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The Wonder Weapon posted:I said that Herald of Torment and Spirit of the Labyrinth would both be under $1 at some point during Standard, and someone disagreed. I look forward to you quoting the post every few months to make sure we remember that you think that. Also to continue popping into this thread to shill your articles. And spirt and herald won't both be under a dollar during standard so in two years i will look forward to you eating your hat.
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Feb 14, 2014 20:27
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You should package up those sets of commons and uncommons into playsets and sell them on ebay or amazon. You can always make a deckbox profile for your rares and try to trade them on there. You'd be surprised what stuff people on there want to trade for. If anyone gives you poo poo for looking up prices during a trade, they are most likely trying to rip you off. Don't be deterred from trying to make a fair trade.
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Feb 14, 2014 20:29
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Mechanics question: I bile blight a 1/1 vanilla bestow cast as a creature that has another vanilla bestow attached to it cast as an aura. Both have the same name. Does only one die, or do both?
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Feb 14, 2014 20:32
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Only the one that was actually a creature at the time you cast Bile Blight. OTOH, I believe Detention Sphere would exile both.
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Feb 14, 2014 20:33
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weird vanilla posted:Where does that idea come from? Publishing Tournament Information is something only the Wizards can do and does so only in the interest of coverage, in this case a minor concession to the integrity of the tournament is done for the greater good. They can't stop people from observing, talking to their friends, or really completely lock down the information so they don't try to. Its a sensible common-sense approach but you're not allowed to go loving crazy with it. You can't hand your friend a pile of notes from your previous match right before he plays a dude that he then promptly shoves in his pocket and smiles like a turd because he's technically not bringing outside notes in!, you can't take them to twitter and be all like "ATT: EVERYONE WHO PLAYS THIS GUY" the DCI has no interest in stopping people from talking about games and getting a little advice but disseminating match notes is crossing a line and I as a Judge would immediately step in. Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Feb 14, 2014 |
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Feb 14, 2014 20:37
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I will always pull out my phone and price compare, even with friends. I dont want my friends to be taken advantage of unintentionally and I dont want people trying to trick me into a bad trade. As long as me and the person trading use the same resource to compare it shouldnt matter. Post those rares on here though for us to buy! And why does anyone think herald of torment or SotL are bad cards/going to be under $1? Im genuinely curious. Spirit already seems to have a demand in several formats and I think herald is severely underrated right now and will be more appreciated when nightveil specter rotates out. I could be wrong though.
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Feb 14, 2014 20:41
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Fingers McLongDong posted:
The spirit is very very similar to Thalia in its uses. It attacks the same types of decks along a similar axis with nearly the same restrictions in deckbuilding as Thalia has. And she has been played a lot, and still has never really been over $5 iirc. They will both be played forever, but the demand for them is so small compared to standard cards, and the supply is so large that they don't get expensive.
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Feb 14, 2014 20:44
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Zoness posted:I don't get this - I played plenty of UW - Esper matches that don't get close to time and do involve extensive Aetherling wars and proper play from both players. I guess I'm either more/less experienced than these guys that pilot the U/W/x lists to time. Every FNM has the inevitable U/W mirror in which three of us commentate like its a featured golf match. "And now Walser is playing his third scryland, he scrys it and does not like it. Mercual responds to Walser's turn ending by Revving for six. Again."
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Feb 14, 2014 20:54
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whydirt posted:Only the one that was actually a creature at the time you cast Bile Blight. OTOH, I believe Detention Sphere would exile both. Bile Blight's text: Target creature and all other creatures with the same name as that creature get -3/-3 until end of turn. The bestowed one wouldn't be a creature at the time the Bile Blight resolved, so it doesn't get the -3/-3. It'll become a creature after Bile Blight resolves and dodge the -3/-3 effect.
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Feb 14, 2014 20:54
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Stinky Pit posted:but disseminating match notes is crossing a line and I as a Judge would immediately step in. I'm just curious, which actual rule would you point to as grounds for stepping in, or is it just based on your interpretation of the spirit of what the DCI wants? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that tweeting what the contents of your opponent's hand were when you thoughtseized them on turn 1 is going to be the DCI's favorite thing ever but if this was actually a thing they intend to prohibit then surely they would have made a floor rule about it, no? And it's entirely possible, for all I know, that they have, which is why I'm asking you.
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Feb 14, 2014 20:54
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JerryLee posted:I'm just curious, which actual rule would you point to as grounds for stepping in, or is it just based on your interpretation of the spirit of what the DCI wants? Sportsmanship, for starters? (It's kind of an umbrella really). Disseminating an opponent's decklist is intentionally giving that player a disadvantage for the rest of the tournament, it's clearly a malicious act.
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Feb 14, 2014 20:56
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Zonekeeper posted:Bile Blight's text: And even if it did get -3/-3, an aura doesn't have power or toughness so it wouldn't do anything.
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Feb 14, 2014 21:01
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JerryLee posted:I'm just curious, which actual rule would you point to as grounds for stepping in, or is it just based on your interpretation of the spirit of what the DCI wants? There is no specific rule. You have to consider how insanely difficult it would be to write a rule that clearly differentiates between tweeting "Oh man, I just lost to Turn 1 Griselbrand" and an unreasonable dissemination of Tournament information that would create an advantage for some players/disadvantage for others. The impact on coverage, tournament reports, etc, would be a hot mess so instead the DCI wisely uses a lot of discretion. Thankfully its never been a problem but if it needed to be addressed the rule explaining acceptable use of electronic devices specifically names the Head Judge as the ultimate authority on what is acceptable. A lot of rules are written like that, you can't hide behind the letter of the law when doing dumb-rear end in a top hat poo poo. It bears mentioning during this discussion that nit-picks the validity of the rules regarding the use of electronic devices that the rule change to allow some use was in many ways a massive compromise. From strictly a rules and tournament integrity perspective I'm certain most judges and the DCI would prefer those devices be banned. The problem is that Phone Apps are immensely popular and penalizing their use at Competitive REL would add yet another obstacle to competitive play that new players or casual players would have to overcome. It's been the opinion of the DCI that there are far too many of those exist already and over past couple of years there has been a constant effort to try and lower the barrier to entry, in regards to the obstacles created by rules enforcement and tournament procedure. These rules attempt to strike a lovely balance, between stopping the use of electronic devices to cheat, and having players frustrated when they are penalized for behavior that's endemic in the community and its why they look so nonsensical in some ways. Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Feb 14, 2014 |
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Feb 14, 2014 21:04
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L0cke17 posted:The spirit is very very similar to Thalia in its uses. It attacks the same types of decks along a similar axis with nearly the same restrictions in deckbuilding as Thalia has. And she has been played a lot, and still has never really been over $5 iirc. They will both be played forever, but the demand for them is so small compared to standard cards, and the supply is so large that they don't get expensive. Well I could see that. I'd still snatch them up pretty quick if I could get sets for $1/card for trade fodder if nothing else. Still can't imagine either card hanging under $1 unless something from JiN comes out that's more useful post-rotation.
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Feb 14, 2014 21:13
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Honestly I consider Herald of Torment better for mono-black than Nightveil Specter in a lot of matchups. When Nightveil eats a Lightning Strike or gets swept, any cards under it are gone for good, too. At least with HoT, if it's bestowed, you get an extra creature out of the deal. In the mirror, that extra power eats opposing Nightveil Spectors and the evasion means you can fly over their rats. The evasion is also valuable against planeswalkers in RG(w) Monsters or WU control. Not to mention that he turns any creature on your side of the board into an immediate threat in the mid-late game. The 1 life per turn can be a pain, but if you hit a Gray Merchant or two, you should be fine.
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Feb 14, 2014 21:17
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bhsman posted:Then what the gently caress is wrong with photos if the hang up is the speed of disseminating information? No, the two issues are 1) slow play, and 2) making sure you're not using notes from previous rounds or outside sources during the game. Judges have to be able to enforce these, that's why there's mention of only using 1-2 sheets to limit slow play, and how there are procedures for explaining your notes to a judge. They have left these rules ambiguous with respect to electronic devices because it hasn't been a big issue. But searching someone's phone goes beyond just looking at their scrap papers, with potential legal consequences. If it becomes an issue that they can't enforce then they will ban it, but it just doesn't matter because right now no one at Competitive or Professional REL is gaining an advantage.
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Feb 14, 2014 21:17
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L0cke17 posted:The spirit is very very similar to Thalia in its uses. It attacks the same types of decks along a similar axis with nearly the same restrictions in deckbuilding as Thalia has. And she has been played a lot, and still has never really been over $5 iirc. They will both be played forever, but the demand for them is so small compared to standard cards, and the supply is so large that they don't get expensive. This is a pretty accurate response. SotL's demand is derived from the second-smallest constructed format, and is a current-set rare. Herald is only playable in Standard, and even then will be only sort-of-playable as long as Nightveil Specter is legal. Remember that Abrupt Decay, heavily played in Standard, Modern, Legacy, and Cube is $5-$6. Rares in in-print sets have to do a LOT of work to be worth more than a dollar or two. Consider Detention Sphere: http://magiccards.info/rtr/en/155.html A format role-player and barely $2. uggy posted:I look forward to you quoting the post every few months to make sure we remember that you think that.
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Feb 14, 2014 21:20
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bhsman posted:My point is that if someone wants to do disseminate information about a new deck, taking photos and not deleting them or texting someone is effectively the same thing you illiterate scubberdegullion. It took me a minute to figure out your damage but it has nothing to do with how easily a picture is disseminated compared to a physical note. Firstly, you can't distribute that poo poo like that, its unacceptable whether you use Morse Code or Tweet a Picture. You're allowed to talk to your friends, exchange tips, tweet about your match but you start making efforts to widely distribute information like that and you're going to get a suspension for something. Whether its cheating or something else is going to depend on the Judge. Secondly, Pictures aren't an acceptable way to take notes because adhering to the rules that define how and when you can take notes would be horribly impractical. Just the loving first one "No outside notes" would require that every match, when you sit down, a Judge or Opponent would need to flip through your phone to make sure pictures from other matches aren't on the phone. There are other rules, that would be just as terribly impractical. AnacondaHL posted:No, the two issues are... Beat me to it, while I tried to figure out what bhsman was on about but yeah exactly. The rules about how notes are handled cannot be easily applied to pictures, therefore pictures are not acceptable for notes. Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Feb 14, 2014 |
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Feb 14, 2014 21:26
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The Wonder Weapon posted:Rares in in-print sets have to do a LOT of work to be worth more than a dollar or two. Consider Detention Sphere: http://magiccards.info/rtr/en/155.html A format role-player and barely $2.
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Feb 14, 2014 21:28
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Okay, honest question, if the point is that some joe schmuck tweeting 'yo I played Owen Turtenwald and he's playing a new variant with X Y and Z' is damaging to Owen (or whoever), therefore bad, where do feature matches (let alone video matches) play into this? Surely reporting a player's play-by-plays for an entire match is much more damaging still? I mean yes, I get that organized play has a separate interest in feature matches as a tool to promote the game (and I personally am immensely glad of their existence) but putting that aside for a moment, if it's damaging to the outcome of the tournament to show or describe someone's new brew in round 3, surely the harm done is the same regardless of who is doing the reporting? I know they don't print deck lists until relatively late in the tournament for pretty much that reeason and that's probably a good line to draw, but nobody is talking about tweeting exact decklists here and I don't even know how you would mine that information without getting busted for slow play.
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Feb 14, 2014 21:36
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AnacondaHL posted:No, the two issues are 1) slow play, and 2) making sure you're not using notes from previous rounds or outside sources during the game. Judges have to be able to enforce these, that's why there's mention of only using 1-2 sheets to limit slow play, and how there are procedures for explaining your notes to a judge. Explain to me how using a phone is somehow slower than stopping to write down a list of cards. EDIT: My point about people tweeting or what-have-you is that if the point is to underhandedly-spread information in violation of the rules, banning phones from being used to take pictures is hardly going to stop it. bhsman fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Feb 14, 2014 |
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Feb 14, 2014 21:39
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bhsman posted:Explain to me how using a phone is somehow slower than stopping to write down a list of cards. That part doesn't matter though?
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Feb 14, 2014 21:42
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ScarletBrother posted:That part doesn't matter though? Anaconda referenced 'slow play' in his very post, as have several other people, so I'd say it does matter at this point, if only to show why that's a misconception.
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Feb 14, 2014 21:44
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bhsman posted:Anaconda referenced 'slow play' in his very post, as have several other people, so I'd say it does matter at this point, if only to show why that's a misconception. I guess fumbling through your photo album for the relevant picture(s) could conceivably take some time.
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Feb 14, 2014 21:45
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JerryLee posted:Okay, honest question, if the point is that some joe schmuck tweeting 'yo I played Owen Turtenwald and he's playing a new variant with X Y and Z' is damaging to Owen (or whoever), therefore bad, where do feature matches (let alone video matches) play into this? Surely reporting a player's play-by-plays for an entire match is much more damaging still? Feature Matches and Coverage pretty much sacrifice Tournament Integrity in the interest of promoting the game. It's just that simple, if there is a way to promote high level play that doesn't do that I'm sure DCI would be thrilled to hear about it. I'm not certain at what point someone crosses the line between tweeting about their match and something unacceptable, and thankfully it hasn't really been a problem, but I guarantee if someone ever manages to use technology to create a significant problem they won't be able to hide behind "well the rules say I can talk to my friends between rounds!" or "coverage does the same thing!" bhsman posted:Anaconda referenced 'slow play' in his very post, as have several other people, so I'd say it does matter at this point, if only to show why that's a misconception. There are rules, regarding notes, that exist solely in the interest of combating "Slow Play" that taking pictures cannot adhere to. For example we limit the amount of paper used to stop excessive notes grinding play to a halt, there is no sensible, easily demonstrable way to apply similar rules to photos. Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Feb 14, 2014 |
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Feb 14, 2014 21:47
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Soooo, phonechat aside, one of my friends brought up an interesting idea about new lands to print. Would legendary dual lands (as in, identical to the originals except legendary) be in violation of the spirit of the reserve list or too destabilizing to modern? It seems like a pretty nice inclusion to ease the manabase price of old formats a little bit.
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Feb 14, 2014 21:47
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ScarletBrother posted:I guess fumbling through your photo album for the relevant picture(s) could conceivably take some time. Serious question: Do you have an iPhone and has it been updated?
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Feb 14, 2014 21:49
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bhsman posted:Serious question: Do you have an iPhone and has it been updated? I do not have an iPhone. I have a Nexus 4. Why does that matter?
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Feb 14, 2014 21:51
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A big flaming stink posted:Soooo, phonechat aside, one of my friends brought up an interesting idea about new lands to print. Would legendary dual lands (as in, identical to the originals except legendary) be in violation of the spirit of the reserve list or too destabilizing to modern? It seems like a pretty nice inclusion to ease the manabase price of old formats a little bit. That was the early thinking on the Theros duals, but it's a bad idea because it would in fact destabilize the gently caress out of modern (and standard). You'd have to go supplemental and legacy-only to make them helpful, which brings its own bugbears about print runs. The real answer is Snow Land - Island Swamp 
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Feb 14, 2014 21:55
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bhsman posted:Anaconda referenced 'slow play' in his very post, as have several other people, so I'd say it does matter at this point, if only to show why that's a misconception. No, you are the one with the misconception. The actual question is: "how does a JUDGE determine what the slow play limit is of you taking and referencing photos with your phone?" No one gives a gently caress if taking a picture is faster than using pen and paper. There is no guideline and limit for what determines slow play, and most attempts at making that guideline have legal consequences, or sound completely ridiculous (e.g. to emulate the 1-2 sheet of paper rule, players can only take 10 photos per game otherwise it constitutes as slow play)
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Feb 14, 2014 21:55
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Just how important is it that people don't know other people's decklists? I would think that in Legacy and Modern, you're opponents are going to be playing well-worn archetypes, meaning that you basically know the deck their playing as soon as they drop their first notable play, and Standard can get pretty drat same-y too. If you made everyone's decklist available to their opponents, wouldn't it lead to much more skill-intensive play? I mean, both players are at the same advantage/disadvantage, but now they can make more informed play decisions. However, by the same logic, it might lead to more mechanical play as well. i.e. I know you're playing Jund, so I know that I have to have a Turn 1 counterspell to stop you Thoughtseizing the best card in my hand/my most important combo piece. I don't intend to imply that I'm some kind of tournament play expert or anything, just that hiding decklists seems like an irrelevant action, though I'm willing to be wrong. A big flaming stink posted:Soooo, phonechat aside, one of my friends brought up an interesting idea about new lands to print. Would legendary dual lands (as in, identical to the originals except legendary) be in violation of the spirit of the reserve list or too destabilizing to modern? It seems like a pretty nice inclusion to ease the manabase price of old formats a little bit. Also, Wizards likes their cards being expensive, and will likely only bring the price "down" if it's guaranteed to rise back up due to increased availability increasing demand. It wouldn't surprise me a bit to learn that most Wizards employees directly involved in Magic trade cards with advance knowledge of what archetypes will exist/become better supported, thus supplementing their income by a notable margin.
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Feb 14, 2014 21:56
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bhsman posted:Or, assuming cards like Slaughter Games that let you search an opponent's library, you could just record a video while you search through the deck. I wonder if anyone has ever written down their opponents deck list after casting Slaughter Games...
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Feb 14, 2014 22:00
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ScarletBrother posted:I do not have an iPhone. I have a Nexus 4. Why does that matter? I can't speak for you, then, but it's really easy to open up the phone app on an iPhone now, which is why the talk of it being too slow was so strange to me. AnacondaHL posted:No, you are the one with the misconception. Posters have complained about taking pictures being slower, so you are wrong here. Sorry. quote:The actual question is: "how does a JUDGE determine what the slow play limit is of you taking and referencing photos with your phone?" Why would you need more than one photo?
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Feb 14, 2014 22:01
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Here's an idea: ask your opponent "is it okay if I just take a picture instead of writing it down?" If he says yes, then do that. If he says no, write it down.
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Feb 14, 2014 22:01
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Sharzak posted:Here's an idea: ask your opponent "is it okay if I just take a picture instead of writing it down?" If he says yes, then do that. If he says no, write it down. Yes, this. Jesus Christ, people. 
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Feb 14, 2014 22:02
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bhsman posted:
Because image stabilization on a lot of phones is awful at taking recognizable pictures.
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Feb 14, 2014 22:04
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Sharzak posted:Here's an idea: ask your opponent "is it okay if I just take a picture instead of writing it down?" If he says yes, then do that. If he says no, write it down. This is fine for FNM, but it's still against the loving rules for competitive REL and above, which is what I've been saying for 3 loving pages now. It's a bad habit to get into if you want to get into serious play.
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Feb 14, 2014 22:05
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bhsman posted:Why would you need more than one photo? Its not about how many photos you need or don't dude, its about how you can't write rules, regarding many things not just slow play, comparable to those that exist for physical notes. You can't have one set of rules that doesn't apply to photos-as-notes and one rule applying to physical ones. Why is that so hard for you to understand?Sharzak posted:Here's an idea: ask your opponent "is it okay if I just take a picture instead of writing it down?" If he says yes, then do that. If he says no, write it down. There are many rules that apply to notes at tournaments for many reasons. These rules cannot be easily and readily applied to pictures serving as notes so unfortunately we can't allow that idea as elegant as it may seem.
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Feb 14, 2014 22:06
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Cactrot posted:Because image stabilization on a lot of phones is awful at taking recognizable pictures. Oh I understand having to re-take a photo, but deleting takes little time and can be accomplished between matches or even while your opponent is searching through his deck or somesuch.
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Feb 14, 2014 22:06
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Dehtraen posted:I wonder if anyone has ever written down their opponents deck list after casting Slaughter Games... Writing down your opponent's whole deck is explicitly called out as slow play in the same source I linked to earlier.
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Feb 14, 2014 22:06
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