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evol262 posted:Is NetworkManager running? I figured it out, apparently both NetworkManager and dhcpcd were running as services, so they were conflicting. Man, Arch is pretty slick, I'm lovin' it.
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Feb 20, 2014 18:59
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QPZIL posted:I figured it out, apparently both NetworkManager and dhcpcd were running as services, so they were conflicting. Man, Arch is pretty slick, I'm lovin' it. I'll never understand this Stockholm Syndrome. "I just installed this distro and it's immediately so badly configured that networking doesn't work at all. Slick. I'm lovin' it." :archlinux:
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Feb 20, 2014 19:02
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evol262 posted:I'll never understand this Stockholm Syndrome. At least with Gentoo its not a default config issue, its a 'You are dumb and compiled your system like a retard. Try again.'
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Feb 20, 2014 19:13
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With Gentoo it's "You are dumb and installed the wrong distro like a retard. Try again."
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Feb 20, 2014 19:15
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spankmeister posted:With Gentoo it's "You are dumb and installed the wrong distro like a retard. Try again." That was actually my reaction. I got halfway through and said 'gently caress this, too much effort'. Now I use Kubuntu like a retard 
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Feb 20, 2014 19:27
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evol262 posted:I'll never understand this Stockholm Syndrome. obligatory link to funroll loops
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Feb 20, 2014 20:04
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Suspicious Dish posted:obligatory link to funroll loops I was an active Gentoo user in 2002. 
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Feb 20, 2014 20:21
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Arch is less "badly configured" and more "not configured at all". This of course results in a pretty terrible user experience if you want to do anything other than just log in to a text console. I don't really ever recommend Arch to folks, even though I use it. If you plan to just install one of the standard full blown desktop environments, you're better off installing a distro that has that environment as it's default. That way, everything plays nice and it's configured correctly right from the start.
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Feb 20, 2014 20:33
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Xik posted:Arch is less "badly configured" and more "not configured at all". This of course results in a pretty terrible user experience if you want to do anything other than just log in to a text console. I guess we'll have to disagree. Slack has this problem as well, but even Gentoo fixed NetworkManager+dhclient/dhcpcd conflicts years ago.
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Feb 20, 2014 20:49
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Well to be fair it was my own fault. When I installed the base system, I enabled dhcpcd as a service, then after I installed Cinnamon, I enabled NetworkManager as a service. Totally my own doing. But hey, I figured out my mistake and now I'm happy with a great working system. I wouldn't recommend Arch to anyone that doesn't know Linux well, but it's a happy medium between the customization of compiling your own distro and having everything handed to you a la Ubuntu.
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Feb 20, 2014 21:29
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RFC2324 posted:That was actually my reaction. I got halfway through and said 'gently caress this, too much effort'. High five, Kubuntu buddy  KDE 4.11 (Kubuntu 13.10) and 4.12 (14.04, still in development) are really good.
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Feb 20, 2014 21:33
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QPZIL posted:having everything handed to you a la Ubuntu. This is intentional. I can fix problems with my distro, but I don't want to. I want it to "hand things to me" and configure things to make it easier for me to do the work that actually matters.
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Feb 20, 2014 21:33
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evol262 posted:This is intentional. I can fix problems with my distro, but I don't want to. I want it to "hand things to me" and configure things to make it easier for me to do the work that actually matters. Sure, there's nothing wrong with that at all. I'm not knocking it by any means. Different strokes for different folks.
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Feb 20, 2014 22:33
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I just tossed Ubuntu on an old laptop, but I'd like something a bit lighter. How's lubuntu?
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Feb 21, 2014 00:28
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Fedora XFCE 4 lyfe. But seriously it does everything I need aka not getting in the way of Chrome.
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Feb 21, 2014 00:43
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evol262 posted:I was an active Gentoo user in 2002.
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Feb 21, 2014 02:24
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waffle iron posted:Fedora XFCE 4 lyfe. Chrome and xchat are the bulk of what I'll be doing, some sort of office software would be good too I guess
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Feb 21, 2014 03:16
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Lysidas posted:High five, Kubuntu buddy I still ruin my pants slightly using the desktop cube with a touch screen every time. I'm just glad this isn't my work setup.
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Feb 21, 2014 08:02
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Captain Foo posted:I just tossed Ubuntu on an old laptop, but I'd like something a bit lighter. How's lubuntu? Xubuntu/Lubuntu Fedora Spin Xfce/LXDE are all good options.
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Feb 21, 2014 12:25
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I've got a Chef question and was told this might be a good place to ask it. Chef doesn't have great support for complex questions like this. I've got a cookbook that installs our application. Part of the install is writing config files (XML) which are stored in the cookbook as erb templates. The problem is that our different environments will have different versions of the application installed, and the different versions have different configs (new fields, mostly), and the application breaks if it reads config fields that shouldn't be there for that version. So it seems like in order to have a recipe that works for any version of the application I need a way to have multiple versions of the templates. Ideally, if I could pull the erb templates from SVN (where the application installer and non-templated configs come from), I wouldn't need to worry about it. Unfortunately, I can't find a way to have Chef use an external file as the template source during a run. Is there a way to do this? I'm on Windows, but that shouldn't matter for this task.
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Feb 21, 2014 23:02
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I don't know about the cookbooks, but why is the application not standardised?
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Feb 21, 2014 23:10
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Clanpot Shake posted:I've got a Chef question and was told this might be a good place to ask it. Chef doesn't have great support for complex questions like this. Why can't you check out the files you need from the repo into your template directory?
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Feb 21, 2014 23:21
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Riso posted:I don't know about the cookbooks, but why is the application not standardised? evol262 posted:Why can't you check out the files you need from the repo into your template directory? The short answer is this doesn't work because what's in SVN changes fairly frequently and I don't want to clutter up chef with versions that aren't used past dev/QA. Pulling templates directly from SVN during a chef run solves this, I just need to find a way to do it. I should clarify that I'm pulling from a Releases folder from our SVN repo. We have a build server that compiles the code and handles version numbering, then commits the build back into SVN. The folder I'm pulling from has the installer, configs, and supporting files with none of the source code.
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Feb 22, 2014 00:30
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It sounds like you should just have 1 xml template file and use if/elseif statements in it that check attribute values. Just like the my.cnf.erb template from the mysql cookbook does. I am a chef noob though so I might be way off here.
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Feb 22, 2014 00:37
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I'm going to be replacing my motherboard with a different model. Are there going to be any issues with just plugging in the drive and crossing my fingers? I did a new Arch install not long ago after my SSD failed and I can't be assed doing it again. fstab uses UUID's and both boards are legacy BIOS boards, so I can't imagine grub caring. What about network? The new board actually has the same on-board Ethernet controller, but I'm sure there is other poo poo it cares about. CPU and GPU will remain the same, USB and SATA controllers will be different. On another note, hopefully the Intel USB 3.0 controller in the new board will actually be supported this time, it will be a novelty to actually use the USB 3 ports on my machine. The piece of poo poo Etron controller I have on this one makes Linux give me the finger and Windows BSOD when the drivers are installed.
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Feb 24, 2014 04:51
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Xik posted:I'm going to be replacing my motherboard with a different model. Are there going to be any issues with just plugging in the drive and crossing my fingers? I did a new Arch install not long ago after my SSD failed and I can't be assed doing it again. Which method are you using to configure the network? IIRC NetworkManager identifies different interfaces by MAC address, so you may have to tweak those settings once booted. Other than that, you should be good to go. Plug it in and cross your fingers  On a semi-related note, how about a new thread title? The Linux Thread: Installed Arch, can't be assed to do it again
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Feb 24, 2014 05:01
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SamDabbers posted:Which method are you using to configure the network? IIRC NetworkManager identifies different interfaces by MAC address, so you may have to tweak those settings once booted. Other than that, you should be good to go. Plug it in and cross your fingers I just let dhcpcd do all the network magic. Is that going to work for or against me in this situation? SamDabbers posted:On a semi-related note, how about a new thread title? I have a confession. After my SSD got RMA'd and I was sent a brand new drive, I had it just sitting in my draw for like a month because I honestly could not be bothered reinstalling Arch. I think my partial backup solution is to blame for that. My home drive is backed up to a file server so when the SSD failed I booted up Windows from a HDD (which I use to game on every now and then), installed cygwin and restored my backup with rsync. I guess when I say I "use" Linux, what I really mean is that I use Firefox, Thunderbird and Emacs.  I suppose this is a good time to ask about backup solutions. Do any of you do full drive backups on your personal devices? I considered it, but I couldn't really see the point. Apart from the above situation when I was to lazy to do a reinstall, I figured making a backup of personal data and config files is enough. Also, despite having copies on three difference storage devices in different machines, I have no off-site backups. I know this is a disaster waiting to happen, but I haven't come up with a decent solution yet. I'm primarily concerned about having my ssh keys, private gpg keys and gpg encrypted password files all on someone else's machine (in the ~cloud~). If I use an encrypted service, I would need to keep a copy of those private keys safe at a third location so I could actually restore the backup. What backup solutions do ya'll use?
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Feb 24, 2014 05:41
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Xik posted:I just let dhcpcd do all the network magic. Is that going to work for or against me in this situation? You may need to update the systemd service to use the new interface's device name if it isn't the same as your previous adapter. Xik posted:I have a confession. After my SSD got RMA'd and I was sent a brand new drive, I had it just sitting in my draw for like a month because I honestly could not be bothered reinstalling Arch. I spent two whole 8-hour days tinkering with Arch on a new laptop before deciding I didn't want to dick with my OS all the time on a machine intended for getting work done, and installed Debian instead. Even fiddling with apt pinning and the testing/unstable repos it was still less painful to get things set up than with Arch. It turns out that having sensible defaults out of the box is useful. I will say though, that Arch's wiki is fantastic for troubleshooting and deciding when/how to deviate from those defaults. Xik posted:I think my partial backup solution is to blame for that. My home drive is backed up to a file server so when the SSD failed I booted up Windows from a HDD (which I use to game on every now and then), installed cygwin and restored my backup with rsync. I guess when I say I "use" Linux, what I really mean is that I use Firefox, Thunderbird and Emacs. If you don't want to take full drive images on your Linux systems, one option is to maintain a Vagrant, chef-solo, or puppet script so you can easily bring up the same environment and just restore your /home partition. As for backing up data, I've found rdiff-backup to be useful. You could also try duplicity which will encrypt your backups with gpg before uploading them to wherever. As for backing up the keys, you could add a flash drive to your physical keychain or wallet and carry it with you. SamDabbers fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Feb 24, 2014 |
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Feb 24, 2014 06:04
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Vagrant isn't really appropriate, chef and puppet are overly involved unless you know ruby or love declarative languages. Salt solo or ansible might work. Keep /home backed up (or on NFS). Dump a list of packages you have installed. Pipe it into pacman or whatever to reinstall them when you reinstall. Use etckeeper or configure essential services with salt or whatever. That's all you really need for a simple home setup.
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Feb 24, 2014 06:51
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SamDabbers posted:You may need to update the systemd service to use the new interface's device name if it isn't the same as your previous adapter. If that's the only thing I'll have to worry about with the mobo replacement, I'll be pretty happy. Thanks Sam. SamDabbers posted:I spent two whole 8-hour days tinkering with Arch on a new laptop before deciding I didn't want to dick with my OS all the time on a machine intended for getting work done, and installed Debian instead. Even fiddling with apt pinning and the testing/unstable repos it was still less painful to get things set up than with Arch. It turns out that having sensible defaults out of the box is useful. I will say though, that Arch's wiki is fantastic for troubleshooting and deciding when/how to deviate from those defaults. The Arch wiki is pretty amazing. Even before I moved to Arch I used it. It's weird that Debian doesn't have an equally amazing wiki since I'm sure the install base of Debain is order of magnitudes more then Arch. Although I suppose you could make the argument that Debian is easier to configure and use, thus, has less need for it. SamDabbers posted:If you don't want to take full drive images on your Linux systems, one option is to maintain a Vagrant, chef-solo, or puppet script so you can easily bring up the same environment and just restore your /home partition. As for backing up data, I've found rdiff-backup to be useful. You could also try duplicity which will encrypt your backups with gpg before uploading them to wherever. As for backing up the keys, you could add a flash drive to your physical keychain or wallet and carry it with you. Learning and setting up those configuration management solutions would probably be more effort then just reinstalling from scratch when drive failures happen. I think I really like the idea of just using gpg to encrypt backups and then keeping a copy of my private keys on my physical keychain. Seems like a nice easy solution. I would just have to make sure to test the off-site backups and that the USB device hasn't failed every now and then. Oh, and I guess if there is ever a fire in my house while I'm still in it I better make sure I grab my keys! evol262 posted:Vagrant isn't really appropriate, chef and puppet are overly involved unless you know ruby or love declarative languages. Salt solo or ansible might work. Yeah, I think I would probably just be fine with keeping a text file of packages along with my dotfiles. /home is already backed up using rysnc to an NFS share.
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Feb 24, 2014 07:16
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If you are feeling too lazy to install Arch , give something like ArchBang a go.
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Feb 24, 2014 11:57
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There's a user friendly, preconfigured variant of Arch called Manjaro.
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Feb 24, 2014 18:26
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I appreciate the input but those have everything pre-configured and pre-installed, including their own desktop environments. If I wanted that, I probably wouldn't be using Arch. Debian or Fedora, or something more stable and established would be my preferred option. It's ultimately less effort to install something like Arch and configure it then it is to wrestle an existing pre-configured distro to how I want it. Except maybe a minimal Debian base install, that has the best of both worlds. I'm sure there is a reason I'm not just using that .
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Feb 24, 2014 18:49
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Bah, just store everything in Docker containers and then push those to a remote location.
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Feb 24, 2014 18:52
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JHVH-1 posted:Bah, just store everything in Docker containers and then push those to a remote location. Yeah. Who needs SElinux? And bother using LXC when you an use a solution which orphans and zombies children left and right because there's no real init? Docker's cool and all, but it's not appropriate for many, many things.
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Feb 24, 2014 19:38
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I'm not sure why I'm still using Arch. It took 48 hours just to get it to even install on my new laptop, after which everything managed to slowly break over 2 weeks (touchpad stopped working right, root disk no longer detected by initrd, various other issues). Granted, this is probably more the fault of terribly broken hardware that needs special Windows pseudo-firmware to work correctly, but Fedora managed to boot on the first try and pretty much just works, though the touchpad still has issues. Networking is actually really easy to setup though, not sure why people complain about that.
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Feb 24, 2014 20:07
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I use Arch whenever I'm working on something kernel related, the "simplicity" is exactly what I want because I'm too dumb and lazy to deal with custom patches to a RHEL kernel. I can't imagine using it on a laptop. Good for you for trying but no one will blame you for using something else.
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Feb 24, 2014 20:17
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Ninja Rope posted:I use Arch whenever I'm working on something kernel related, the "simplicity" is exactly what I want because I'm too dumb and lazy to deal with custom patches to a RHEL kernel. I can't imagine using it on a laptop. Good for you for trying but no one will blame you for using something else. RHEL/Fedora can use upstream kernels just fine. Or grab the kernel SRPM. The patches are all included, and listed (in order of application) in the specfile. Not that you should have to, but laziness shouldn't be a factor when you can extract it, add another patch, and "rpmbuild -bb" your way to a "custom patches + your patch RHEL kernel" if you actually need something to work on RHEL.
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Feb 24, 2014 20:39
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The simplicity is also good if you don't use a major DE and don't want to spend the time ripping all of GNOME/KDE out of other distros. Because I'm weird and launch awesome using startx+xinitrc, even though the feature I used it for (dynamic tag creation with Shifty) doesn't work on the current version and awesome 3.4 packages are too old to be in ARM.
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Feb 24, 2014 21:16
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scroogle nmaps posted:The simplicity is also good if you don't use a major DE and don't want to spend the time ripping all of GNOME/KDE out of other distros. Please don't be serious. Fedora, CentOS, Debian, and Ubuntu all support some kind of "minimal" install which lets you pick and choose exactly what you want to install. Unless you're picking CrunchBang, Fedora $something Remix, or other which is designed to come with a specific DE. I run Fedora. The only environments I have installed are Xmonad or Awesome, depending on whether it's desktop or laptop. I didn't ahve to "rip anything" out. I just didn't install it to begin with. Which is literally a checkbox.
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Feb 24, 2014 21:26
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