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I just don't remember them being so drat expensive. I somehow lost the 3rd ed dex and a shitload of models--I couldn't tell you why my tomb Spyder with scorch marks all over it from when I tried to weld the gun on is still around while my pristine, painted Pariahs, Wraiths, and Destroyers mysteriously vanished. I gotcha on the "stay out of charge range." It's always nice to hear what works from the perspective of someone who plays against it. Thanks. I'll keep the warscythe since I don't know what else I would do with the ten points anyhow.
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Feb 12, 2014 08:11
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 05:50 |
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Cataphract posted:I still really hate that chestpiece and shield. Rest is magnificent. Haha thanks. I've found it get's mixed reviews, some like it, some hate it. I'm just kind of glad it's almost done. 
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Feb 12, 2014 12:57
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LordAba posted:
Somebody fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 14:04
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:Are Stalkers/Hunters worth it at all, in the current game? Anyone?
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Feb 12, 2014 14:25
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:Anyone? I too want to know, because I think the Skyray looks dumb and I would rather not have to take it in my Tau army. No flyers for me, thanks, I will stick with my hovertanks and robot battlesuits, you know, the gritty realism for which WH40k is known.
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Feb 12, 2014 14:27
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AbusePuppy posted:Other folks have been largely correct in their general assessments, but to summarize my experiences. Thanks - and also thanks Pierre and Icon of Sin for your comments as well. My group is luckily not obsessed with winning at all costs, it's pretty laid-back, which shows with the rules we'll be trying for climbing on top of my space bugs! I don't
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Feb 12, 2014 14:54
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:Anyone? Personally, I've purchased two of the Hunter/Stalker kits, but have only fielded them a few times. I thought the Hunter would be good against Skimmers, but Eldar simply have too many ways to make the shots irrelevant. The Stalker will shred FMCs but it sucks against everything else except the lightest of skimmers. S7 AP4 just isn't enough of a guarantee that you'll actually manage to damage something higher than AV11. If either had Ignores Cover or even just ignored Jink saves they'd be really good but as is they're pretty mediocre compared to the rest of the really good stuff in the heavy support slot. If you're in a meta where people are all playing Chaos Daemons then by all means take a Stalker or two and go crazy, otherwise leave them at home. If you're thinking about taking a defense line, just take one of these instead. panascope fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 16:17
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That's basically what I thought. I kind of thought it would be good against CD/Tyranid flying circus poo poo but you're right, either getting one AP 2 shot per turn (with the Skyspear) or a bunch of AP4 shots isn't really helpful. I guess the Stalker could be good if someone is dumb enough to use Gargoyles or something, but if that's the case I don't think you really need to worry about what you're fielding. A shame. They looked pretty cool.
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Feb 12, 2014 16:21
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So is the general anti-flyer advice for Space Marines simply to grab an Aegis Defence Line and Quad Gun, then? It seems like it's the most bang for your buck, given that it has Interceptor.
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Feb 12, 2014 16:28
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Personally I hate the aegis defense line for space marines. It forces you into using devastators which aren't that great, or wasting a tactical squad parked behind the thing. Scouts with camo cloaks might be okay but I play pretty much exclusively against Eldar and I know right where the first serpent shield shots would go. Use Stormtalons instead.
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Feb 12, 2014 16:35
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The Storm-s are really good. I'm not sure which people prefer, but I like them both. edit: yeah ADLs are really bad for SM. The cover saves are nearly useless for them and like panascope said you're either wasting a HS slot on a Dev squad or you're missing out on using a Tac squad.
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Feb 12, 2014 16:35
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Well, that makes sense. I went back and looked; somehow I missed that all Flyers can choose to switch all their weapons to Skyfire for a phase. I didn't really see much point in Stormtalons before but now they look amazing (especially with a Skyhammer).
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Feb 12, 2014 16:56
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Stormtalons own, especially against low Ld models like guardians or IG heavy weapons teams because of the strafing run special rule. But they also have enough firepower to be a credible threat against vehicles.
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Feb 12, 2014 16:58
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They're also 110 points and most lists just shrug their shoulders at Fast Attack so it's not like there's a lot of competition.
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Feb 12, 2014 16:58
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Scouts with camo cloaks are tailor-made for manning quadguns on ADLs, what are you guys even talking about with this Devastator poo poo. They even have a BS4 sergeant specifically to man the quadgun! The Stalker seems like a fairly decent AA platform. The Hunter doesn't put out enough fire to really make it seem worth it, even if the homing missile thing is cool. I'll be taking a Stalker with my Ultramarines if those old Epicast bits ever show up. Most flyers are fairly lightly armored, and S7 should be enough to hit them and chip off some hull points.
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Feb 12, 2014 16:58
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The only real use I see out of an ADL for SMs is for the Comms Relay, because rerolls to reserves is pretty sweet. But that's about it.
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Feb 12, 2014 16:58
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panascope posted:Personally I hate the aegis defense line for space marines. It forces you into using devastators which aren't that great, or wasting a tactical squad parked behind the thing. I'm curious (I'm not a marine player), but why not split the Tac squad into two squads? You could stick a heavy weapon behind the ADL plus 4 dudes, one of which fires the quad gun. Then the other half of the squad can still take objectives.
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Feb 12, 2014 17:00
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xtothez posted:I'm curious (I'm not a marine player), but why not split the Tac squad into two squads? You could stick a heavy weapon behind the ADL plus 4 dudes, one of which fires the quad gun. Then the other half of the squad can still take objectives. Because 5 man Tac squads are bad, mostly. 5 wounds walking across the field is just easy VP.
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Feb 12, 2014 17:02
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SRM posted:Scouts with camo cloaks are tailor-made for manning quadguns on ADLs, what are you guys even talking about with this Devastator poo poo. They even have a BS4 sergeant specifically to man the quadgun! Scouts suck though, you're basically into your anti-air for 155 points by then and anything with ignores cover will take a dump on them. Why not just take a Stormtalon at that point and have an actually useful model? xtothez posted:I'm curious (I'm not a marine player), but why not split the Tac squad into two squads? You could stick a heavy weapon behind the ADL plus 4 dudes, one of which fires the quad gun. Then the other half of the squad can still take objectives. Basically what super neat toy said. Regular tactical marines are ok at holding objectives in groups of ten but in groups of five, even with a transport, you don't have enough ablative wounds to keep the special weapon dude alive or to hold objectives under weight of fire. panascope fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 17:04
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How bad are Assault Centurions, exactly? I mean, they're basically competing with Assault Terminators, but they're more versatile, probably better at killing armor, can ID a lot of models, can take meltas/HB, and still get to take LRs. The Hawk Lords player I'm playing against uses a sizeable squad in a LRC and I'm wondering if they're worth looking at more closely.
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Feb 12, 2014 17:14
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:How bad are Assault Centurions, exactly? I mean, they're basically competing with Assault Terminators, but they're more versatile, probably better at killing armor, can ID a lot of models, can take meltas/HB, and still get to take LRs. I believe it is a lack of Inv save that hurts most. CC is where giant monsters (sometimes literally) excel and if you are not ready to get hit hard then you will probably die. The other type of combat is grinding though a 'tarpit' which they might not have the volume of attacks to actually perform. In the end I suppose it is a point issue as well when compared to normal standby of TH/SS terminators. edit: But hey, I am not a marine expert, I just pick up what you guys say. on the note about me being inexperienced in SM what kind of a list would you make with 3 drop pods and the Stormraven +2 storm talon as the majority of my vehicles? What chapter tactics would work for an army like that? I have some models and I will eventually do some fluffy-but-still-semi-competitive chaos-count-as. 1850pts? WhiteOutMouse fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 17:23
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will blow your mind.
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They're pretty bad because they don't have an invulnerable save. Monstrous Creatures will clean house. They're really expensive too. 5 Assault Centurions (the limit for the land raider crusader) cost as much as 7 assault terminators, who will get 4 more attacks in close combat.
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Feb 12, 2014 17:27
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PantsOptional posted:So is the general anti-flyer advice for Space Marines simply to grab an Aegis Defence Line and Quad Gun, then? It seems like it's the most bang for your buck, given that it has Interceptor. Bring airplanes. The defense line and stalker/hunter are bad. xtothez posted:I'm curious (I'm not a marine player), but why not split the Tac squad into two squads? You could stick a heavy weapon behind the ADL plus 4 dudes, one of which fires the quad gun. Then the other half of the squad can still take objectives. Because 5 marines dicking around in the backfield is 5 less marines moving forward holding the middle of the table/assaulting crappy units/tying up scary units. SUPER NEAT TOY posted:How bad are Assault Centurions, exactly? I mean, they're basically competing with Assault Terminators, but they're more versatile, probably better at killing armor, can ID a lot of models, can take meltas/HB, and still get to take LRs. Pretty bad. Slow, not durable, get doubled out by the most common CC threats in the game. The only cool thing is S9 at initiative but anything worth while will swing before them, and need a drat land raider to deliver them. If you want a land raider it should be full of honor guard or grav centurions. WhiteOutMouse posted:on the note about me being inexperienced in SM what kind of a list would you make with 3 drop pods and the Stormraven +2 storm talon as the majority of my vehicles? What chapter tactics would work for an army like that? I have some models and I will eventually do some fluffy-but-still-semi-competitive chaos-count-as. 1850pts? Eh. Iron hands probably. Maybe fists if you have some dev squads. It depends what the pods are delivering. Naramyth fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 17:28
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I initially wrote them off, but I'm thinking of a 5 man squad, and that's 11 (16 on the charge) S9 AP2, Armorbane attacks. It's at I4, which leaves a lot to be desired, but they still get free artificer armor (basically) and are T5. The glaring issue I see is is WS4 (besides the obvious issue of getting them into combat), but if I'm willing to tolerate it for Terminator Squads I don't think it's fair to not extend them the same courtesy. S&P is poo poo, yes, as is the lack of DS, but I'm thinking of at least trying them for a game or two and seeing how it goes.
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Feb 12, 2014 17:33
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I definitely don't think I'd run the Assault Centurions for all the reasons listed above, but part of me really wants to run a squad of Grav-cannon Devastator Centurions (possibly with a Land Raider DT if the points allow) though I suspect that may be ill-advised.
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Feb 12, 2014 17:49
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WhiteOutMouse posted:... what kind of a list would you make with 3 drop pods and the Stormraven +2 storm talon as the majority of my vehicles? What chapter tactics would work for an army like that? I have some models and I will eventually do some fluffy-but-still-semi-competitive chaos-count-as. 1850pts? Naramyth posted:Eh. Iron hands probably. Maybe fists if you have some dev squads. It depends what the pods are delivering. Things are still very much in the brainstorm stages at this point. I even have 10 chaos warriors on warhorses I planed on converting into bikers at some point.
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Feb 12, 2014 17:52
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Grav Centurions are good, there's no need to theorycraft them.
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Feb 12, 2014 17:52
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A squad of ML / Las centurions with a Tau buff commander granting them all the various bullshit he can provide is pretty amusing - twin linked, ignores cover, monster hunter and tank hunter being primary. I was experimenting with that, a couple thunderfire cannons, and a ton of marine bodies to just get in the way. It gets almost prohibitively expensive though.
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Feb 12, 2014 17:53
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They're already TL, at least. I don't think it's ever worth it to not take grav-cannons in any situation where you'd want to take Centurions. edit: Their major issue is a FOC one. They're competing for a really stacked HS slot. A 50S RAYGUN fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 17:56
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WhiteOutMouse posted:Sternguard maybe, or just tacticals, probably not dreads. I really like the special ammo and almost don't see the need to buy special weapons or combis beyond maybe meltas, since the bullets can do most everything else and save a lot of points. Iron Hands are always a good choice IMO.
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Feb 12, 2014 18:05
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It's easy to overlook but yeah holy poo poo free FNP/IWND is like, really loving good.
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Feb 12, 2014 18:06
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:They're already TL, at least. I don't think it's ever worth it to not take grav-cannons in any situation where you'd want to take Centurions. I think their major issue is that the Grav-Cannons are short range but are also the most interesting weapon choice.
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Feb 12, 2014 18:06
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What about splitting the squad's weapons up and giving one of them the TL lascannon? With an Omniscope on the sergeant you could alleviate the short range somewhat. Or, hell, spend the points and get the MLs if you have room for it.
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Feb 12, 2014 18:11
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WhiteOutMouse posted:Sternguard maybe, or just tacticals, probably not dreads. I really like the special ammo and almost don't see the need to buy special weapons or combis beyond maybe meltas, since the bullets can do most everything else and save a lot of points. Sternguard I'd probably bring in Pedro to make them scoring, so that means fists. However I'd probably do tacs and have a chapter master (maybe with a jet pack even!) come in so you have a face puncher for turn two because I think having a mobile mini monstrous creature and being Iron Hands is better then Sternguard.
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Feb 12, 2014 18:16
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Jump Packs can't fit in Drop Pods, unfortunately.
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Feb 12, 2014 19:08
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What's the go-to choice for FA slots in SM in a mobile list? Stormtalons?
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Feb 12, 2014 19:17
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Stormtalons are the best but land speeders and attack bikes rule too.
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Feb 12, 2014 19:20
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I was looking at them but for 110 points for a Stormtalon it's kind of hard to justify spending 150 pts on Land Speeders or 135 on Attack Bikes
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Feb 12, 2014 19:22
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gently caress the haters, having a serf brain flying around the board blowing things up with a sorta-melta shot is awesome (one less strength than melta, same special rule). And the Savant Lock is amazing. Hunters 4 lyfe. Someone mentioned Dakka being bad. Titmarine: Evolution.    It is our species that truly to blame.
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Feb 12, 2014 19:41
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 05:50 |
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The thing that gets me about those is that space marines universally have some sort of ornamentation across the chest. Instead this sperg gets rid of cool details for monster tits. Death to America.
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Feb 12, 2014 19:47
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