|
Mr.Hotkeys posted:Though I don't know why it takes this much effort to drill "everything seems pretty nebulous so just loving wait and see" into your heads as this so I'm gonna conclude you've all made up your minds and this whole thing is pointless. Go back to your cool dogpile I guess. I don't doubt he's planning on adding new stuff, but you're insisting blindly that those additions are going to make these detrimental changes somehow totally the opposite of what they obviously are. You're actually suggesting he's going to throw in a whole mechanic that turns the game so upside down that "we made this stuff rarer, less useful, and harder to get without following our exact steps" is going to actually implement more freedom and less grind, and until he DOESN'T, we're not allowed to judge, and that no inference from past changes is allowed.
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 23:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 23:46 |
|
|
SirSamVimes posted:Stopping a boss from being cheesed is bullshit? When it's a personal choice to do it? ...Yeah?
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 23:32
|
|
|
To be fair, he's not making everything less useful. But he's nerfing things everyone uses to buff things no one uses, which is by definition a lost cause because we care a whole lot more about nerfs to the awesome stuff that's been glued to our hotbar since we got it than about buffs to crap we never even bothered to try out because it was so obviously inferior.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 23:37
|
|
|
Can't you still mod the game?
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2014 23:57
|
|
|
I've never been able to beat Plantera or anything beyond that without cheating (out of game cheating, editing in items or the like rather than just cheesy tactics), and while I could probably have managed to do it if I put a lot of time and effort and consumables into the process it still was enough of a tedious roadblock that it made me give up on the game. And now the early hardmode is nerfed further to make it even harder!! This just seems really... counterproductive to new folks or people with poor reflexes or the like, and it just seems like it's narrowing the game for no real benefit instead of adding more options or things to do. Even if there's nifty new endgame stuff added, how many people are going to see it if they have to smash their head against a wall to get there? 
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2014 00:15
|
|
|
Just fight Plantera in a hellevator and he's a pushover. The only times he'll hit you is when you reach one end of it and need to switch directions, and you've always got a clear shot for ranged weapons of all sorts. Just don't go too high or too low!
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2014 00:24
|
|
|
SirSamVimes posted:Stopping a boss from being cheesed is bullshit? They didn't stop it though, they just changed the way you cheese it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2014 02:11
|
|
|
I can't help but feel that by nature any boss in this game is going to be either easily cheesed or complete bullshit. Just by the fact that the arena in which you fight the boss in is entirely decided upon by you means you can very easily trivialize most of your average boss fight designs. A good example of this is the old golem boss. I was a very traditional boss: completely earthbound and mostly couldn't move or shoot through obstacles. As such the boss could be made piss easy by building a wall around it leaving a tiny hole for you to shoot through. Unfortunately, Red isn't clever enough to deal with this in a creative way that makes the boss difficult while also making it interesting and fun, so he just makes all of the golem's shots penetrate walls and increases its damage, health, and defense, turning the boss into yet another slog where you run back and forth trying to minimize the amount of damage you have to tank because the golem has pinpoint accuracy and its shots move too fast to reliably dodge, just like every loving thing that shoots at you because Red apparently expects all his players to have the reaction time of a loving hummingbird. Actually, I lied before about every boss being easycheese/a slog. There's two I kind of like. The first is the Eye of Cthulu, which has a simple movement pattern that gives you enough time to dodge (most of the time) while still keeping on the heat. The other one I like is the Wall of Flesh. Its lasers are blocked by walls, yes, but its constant forward movement means that you can't just hide behind cover in one place forever plinking away at it. Eventually you're going to have to come out into the open and risk being shot at to keep the boss from catching up to you. It still has problems, though. The lasers move so fast that if you aren't behind something you will be hit which wouldn't be so bad if not for the boss firing near constantly later in the fight. But in spite of those issues these two are still the closest the game comes, in my opinion, to a good boss.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2014 07:04
|
|
|
I never really considered that reasoning before, but you really hit on something. I feel like most of the early bosses are way more fun than the later bosses, because the later bosses just become a total clusterfuck. There's too many moving parts, too many blindingly-fast projectiles, and too many trajectories to keep track of (to say nothing of the Pumpkin/Frost Moons, which are just catastrophically terrible). Cthulhu's Eye has a pattern that requires skill to avoid, and equipment will help, but in the end the fight, early on, is more about your ability to learn his pattern, stick to it, and not get greedy with your hits. The Worm/Brain are both somewhat similar: decent armor and weapons go a long way, and mobility equipment/grapples can help a lot, but you also have to manage how you fight, focus on defense, etc. Even Skeletron, I feel, is the same way. If you're not totally overequipped for his fight, you have to watch his hands a lot, be ready for his spin, and generally just keep an eye on his pattern while figuring out when and how to get hits in. The fights are all relatively strategic and more rewarding. In comparison, hardmode fights are basically just a mess of lasers, flames, and other projectiles flying around while you unload endlessly with your best weapon and zip around the boss in circles hoping not to be hit. It's way more about equipment and mobility and less about strategy and ability.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2014 10:32
|
|
|
I don't agree with a lot of the nerfs but the Golem buff made sense to me. If you're fighting him, you've beaten Plantera, and Plantera was way more difficult than golem even when you weren't cheesing him. And it was way too easy to cheese him completely by accident depending on the terrain of the altar room.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2014 10:43
|
|
|
Vib Rib posted:In comparison, hardmode fights are basically just a mess of lasers, flames, and other projectiles flying around while you unload endlessly with your best weapon and zip around the boss in circles hoping not to be hit. It's way more about equipment and mobility and less about strategy and ability. That's kind of a problem with hardmode in general - it's incredibly gear-dependent. Most of what you're fighting isn't tough because it requires more skill to beat, it's tough because it'll kill you in two hits if you aren't wearing endgame armor and it'll take thirty hits to kill if you aren't using endgame weapons. It especially sticks out against the mechanical bosses, where even if you're the best dodger in the world, the bosses will all just despawn at dawn if you didn't go out and get a weapon with the damage output to kill them before dawn. Though I actually had that issue vs Eye of Cthulhu too, where I could survive against him but couldn't deal enough damage to kill him. Then I crafted a Ruby Staff and it destroyed Eye of Cthulhu, every other pre-hardmode boss, and carried me well into Hardmode before I had to start looking for a new ranged weapon.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2014 10:51
|
|
|
I know we've kind of moved on from this initial post, but since I was quoted as the example of  .txt:Mr.Hotkeys posted:I mean poo poo like this. You'll remember what? That you bought a fun game for like ten bucks that was more than tripled for free over the next few years and then a patch came out that changed some things? Yeah, I'll remember when Terraria 2 is announced that Terraria had a bunch of free poo poo added to it that was changed a little bit (and then maybe changed even again when the first change was declared too much in the other direction, something which could entirely happen, or left alone if it turns out the other stuff added makes up for it). I can't speak for everyone in this thread, but when most of us are saying "gently caress Terraria, I'm only playing Starbound now", we're saying "I've already bought Starbound but I haven't fully embraced it", since I'd imagine this thread is pretty much Starbound's target audience. I personally haven't really gotten into Starbound or played Terraria since about the Pumpkin Moon patch and the launch of the Starbound beta, but when my itch for this type of game acts up again, I'll definitely be launching Starbound, not Terraria. Red has my ten bucks. I've also gotten about 300 hours out of Terraria. I'm not trying to say "man, I wish I'd never bought Terraria", but except for the major content patches (1.1 and 1.2), every patch has been a combination of bug fixes and an extremely high nerf:buff ratio. I don't regret buying Terraria for myself or the four or five copies I've gifted out during Steam sales, but at the same time I can't honestly recommend this game anymore between Starbound existing (so Terraria's not as unique of a game) and the way that the developer is approaching the difficulty curve of the game. I think there's a line somewhere between "Plantera shouldn't be cheesed from the surface" and "Frost Armor is only available after you've beaten a hardmode boss and probably have roughly comparable armor from ores" and most of these tweaks fall on the wrong side of the line. Sequence breaking is fun sometimes when it's not immediately obvious (again, whose first thought for farming souls would be moving half a meteor into the underworld?). The stock hardmode progression (ore->drill->better ore->better drill->best ore->best ore's gear) was boring when it came out in 1.1 and it's still boring now; being able to actually do things in hardmode without running around my old mineshafts with a pickaxe and mirror for a week first was a huge quality-of-life improvement that's a lot less feasible with the patch notes. If Red adds other items that kind of address this, then fine, we can discuss that. For now, all we have (at least posted ITT) are nerds for the player except for the key mold rate. And that's worrying from a game that currently has a pretty alright difficulty curve. With the hardmode dungeon, there's even still an area that's challenging for endgame players! I mean, I put 100 hours into Dungeon Defenders when it came out (and even have all the DLC now, thanks to the Humble Bundles) and loved the game until the absurd patching got to be too much, but there's no way I'm buying Dungeon Defenders 2 given the way that Trendy treats progression and difficulty. Red seems to have developed a similar attitude, and that's unfortunate. Cockblocktopus fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Feb 13, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2014 16:24
|
|
|
Sequence breaking is like this game's bread and butter, too. Most people I know have a full set of Jungle gear before they ever fight the Eater of Worlds/Brain of Cthulhu. Hell, one guy in the co-op game I'm part of had a full set before the Eye of Cthulhu showed up. I see a lot of people who sprint into the first room or two of the Dungeon real quick to grab some spells and items before the Guardians spawn as one of the first things they do in the game. It's just kinda weird to me that he tries to gate content of a sandbox game behind a linear tech tree. Like, if you don't want the player to be able to cheese a boss or have a piece of equipment before a certain event, then you probably shouldn't make a game where players can freely mold and shape the environment. Cheesing bosses by building special arenas is practically core gameplay.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2014 16:44
|
|
|
The one hardmode boss I liked fighting was Plantera, because you only need a big cave to fight him and wings to avoid his projectiles. Skeletron Prime and the Eyes are kind of the same fight because you only fight them running away from them constantly on the overworld and firing in their general direction. A skybridge or anything like that is wholly unnecessary but the battle is still pretty boring. The big worm is easy to cheese and if you fought him "properly" it's just a mess of lasers and basically having to damage race him because you're not gonna avoid all that crap.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2014 16:59
|
|
|
Is there even a way to fight the Destroyer "properly" without losing the loot? If you have to run all over the place it seems like it would be hard to keep track of how much health he had and therefore where his head needs to be when he bites it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2014 17:30
|
|
|
The loot glows, dig down and find it!
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2014 17:32
|
|
|
Apparently we'll find out exactly how these changes play out in an hour or so. I do hope there's some new stuff at least.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2014 23:55
|
|
|
1.2.3 Changelog: http://www.terrariaonline.com/threads/terraria-1-2-3.132539/
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 00:53
|
|
|
Spelunker no longer gives off light. This prevents ore from showing up on the map Spelunker now causes ore to be gold colored on the screen lol feed me all the ore. copper gold silver all of it I love to waste my time Verviticus fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Feb 14, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 00:55
|
|
|
Wouldn't you still be able to tell from the texture of some ores? EDIT: There are a lot of amazing convenience changes in that patch at least. Putting levers/switches on walls, ore stacking to 999, buckets stacking, ect. Except for this quote:Using Mana Potions now puts a debuff on the player that lowers magic damage based on the amount of time left. RatHat fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Feb 14, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 01:04
|
|
|
The bipolarness of those patch notes is patently hilarious. On the one hand, great QOL stuff like no wiring limits and higher ore stacks; on the other hand, nerfing poo poo like Spelunker potions and Mana potions. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 01:11
|
|
|
The patch seems to have rest my map data, that sucks kind of
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 01:12
|
|
|
RatHat posted:
Finally, I was wondering when he was going to get around to fixing the bug where you're able to fight bosses using magic. I had all this freedom of choice and it was making me really uncomfortable. Some of these changes make me really glad I'm past the tier progression part of the game and into the part where I build elaborate houses for all my villagers.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 01:16
|
|
|
Terraria 1.2 - Just Keep Digging Your Own Grave
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 01:21
|
|
|
Building in this game is downright painful. Maybe in a year or two he'll add something to make it less of a chore.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 01:24
|
|
|
Verviticus posted:Spelunker no longer gives off light. This prevents ore from showing up on the map Kly posted:Building in this game is downright painful. Maybe in a year or two he'll add something to make it less of a chore.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 01:25
|
|
|
On the plus side now that we can use dye on accessories, I have finally achieved my dream of being a Monarch Henchman e: Holy gently caress, gently caress this game quote:Nerfed Spectre Healing helmet. Hummingbirds fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Feb 14, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 01:26
|
|
|
The cosmetic accessory stuff is cool. some of them don't show up and a lot of them are like 3 pixels big, but you can have a balloon floating from your character now. Plus you can use the cosmetic slots to carry situational accessories. E: spelunker potions seem to still work the same way (ore glows through walls) except with a gold tint now. Makes it slightly harder to tell certain ores apart, but that was the case before with some of them. Maybe it used to make your character give off light? Cicadalek fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Feb 14, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 01:28
|
|
|
Ahahahah he still pushed the changes to make the game even more linear through, but at least he didn't totally gut the game with the full list of his balance ideas. Maybe Red actually listened to the negative feedback for once. Edit: Oh wait Clhorophyte is still rarer and grows slower and the Mushroom spear still can't be gotten until after you would ever want it. weeelp.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 01:33
|
|
|
legoman727 posted:Ahahahah he still pushed the changes to make the game even more linear through, but at least he didn't totally gut the game with the full list of his balance ideas. Maybe Red actually listened to the negative feedback for once. Ah, but you're not allowed to criticize it, the team "put a lot of effort" into gutting all the fun and convenience in the game. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 01:43
|
|
|
New melee armour from the golem, buffs to the ture exc and NE and Terra Blade, nerfs to casters and rangers (shroomite takes longer to get and nerfs to Chloro bullets?). Seems like Red wants more melee players, since it was pretty much useless before (except for shroom spear and north pole, which have both been nerfed).
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 01:43
|
|
|
Geez there are a lot of new cosmetic items. Red seems to be aiming for Piano Parity across different furniture sets, and I hope you like grandfather clocks because guess what there's like 7 now. Also a ....glass bathtub? There's a Living Loom item which lets you make livingwood themed stuff, but I can't figure out how to make it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 02:04
|
|
|
With no decent ranged or magic how the hell are you supposed to fight the bosses? It's absolutely not worth it to melee since you won't have the defense boosts from good armor anymore, since it's impossible to get said armor until you kill bosses you're going to need it for. This is the worst way to balance your game.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 02:07
|
|
|
Tyty posted:With no decent ranged or magic how the hell are you supposed to fight the bosses? * Fixed a bug where progression in single-player was possible.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 02:25
|
|
|
loving gently caress. The new melee armour requires like 5 golem kills for one set and a full turtle set, so one of the few good things about this patch is poo poo. Oh, and the Spectre healing nerf? 20% more mana used (enough that my 2-3 mana razorpine uses 6) and 40% less damage. Holy poo poo, that is terrible! Also, visible accesories makes you look really, really cluttered. E: gently caress it, I would like to point out that Terrari Viewer still works with everything pre Moon updates, so you can just use that to give yourself all the stuff you need if you don't feel like trying to progress normally anymore. Double edit: I guess if you want to beat bosses with magic now you need to throw down a bunch of star statues in your boss arena (if you can find them without cheating) since mana potions are crap now and mage shackles no longer synergise with spectre because it means you do gently caress all for damage. Ashsaber fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Feb 14, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 02:25
|
|
|
Ashsaber posted:Oh, and the Spectre healing nerf? 20% more mana used (enough that my 2-3 mana razorpine uses 6) and 40% less damage. Holy poo poo, that is terrible! Oh, but you see, the testers "spent weeks busting [their] rear end[es]" making sure it was a good adjustment.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 02:52
|
|
|
Is there a mod yet that reverses all of the unpopular nerfs but keeps the content additions and optimizations? It seems something that would not be terribly difficult for the people already making major gameplay mods, yet would be very popular.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 03:51
|
|
|
Glad I turned off autoupdate on Steam, because gently caress this.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 04:08
|
|
|
How to turn off Auto Update before turning steam on...
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 04:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 23:46 |
|
|
On the one hand, nerfs and linear enforcement.  On the other hand, I just came across a duck. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2014 04:46
|
|
