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Literally The Worst posted:Triple small set draft is a bad idea, why do people insist on doing it? There's a reason the draft format is BTT. I'd guess wizards has fiddled with draft formats so much over the last few years people don't remember/understand that the idea was large set would have format staples like removal, draw spells, etc, for draft and block constructed and small sets would add a few little things, but as a stand alone they don't have enough of the necessary cards. Or at least that was always my understanding.
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Feb 12, 2014 18:20
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jassi007 posted:I'd guess wizards has fiddled with draft formats so much over the last few years people don't remember/understand that the idea was large set would have format staples like removal, draw spells, etc, for draft and block constructed and small sets would add a few little things, but as a stand alone they don't have enough of the necessary cards. Or at least that was always my understanding. No, casual players have always wanted to do triple small set as long as they've known about drafting and a small set gets released, because they see it as chances to open ~cash card~ and then try to play for more packs. Too bad I couldn't ever convince anyone to play FUT FUT FUT. Now that was a great small set  .It's mostly that there are a lot of players who draft just for the sake of opening cards as opposed to going about it with the intent of playing limited as a tournament.
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Feb 12, 2014 18:24
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Zoness posted:No, casual players have always wanted to do triple small set as long as they've known about drafting and a small set gets released, because they see it as chances to open ~cash card~ and then try to play for more packs. Ah, fair enough. I mean I guess if I had bought a box of BOTG I'd probably draft triple small just to get the extra value out of packs by drafting them.
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Feb 12, 2014 18:33
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We're not doing draft, just sealed deck... and maybe I should have been clearer in stating that I'm totally green to this game, so if doing a sealed deck play-date with only BotG is a bad idea then I'm totally open to that feedback. I'd love to know a little more about what makes it a bad idea though, is it just that there's not enough variety in the small sets? I'm happy to pick up some M14 or Theros boosters to supplement if that'd help. I'm sure we could all use a few more of those, we were just excited to play w/ the BotG cards. Based on the lack of feedback on building a constructed deck, I'll take it I'm being an idiot if I think I can build a standard or extended constructed deck on a budget? What's a good casual format I should work on building towards then? I've only got about 500 cards to pull from so far, most of those being Theros and M13.
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Feb 12, 2014 18:36
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My LGS normally runs drafts in the BTT format for FNM and stuff, but yesterday they were doing a special triple BNG single-elimination draft for $8, with an 8/4 prize split. The pods were filling up and firing off like crazy.
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Feb 12, 2014 18:38
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Zoness posted:It's mostly that there are a lot of players who draft just for the sake of opening cards as opposed to going about it with the intent of playing limited as a tournament. I can't help it if I enjoy laying down Pharika's Mender to grab a Gray Merchant for lethal next turn.
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Feb 12, 2014 18:47
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MMD3 posted:We're not doing draft, just sealed deck... and maybe I should have been clearer in stating that I'm totally green to this game, so if doing a sealed deck play-date with only BotG is a bad idea then I'm totally open to that feedback. I'd love to know a little more about what makes it a bad idea though, is it just that there's not enough variety in the small sets? I'm happy to pick up some M14 or Theros boosters to supplement if that'd help. I'm sure we could all use a few more of those, we were just excited to play w/ the BotG cards. Honestly with as new as you are to Magic, you probably won't pick up on the downsides of going purely with small set packs. It's definitely worse than mixing packs, but it's also not as bad as some people are making it out to be. Essentially small sets like BotG are explicitly designed to play better in limited formats with their big set sibling. Some of this has to do with the big sets having more staple utility effects, but there are other interactions as well. If you want to get the "ideal" limited experience, I'd make sure you have as many packs of Theros as you have of BotG in your pool. If you want to stretch your budget, you could try doing 4 pack sealed with 1x Theros and 3x BotG (make 30 card decks instead of 40). It wouldn't be super balanced, but it'd be better than purely using BotG.
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Feb 12, 2014 18:53
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St0rmD posted:My LGS normally runs drafts in the BTT format for FNM and stuff, but yesterday they were doing a special triple BNG single-elimination draft for $8, with an 8/4 prize split. The pods were filling up and firing off like crazy. To be fair that kind of thing looks appealing solely based on prize structure. But in general, small sets aren't designed to be triple-drafted. Look at Dragon's Maze - it is severely lacking in solid curve fillers and has cards in every guild in a small set, there's just no way to build a deep strategy aside from 'grab as many firstblades as you can'. Cards like Beetleform Mage are great in singles but get worse in multiples, severely unbalancing the cardpool. The worst in my experience was when people at my FLGS back in college really wanted to do CON CON CON (Conflux). Conflux was a set that was designed around domain and 5-color but a lot of the quality multicolor cards (not necessarily domain or WUBRG) and good removal were in ALA. What's more is Conflux had probears (gold 2-drops that have protection from the color opposite to the two in their casting cost such as UW 2/2 with protection from red) at common, making the format really dull on the combat front. What's worse is when people insisted on ARB ARB ARB, a format that was solely about t1 borderpost into t2 shardblade or you were losing. In general the issue is that large sets tend to have the staples for the limited formats while small sets introduce cards to build off those synergies/strategies, and by drafting triple small set you're basically abandoning a huge part of the synergy designed in the format.
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Feb 12, 2014 18:55
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MMD3 posted:We're not doing draft, just sealed deck... and maybe I should have been clearer in stating that I'm totally green to this game, so if doing a sealed deck play-date with only BotG is a bad idea then I'm totally open to that feedback. I'd love to know a little more about what makes it a bad idea though, is it just that there's not enough variety in the small sets? I'm happy to pick up some M14 or Theros boosters to supplement if that'd help. I'm sure we could all use a few more of those, we were just excited to play w/ the BotG cards. Personally, a pack apiece of M14 + Theros + BotG sounds like a good mix to add to a Premade deck. quote:Based on the lack of feedback on building a constructed deck, I'll take it I'm being an idiot if I think I can build a standard or extended constructed deck on a budget? What's a good casual format I should work on building towards then? I've only got about 500 cards to pull from so far, most of those being Theros and M13. Before I say anything else, I just want to clarify something: Extended as you and I know it is largely dead and has been replaced with Modern, which is basically Type 1/Legacy in that it's an 'eternal' format (cards don't rotate out with sets like Standard/Extended) but it starts from Mirrodin block-onward rather than, well, Alpha.  There are a number of cheap but effective decks (like Restore Balance) or variants of decks (like Living End) in Modern.As for Standard, Red Deck Wins is always viable, though the best version at the moment is probably Mono-Red Devotion, which plays like a mono-red sligh/aggro deck but likes having permanents out to increase devotion so as to make stuff like Nykthos and Fanatic of Mogis that much more effective. The most expensive cards in the deck (Boros Reckoner and Stormbreath Dragon) can be replaced with cheap options like Archetype of Aggression and...I don't know, some other big dragon? Maybe the one from m14?  Another cheap option the goons and I have been working on for a few months now is MURDERGOATS.dec (you'll notice my avatar, as of this post, references to it and actually links to my TappedOut page for the deck; another piece of advice: use TappedOut), where even the most 'expensive' version of the deck can be assembled for less than $100, which is a steal compared to the Planeswalker-laden control decks it tends to tear apart.Outside of Standard and Modern, other options include Pauper, where you are only allowed to use commons/cards that were at one point printed at common (which allows for some very interesting brews ranging from burn to tribal to control to combo, et cetera).
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Feb 12, 2014 18:59
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Extended isn't largely dead. It is dead. They retired it when M14 came out or maybe THS.
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Feb 12, 2014 19:11
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bhsman posted:Personally, a pack apiece of M14 + Theros + BotG sounds like a good mix to add to a Premade deck. You can probably get away with using the Forgestoker Dragon as a viable "dragon". It isn't "great", but getting the foils people trade in after buying the intro decks should be as cheap as $3-4 each. Heck you can PROBABLY start out by just buying an intro deck to start into Standard, and build from that. You pick a color you like, play with the intro deck, replace/upgrade a few things, and before you know it you have a haflway decent deck. As far as a budget goes the intro decks are like $15 and the few upgrades you make to start playing and making sure you enjoy this would probably run you $25-30. If that goes well and you want to dump more into the hobby then you can buy some of the more "money" cards to really strengthen the deck.
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Feb 12, 2014 19:15
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I've been playing murdergoats on MODO and it's awesome and fun as hell.
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Feb 12, 2014 19:26
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I think the BotG event deck is a good place to start, actually. Swap out some of the chaff for some burn, $2 rares, and madcap skills and you get rakdos aggro, or add in Grey Merchants to play a slightly longer game. Edit: that being said, MURDERGOATS really is this forum's pet deck. People will talk about their builds all day round these parts. Boxman fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 19:31
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Rakdos aggro is also really good and you could probably build a budget version for like $40.
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Feb 12, 2014 19:41
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Boxman posted:Edit: that being said, MURDERGOATS really is this forum's pet deck. People will talk about their builds all day round these parts. MURDERGOATS and Breakfast Burrito.
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Feb 12, 2014 19:45
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Death Bot posted:Rakdos aggro is also really good and you could probably build a budget version for like $40. I was at an FNM last night (TNM?) and Rakdos Aggro folds HARD to RG Monsters, Mono U with a Frostburn out, and Mono Black. Poor guy got matched up against each one in all 4 rounds and just suffered all night long. The only game he won was against Mono U when they didn't find a Frostburn.
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Feb 12, 2014 19:50
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Boxman posted:I think the BotG event deck is a good place to start, actually. Swap out some of the chaff for some burn, $2 rares, and madcap skills and you get rakdos aggro, or add in Grey Merchants to play a slightly longer game. How is MURDERGOATS in this new standard format now that drown in sorrow and midrange decks are going to be much more common? I am really worried about Xenagos and the ability to give trample to all the fatties to rush past all the 1/1 chumpers. Has anyone thought of using the 1RR red archetype as a sideboard option against GR? It could be used to avoid all the trample damage, provide devotion for purphoros and help him trample through potential blockers. Samael fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 19:53
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Zoness posted:No, casual players have always wanted to do triple small set as long as they've known about drafting and a small set gets released, because they see it as chances to open ~cash card~ and then try to play for more packs. I'm rather impartial to New Phyrexia x3. But then that's probably because somehow I managed to draft freaking eleven Geth's Verdicts and win with absolute ease. Yeah, over a fourth of my deck.
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Feb 12, 2014 19:56
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Ramos posted:I'm rather impartial to New Phyrexia x3. But then that's probably because somehow I managed to draft freaking eleven Geth's Verdicts and win with absolute ease. If you think drafting 10+ copies of a card is awesome you should have played CSP CSP CSP. 10 Surging Dementia 14 Surging Sentinel.dek vs 14 Sound the Call 10 Aurochs.dek
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Feb 12, 2014 19:58
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Samael posted:How is MURDERGOATS in this new standard format now that drown in sorrow and midrange decks are going to be much more common? I am really worried about Xenagos and the ability to give trample to all the fatties to rush past all the 1/1 chumpers. Has anyone thought of using the 1RR red archetype as a sideboard option against GR? It could be used to avoid all the trample damage, provide devotion for purphoros and help him trample through potential blockers. I think bhsman said he went 3-2 and I went 4-1 last week. My only loss was against a full red aggro deck. Things just happened too fast for me to shut them down, but the few little changes he made from last week to this week are what I will change as well...add another Mizzium Mortar and have a couple Drown in Sorrow available. In the early game when Red drops those 2/2 creatures that you can clear 2-3 before you start pumping out tokens it is really nice to have a Drown in Sorrow to level the field a bit and kill their ramp Burning Trees. OssiansFolly fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 19:58
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Do people use software or a website or anything to make decks?
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Feb 12, 2014 20:01
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Balon posted:I was at an FNM last night (TNM?) and Rakdos Aggro folds HARD to RG Monsters, Mono U with a Frostburn out, and Mono Black. Poor guy got matched up against each one in all 4 rounds and just suffered all night long. The only game he won was against Mono U when they didn't find a Frostburn. Really? I piloted Rakdos Aggro last week, got matched up against mono green Monsters and I just dismantled it. Despite multiple Caryatids, Arbor Colossi and Kalonian Hydras, I was still able to push enough damage through. Frostburn could be a problem, but Doom Blade and Lightning Strike can deal with it pretty easily. Monoblack is probably the biggest hurdle, because Mogis's Marauder gets turned off.
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Feb 12, 2014 20:01
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PRADA SLUT posted:Do people use software or a website or anything to make decks? Typically I use TappedOut.net which is currently down...for whatever reason its been that way all day. I think a good chunk of us make decks that way because you can do it as a list which is easy and then on the right push the button to buy the deck and it prefills the cards into TCGplayer.com to buy them all really easy.
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Feb 12, 2014 20:09
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PRADA SLUT posted:Do people use software or a website or anything to make decks? I use Tappedout or MTGO w/ quantity set to 0 to make decks.
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Feb 12, 2014 20:16
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Balon posted:I was at an FNM last night (TNM?) and Rakdos Aggro folds HARD to RG Monsters, Mono U with a Frostburn out, and Mono Black. Poor guy got matched up against each one in all 4 rounds and just suffered all night long. The only game he won was against Mono U when they didn't find a Frostburn.
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Feb 12, 2014 20:17
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PRADA SLUT posted:Do people use software or a website or anything to make decks? I use Deckstats, mostly because it exports BBcode for easy posting in the deck building thread. edit: me spel gud Cactrot fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 20:26
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What a Judas posted:I've been playing murdergoats on MODO and it's awesome and fun as hell. Heckums yes.  Boxman posted:Edit: that being said, MURDERGOATS really is this forum's pet deck. People will talk about their builds all day round these parts. Vomax posted:MURDERGOATS and Breakfast Burrito. And for the same reasons: cheap to build and wins by unconventional means - milling yourself completely with Breakfast Burrito and flaming goat tokens with MURDERGOATS.dec. Death Bot posted:Rakdos aggro is also really good and you could probably build a budget version for like $40. Balon posted:I was at an FNM last night (TNM?) and Rakdos Aggro folds HARD to RG Monsters, Mono U with a Frostburn out, and Mono Black. Poor guy got matched up against each one in all 4 rounds and just suffered all night long. The only game he won was against Mono U when they didn't find a Frostburn. Yeah, Rakdos Aggro can be really, really cheap but you're going to have to invest in the Dreadbore/Mortars/Downfall trio if you find that Doom Blade and Exava aren't enough. Same with MURDERGOATS.dec. Samael posted:How is MURDERGOATS in this new standard format now that drown in sorrow and midrange decks are going to be much more common? I am really worried about Xenagos and the ability to give trample to all the fatties to rush past all the 1/1 chumpers. Has anyone thought of using the 1RR red archetype as a sideboard option against GR? It could be used to avoid all the trample damage, provide devotion for purphoros and help him trample through potential blockers. The deck actually fares pretty well with Drown and, to an extent, Bile Blight in the format. Super-fast aggro decks (especially those that utilize Madcap Skills and FIENDSLAYER PALADIN   ) were a real pain to deal with, so Drown discouraging those decks from being played is a win (as is the fact that the deck can use it ). This is all without mentioning that neither Drown nor Anger can kill Akroan Horse outright or destroy Trading Post (nor can Chained to the Rocks nor Mizzium Mortars ).The funny thing is, MURDERGOATS.dec does a lot better against slower decks since it is also a Midrange/Control deck of sorts and prefers a slower game, and less creatures to deal with overall means you don't have to be so choosy over when to use removal and when to wait for a more viable target to drop. An example is having to put up with an early Rakdos Cackler -> Ash Zealot so you can kill their Stormbreath later. As for Trample, Archetype is one option, another (that I am using currently) is to just flood the opponent with removal. It's definitely a problem, though; this deck would kill for a reprint of Damnation/some sort of sweeper that wasn't toughness- or damage-based. OssiansFolly posted:I think bhsman said he went 3-2 and I went 4-1 last week. My only loss was against a full red aggro deck. Things just happened too fast for me to shut them down, but the few little changes he made from last week to this week are what I will change as well...add another Mizzium Mortar and have a couple Drown in Sorrow available. In the early game when Red drops those 2/2 creatures that you can clear 2-3 before you start pumping out tokens it is really nice to have a Drown in Sorrow to level the field a bit and kill their ramp Burning Trees. To clarify, I went 3-2 without access to Drown or Mizzium Mortars, and the first loss in particular took a combination of me being dumb ("Pithing Needles only works on Planeswalkers and not stuff like Aetherling, right??"  ) and never drawing a goddamn Slaughter Games all game.  I don't know if the deck can really hit that upper echelon of Tier 1 decks (at least not without a third way to reliably exploit tokens for damage - Purphoros and Tymaret are nice, but it needs...something. A reprint of Grave Pact?), but if nothing else the deck is fun as hell, likes to grind Control decks under it's collective boots/hooves, and a good chunk of it will survive the eventual RtR rotation. PRADA SLUT posted:Do people use software or a website or anything to make decks? TappedOut.com for when I know what I'm building, MTGDeckBuilder.com when I want to visualize a list (ie, see card images to give me a physical idea of what I'm missing/need to cut).
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Feb 12, 2014 20:34
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Cactrot posted:I use Decktats, mostly because it exports BBcode for easy posting in the deck building thread. I'm a fan of Decktats because they put the ink in Inkmoth Nexus.
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Feb 12, 2014 20:34
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bhsman posted:Yeah, Rakdos Aggro can be really, really cheap but you're going to have to invest in the Dreadbore/Mortars/Downfall trio if you find that Doom Blade and Exava aren't enough. Same with MURDERGOATS.dec. I put together Rakdos Humanggro and I just can't understand Exava's role. She's a 4/4 Haster for 4, sure, but is that enough? I keep coming back to Cryptborn Horror as an alternative, because dropping him on 4 and also firing off a Thoughtseize to take their board-wipe or big green dude seems good. What am I missing about her? That she makes future Rakdos Cacklers into Goblin Guides? I thought she was the top of the curve.
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Feb 12, 2014 20:44
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Tharizdun posted:I put together Rakdos Humanggro and I just can't understand Exava's role. She's a 4/4 Haster for 4, sure, but is that enough? I keep coming back to Cryptborn Horror as an alternative, because dropping him on 4 and also firing off a Thoughtseize to take their board-wipe or big green dude seems good. haste, and a more reliable 4/4 E: What I mean is, yes haste and first strike is enough. Bread Set Jettison fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 20:47
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bhsman posted:I don't know if the deck can really hit that upper echelon of Tier 1 decks (at least not without a third way to reliably exploit tokens for damage - Purphoros and Tymaret are nice, but it needs...something. A reprint of Grave Pact R/W variant. Name? Eidolon of Countless Goats (Big Eidolons with Murder Investigation and Purphoros.)
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Feb 12, 2014 20:50
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Some Numbers posted:Really? I piloted Rakdos Aggro last week, got matched up against mono green Monsters and I just dismantled it. Despite multiple Caryatids, Arbor Colossi and Kalonian Hydras, I was still able to push enough damage through. In my experience, Rakdos Aggro destroys mono black. Side out the Marauders for thoughtseizes and burn, and side out the doom blades for dark betrayals. Mono black is usually just too slow to deal with something that wins turn 4 or 5. I've never lost to mono black with it, though this was all pre Drown in Sorrow, which probably hurts the match up a bit. G/R is tough if they get their mana dudes out and drop a Polukranos turn 3. You can usually get in some damage in the first three turns because they are reluctant to block with their mana dudes. I usually side in thoughtseizes to get rid of big creatures and peak eruptions to destroy their lands. Destroying a stomping ground turn 3 can keep the stormbreaths away long enough to get that final damage in. Mogis's Marauders can also just steal this game out of nowhere. The toughest matchups I've had are White Weenie, Boros Burn, and anything running Blood Baron. Fish Of Doom fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 20:50
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So should I just give up on thoughts of a budget R/G monsters deck then? I was really liking my nessian wilds ravager, Messina asp, sedge scorpion, etc. but I guess I should branch out. It sounds like mono black devotion is really strong, is it worth building towards a budget deck in that? My friend just built a blue/white budget heroic (maybe cost $60?) that he thinks will rapeface so I suppose my current goal is to be able to hold my own when we finally play constructed.
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Feb 12, 2014 21:04
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I don't own any Thoughtseizes, but that sounds pretty accurate. My opponent actually did drop Polukranos on turn 3. I already had a Cackler and two Spike Jesters, so I untapped, played Mogis's Marauder and killed him.
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Feb 12, 2014 21:06
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AlternateNu posted:R/W variant. If TappedOut was up I could show you my working list of my W/R Angel Horse (?) White Horse (?) gently caress it I miss Tymaret Horse (?) Largely it's Assemble the Legion, Chained to the Rocks, Purphoros, Molten Birth, Young Pyromancer, Warleader's Helix, Magma Jet, Akroan Horse, Mizzium Mortars, Frostburn Weird, Pithing Needle and Brimaz. Edit: Oh yea and Barrage of Expandables... OssiansFolly fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 21:13
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MMD3 posted:rapeface Just don't. In terms of budget decks, it really depends on how competitive you want to be. Are you just going to be playing against your friend(s)? Do you want to compete at FNM? GPTs? PTQs? How much is your budget? These are all things that will influence how people answer you.
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Feb 12, 2014 21:14
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Tharizdun posted:I put together Rakdos Humanggro and I just can't understand Exava's role. She's a 4/4 Haster for 4, sure, but is that enough? I keep coming back to Cryptborn Horror as an alternative, because dropping him on 4 and also firing off a Thoughtseize to take their board-wipe or big green dude seems good. First strike. She's really hard to block profitably. Swings through Grey Merchant and Loxodon Smiter like it ain't no thing. Depends on your meta though. Against Polukranos or Boros Reckoner or something I'd rather just have more one-drops or burn.
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Feb 12, 2014 21:19
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Tharizdun posted:I put together Rakdos Humanggro and I just can't understand Exava's role. She's a 4/4 Haster for 4, sure, but is that enough? I keep coming back to Cryptborn Horror as an alternative, because dropping him on 4 and also firing off a Thoughtseize to take their board-wipe or big green dude seems good. Not just that, she's a Human, which adds to the usefulness of Xathrid Necromancer and the deck in general being resilient to UW/Esper board wipes.
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Feb 12, 2014 21:21
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bhsman posted:
As another possible way to take advantage of tokens, what are the thoughts on Sanguine Bond and Bubbling Cauldron. I just don't know what you would drop with it. But once they're on board, it's an 8 point life swing every token you sac. It's also late getting online. But just throwing that out there.
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Feb 12, 2014 21:24
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bhsman, have you ever thought of using Goblin Rally as a finisher? 3RR for 4 tokens in this deck could probably absolutely lethal late game with purphoros and pyromancer out, instant 10 damage to the face.
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Feb 12, 2014 21:31
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