|
Glad they included roguelike of the year Noxico on that list.
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2014 09:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 22:09 |
|
|
Agent Kool-Aid posted:I still find it weird to consider SA a 'large roguelike community' but then I remember that that's not a high bar to clear and it's kinda depressing. SA is in many ways the best single location to talk about roguelikes.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2014 09:59
|
|
|
Finally beat ToME4 and started playing Bionic Dues. I was kind of wary because of AVWW, but this is actually really good. It takes some elements from AI War and then builds a roguelike around them. I do wish there were a better way to identify terminals, though. You just have to walk up and hack it and hope that it's "restores all hacking points" or something and not "it loving explodes and destroys your science exo" or "all bots are hasted forever".
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2014 15:11
|
|
|
I found myself just not bothering with terminals (on Normal, anyway). I guess they're supposed to be the analogue of potions, but the benefits of a good one are never really that amazing, and you can't always control when you can use them.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2014 15:45
|
|
|
There's a lot of poo poo terminals, agreed. However, there's also "All bots in sensor range go loving berserk and start attacking all of their allies". In the lategame you can have a sensor range of 30+ so basically the entire map blows itself up without you having to do anything. It's great. Just activate the terminals while you're doing your final sweep of the level, so any bad effects don't stick around for long.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2014 16:50
|
|
|
Arcen's currently developing their newest game; after publishing it later this month and doing some post-release patchwork, they'll probably start the next Bionic Dues and AI War patches/expansions. I expect that terminals will be one of the first things that get their attention, since they are pretty un-fun to deal with.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2014 18:29
|
|
|
Now that I've played it a bit more, it's fun, but I don't think I can play it in long stretches the way I can ToME4. There just isn't enough variety - in missions, in map layout, in terrain aesthetics, in enemies, or in the abilities of your exos - so it gets very same-y. I also find myself spending more time between missions adjusting my exo loadouts than I do in the missions themselves; at the same time, few items let you do new things or enable new tactics, they just make you better at what you're already doing. Expansions adding more variation in enemy and mission types, and in what your exos can do, would be especially welcome.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2014 21:40
|
|
|
andrew smash posted:After fiddling with dredmor a bit I've decided that burglary totally trivializes most of the game. With a little planning you can rip off every shop essentially risk-free, plus you get to jimmy a random freebie out of every vending machine. Even though most of brax's stuff is total poo poo the ~5% or so that isn't makes your gear head and shoulders above what you'd otherwise be finding, in general. You can afford to be a little looser with your artifacts as a result which allows you to eat them for xp with Archaeology and you're gaining levels faster too. On top of all of that you're basically immune to traps and thus have a never ending supply of landmines or cube fodder. Burglary used to give infinite lockpicks which could be Skold'd to get every artifact from the statues. Archaeology used to be bugged so when you re-rolled an artifact (which you could do as many times as you wanted) it would add a small overall stat buff to the item. Dungeons at release was a buggy mess, but it was almost fun because of the stupid builds you could do. The game has some good concepts, but I really feel the execution is (still!) pretty sloppy. If a sequel is ever made, I'll jump on it though.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 20:10
|
|
|
The way I look at Dredmor is that it's a goofy game with a lot of room to try out stupid builds, and considering it's only $5 (or however much I paid for it when it was on sale) it's pretty easy to get my money's worth out of it. It's not a classic roguelike that I'll still be playing five years down the road (or, hell, six months after buying it), but I don't think every roguelike should strive to have that level of replayability.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2014 20:54
|
|
|
TooMuchAbstraction posted:The way I look at Dredmor is that it's a goofy game with a lot of room to try out stupid builds, and considering it's only $5 (or however much I paid for it when it was on sale) it's pretty easy to get my money's worth out of it. It's not a classic roguelike that I'll still be playing five years down the road (or, hell, six months after buying it), but I don't think every roguelike should strive to have that level of replayability. I was looking in the dredmor forums for info about some skill or other and found some guy who has been playing it since release and doesn't have a single permadeath-enabled win. How that works I don't know.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2014 03:31
|
|
|
My first Sword of the Stars: The Pit game has been put to an end by Raging Cyborg, Scrap Hulk and Protean (Medium) killing my level 22 marine on the 28th floor due to the complete lack of medical stations and medical supply drops since the 26th floor. Time to try out other classes. Edit: Lack <> Abundance. Thanks to my dad for pointing the mistake out. cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Feb 11, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2014 14:01
|
|
|
kalstrams posted:My first Sword of the Stars: The Pit game has been put to an end by Raging Cyborg, Scrap Hulk and Protean (Medium) killing my level 22 marine on the 28th floor due to the complete abundance of medical stations and medical supplies since the 26th floor. Time to try out other classes. Abundance?
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2014 14:17
|
|
|
my dad posted:Abundance? Welp, this is what happens when I try to write fancy.  Total lack was meant. Since I entered 26th floor I had to rely only on what my inventory had at that point.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2014 14:24
|
|
|
kalstrams posted:Welp, this is what happens when I try to write fancy. He just gorges himself on bandages and antibiotics until he chokes to death. Roguelikes!
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2014 17:55
|
|
|
kalstrams posted:My first Sword of the Stars: The Pit game has been put to an end by Raging Cyborg, Scrap Hulk and Protean (Medium) killing my level 22 marine on the 28th floor due to the complete lack of medical stations and medical supply drops since the 26th floor. Time to try out other classes. I've been playing this too, I was on lvl 16 with my Scout when my armor broke. Fortunately I had lots of Hero Sandwiches so I could fully rest after each room. Total pain in the rear end though. I really like the Scout, feels like the most balanced class.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2014 19:34
|
|
|
andrew smash posted:I was looking in the dredmor forums for info about some skill or other and found some guy who has been playing it since release and doesn't have a single permadeath-enabled win. How that works I don't know. I've played Dredmor on and off for years and never won. Mostly because I get too bored to continue whenever I get past floor 4 or so.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2014 19:50
|
|
|
BobMcFartsens posted:I've been playing this too, I was on lvl 16 with my Scout when my armor broke. Fortunately I had lots of Hero Sandwiches so I could fully rest after each room. Total pain in the rear end though. I really like the Scout, feels like the most balanced class. They game feels balanced in general. Only, for some reason, my inventory was constantly full since floor 20 or so. It drives me mad when I have to throw something useful out because something more useful drops.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2014 19:57
|
|
|
Tollymain posted:I've played Dredmor on and off for years and never won. Mostly because I get too bored to continue whenever I get past floor 4 or so. That's fair. The game drags like crazy. I can only play it on no time to grind and even then its pace is barely tolerable.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2014 20:31
|
|
|
Which is tragic because it has one of the most fun character creation systems in a roguelike IMHO.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2014 22:44
|
|
|
I keep asking if any other games have a similar character creation/building mechanic and as far as I can tell there aren't any 
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2014 23:57
|
|
|
Tollymain posted:I keep asking if any other games have a similar character creation/building mechanic and as far as I can tell there aren't any ToME4 has the unlockable "Adventurer" class, which is basically "pick any seven skill trees from any classes in the game". It's a postgame loving-around class, though, which means very little effort has gone into balancing the skill trees against each other.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 00:31
|
|
|
The thing is, most roguelikes out there are going to be about adapting your character and their abilities to the environment as the game progresses. Eventually you're going to want to change your god to The Shining One in Crawl to face some areas, eventually you're going to want to get Telepathy in Nethack, eventually you're going to want the Healing skill in Adom, etc. The biggest challenges in these games are generally built around giving you a checklist of things you need to be able to do, and giving you paths by which you can achieve those powers or defenses. But since Dredmor relegates almost all of the ways the player interacts with the environment to player-chosen skills - skillsets that can never be changed or added to once inside the game - then every challenge that is put in the player's path has to be one that they can defeat with a reasonably selected set of those skills. The variety of gameplay that the monsters, traps, level design and puzzles can provide becomes severely restricted, unless the developer intends for some of these player-chosen skills to be mandatory to proceed, which wouldn't be a very fun mechanic. In a genre where one of the primary focuses in gameplay is to have increased interactivity between the player and his environment, Dredmor's character creation system comes up short in being adaptable to any other game, and ended up hamstringing the possibilities that the game itself could provide.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 00:47
|
|
|
That very eloquently explains to me why I get bored with Dredmor so easily.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 03:34
|
|
|
So, the 7DRL for this year is coming in about a month. (The week of March 8th to March 16th) Time to start coming up with a better plan than last year!
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 03:39
|
|
|
Discussion of whether or not it counts a roguelike aside, Risk of Rain is 40% off right now on Steam.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 03:57
|
|
|
MrBims posted:The thing is, most roguelikes out there are going to be about adapting your character and their abilities to the environment as the game progresses. Eventually you're going to want to change your god to The Shining One in Crawl to face some areas, eventually you're going to want to get Telepathy in Nethack, eventually you're going to want the Healing skill in Adom, etc. The biggest challenges in these games are generally built around giving you a checklist of things you need to be able to do, and giving you paths by which you can achieve those powers or defenses. So what you're saying is either you inevitably have to choose one of a handful of optimal things multiple times throughout the game, resulting in little character variety OR you have to make everything else bland and samey. Yes, surely there is no other answer to this conundrum.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 06:32
|
|
|
Tollymain posted:So what you're saying is either you inevitably have to choose one of a handful of optimal things multiple times throughout the game, resulting in little character variety OR you have to make everything else bland and samey. Uh... yes? Come on, don't do the trashy sarcasm poo poo. This is the reason why everyone complains that Dredmor feels like it has too much busy work even when played at max speed, and it doesn't have enough meaningful decision making. You don't even have to dig into Dredmor's files to see that the enemies tend to have only superficial differences in stats - because the game is made to be completed by most kinds of characters, with their maximum range of available moves statically determined at the start of the game and not allowing for any change. You don't have any opportunity to grow because you know from the start all that you are going to be capable of. That isn't rewarding for the player, and it is limiting for the designer. In Crawl I can play a melee fighter character and then switch gears completely when I find a particularly awesome spell book early on. In Binding of Isaac I can decide to spend all my money on an item that combines with one I already have to make a unique effect powerful enough to propel me to The Chest. In Spelunky I might find that I'm not getting anywhere near as many bombs as I might like and have to carry around the Mattock instead of a better weapon. In Dredmor I can play the same optimally-generated character many times and come out of the game with the exact same experience as many times.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 06:59
|
|
|
You're missing the point. The main thrust of my post is that I think it's possible to make a good game with a similar character-building mechanic. Also that I don't like games pretty much loving requiring specific things to continue unless you're exceedingly skilled or lucky, it's only marginally less unfun than everything being the same. I know where Dredmor's weaknesses are, I was just talking about being unable to complete the game out of boredom. I also know where Crawl's weaknesses are. I've played it for years. Spelunky and TBoI are bad examples, because you have no control over what you start with in Spelunky and very little control over what you find in both. Crawl at least has the advantage of throwing so much stuff at you that the RNG not giving you something useful for your build isn't too huge a possibility. But basically, my main point is that thinking that Dredmor's weaknesses stem from its most interesting mechanic seems like an rear end-backwards thought to me.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 07:40
|
|
|
I bought Dredmor and then put off playing it until they fixed all the crash bugs and save corruption. Except they kinda never did and now they're working on a different game.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 08:47
|
|
|
TOOT BOOT posted:I bought Dredmor and then put off playing it until they fixed all the crash bugs and save corruption. Oh weird. I actually haven't encountered anything like that lately.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 09:08
|
|
|
TOOT BOOT posted:I bought Dredmor and then put off playing it until they fixed all the crash bugs and save corruption. Wasn't Dredmor's entire development history pretty wildly spotty? I don't know the whole story, but I swear I've seen a couple posts or discussions about it, probably in a previous iteration of this thread. Either way, I fire up that game once every couple of months and then get bored by the time I get to the fifth floor or so. And I forget that crafting is garbage. And everything else. Dredmor. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 09:12
|
|
|
Has anyone been following the development of Sunless Sea? It is a proper game from the creators of the browser game Fallen London and has a successful kickstarter (with enough to reach the stretch goal of a submarine DLC):quote:
You've got roguelike elements such as the map being different every time, having to manage supplies and fuel for your ship as well as terror and hunger for your crew, etc. As well as strong (random) story focus with events and crew having different interactions. etc. FairyNuff fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Feb 12, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 12:58
|
|
|
The character creation in dredmor is not an interesting mechanic, it's clicking seven times. The skills aren't even trees, just linear improvements. Really the strongest things the game has going for it are thinking of combinations of skills which will allow you to complete the game, and the fact that it is kind of funny.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 15:34
|
|
|
If I recall correctly, SAngband (a.k.a. "Skills Angband") has a skill system that is vaguely similar to Dredmor's. That is, there's a bunch of different skills, but the cost to improve a given skill depends in part on how many skills you have invested in. So you can either go broad and shallow or narrow and deep. It being an Angband game, of course most of your options for advancement will require you to invest in some means of killing things and some way of surviving being attacked, but I believe there's a reasonably wide range of exploration in terms of what kinds of builds you can go for. It's also balls-hard though.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 18:04
|
|
|
SAngband is better thought of as being an ancient forerunner to Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup's skill system---especially the Crawl of lately. It is a drat shame that variant is falling further into the shadows as it was so jam-packed and had a mind-boggling number of possibilities for builds and whatnot---a modern crack at it that cuts down on the damnable "1% granularity" effect that would be ace. Otherwise, skill systems kind of went out of phase outside of ADOM, Portralis, and everything attached to ToME 2(balance is crazy and hard, and those are all varying degrees of hilariously broken in various ways...though ADOM of late is obviously addressing things)---Dredmor's was the first in a good while to get any sort of traction outside of good old Dungeonmans, even if suspiciously less in emulation. Honestly, I always reckoned it was a matter of time until ToME 4 Addon folks started fashioning ports of them as that's the most ready-made container for the further plying the lot of it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2014 00:18
|
|
|
I haven't the faintest idea if it's any drat good, but this got my attention: an action "roguelike" in which you're a robot who consumes office furniture. Roguelike in that maps are random and death is permenant. It is also a stealth game. It is called Not the Robots and is on Indie Royale at the moment with several other games: http://www.indieroyale.com/ The look is kinda beta-ish to me, but how many stealth action roguelikes are there?
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2014 04:54
|
|
|
So, I tried Adventuring Company and Dice Heroes today. Adventuring Company was made in Unity using the Oryx tileset (not that one, the new one he made) and-- right from the get-go I notice that the application isn't named correctly under the icon. Not a good sign. Gameplay is basically the same as Dungelot, except you have a party of four characters that you can freely switch between that have their own stats and special abilities. This makes the game a little more player-decision based than Dungelot, but after a couple of games it became clear that Adventuring Company is in dire need of some sort of balancing. Polish in general would be good and if the developer puts some time into it, this could be quite a good game, but as it is Adventuring Company feels thrown together and not quite over the hurdle of simply copying a popular game. Dice Heroes starts with an interesting mechanic, but the tutorial is way too long and building up your characters to where the gameplay no longer becomes entirely RNG dependent is similarly a slog. The presentation could be punched up a bit by not making the characters all cubes. I get it, "Dice" Heroes, but the mechanic is interesting enough without having to beat the users over the head by making everything look like dull cubes. Well, maybe not everything. Perhaps dice with sides other than six show up later? I haven't gotten that far. I haven't seen a lot of Roguelike-ness in it, either. Unless the stage layouts are somewhat randomized? Even then, it's easily more just a strategy game. Still, it's fun enough I feel like I'll sink a bit more time into it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2014 06:52
|
|
|
Does anyone else play Sword of the Stars: The Pit regularly (with both expansions)? Been playing it lately, and while I like it I some times run into some really bizarre poo poo that not even the wiki has a lot about, like the Cyborg Hiver Queen - I didn't find even a mention of it in the wiki. I did kill it, but I guess maybe I could have used some skill on it if I'd walked up to it? It was gigantic and unmobile so maybe I could have booby trapped it or something since it looked like a Hiver spawn point, but I didn't feel like running into its super damaging laser blasts any more than I had to. The AI lab is another mystery, ran into it once and didn't really know what to do with it - it didn't look like a normal lab so maybe you could do something special with it? Or maybe it would just kill me if I'd used it with my luck. Exploring the Pit really feels like exploring since so far I've always ran into something new on every run, new enemies, new environments, new items or just new hazards, and I always keep underestimating the enemies after receiving some super powerful weapon - like the Starlance I got on my last Morrigi run that one shot almost every single enemy. Then a robot shot a laser into me that made me go unconscious and I died horribly.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2014 15:45
|
|
|
So, new Steam tag system has tag "Rogue-like". I opened and saw bunch of mainstream roguelikes. And AC4 DLC. And then I found this tag.  Edit: Wording. cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Feb 13, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2014 15:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 22:09 |
|
|
I keep having trouble with Shadows and other invisible type monsters as I get further in Sil...any tips on how to deal with them? It seems like if you don't find a helm of true site or a spiffy lantern that shows invisible monsters, you're pretty much completely hosed
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2014 17:12
|
|
