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Zybourne Clock posted:5N+V. Humble yourself, be honest about it, and apologize to Ishamal. Yeah, sure.
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Feb 14, 2014 21:27
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Ish is so old he doesn't remember what it was like to be in that adolescent 'no one takes me seriously' phase.
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Feb 14, 2014 21:28
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Watuhboy posted:Ish is so old he doesn't remember what it was like to be in that adolescent 'no one takes me seriously' phase. When I was your age, I always did everything that anyone even the least bit older than me told me to do, no questions asked. It's a scientific fact that older people have never been wrong about anything in the history of ever. It's you drat kids who keep screwing everything up.
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Feb 14, 2014 21:33
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V. Ascend Mt. Har and get the answers that we apparently need so badly that we're willing to ignore ancient heroes and angels.
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Feb 14, 2014 21:36
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Voting N. Also voting NOT to apologize to Ishmael. He may be upset, but he was still insane to ask an 18 year old to be sterilized the day before his wedding and providing no basically information as to why.
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Feb 14, 2014 21:37
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There are some weird shifts in Ishamal's positions. Consider: "How well informed is Tudiya?"Ishamal Today posted:Do you think yourself wiser than he? Do you think, boy, that because you have seen odd things in your life, that Tudiya, the man who saved you from Athar, fed you, clothed you, taught you and joined you to his line a fool in his faith? That all the teachings of El's temples lies? That Tudiya is a deluded simpleton? That all who have done great deeds in his name fools and only YOU know the secret truth because you have seen odd things you do not understand?" Ishamal Yesterday posted:"Your children are a far more grave threat than other threats. If you think they would all be wise, what of their sons and theirs? It does not matter. Your descendants will not rid the world of demons. Tudiya's fears are not misplaced but they are wrong, he does not have all the information." Ishamal Yesterday posted:
Tudiya got a lot more informed in 24 hours. Then, does El answer prayers: Ishamal Today posted:"You cried out to El in that cave boy and his son has answered you in your dreams. The dream was true. Smythos has delivered a message to you." Ishamal Yesterday posted:
Yesterday he had the fully heretical position that we were the person who caused an El-miracle. But now he's implying that El heard and sent his son in response? We were a world-breaker who answered our own prayer to EL. But today how dare we construct fantasies of power. -------------- I'm pretty much fully Team Storm-warning at this point. That's the power that I'd have faith in. The visions told us to prepare. I think that means he wants us to use our judgements. I'm fine taking advice from wiser people. But Ishamal's asking for blind, unquestioning trust. Long-term, that seems to go against the Storm-Power's plan. Plus, I actively dislike Smythos at this point. He watches. And his dream is that he'll watch the earth burn until every living thing has died. Then he'll bother to intervene. If so, screw him. My vote is: L. Yes. You are lying. Ishamal's powerful enough to force us to bend a knee. But force doesn't get loyalty. Or trust. And I don't think he's anywhere near powerful enough to countermand the storm-voice. But, I'd also like to Ask: "You watched our memories in the cave. Did you see what happened as everything went dark?" If he saw our death, I'll be willing to upgrade my vote to 'unsure'. But, right now, I suspect we got a direct intervention from El / The Storm Power. And I'm almost certain that this intervention was hidden from Ishamal.
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Feb 14, 2014 21:40
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Mexican Deathgasm posted:
I would like to vote this as well, for exactly the same reason. Smattas can have us humbled, but I think Enkidel would still be pretty upset that his mentor figure pulled this poo poo the night before his wedding.
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Feb 14, 2014 21:40
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Zybourne Clock posted:5N+V. Humble yourself, be honest about it, and apologize to Ishamal. This is a good plan. Angry Ishamal is Scary Ishamal.
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Feb 14, 2014 21:48
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Task Manager posted:I would like to vote this as well, for exactly the same reason. Yeah. Ishamal's reaction seems weird to me. Yesterday, there were Dire Warnings. But there were a bunch of options of varying quality. I think a roughly-even split was shockingly reasonable, given the suddenness of the demand. And, when we left things, we were going to go get a second opinion. Then we got a dream. Ishamal might know Smattas sent it. But for all we knew, it could have come from any number of sources. If we were supposed to take dreams at face value, Bareen could have had us years ago. And now he's coming out of the gate angry. He's doing a hard-sell and suddenly being way more explicit about theology than he ever has been in the past. I'm betting that we weren't the only one who got a vision. I think Ishamal got a sending, too. He's on edge because he's closet to us, and a higher-up told him to Fix The Problem Now.
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Feb 14, 2014 21:49
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Task Manager posted:I would like to vote this as well, for exactly the same reason. Yah, voting this. gently caress this cryptic bullshit, we'll listen to ol' Smatty if he just tells us what the gently caress is going on.
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Feb 14, 2014 21:52
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falcon2424 posted:
Smythos was never the world's protector, that was not his job and his position. He is Law and Order incarnate and acts swiftly against those who break El's law but the the vision that we saw was beyond him to act. Or heck, maybe he was up in heaven battling Asherah while the world burned below, to busy with saving heaven and everything else to handle slaying all the Foes.
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Feb 14, 2014 21:55
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Zybourne Clock posted:5N+V. Humble yourself, be honest about it, and apologize to Ishamal. Voting this. I also previously voted to zap our nuts . Once again, we are shown that every vote counts. Even if a vote option does not win, any leading vote options will be interpreted by Diog's as indecisiveness or seriously considered options. Oh goons... Our votes are turning Enkidel into a Schizophrenic super man. He loves Naomi, but wants to eat her heart. He wants to zap his nuts to spare himself and others misery, but he also wants to tell Smatass to gently caress off. Normally, our schizophrenia does not matter. Most cannot see our mental dialogue. But when dealing with those that can see our intentions and mental strife, such as Ishamal, El, and the Melachim, our intentions do matter. El responded to our call for aid in the battle against the demon because of the overwhelming vote to do so. If the vote had not been nearly unanimous, then El would not have granted us power. He may have saved our men another way, maybe through our priest friend, but not through Enkidel. I suggest people consider the implications of their votes in a game with all knowing judging beings and supermen. For now, I think we need a strong vote for apologizing to Ishamal and agree to be neutered.
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Feb 14, 2014 21:56
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5. You say... N. Yes. You are not lying. I'm also changing my vote to agree to being sterilized.
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Feb 14, 2014 21:57
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falcon2424 posted:My vote is: Yep. I like your moxie. L. Also, considering multiple sides of things and being conflicted is not schizophrenia. It is how people think about stuff. Especially considering the disconnect between the bullshit we're asked to swallow and the trust we had for the person feeding us said bullshit.
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Feb 14, 2014 22:03
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falcon2424 posted:Plus, I actively dislike Smythos at this point. He watches. And his dream is that he'll watch the earth burn until every living thing has died. Then he'll bother to intervene. If so, screw him. Azzazel made it very clear to Enkidel that the Melachim are not going to let him reproduce. I've said it before and I'll say it again: the Melachim made the world by El's orders, and do the necessary maintenance to keep things going smoothly. The Melachim have always shown themselves happy to aide Enkidel, if you recall the many times he should have died but didn't due to Xuriel's intervention. They haven't zapped his genitals yet because Enkidel isn't an animal, and should make that decision by himself. But you should not think they will ever let Armageddon come to pass. If Enkidel remains uncooperative, they will erase him from existence well before his first son is ever born. The earth will keep on turning, the sun will keep on shining, the world will lack Enkidel's progeny and will be better off because of it. Jewcoon posted:Yah, voting this. gently caress this cryptic bullshit, we'll listen to ol' Smatty if he just tells us what the gently caress is going on. I'm not being sarcastic, but did you happen to miss the update in which Smattas pretty much said 'your children will cause the world to end, and you're a fool if you think otherwise'?
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Feb 14, 2014 22:04
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N I humble myself.
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Feb 14, 2014 22:05
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No gods, no masters P Celibacy will continue to serve their purposes until we understand the actions which are demanded from us.
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Feb 14, 2014 22:05
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Zybourne Clock posted:Azzazel made it very clear to Enkidel that the Melachim are not going to let him reproduce. I've said it before and I'll say it again: the Melachim made the world by El's orders, and do the necessary maintenance to keep things going smoothly. The Melachim have always shown themselves happy to aide Enkidel, if you recall the many times he should have died but didn't due to Xuriel's intervention. They haven't zapped his genitals yet because Enkidel isn't an animal, and should make that decision by himself. But you should not think they will ever let Armageddon come to pass. If Enkidel remains uncooperative, they will erase him from existence well before his first son is ever born. The earth will keep on turning, the sun will keep on shining, the world will lack Enkidel's progeny and will be better off because of it. No, but I did see the update which posited mysterious forces would cause mankind to die, and these forces were related to us in mysterious ways, but that we couldn't think clearly about said forces because they were too mysterious.
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Feb 14, 2014 22:06
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Wentley posted:No, but I did see the update which posited mysterious forces would cause mankind to die, and these forces were related to us in mysterious ways, but that we couldn't think clearly about said forces because they were too mysterious. Or, you know, Diog could just tell us exactly what's he's planning. Diog are we Jesus?
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Feb 14, 2014 22:08
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Deadly Ham Sandwich posted:I suggest people consider the implications of their votes in a game with all knowing judging beings and supermen. For now, I think we need a strong vote for apologizing to Ishamal and agree to be neutered. I think we need a strong vote saying no to getting neutered, but also no to having kids until we understand more. People are acting like there are two options: get neutered, or have babies and cause the apocalypse. That is not the case. We can also not get neutered and not have babies. Ishamal's anger is ridiculous. We had a vague dream and understand almost nothing of the true nature of the world, but we are expected to make irrevocable changes with utmost certainty?
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Feb 14, 2014 22:09
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Zybourne Clock posted:5N+V. Humble yourself, be honest about it, and apologize to Ishamal. Voting this too!
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Feb 14, 2014 22:10
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Tsyni posted:I think we need a strong vote saying no to getting neutered, but also no to having kids until we understand more. People are acting like there are two options: get neutered, or have babies and cause the apocalypse. That is not the case. We can also not get neutered and not have babies. In Enkidel's world? Yes, yes you are.
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Feb 14, 2014 22:11
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N and voting to zap Enki's balls
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Feb 14, 2014 22:14
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I'll add to that. The Melachim cannot be forced or bargained into revealing the secrets of life/Enkidel. The only times the ophanim get involved is when a major gently caress ups occurs. Ishamal has stated repeatedly that the ophanim will only intervene and tell us to knock our poo poo off when we are messing with poo poo we should not. A direct message from Smythos/Smatass means we are loving up big. "Why doesn't Smartass just do poo poo himself or talk to us face to face like a real man?" My retort is Smythos/Smatass is not a man. He is the angel of divine fury and justice. The only appointments available in his schedule are for major smiting and rear end kicking. You don't want to be added to his schedule. On the other hand, if we gently caress up bad enough, I am sure more fun things will happen, like our recent nightmare.
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Feb 14, 2014 22:14
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On top of the humbling ourselves, I'm also voting to be made sterile
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Feb 14, 2014 22:15
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Oh, gently caress you Ishamal. If you were truly wise you would understand why the hell we would be angry at being told to chop off our balls the day before our wedding, and a couple of days after we beat a loving demon into the ground. You would understand that we want some bloody answers and reasons why this would be necessary. It is the weak, the stupid and the authoritarian who resort to force. Smartass, and apparently Ishamal, are this kind of being. Ishamal is not wise, he is a pawn being told what to do. Azz is the only wise one here. I'm only willing to trust Azz in the future, though I'm sure he will turn on us eventually, too. Spit in Ishamal's face, and defend ourselves if he tries to force us sterile
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Feb 14, 2014 22:18
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N
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Feb 14, 2014 22:20
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Feb 14, 2014 22:21
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Feb 14, 2014 22:23
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Tsyni posted:I think we need a strong vote saying no to getting neutered, but also no to having kids until we understand more. People are acting like there are two options: get neutered, or have babies and cause the apocalypse. That is not the case. We can also not get neutered and not have babies. An important thing in this game is faith. Faith requires us to act not just with incomplete knowledge, but also with trust in higher powers. Also, the evil forces are mysterious because we are not meant to know who they are. I believe the evil forces are demons. Knowing who those demons are would probably reveal some big secret of the universe. I think the demons were our genetic sons or fallen angels, or both. Either fact would be a huge upset to this society. I am not going to detail why because my thumbs are tired. But just remember our religion has no origin story for demons and does not have any story of melanin fighting eachother, disagreeing with El, or trying to take men's souls from El.
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Feb 14, 2014 22:24
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quote:You watched our memories in the cave. Did you see what happened as everything went dark? quote:Ishamal, if I choose to be sterilized, will you help me find a way to tell Naomi that will not violate my promises to you? Deadly Ham Sandwich posted:Once again, we are shown that every vote counts. Even if a vote option does not win, any leading vote options will be interpreted by Diog's as indecisiveness or seriously considered options
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Feb 14, 2014 22:29
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Zybourne Clock posted:Azzazel made it very clear to Enkidel that the Melachim are not going to let him reproduce. I've said it before and I'll say it again: the Melachim made the world by El's orders, and do the necessary maintenance to keep things going smoothly. The Melachim have always shown themselves happy to aide Enkidel, if you recall the many times he should have died but didn't due to Xuriel's intervention. They haven't zapped his genitals yet because Enkidel isn't an animal, and should make that decision by himself. But you should not think they will ever let Armageddon come to pass. If Enkidel remains uncooperative, they will erase him from existence well before his first son is ever born. The earth will keep on turning, the sun will keep on shining, the world will lack Enkidel's progeny and will be better off because of it. This line: "But you should not think they will ever let Armageddon come to pass" gets at a key problem with your reading. You could be right about the dream-sender's intention. And that would have horrifying implications. We've been told that the Storm is Coming. If the Melachim think that the Storm is contingent on our having kids, then they're wrong. Worse, it means that they aren't communicating with the power behind the Storm Vision.
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Feb 14, 2014 22:31
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falcon2424 posted:This line: "But you should not think they will ever let Armageddon come to pass" gets at a key problem with your reading. You could be right about the dream-sender's intention. And that would have horrifying implications. Maybe they just know that us having kids will make it worse. And maybe that will tip the scales?
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Feb 14, 2014 22:34
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Ask Ish Is there no way to prevent our power from being passed on to any offspring?
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Feb 14, 2014 22:39
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I wonder if WE are the Coming Storm. Like The Doctor.
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Feb 14, 2014 22:44
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N- We're the most humble man there ever was.
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Feb 14, 2014 22:48
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Wentley posted:No, but I did see the update which posited mysterious forces would cause mankind to die, and these forces were related to us in mysterious ways, but that we couldn't think clearly about said forces because they were too mysterious. Smattas posted:After your seed In other words, if Enkidel were to reproduce unimpeded, the nightmarish visions would become reality. It doesn't even matter who the 'mysterious forces' are; just the condition of Enkidel reproducing is enough to cause this. The nature of the foe is unimportant, but should you disagree, it's still not very hard to find out who they are if you combine two bits of information. At the fallen city posted:Your army feels the tremors which grow more frequent by the day but they at least are spared the knowledge of those who cause them. You hear their blows every moment, far distant and close as they give out useless cries for justice, vengeance, greed or roars of pure animal savagery for those who have lost their minds utterly, paying little attention to what they trample beneath them as they struggle. The 'mysterious foes' are clearly human, unless demons will somehow became enlightened creatures that care about justice and vengeance some time in the not so far future. At the end of existence posted:Are you all that remains? At this point in the vision, the planet is nothing more than a lump of molten rock that doesn't even have an atmosphere any more. Yet the battle continues. Our army is dead, all normal men are dead, even all Mighty Men are dead. Only the strong are still alive, those with blood of great power. Enkidel's blood.
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Feb 14, 2014 22:50
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5: N+V(Apologize)
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Feb 14, 2014 22:53
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Tsyni posted:I think we need a strong vote saying no to getting neutered, but also no to having kids until we understand more. People are acting like there are two options: get neutered, or have babies and cause the apocalypse. That is not the case. We can also not get neutered and not have babies. It's not ridiculous when he can obviously tell a part of us (I.E people in this thread) have feelings of anger and spite at Ishamal and Smattas, which in my opinion is totally hosed up now that it has been beaten to us over in our head. We don't deserve any answers, not with the way we have been acting. We've seriously have gotten lucky whenever we tried to use our powers in that no on has died, although Snarls was very close to losing his soul when we tried to borrow his smell powers. We were told not to mess with poo poo and we still did, likely losing a bit of power along the way with our impatience, all along expecting to DESERVE answers from powers that be based on the fact that we are a special snowflake that doesn't poop. This is exactly the mentality Ishamal wanted to avoid having in us. As Ishamal said, we may be stronger or swifter than other men, but we aren't more worthy. The Grigori are El's first children who helped him make the world we live now. Who are we to object to their wishes? We obviously matter enough to them, especially Smattas to get a warning, why be spiteful and ignore it? How does that help us find out answers? Holding on to this hate and the, frankly, idiotic thought that every single one of our line will be good little boys and girls with no chances of loving up like we almost did multiple times will just lead to Ishamal and the Melachim on the fence that we are arrogant dumbasses don't deserve to be on this world. The spiteful responses just reinforces that. We don't deserve jack and poo poo just for being born with these powers. e: N and V (apologize) for the vote.
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Feb 14, 2014 22:59
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falcon2424 posted:I'm betting that we weren't the only one who got a vision. I think Ishamal got a sending, too. He's on edge because he's closet to us, and a higher-up told him to Fix The Problem Now. I want to ask Ishamal if he received a message too.  Further, I hadn't cast a vote (this time!) about our magical vasectomy idea. I am now voting in favor of sterilization.
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Feb 14, 2014 23:08
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