|
chumbler posted:Impossible. Meer at least had flaws and some sort of personality (admittedly it's been years since I watched Destiny so I could be imagining it) rather than existing as some sort of Madonna-esque ideal. I would gladly take a character whose sole reason for existing is her outfit and chest over Lacus. The reason why he does is because they couldn't afford TM Revolution for more than one episode.  (kind of like how he dies in episode 1 of SEED)
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 04:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 09:13 |
|
|
Eej posted:Also one of the "problems" with SEED, depending on your point of view, is that it absorbed a lot of shounen cliches and tropes into its storytelling. If you're not familiar with the term, it's a term that is generally used to refer to the young boy demographic (elementary school to early teens). Stuff like Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, etc. There's a lot of "I fight for my friends!" and winning people over through the power of friendship and that the protagonist can occasionally screw up (this happens less as the series goes on) but thematically speaking is an embodiment of a force for Good. This also means that everyone he blows up along the way either had it coming or it's okay they died because Kira was fighting for his friends (fighting for Good). There's a reason why the internet pejoratively calls him Jesus Yamato. I dunno, MSG Amuro was pretty generic Hero Guy. He also made a couple mistakes but he was also the Good Guy Who Was Fighting For What Is Right. And G Gundam had its main villain being the Devil (Gundam). SEED and especially Destiny have all sorts of unpleasant undertones apparently. TVTropes notes that Destiny might be so popular in Japan because it is rampant with Japanese nationalism and maybe even some anti-America stuff.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 04:17
|
|
|
Oh, I forgot to mention that Good always wins over Evil... which doesn't really happen in UC. Also Amuro never becomes some kind of ridiculous super pilot who waltzes around the fight, shooting down tens to hundreds of enemy suits without killing any of the pilots. I mean it's hard to get it until you actually watch SEED but I'm sure you'll understand what I mean afterwards.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 04:19
|
|
|
Amuro does however run around stomping just about anyone who looks at him funny in an untested mobile suit with thrown together weaponry in CCA though, and it's awesome.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 04:23
|
|
|
Kanos posted:Meer's character arc was actually pretty good and is one of the few likeable things about the latter 2/3rds of Destiny. She was a really flawed and broken person struggling to come to terms with a major identity crisis. I'm sorry, but all I think of when Meer comes up is her hilarious death scene and subsequent tribute episode. I'm spoiling that because if Nikkolas really wants to see SEED Destiny, he should at least get to experience that firsthand.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 05:12
|
|
|
Amuro has a believable arc from desperate kid who would rather be anywhere else to mass murdering war vet which is more than anyone from SEED or Wing ever had
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 05:12
|
|
|
I kinda doubt that to be frank. Of the things in MSG I liked, Amuro was never even close to being one of them. The fact he was so unbearable and then unremarkable was one of my chief complaints about the anime. Just like Char he has imporved in Zeta, but I just can't picture me disliking...erm, Heero I think it is, and Kira as much.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 05:17
|
|
|
BlitzBlast posted:G Gundam was the first major series to not be directed by Tomino IIRC, and Imagawa basically spent a lot of time poking fun at some of the series' greater excesses. He also responded to the growing toy focus by throwing in a ton of poo poo that nobody could make toys of, and did his usual budget wizardry so the show's fun to watch too. Didn't this semi backfire by his designs actually inspiring the toy designers to make drastic leaps forwards in action figure design to make toys of the stuff he put in the show? Stuff like the heavy focus on the mech's hands lead to drastic improvement in the articulation of small parts.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 05:17
|
|
|
I always really liked Amuro.  He's a pretty believable kid in my opinion--an aspie and a shut-in, but he develops into someone everyone relies on because he has to. A good protagonist for the anime crowd to look up to.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 05:27
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:I kinda doubt that to be frank. Of the things in MSG I liked, Amuro was never even close to being one of them. The fact he was so unbearable and then unremarkable was one of my chief complaints about the anime. As stated earlier, you'll make your mind up while you watch. I can promise you though, a lot of the things we're saying about Kira are pretty spot on, and there's a really good post Zorak made back about some rather unfortunate implications one can take away from the endings of SEED and Destiny worth going back through the thread to find. Kira for me was just really bland and an obvious self insert for the writer's husband, especially as the show goes on. It also doesn't help that he, Lacus and Flay are incredibly uninteresting when compared to the rest of the cast, especially considering Athrun, Cagalli, Mu and most of the crew of the Archangel and Zaft pilots are there to be far more interesting. Amuro when it comes down to is deserves every bit of the praise he and his development as a character gets. The worst thing you can say is that he's a bit too paranoid, but honestly he's usually right.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 05:31
|
|
|
Yeah, the nice thing about Amuro is that he wasn't always the same. In MSG he's kind of an unlikable brat at times, in Zeta he's a tinfoil hat, and by CCA he's grown up and pretty cool. He's not the sort of character who developed all in the span of 2-3 months. He had a pretty long run and changed a bit over the years.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 05:31
|
|
|
Yeah Amuro basically goes through Luke Skywalker's whole arc but at a much better pace
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 05:49
|
|
|
Learning that the writer basically put herself and her husband in a show as self inserts was one of those things that just filled in the seams between all the bricks that make up the wall of poo poo that SEED is.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 06:11
|
|
|
To be fair, Amuro's character arc is done a lot better in the various remakes of the original series (the movies, the novels, The Origin, etc.)
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 06:40
|
|
|
Eeeeh. I've read the novels a few times but I don't think Amuro had the greatest arc in it. He's kind of wishy-washy and weirdly developed and the fact that he dies unceremoniously before the last battle kind of cuts him off from reaching any specific high point.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 06:50
|
|
|
All the talk about G Gundam got me looking at some videos and I wanted to ask you all something. Well, it's for the people who've seen the English dub. What are your thoughts on its quality, or lack thereof? As I noted earlier I thought G Gundam was a very silly show so the dub fit. If these people had been dubbing FMA or something I would've been pissed but for G Gundam I accepted it. However I'm not sure if that makes it good or So Bad It's Good. The only voices I really remember are Domon's and Master Asia's. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSHfJuGzUdM I think Master Asia's is legit good though. I recall even a Japanese poster elsewhere who criticized the dub praising his performance.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 07:12
|
|
|
The G gundam dub is loving dope. Its a drat shame gatha quit voice acting, but "Im literally a surgeon" is pretty decent reason to quit
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 07:25
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:All the talk about G Gundam got me looking at some videos and I wanted to ask you all something. Well, it's for the people who've seen the English dub. What are your thoughts on its quality, or lack thereof? As I noted earlier I thought G Gundam was a very silly show so the dub fit. If these people had been dubbing FMA or something I would've been pissed but for G Gundam I accepted it. Master Asia wants you to get mad. Master Asia and Domon are pretty good, but the supporting cast is kinda weak.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 07:33
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:All the talk about G Gundam got me looking at some videos and I wanted to ask you all something. Well, it's for the people who've seen the English dub. What are your thoughts on its quality, or lack thereof? As I noted earlier I thought G Gundam was a very silly show so the dub fit. If these people had been dubbing FMA or something I would've been pissed but for G Gundam I accepted it. The central cast of Domon, Master Asia, and Rain all do a pretty terrific job, and I liked Allenby's voice actress (I think she was Four in Zeta) a lot as well. The only voice actor I genuinely disliked was Sai Saici because whoever it was just hit that cracking puberty voice too well and it gets grating. EDIT: Holy poo poo, Master Asia's English VA was only 30, that is one hell of a good old man voice. TARDISman fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Feb 15, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 07:39
|
|
|
Domon and Master Asia were basically the stars of the dub, yeah. I seem to recall Sai Saici's lackeys in particular to be hilariously bad though.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 07:41
|
|
|
MEAT! posted:Master Asia wants you to get mad. Schwarz and Sai Sici are pretty damned decent too. Chibodee suffers primarily from his entire gimmick of random English sprinkled through his speech in the original not really being workable in the dub. Argo and George were always pretty boring.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 07:43
|
|
|
The dub actors of Domon and Master Asis have what might be some of the best attack name yelling in all of anime. Usually most english voice actors can't pull it off very well and sound super dumb but they are just so good at it.
Ethiser fucked around with this message at 09:25 on Feb 15, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 07:45
|
|
|
Sai Sici is helped by the fact that nobody could be worse than his Japanese actor.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 07:49
|
|
|
TARDISman posted:and I liked Allenby's voice actress (I think she was Four in Zeta) Yep, I was very surprised to learn this while checking out her wiki page. She also reprized her role as Four for a couple video games and I kinda want to check those out now. (I really loved Four...gently caress you Jerid.) I hope the Zeta video game is fun at least. Ethiser posted:The dub actors of Domon and Master Asis have what might be some of the best attack name yelling in all of anime. Usually the english voice actors can't pull it off very well and sound super dumb but they are just so good at it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkIJYrjUYyQ With only five more episodes to go in Zeta I think I'm gonna head to bed and save the climax for tomorrow. Thoughts in the meantime: 1. Goddammit Reccoa. And Fa. You're both kinda killing me when it comes to my attempting to build a case for Zeta doing women justice. 2. I'm beginning to like Scirocco more. He has a really cool dub voice and while it's apparent to us what a sleeze he is, you can believe why women such as Sarah and Reccoa flock to him. He's gotta finally be making his move any episode now and I can't wait. 3. Jerid is the worst. Killed Four was the worst from an out-of-universe perspective but what about in-universe? The dude only fails again and again and again and again and yet somehow he is now taking orders directly from the leader of the Titans. I get he is ambitious but you need competence to go along with that. And yet, in spite of having absolutely no competence to speak of, he has risen through the ranks. Personally, if I was a dictator, I'd have probably executed the dumbass who fed the rebels the best possible propaganda by attacking a city on live television. Not just attacking a city either, attacking a city hosting a meeting of people both sympathetic and unsympathetic to my cause. 3. That Newtype chick who was calling Kamille her brother...she really weirded me out. Obviously being a Cyber Newtype comes with a lot of emotional issues but it was just strange seeing a grown woman acting like those two annoying brats. 4. Has any Gundma MC had it worse than Kamille? And I'm sure it's only gonna go downhill from here. 5. I can only imagine what was going through Char's head when Haman said to him that he was helping to restore the Zabi family to its glory. Surprised he didn't flip his poo poo like earlier. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 11:39 on Feb 15, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 07:54
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:1. Goddammit Reccoa. And Fa. You're both kinda killing me when it comes to my attempting to build a case for Zeta doing women justice. As has been noted earlier in the thread, Tomino seems to have... complicated feelings about women, and they change over time. You'll probably have a hard time building a case for any series's treatment of women until you get to, like, Turn A. I don't think any weird stuff necessarily comes from a place of misogyny, though. First Gundam is the worst about it, but the movies do a lot to improve that and The Origin goes even farther and makes Sayla the most badass person on White Base by a wide margin from the get-go, with her and Mirai being the most confident and collected of the crew. Victory has by far the most bizarre stuff in it (at all, let alone about women), but it also has a ton of women piloting or otherwise being central characters and it tries to say a lot... to varying degrees of success. quote:3. That Newtype chick who was calling Kamille her brother...she really weirded me out. Obviously being a Cyber Newtype comes with a lot of emotional issues but it was just strange seeing a grown woman acting like those two annoying brats. quote:4. Has any Gundma MC had it worse than Kamille? And I'm sure it's only gonna go downhill from here.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 13:33
|
|
|
I really wanna read Origin. It sounds like it took all the good of MSG and got rid of all the bad. Sadly though, I won't be watching Victory because it was never dubbed. Well maybe it got one of those cheap Animax dubs but that's it. According to a poster elsewhere, it is easily the most misogynistic Gundam, alongside AGE. I think he cited a little girl being decapitated? Ecch, I hope I'm remembering that wrong. If there is one series I feel left out on, it's Gundam X. I'd really love to watch that. It sounds really interesting.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 13:42
|
|
|
The little girl being decapitated thing is from the movie Ideon Be Invoked. There is however a memorable decapitation in Victory. I wouldn't call Victory misogynistic though. Unless your only qualification for misogyny is female character deaths taken completely out of context.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 13:50
|
|
|
Victory isn't misogynistic, it just contains a lot of Tomino's weird sexist ideas like a women's death is inherently more tragic than a man's because they're
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 13:58
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:I really wanna read Origin. It sounds like it took all the good of MSG and got rid of all the bad. You're really missing out on Turn A. God, Turn A Gundam is so drat good. It's tied with Zeta for the best Gundam show, in my book. It's also the logical conclusion to the Gundam series. Also it's a good catharsis too given that it's one of the least depressing Gundam shows. Gundam X is pretty neat and has a really cool concept but Turn A is THE non-UC show to watch.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 14:35
|
|
|
So in ZZ Leina is still alive and hanging out with Sayla of all people?  I feel like I've missed an episode somewhere.Also, who let Beecha be in charge of, well, anything? Edit: Oh gently caress, Moon-Moon people are back, kill me now. Sakurazuka fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Feb 15, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 15:20
|
|
|
jellycat posted:Wait until you get to Victory! Kamille does have it really rough, though. Setsuna from 00 has it very rough as well, and he can watch that one. He starts the show with PTSD from the prologue and you get a glimpse in to exactly what cemented that about 5 episodes in that is pretty horrifying. He doesn't suffer as much over the course of the actual series as Uso, maybe not even as much as Kamille - but his past is much more tragic than either of those characters and he's more hosed up psychologically than either of them because of it. His show is pretty happy on the whole, but you really have to feel bad for the guy regardless. tsob fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Feb 15, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 17:53
|
|
|
And then there's Shinn Asuka.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 18:08
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:And then there's Shinn Asuka. He asked about main characters. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 18:12
|
|
|
00 is pretty much the whole "troubled teenager pilots a gundam" taken literally for every pilot they have.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 18:25
|
|
|
Midjack posted:He asked about main characters. Hey, I challenge you to think of many things more traumatic than Jesus scheduling his Second Coming specifically to remove your protagonist status.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 18:26
|
|
|
It stinks that NikkolasKing has eyesight problems and can't do subs. I've already gushed about Turn A and how great it is, but I also wish he could watch ZZ, just because I'm curious what his reaction would be. ZZ is one of the most polarizing Gundam series in existence. I don't think it's completely terrible, but it's definitely very flawed. The enormous tonal shifts from dark and depressing Zeta to goofy comedy ZZ to dark and depressing ZZ are jarring as hell.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 18:26
|
|
|
Midjack posted:He asked about main characters.  By and large it's hard to get more depressing than Zeta or Victory, mostly Victory because people get vaporized by beam sabers when they're out of the cockpit. Had nightmares about that one!
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 18:28
|
|
|
Zedd posted:00 is pretty much the whole "troubled teenager pilots a gundam" taken literally for every pilot they have. Oddly enough, most of the pilots aren't teens. Setsuna (16), Allelujah (19) and Soma Pieres (18) are the only ones that are I think. Tieria could be, but he has no listed age due to his nature as an Innovade so it's hard to really say. He doesn't act like one though. Lockon is in his mid 20's. Even then, Allelujah's 20th birthday happens around about episode 8 or 10 in the show. I don't think there's any of them are teenagers by the second season given the time skip. tsob fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Feb 15, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 18:38
|
|
|
So, it's probably the most "lol, no" thing in the world, but Moonphase is currently listing G-Reko as maybe airing this Spring. Everyone else I've spoken to basically agrees that it's not happening, especially since they're likely announcing the fact that its being animated at all this Spring at that upcoming Gundam event, but still.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 18:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 09:13 |
|
|
Zorak posted:So, it's probably the most "lol, no" thing in the world, but Moonphase is currently listing G-Reko as maybe airing this Spring. Everyone else I've spoken to basically agrees that it's not happening, especially since they're likely announcing the fact that its being animated at all this Spring at that upcoming Gundam event, but still. If Tomino bursts onstage doing a new dance, we'll know
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2014 18:51
|
|