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Yep, at the end of the day it's more clear. Just put the chances of a S2 beating a S1, another S2, and a S3.
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Feb 14, 2014 01:54
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Turin Turambar posted:Yep, at the end of the day it's more clear. Just put the chances of a S2 beating a S1, another S2, and a S3. Practicality was never considered while we were making the formulas in irc. You can just use anydice for that.
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Feb 14, 2014 14:45
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Nuclearmonkee posted:Practicality was never considered while we were making the formulas in irc. You can just use anydice for that. Change the thread title to "Dominions 4: Practicality was never considered." There's really a much simpler formula that I discovered: If Pretender (P) has Astral (S) of >0 but <9, then make new Pretender. Smerdyakov fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Feb 14, 2014 |
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Feb 14, 2014 17:16
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Just started playing LA for the first time and it seems Indies are way tougher. Is it normal to expect to spend a couple turns recruiting before expanding in LA? I'm the Pretender in a Disciple game as LA Marignon (so no Awake god unit) and in my test SP games I either needed 3 turns worth of Pikeneers or Royal Guard to beat a simple 30 unit Heavy Inf / Militia / Xbow stack. Is this just how LA goes or am I doing something horribly wrong?
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Feb 14, 2014 18:33
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MagnumOpus posted:LA Marignon MagnumOpus posted:horribly wrong? Yes. Saying that you should probably have a couple of guys right at the front as sacrificial arrow catchers who run back (guard commander orders?) so you get maximum crossbowshooting time on the indeps. There was a really good post on dom3 scripting somewhere but I can't find it now, I think it was made by lilli.
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Feb 14, 2014 18:44
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Smerdyakov posted:Change the thread title to "Dominions 4: Practicality was never considered." Nice one. Any comments about the Void Gate of MA/LA R'lyeh? Does the summons you win are good enough to justify the investment in mages and risk involved? Any tricks to improve your chances?
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Feb 14, 2014 19:22
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StoryTime posted:2: Use the brushes, but create 2 different views of the map image. One should be zoomed in less, so you can see your changes in the general area you're working on. The second one that you use to actually click on with the brush, should be zoomed way in, so you don't need super accurate mouse work to hit just a single pixel. Brushes will be quicker, but you'll be constantly overwriting existing image data, making mistakes harder to fix. Everything's in layers already - that image is actually five separate visible layers in GIMP (along with another four layers used during terrain generation and a pair of layer masks). Creating custom brushes actually works out pretty well, other than one thing: If I resize the brush at all from the size I created it at, it ends up with grey and black pixels around the edges from scaling. This is frustrating.
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Feb 14, 2014 21:49
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Kenlon posted:Everything's in layers already - that image is actually five separate visible layers in GIMP (along with another four layers used during terrain generation and a pair of layer masks). Creating custom brushes actually works out pretty well, other than one thing: If I resize the brush at all from the size I created it at, it ends up with grey and black pixels around the edges from scaling. Okay, I can see you have it figured out, it's just the GIMP brushes that are the actual problem. To tell you the truth, I never really got the hang of those either. My understanding of how brushes should work originates from Deluxe Paint III for the Amiga, and the GIMP brushes are something else. I shot you a PM, perhaps we can figure something out. I mean, it should be trivial to create an image of a map with an image manipulation program. Even when a GNU is involved.
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Feb 14, 2014 23:22
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StoryTime posted:Okay, I can see you have it figured out, it's just the GIMP brushes that are the actual problem. To tell you the truth, I never really got the hang of those either. My understanding of how brushes should work originates from Deluxe Paint III for the Amiga, and the GIMP brushes are something else. I shot you a PM, perhaps we can figure something out. I mean, it should be trivial to create an image of a map with an image manipulation program. Even when a GNU is involved. More specifically, it's how they react to being scaled. This means I can't be as lazy as I would be otherwise, and need to create more hill/mountain/tree brushes to mix together. It's entirely workable, though, and once I have those I can use them on other maps.
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Feb 14, 2014 23:42
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Kenlon posted:More specifically, it's how they react to being scaled. This means I can't be as lazy as I would be otherwise, and need to create more hill/mountain/tree brushes to mix together. It's entirely workable, though, and once I have those I can use them on other maps. Sounds good. I just thought this was going kinda off topic, so why not switch over to PM. If you figure out a good method, be sure to tell me about it.
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Feb 14, 2014 23:54
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MagnumOpus posted:Just started playing LA for the first time and it seems Indies are way tougher. Is it normal to expect to spend a couple turns recruiting before expanding in LA? Marignon is a really good nation in LA, so I hope you have a good one. @Void Gate chat - anywhere between loving amazing Vastnesses and total garbage, even with the Starspawn priests. I think it depends on your Luck score, usually a bit of a dump stat for MA Rlyeh especially (LA is a bit weird and I'm really not sure how to play it), and now that being caught on other planes is more lethal (back in the day you'd just script Returning and probably be fine), I have no idea how cost-effective it is. jBrereton fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Feb 15, 2014 |
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Feb 15, 2014 00:15
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I know I've only gotten one Vastness in the MP game I'm playing them in and I've had a dude in there since basically turn 2 with Luck 3. :I also got one of my hero starspawns and he summoned the vastness than vanished. A few turns ago I saw him kill a horror in a fight in Elsewhere or wherever it is but he still hasn't popped back up at my capital, it seems. 
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Feb 15, 2014 00:37
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jBrereton posted:In short, can be. It's probably turn four before you get a really solid second expansion force on anyone but like Ulm and Man (more crossbows, just stack the crossbows always). Not having any units with shields was a surprise I didn't think of when looking over their unit list in the manual. I've had luck with Royal Guards in SP it just feels non-optimal to have to wait a couple turns before capping the first indies. Once the economy gets going though those Royal Guards are murder machines. Now I just need to figure out how to use all their different mages together. I love the Sailing mages for moving troops around. I just wish I could put my Goetics on the boat too. I assume the typical strat is rush Evo 5 and Communion a Goetic Master up for Falling Fires?
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Feb 15, 2014 00:44
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Having just picked up Dom4 after a couple-year Dom3 hiatus, what's the general opinion on Yomi and Shinuyama in 4?
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Feb 15, 2014 03:03
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Now that I'm getting more familiar with the game, I want to get more familiar with super-combatants. I usually hear about Golems and Tartarians being used, is there a specific reason for that? Ivy Kings look like good choices, (resists crushing/piercing damage, never tires, lots of hit points, good nature magic for personal buffs, big enough to use trampling items), and Sleepers look very economical and powerful. Are there any other go-tos, preferably non-undead/demon ones? Now, I only play singleplayer, so this probably won't ever matter, but I'm curious; what are some of the main ways of taking down enemy SC's? Or more specifically, what sort of things should I protect against? Oh, on a tangential note; if a unit with immortality/extra lives "dies", does it lose its items when it's reborn?
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Feb 15, 2014 03:04
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Jabarto posted:Now that I'm getting more familiar with the game, I want to get more familiar with super-combatants. I usually hear about Golems and Tartarians being used, is there a specific reason for that? Ivy Kings look like good choices, (resists crushing/piercing damage, never tires, lots of hit points, good nature magic for personal buffs, big enough to use trampling items), and Sleepers look very economical and powerful. Are there any other go-tos, preferably non-undead/demon ones? As far as killing SCs goes, the trick is to look at what they have built and throw whatever they are weak against at them. Are they lacking elemental resistance to something you have mages for? Spam single target high damage spells like incinerate at them. Do they have low level Astral? Magic duel them. Do they have low-medium magic resist? Spam save or die spells like soul slay. Do they have no excess reinvigoration? Spam fatiguing spells drain life/standards of the damned/heat or cold auras or battlefield enchantments/rigor mortis etc. Do they have low defense and high prot? Get some cheap thugs with moderate attack and give them ap/an weapons. Do they have low prot and high defense? Swarm them with small/multi attacking units with quickness (-2 defense for each successive attack) mixed with a few heavy hitters. Usually unless its a top tier chassis stacked with artifacts they are going to have one or two weaknesses, and if they are stacked with artifacts all that means is you just triple the number of thugs with ap/an weapons and/or mages you are sending. Ivy kings and sleepers aren't so good as SC's because of their lower hp, a few mages turn up cast a few damage spells and your 50-70 gem investment is gone. For instance incinerate does 18+ AN damage for 20 fatigue, Frozen heart deals 10+ AN damage for 20 Fatigue and any W1 mage can cast it, thunderstrike deals 26+ AN damage. Applebee123 fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Feb 15, 2014 |
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Feb 15, 2014 03:35
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A dozen N1s can dust to dust them. Stellar Cascades with S2s work as well.
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Feb 15, 2014 03:43
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I downloading this game right now because I'm a huge grognard. Does anyone have some advice for good game settings or nations to learn with? I saw in the OP that I shouldn't make the map too big and that giants are decent learners. Any other advice? I have no experience with the series other than reading a few LP's from DOM 3
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Feb 15, 2014 05:05
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Jabarto posted:Now that I'm getting more familiar with the game, I want to get more familiar with super-combatants. I usually hear about Golems and Tartarians being used, is there a specific reason for that? Ivy Kings look like good choices, (resists crushing/piercing damage, never tires, lots of hit points, good nature magic for personal buffs, big enough to use trampling items), and Sleepers look very economical and powerful. Are there any other go-tos, preferably non-undead/demon ones? Tarts are still most likely to be the "best" SCs, but Dom4 has a lot more variety than 3 and the line between thug and SC is somewhat more blurry. I mostly have experience getting my poo poo wrecked by other people's SCs and thugs so my experience may be a bit limited, but there are really lots of options* for everyone. What seems more prevalent now is that you have units that can act as SCs in certain circumstances and against certain opponents. HP is important, but if you give your commander the correct elemental resists+high protection+regen, almost any unit that won't be one-shotted can potentially be an SC. There's not a general SC anymore--pretty much every school has high single target damage/kill/control/fatigue out spells and it's impossible to protect against all of them. Most games I've played/am playing that are still competitive haven't had a clearly defined SC phase, in part because there are so many counters. In general, your best bet to defeating an SC lies in the element of surprise--if you can show up with commanders/items/units that are outside of your national paths, the odds are that the SC won't be geared to counter them. *Unless you live underwater. Smerdyakov fucked around with this message at 10:10 on Feb 15, 2014 |
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Feb 15, 2014 10:05
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Chomp8645 posted:I downloading this game right now because I'm a huge grognard.
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Feb 15, 2014 14:40
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jBrereton posted:Small map like Silent Seas, and Middle Era Tien Chi is a great nation to learn with. A lot of troops of various kinds, broad mages, including Astral mages you can add to a communinion to boost up. This is not bad but I think that it's best to just choose a nation that you really like the fluff. Like, it's all well and good to learn mechanics as fantasy china but if you really love invisible werewolf Vikings then you should play as them even if you don't learn as much initial because you'll have more fun and you'll still learn a ton. Once you have a nation where you really like the fluff picked out then go on IRC or post here and ask for strategies and folks will give you ideas.
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Feb 15, 2014 16:07
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jBrereton posted:Small map like Silent Seas, and Middle Era Tien Chi is a great nation to learn with. A lot of troops of various kinds, broad mages, including Astral mages you can add to a communinion to boost up. builds character posted:This is not bad but I think that it's best to just choose a nation that you really like the fluff. Like, it's all well and good to learn mechanics as fantasy china but if you really love invisible werewolf Vikings then you should play as them even if you don't learn as much initial because you'll have more fun and you'll still learn a ton. Once you have a nation where you really like the fluff picked out then go on IRC or post here and ask for strategies and folks will give you ideas. That's for the advice guys. I spent a few hours last night tooling around as Man, I'll probably continue with them for now. I don't really know how communion works so I'll try figure that out. I can tell I have a whole lot to learn. Until I read the description of castles/fortresses more closely I thought they were nothing more than defensive structures so I didn't start building any until at least turn 12, wondering the whole time why it was so hard to get troops anywhere but my capital  . I'll hop in to IRC for advice later, this game is so deep I think it's going to take a few hours just to know what my questions are.I love it. I can't wait to get into my first multiplayer match and GG myself at Pretender creation.
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Feb 15, 2014 17:30
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Chomp8645 posted:That's for the advice guys. I spent a few hours last night tooling around as Man, I'll probably continue with them for now. I don't really know how communion works so I'll try figure that out. LA Man or MA Man? Also, just jump right into a game for new players. It's the very best way to learn.
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Feb 15, 2014 17:51
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builds character posted:LA Man or MA Man? Also, just jump right into a game for new players. It's the very best way to learn. MA. I figured that if there was any "standard" age it would probably the middle one! Also I didn't know there were games just for new players. I'll check it out.
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Feb 15, 2014 18:09
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Chomp8645 posted:MA. I figured that if there was any "standard" age it would probably the middle one! Also I didn't know there were games just for new players. I'll check it out.
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Feb 15, 2014 18:17
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Yeah, I honestly feel like SCs need a bit of a buff right now, since it seems highly uneconomical to really ever bother stacking things on a guy. It's just too easy for any path, even low level mages, to off an SC with fairly minimal effort when you could achieve the same effect with a few cheap thugs/mages and none of the cost. I'm not sure what's needed to make SCs a bit more viable (resists? more hp? ability to shrug off 1hitKOs?) but definitely they've been lackluster in the games I've played so far, to the point where I don't even really think much about them since a counter is probably already in my back pocket somewhere assuming I even really encounter the situation.
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Feb 15, 2014 18:26
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I'm sure Awesome Endgame will herald the return of SCs as a viable endgame strategy.
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Feb 15, 2014 19:38
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Posting proof of goondom for GGS. I want to play some newb games!
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Feb 15, 2014 20:33
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Waterworld is somehow getting more insane by the day. I just noticed I only have one spy, presumably because those weird tent-owners from LA Atlantis can only be recruited on land, which our map doesn't have. Also those insanity spreading weirdos in the deep sea sit directly next to me but I can't reach them. Apparently for Dom4 we're sitting on opposing sites of impassable mountains or something. To be clear, the connections between provinces are there, just perpetually closed. Well, the game is getting more interesting by the day. 
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Feb 15, 2014 20:58
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Libluini posted:Waterworld is somehow getting more insane by the day. I just noticed I only have one spy, presumably because those weird tent-owners from LA Atlantis can only be recruited on land, which our map doesn't have. Also those insanity spreading weirdos in the deep sea sit directly next to me but I can't reach them. Apparently for Dom4 we're sitting on opposing sites of impassable mountains or something. Oh, so you're at the mountains of madness?
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Feb 15, 2014 21:03
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Libluini posted:Waterworld is somehow getting more insane by the day. I just noticed I only have one spy, presumably because those weird tent-owners from LA Atlantis can only be recruited on land, which our map doesn't have. Also those insanity spreading weirdos in the deep sea sit directly next to me but I can't reach them. Apparently for Dom4 we're sitting on opposing sites of impassable mountains or something.
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Feb 15, 2014 21:07
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Libluini posted:To be clear, the connections between provinces are there, just perpetually closed. Well, the game is getting more interesting by the day. My guess is it's because you/him/both took Cold 3 scales for the points since temperature doesn't matter underwater, so your underwater mountain passes are permanently blocked by underwater snow.
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Feb 15, 2014 21:08
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Ilanin posted:My guess is it's because you/him/both took Cold 3 scales for the points since temperature doesn't matter underwater, so your underwater mountain passes are permanently blocked by underwater snow. Sadly, no. I took Heat 3 scales. Maybe he took Heat 3, too and the passes are blocked by hot steam? The mountains of madness seem to be the most likely explanation right now.   It looks like this. No way in or out, at least until someone learns that army-teleportation spell at level 9 or something. jBrereton posted:Any way you can link the map? I'm kinda intrigued by this. I can do better, I can show our map to everyone:  100% pure water.
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Feb 15, 2014 21:29
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Libluini posted:Sadly, no. I took Heat 3 scales. Maybe he took Heat 3, too and the passes are blocked by hot steam? The mountains of madness seem to be the most likely explanation right now. Doesn't matter what scales either of us took; mountain passes are only passable when both provinces have positive heat scales and deep sea provinces never have any heat scales. Welcome to the mountains of madness
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Feb 15, 2014 22:11
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There should be a sea to sea province teleport spell.
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Feb 15, 2014 22:13
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Man is a cool nation but I will always recommend Pythium as the Nation of Now and Forever. Some of the things that make Pythium  include:-Romanized soldiers who carry tower shields and throw javelins -Powerful mages which can throw evocations and poo poo without a communion but also have some measure of versatility -Bar-none the best communion communicants in the entire videogam if you decide you want to try your hand at it (and kill everyone in the process) -National spells which give you access to a variety of Angels which can fly around terrorizing enemy lands or backing up your armies -and uh Hydras... which are some sort of multi-headed creature... that is pretty cool I guess, right?
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Feb 15, 2014 22:16
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Torrannor posted:There should be a sea to sea province teleport spell. 
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Feb 15, 2014 22:17
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Neruz posted:Doesn't matter what scales either of us took; mountain passes are only passable when both provinces have positive heat scales and deep sea provinces never have any heat scales. At least I'm safe from a two-front war for now. 
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Feb 15, 2014 22:25
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It looks like the next thing on my list is to figure out how the hell sieges work. I was doing alright against the AI until my main (enormous) army with my pretender spent at least 10 turns trying to bash down a castle gate with seemingly no progress, while in the mean time Caelum was able to burst into my fortress in something like four turns. Are there siege weapons or spells I need to acquire to get past fortifications faster? If so how do I get them? I couldn't see anything obvious as middle age Man.
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Feb 15, 2014 22:28
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Chomp8645 posted:It looks like the next thing on my list is to figure out how the hell sieges work. I was doing alright against the AI until my main (enormous) army with my pretender spent at least 10 turns trying to bash down a castle gate with seemingly no progress, while in the mean time Caelum was able to burst into my fortress in something like four turns. Uh, funny you should say that. All of Caelum's troops fly which gives +1 siege strength (effectively doubling it for a human strengthed man). The AI also kicks out hordes of men since it is given huge bonuses to make up for being retarded, which makes it easy to be overrun in a human wave. Ideally you want to smash the enemy in the field, take their provinces, and siege their forts, and then go about tearing them down and storming them afterward (unless it is something easy like a palisade maybe).
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Feb 15, 2014 22:33
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