|
 That's all there is to say about that. 
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 19:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 08:04 |
|
|
I'm wrong myself, actually, the Latin Empire having been established in 1204 after all. But considering that that hasn't actually happened the objection is moot anyway. Generally speaking, our Venice seems to be insignificant compared to OTL Venice. As an aside, I wish CKII had a more dynamic economic development system, them developers ought'ta read Pirenne. Whom, if he is to be believed, suggests that the big time medieval Jewish money lenders that so influence our finances were largely a myth.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 20:01
|
|
|
 Pax Romana!
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 20:15
|
|
|
Flesnolk posted:
  Indeed. If we can take Venice, we should be able to seize most of the trade in the Mediterranean. It will also give us the manpower and territory we so desperately need to form the Legions once more. We also will be needing allies if we want to destroy the...whoever's to the east of us, I can't keep track of who's in charge.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 20:16
|
|
|
New Byzantines Stay the course, see if we can't make the Black Sea a
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 20:40
|
|
|
Okay, since everyone's putting the icons in every post-- which actually helps make debates easier to follow, so don't stop doing that-- for actual votes let's start putting ##Vote for [FACTION] in them from now on, which should make counting votes slightly easier. (You don't need to vote again if you already voted, we'll figure out the earlier posts somehow). Also, depending on which faction wins there may or may not be a lightning round vote for members of that faction only about a policy decision.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 20:58
|
|
|
Vote for Old Romans
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 21:06
|
|
|
Vote for New Byzantines
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 21:11
|
|
|
YF-23 posted:You speak not for all Milvians, brother. As much as it is our holy duty to show our Papist brothers the light of Orthodoxy, it is necessary to reclaim our Anatolian provinces lost to the Turks. Our Great Empress, may her soul rest in peace, did a great many thing to weaken and destabilise the Mohhamedan kingdom. We have been picking up momentum as opportunities arose from this and started reclaiming our lands in the east. But that is a job currently half-done, and unless God himself presents us with a bridge with which to cross to Italy and then march to Rome, completing our eastern reconquests should remain our top priority.  We have many duties, and all must be fulfilled in the fullness of time. When our fellow senators are in accordance with our divine goals, then it is wisdom to encourage and stand with them. Let our priorities be judged by the Emperor when the time comes, and if the Almighty wishes to place Milvian goals in the hearts, minds and voices of other factions, who are we to argue against our own ambitions? Whilst I'm at it, I'd like to extend an olive branch to the wayward senators with papist sympathies: I propose we Restore the office of Apocrisiarius to bring the bishop of Rome back within the Imperial fold. We may need to provide a sizable escort, and we may need to be... insistent. But I'm sure you'd agree that formalising our relations once more with that individual are worth any such considerations.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 21:14
|
|
|
Latins/T.R.A.I.T.O.R.S. (or whatever we're called now) I have already said everything that needs to be said on the issue of my loyalies. You all know where my heart lies. forkis fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Feb 22, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 21:27
|
|
|
 Lord Windy is correct. All future Douxes should be members of the Imperial family.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 21:32
|
|
|
Milvians Healing the schism is like the most interesting thing you can do as the Byzantines.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 21:46
|
|
|
You can't go wrong with the Old Romans. And if we're talking about restoring glorious roman institutions, how about restoring the Praetorian Guard? It would just be a matter of granting that title to the varangians. Frionnel fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Feb 22, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 21:48
|
|
|
Vote for New Byzantines Let's grow our strength where it's most wise!
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 21:48
|
|
|
 ## Vote for Fraternalists I think it goes without saying we can agree with the cross platform idea of more soldiers in the standing army. Having a wealthy merchant republic in our hands definitely allows for more money to go into recruiting soldiers and building support facilities for that. Now onto business, while yes people have been proposing various ideas for expansion, I feel that our first priority must be the security of the Anatolian peninsula. Those occupied provinces need to go, as in we need to take them back and return them to the fold for the empire. Right now our main strategic are a of interest is concentrated around the Aegean, Black and Cilicia Seas, therefore it makes the most sense, for right now anyways (I know that many of you have designs and desires beyond those boundaries), to consolidate and concentrate in these areas. Specifically to build up enough and conquer enough to make sure we maintain complete and unquestioned dominance of this area. Under this ABC plan, we will should take the following actions: 1. Reconquer the areas of Asia Minor that have been taken by the Turks 2. Either through conquest, intrigue or marriage, bring Cilicia back into the fold. 3. Conquer the coastal areas Hashimid to complete our strategic encirclement of the Black Sea. 4. Slowly remove the influence of Genoease and Venetian merchants from our areas of the area by finding ways to remove their trade posts and or incorporate their provinces near us into the empire. Merchants under the righteous auspice of the Byzantine Empire should be the ones to profit from our regions. 5. Establish another merchant republic or two in the actual Mediterranean region. Not only will this open the door to more money for the empire, it will also ensure the merchants of Crimea aren't our sole source of a large amount of income. Furthermore, more merchant republics in our Empire competing against each other for money and influence amount themselves will spend less time trying to plot against the throne. Once we've secured our influence in these three areas, we'll have a solid foothold for expansion into any region we want. If we want to go towards the Holy Land, we can do that, if we want to go East, we can do that, if we want to take Egypt, we can do that, if we randomly want to go North we can do that. By consolidating and focusing in this prime region we give ourselves the means and ability to do so. More merchants means more money for the empire, which means more soldiers, more buildings and more resources for us to enact our plans. Vote Fraternalists, or if you're set on your faction, then support the ABC plan to give the Empire its needed security and resources!
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 21:55
|
|
|
Vote for Old Romans. Pax Romana and all that.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 21:57
|
|
|
Vote Old Romans
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 21:58
|
|
|
Vote for Old Romans We must continue to return the empire to the proper Theme System and reclaim the glories and territory of old.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 22:09
|
|
|
Sindai posted:
Mend it. This is my vote.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 22:13
|
|
|
Vote for Old Romans! Flesnolk posted:Also, ally with Kiev. We need close, strong allies, and the two Orthodox nations left in Europe should stick together. Maybe see if Hungary or Croatia could be persuaded too, though of course Croatia is rightfully our territory. Agreed. With an addendum to look for territorial opportunities in Sicily while we pick at the Turks bit by bit. Bro Dad fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Feb 22, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 22:19
|
|
|
Flesnolk posted:Also, ally with Kiev. We need close, strong allies, and the two Orthodox nations left in Europe should stick together. Maybe see if Hungary or Croatia could be persuaded too, though of course Croatia is rightfully our territory. What good is Kiev to us? We share a small border with them, but their center of power is far, far to the north of us and they have a whole different set of foes to grapple with. The Catholic states of Sicily, Croatia and Hungary are closer and much more useful allies to us, and would probably be even more inclined to help us out if we just accepted the Bishop of Rome and ended this schismatic business. It's not as if we've really let our precious Orthodoxy dictate foreign policy before now. Not one Milvian has spoken out in concern for the Orthodox Serbs, who have been subjugated by the Croats to our northwest. We conquered pagan Pecheneg and Crimean lands while Anatolian Christians still suffer at the hands of the Turk, and how many of my fellow Senators complained about that confusion of priorities? Look east, and you will see the Roman Catholics of Italy have done more to protect the Christians of the Levant that our Orthodoxy has!
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 22:46
|
|
|
Again, game-mechanics not Senate-chat:Sindai posted:Healing the schism is like the most interesting thing you can do as the Byzantines. As much as I'm an Old Roman rather than a Milvian... this is a true statement. Healing the Schism is an interesting game mechanic that you won't get to see as pretty much anyone save the Byzantines. We should do it if it's at all possible. ....of course, doing it pretty much necessitates taking several important steps towards the restoration of the Empire, too, which is a nice side benefit for us Old Romans.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 22:51
|
|
|
Rincewind posted:So here the douxes had the emperor in chains, totally under their power. They could have easily forced him to give up his crown and win the war right there. Instead, they did something way grosser.  Is this something that nobles actually did to each other at around this time period, or is this just another example of Paradox putting in more amusing events?
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 23:05
|
|
|
ChaosSamusX posted:
It's actually a uniquely Byzantine mechanic. And yeah, there's some justification for it. Check out Justinian.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 23:08
|
|
|
The Byzantines are somewhat remembered for their 'fun' ways of removing political opponents by disfiguring them in various ways rather than just straight up killing them.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 23:10
|
|
|
Vote Old Romans
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 23:11
|
|
|
DivineCoffeeBinge posted:It's actually a uniquely Byzantine mechanic. And yeah, there's some justification for it. Check out Justinian. Justinian II, the Slit-Nosed, is a prominent example of this sort of thing. Emperors are supposed to righteous and Godly and so forth, which of course means that their spiritual perfection is reflected in their physical perfection. It then logically follows that if a ruler is physically mutilated, he is also spiritually mutilated and is therefore not morally fit to rule. Blinding was pretty popular amongst the Byzantines, because aside from the above logic it also tended to really limit the personal independence of the person blinded- they'd need help just walking from Point A to Point B.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 23:14
|
|
|
A vote for the old Romans is a vote for
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 23:15
|
|
|
DivineCoffeeBinge posted:It's actually a uniquely Byzantine mechanic. And yeah, there's some justification for it. Check out Justinian. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_mutilation_in_Byzantine_culture It looks like it was a rare occurrence in the CKII timeframe (with no castration occurring within that period either). Still; strange political custom, regardless.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 23:17
|
|
|
Vote for Old Romans The Empire will rise again.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 23:26
|
|
|
Vote for Old Romans. Apologies for my lateness, fellow senators, though it seems there is finally cause to take with a faction.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 23:29
|
|
|
Vote For New Byzantines The West is overated.
|
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 23:30
|
|
|
Patter Song posted:Lord Windy is correct. All future Douxes should be members of the Imperial family. This is a really bad idea unless there's some relatives of the empress floating about without claims on the Imperial Throne.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2014 23:33
|
|
|
Sleep of Bronze posted:
Ummm, why isn't this spoken? I demand that you speak your dead language because I like the sound of it!
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2014 00:02
|
|
|
 Hey friends, here's a keen idea: let's move the capital to Korsun and find a local tutor for our heir! Maybe someone who could instill some good old ascetic, belt-tightening virtues. Unrelated note: how do we feel about icons?
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2014 00:04
|
|
|
Kellsterik posted:
I think it's strangely appropriate that the iconoclasts have a banner but no icon.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2014 00:06
|
|
|
Vote for the New Byzantines My fellow Senators, why change course when we've got a good thing going?
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2014 00:11
|
|
|
Vote for the New Byzantines Leave the West to the fractious Goth heretics. Why look there when the East is where our attention is needed? Time and time again, the greatest threats to civilization come out of the far East: the Huns, Vandals, Lombards, Scythians, Magyars, Pechenegs, Cumans, Turks... the list goes on and on. Why do they keep coming west one might ask? Could it be that there is a progressively more insidious threat pushing them westward each time? I thus propose that we solidify our position in Asia Minor and the Levant and continue our friendship with the Rus. When we are safe in the East, the West will undoubtedly still be there for the taking, lest Poseidon swallow it whole or some dumb poo poo like that. VVVVVV This good senator has the right of it. beefart fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Feb 23, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2014 00:41
|
|
beefart posted:
Another of our good Senators ask why we should ally with the fierce Rus of Kiev. They are busy in the frigid north, after all, far from the threat of the Turk. I propose that our alliance with Kiev would serve as a great wall, a barrier of the faithful to keep any further invaders from the east from surging over into Christian territory. One day, we may have to turn our eyes west, onto those that would raise their so-called "Pope" up so high. But until then, it is important that we protect those lands from the barbarian and the pagan, so that we might keep them safe. Being a glorious empire is not a matter of size and power, it is a matter of how that power is used.
|
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2014 00:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 08:04 |
|
|
My fellow Fraternalists do not take their mercantile interests far enough. Indeed, my fellow Senators do not take to the interests of power far enough! The Old Romans worship foolishly the old empire, and the Milvians to their god, and the TRAITORS to their god; the New Byzantines to their modernisation, the Komnenians to their (indeed illustrious) rulers, and the SPRQiots to their foolishness. Greater than all of these objects of adulation is the worship of coin! Wealth grants a greater connection to God than anything else; indeed, wealth is God, for it is wealth that funds the swords brought to bear against the infidel, and the prize that truly awaits after every conquest. Wealth subsidises peace with our peers. Wealth drives each and every institution, and each form of politick is simply an inefficient expression of its pursuit. Why is it that we do not shift away from these outdated systems, when better ones show off their bounty in the golden mosques of Aksum, in the gilded mountainhomes of Reykjavik, in our very own coffers? The Crimeans rightly revolt against us, for we impede their pursuit of wealth. We should not stifle these pursuits, but instead spread them fully to our entire empire! Turn each and every theme into its own merchant republic, and tax them until Constantinople itself collapses into the Bosphorus under the weight of countless riches! Glory to Money!
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2014 01:35
|
|