clan(s) descended from Saulot, who Tremere diablerized. Even prior to this event, the Tremere were regarded with extreme suspicion and not considered "real vampires" because of the way that the clan came to be (their vampirizing ritual occurred in 1022). After the diablerie of Saulot in 1133, which only made them look worse to other vampires, the Tremere then started waging a war of propaganda against the Salubri with the intent of wiping them out.

Salubri, nicknamed "Unicorns" (yes seriously), were composed of two main bloodlines, healer types and warrior types, and were probably the least dickish vampires in the history of WoD. Their clan flaw is that they would lose health levels for drinking from unwilling victims, and as I mentioned, many of them had a Discipline that gave them healing powers. A high level of that would even allow them to remove a soul from a body and hold it until it was cleansed of sin (in mechanical terms, improving their Path rating). They would also develop a mystical third eye.

What did the Tremere do? They spread rumors that the Salubri were soul-sucking demon-worshipers and framed them, turning nearly everyone else against them, and attempted to destroy as many of them as possible so that they couldn't refute the story. Why was this so successful? Well, there's a drat good chance Saulot himself was helping. Their population was decimated within a couple hundred years. There are supposedly only 7 typical Salubri left in the world in the modern setting, with the exception of some antitribu in the Sabbat looking for vengeance.

OAquinas posted:

So yeah, that's mage. They still exist, and in fact the Order of Hermes still exists--House Tremere was only one faction of that Mage "Clan."

Getting back to vampires, blood magic in the Final Nights is getting a bit weaker/more unreliable, but the Vampire reason for it (as opposed to the Mage reason or Werewolf reason) is that Gehenna approaches. End of the world, man. That said, it's only "failing" in the sense that "elders are concerned about this, here's a plot hook" and not in any rules/systems way.

As for LaCroix...
He probably is as old as he claims. But keep in mind that means he's probably just about to tick over to 200 years as a vampire, which while certainly putting him in the "Respectable" category doesn't make him some refined Elder--indeed, the calcified Ventrue old guard probably starts at 500 years and goes up from there.
Which isn't to say he can't wield power, but if you think of it like a company, it's one where the executives never retire, rarely die, and only get more jealous and protective of their power as the years tick on. Advancement to positions of real influence and worth are rare and difficult to make happen. One good way to jump up the ladder is spearheading new territory--like LA after the Anarch Free States collapsed due to the Cathayan invaders.
LaCroix has shown his naked ambition before--he probably tried to carve out a fiefdom in Africa, failed, but managed to somehow get his silent enforcer out of it. Africa, by the way, is almost totally ignored by White Wolf outside of Egypt...which is to say they're not any different from most Americans. It was only in the last few years they made a splatbook for African vampires, which to better serve the stereotype they took the clans and did a tribal spin on them. The big brute is actually a Tzimisce spinoff.
Getting back to everyone's favorite Prince, he probably saw the opportunity in LA, and rolled the dice on it despite the inherent dangers. We'll see his impulsive (desperate?) gambling aspect later on. The Camarilla is losing ground in the US, so the Elders in charge probably offered him some token support in this endeavor--if he's successful they gain a major city. If not, it ties up the Anarchs and Sabbat, so they win all the same. It's also the attitude they had towards New York for quite some time until they had a chance to seize the city outright. The Inner Circle of the Camarilla plays the long game.

So LaCroix is basically an older Ancilla (step above neonate) in vampire age and power, trying to crack into the Elder big leagues. He's not toothless and powerless, but he's also way out of his league and trying to hide it. The Anarchs fully recognize this (not that they'd acquiesce to him otherwise), but also see their own weakness after the invasion and are rolling with it so long as the upstart prince doesn't get too demanding--which is why LaCroix is very careful not to push Nines too far (as seen in the prelude theater scene).

LaCroix is a 200 year old Ventrue, so it's entirely possible he can be 7th generation. He's likely higher (8th or 9th) but its not out of the realm of credibility for him to have that pedigree. So even if the PC has the oddly low generation theorized (8th gen), LaCroix would be capable of using Dominate as Gatz mention he does if you resist his 'suggestion.'

Interesting thing about Dominate...if you're lower generation it just doesn't work on you. However even if you're the same or higher gen, if you have high willpower it gets very hard to do successfully (Pen and Paper system is a diceroll, the difficulty is the target's willpower. Weak willed target, easy roll. Strong willed target, good luck!). A freshly-embraced, confused neonate is probably a pushover, but that condition won't last forever...

LeJackal posted:

Princes (not necessarily male) vary in age due to the nature of the city they control. Mostly because being Prince is a pure and fundamental role - the Prince is the Prince because he is the Prince. It is a kind of mutual assent fueled by years of tradition and the fact that anyone who can take and hold the office of Prince will do so, and the moment the Kindred of the city fail to follow, the Prince is sure to fall.

Sometimes the Prince is a strong Elder, who has a knife at every back and cash in every pocket, who controls the city Kine and Kindred alike through a well-built web of favors, intimidation, and knowledge. Sometimes the Prince is a figurehead (neonate or ancilla) propped up by a more powerful Elder or ruling group of clan heads or something.

A Prince has to knowledgeable, respected, feared, and obeyed. He must command a certain amount of loyalty from his court officers and be able to maintain a sense of order and safety, insofar as is expected of the office. There is no traditional age requirement, its just that young Kindred using lack the capacity to maintain the office of Prince.

LaCroix could well be a young, somewhat inexperienced Kindred, hard to say as the Ventrue usually groom their childer intensely before exposing them publicly. One could certainly see a more powerful Elder putting LaCroix in place as Prince, handing off the Sheriff to him as a means of intimidation and enforcement, then pulling the strings from afar.

It could also be that Strauss is just a massive, pompous rear end in a top hat and wanted to insult LaCroix by calling him a no-nothing punk.

Stroop There It Is posted:

Sleep of Bronze posted:

OAquinas posted:

So LaCroix is basically an older Ancilla (step above neonate)

This phrase makes about as much sense as "pigs can fly". Dammit, White Wolf!

The order of terminology (from the corebook) basically goes:

• Fledgelings: Idiot babby vampires, freshly Embraced
  
• Neonates: Inexperienced young vampires. You can still be called a neonate at 100+ years old if you haven't demonstrated your worth to your elders.
  
• Ancillae: Relatively young but experienced vampires (guidelines would be 100-200ish years old), who have proven themselves to some degree, but are usually still stuck being lackeys to elders. Most vampires are ancillae or below.
  
• Elders: Hundreds of years old, plenty of time to accumulate power and tell your Humanity to gently caress off. The book makes the point that someone considered an elder in the New World (like Lacroix) may be considered an ancilla in Europe, the Middle East, or elsewhere Cainite vampires have existed in numbers.
  
• Methuselahs: Usually over a thousand years old, usually give no fucks about mundane affairs, and are generally involved in schemes that take centuries to plan and execute. Very inhuman, and spend a lot of time in torpor.
  
• Antediluvians: Ancient, godlike vampires of the 3rd generation. The clan founders are (mostly, a notable exception mentioned above) included here.

So basically, Lacroix is probably old enough and more importantly has built up enough influence to grab/be assigned to a newly seized territory like LA, but especially compared to the Ventrue power structure, he's not actually that high-up or even in that great of a position. OAquinas summarized it well.

gatz posted:

Actually, I've heard that St. Louis is actually in worse shape than Detroit.

IMJack posted:

I guess you have to get a little crazy sometimes. Cheated yourself a few dots of Dementation for the dialogue, huh?

gatz posted:

It's wesp5's fault.

OAquinas posted:

tremere stuff

RoboChrist 9000 posted:

So I'm a little confused about Mages, exactly. If reality in the OWoD is basically consensus and magic is all about being a lucid dreamer, why can't a Vampire or other supernatural be a proper mage? Why does being undead exclude you from realizing that reality is basically just a big shared mass hallucination?

tlarn posted:

I'm still new to the whole WoD thing, but I figured that anyone could philosophize on the nature of the universe and stumple upon its true nature, but being able to act on that knowledge is another thing entirely. Like, you can have the most intelligent dog around, but it can't do much without thumbs. Vampires just don't have the thumbs for that kind of magic, I guess?

gatz posted:

How old is the normal prince? LaCroix certainly was embraced young (20's-early 30's, it looks), but he was embraced back during the time of Napoleon.

gatz posted:

How old is the normal prince? LaCroix certainly was embraced young (20's-early 30's, it looks), but he was embraced back during the time of Napoleon.

Sword Hunter Gil posted:

EDIT: I totally forgot to ask. I'm about to start Bloodlines for the first time. Do I want the most recent WESP5, the Clan Quest mod, or the Camarilla mod? The ClanQuest mod seems to be two years old, the Camarilla updated kinda recently, and the WESP5 updated most recently. They all include WESP5 to some degree, but...I don't know what I want to do. I will likely only play the game once, though.

OAquinas posted:

So LaCroix is basically an older Ancilla (step above neonate)

Sleep of Bronze posted:

This phrase makes about as much sense as "pigs can fly". Dammit, White Wolf!

OAquinas posted:

Interesting thing about Dominate...if you're lower generation it just doesn't work on you.

OAquinas posted:

Africa, by the way, is almost totally ignored by White Wolf outside of Egypt...which is to say they're not any different from most Americans. It was only in the last few years they made a splatbook for African vampires, which to better serve the stereotype they took the clans and did a tribal spin on them.

"Stroop There It Is posted:

This is probably why Therese laughs at you when you try to Dominate her (from update 7).

quote:

Africa, by the way, is almost totally ignored by White Wolf outside of Egypt...which is to say they're not any different from most Americans. It was only in the last few years they made a splatbook for African vampires, which to better serve the stereotype they took the clans and did a tribal spin on them.