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khy posted:Stop persecuting me People like you are the reason I love this thread so much.  Also, buh, definitely think I've hit The Wall with Classic. It doesn't pose any sort of challenge now - running out of excuses to delay my shift over to Impossible.
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Feb 22, 2014 12:35
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I really like Sniper MECs because any turn where you're using Overdrive to fire twice, well you didn't move so bonus aim! And you probably need it on a turn you're using overdrive to fire twice.
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Feb 22, 2014 12:44
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NihilVerumNisiMors posted:I really could use a base building strategy for EW though. I see a lot of talk of rushing various things but nobody ever mentions how they go about doing it. Research isn't such a big deal on Classic but having lots of equipment, and soon, on Impossible is probably more vital than satellites. Base building 101: Look at your base. Do you have steam? If you've got none, seriously consider restarting. If you've got one tile, you might be able to last until Elerium, but you're gonna waste money building and tearing down basic generators. If you've got two, you're in great shape. You never ever ever ever want to build basic power facilities, they're total poo poo and gobble up space way too fast. Elerium is even better than steam, but comes in pretty late. The adjacent bonus for power facilities is dumb, don't really bother with it if you've got something better to put around them. So, you should be immediately or at least quickly digging for at least one steam vent, preferably on the second or third level (the fourth is really expensive). At the same time you want satellite uplinks. A 2x2 block + one sticking off but giving adjacency bonus is enough to cover the entire world. Start it on the left since you get a free uplink there anyway. Go for engineers any time they're offered unless you must do something else to prevent 5 panic. Build a big ol' workshop fortress on the right, which gives you even more engineers and gives the most ridiculous adjacency bonus. Research meld recombination early on, throw down gene lab and the cybernetics facility as soon as you've got the spare cash for it. They're not that expensive, I think it's a total of 110 funbucks + excavation for both. Put the cybernetic lab on the right, since it counts as a workshop for adjacency purposes, and the gene lab on the left. Whenever you get around to it, the foundry goes on the right as well, since it also counts as a workshop. Basically: rush steam, get engineers whenever possible (including satellites over engineer-giving countries), throw up uplinks as fast as possible, right side should be a giant workshop block, left side should be uplinks, story stuff, and miscellaneous junk.
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Feb 22, 2014 12:58
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I like steam, but I know there's an Insanity Ironman speedrunner who swears by basic generators. He builds a block on the right side of the base from the start. So while steam is nice, keeps your base neat and allows you to build a workshop grid earlier, it isn't really necessary. Elerium generators cost a huge amount, if you consider what all the components would be worth if you simply sold them.
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Feb 22, 2014 13:12
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poptart_fairy posted:People like you are the reason I love this thread so much. Play Implassic then. 
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Feb 22, 2014 13:54
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MEC questions: level 3 suit. Neither option seems as clear-cut great as punching or grenade launcher right out of the gate, but am I wrong there? What range can you launch mines at? Pulse shuts down Sectopods for a turn, right?
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Feb 22, 2014 14:19
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Fetucine posted:MEC questions: level 3 suit. Neither option seems as clear-cut great as punching or grenade launcher right out of the gate, but am I wrong there? What range can you launch mines at? Pulse shuts down Sectopods for a turn, right? Mines reach even farther than the grenade launcher. Hell, they go outside the vision of the MEC. And yes, the pulse is excellent against Sectopods IF you can get in range.
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Feb 22, 2014 14:47
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Pulse will shut down Sectopods and other mechanical units for at least one turn and will do damage to all surrounding units, including friendlies. Mines have a similar range to a battlescanner and do not alert enemies, meaning you can stack up mines under an enemy like a Sectopod then detonate by activating the pack or setting off an explosive on the mines. Very handy having grenade MECs and heavies around your Prox Miner.
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Feb 22, 2014 14:49
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Oh, then they both sound really good. More explosives is always good, but I'm already getting my Mec up close to punch things, the pulse could be useful on Sectopods if I can't get them down to 9 HP that turn. Also, oh wow base defense! Starting with a Col. Sniper and a mec  edit: RIP Rookie Edwards, random XCOM tech who managed to kill a Sectoid Commander, two Floaters, and a Drone, stall a Cyberdisk for three turns, and force a Stalker to decloak 
Fetucine fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Feb 22, 2014 |
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Feb 22, 2014 15:01
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Do most people get psi way earlier than me or something? I see people talking about mind control being super useful, but I don't think i've ever had a playthrough where I've had it for much more than the final series of battles. Half the time I'm held up having to psi-test people just to get someone who can use the gallop chamber.khy posted:Assault Rifle vs Shotgun : The great Assault Debate. I always go default shotgun ->Laser rifle ->Plasma rifle ->Alloy cannon. My logic is that assaults and supports can both use laser rifles, and by not researching laser shotguns, I can beeline to plasma faster. I feel like on classic/impossible, laser rifle pretty much does the job of laser shotgun, but from farther away. Laser rifle seems to gib most things, until it techs up and you're in the plasma tier anyway. Meow Tse-tung fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Feb 22, 2014 |
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Feb 22, 2014 15:20
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Meow Tse-tung posted:Do most people get psi way earlier than me or something? I see people talking about mind control being super useful, but I don't think i've ever had a playthrough where I've had it for much more than the final series of battles. Half the time I'm held up having to psi-test people just to get someone who can use the gallop chamber. Isn't Scatter Laser in the same tech as Laser Sniper, though? And you definitely want laser sniper, so there's no additional research cost. I like shotgun assaults, anyway. Rapid fire run and gun laser shotgun is a good solution for Cyberdisks and Mechtoids that does not require set up like HEAT rockets do. It seems like I typically get a ton of support troopers, so I don't really need another guy with a rifle.
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Feb 22, 2014 15:39
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Fangz posted:Isn't Scatter Laser in the same tech as Laser Sniper, though? And you definitely want laser sniper, so there's no additional research cost. Yeah, but after I research laser rifle it's usually another 28+ days each to get a sniper/heavy laser. I always had the best luck pushing other tech instead -stuff like mechs and foundry projects, because at the ground level, the laser rifle does everything I need it to. I almost never use supports, so my teams typically look assault x2, mech, and some combo of 2x snipers and 1 heavy or vice versa, with supports as a B team members. There just isn't much I can think of that rapid shot laser rifles won't take down compared to shotguns.
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Feb 22, 2014 16:04
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Meow Tse-tung posted:Yeah, but after I research laser rifle it's usually another 28+ days each to get a sniper/heavy laser. I always had the best luck pushing other tech instead -stuff like mechs and foundry projects, because at the ground level, the laser rifle does everything I need it to. I almost never use supports, so my teams typically look assault x2, mech, and some combo of 2x snipers and 1 heavy or vice versa, with supports as a B team members. 28 days?!? Someone doesn't have enough scientists/beam weapons credits. Anyway, I meant that Precision Lasers, the tech that gives you Laser Snipers, also gives you Scatter Laser simultaneously. So you don't have to research the two individually. Laser rifles are good, but they won't one-shot cyberdisks and shields down mechtoids. I reckon those are two of the most dangerous enemies and I want to kill them ASAP. I generally think the sacrifice in long range firepower is worth it to have that backup option if things go wrong. I generally try to run most missions with one of each class + a bonus rookie, or a support on the sixth slot if I have enough squaddies. One support is the medic, one carries ghost grenades.
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Feb 22, 2014 16:22
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Whether or not I field my assault with a shotgun or assault rifle depends on the mission. I don't want my assault running in up close if my squad is to weak to support him or the enemy is going to be hunkered down and difficult to flank without also being flanked. Later on once I have skills and better tech I can have my assaults always run with the best shotgun since their accuracy isn't poo poo and they have the skills to survive up close, but early on is when I'll seriously consider dropping the shotgun for the assault rifle just because its so risky. Then again, I like to minimize risk as much as possible. Also if I'm training up a new assault late in the game I'll usually just give them a light plasma rifle. The accuracy boost ensures they're gonna get hits so its great to have them finish off weakened enemies and get some kills.Brainamp posted:Mecs are not Shivs. That's pretty much the first thing you need to realize. Think of them as Heavies without the ability to take cover or fire rockets. Instead, they can use collateral damage to strip the cover off anything, fire grenades and mines at huge distances, and punch the gently caress out of aliens. They can still use high cover to break LoS, which is indispensable when they have so little defense. I see. The first MEC I had was an assault equipped with the flamethrower and he was...underwhelming to say the least. Couldn't hit poo poo, and the one time I used his flamethrower I found out it had pitiful range and all it did was piss off the Muton. Who then intimidated half my squad and caused them to all shoot each other. I'll probably give them a try on my next playthrough, right now I've got a really strong core of soldiers and I'd rather not gently caress up a solid run messing around with a new unit against cyberdisks.
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Feb 22, 2014 16:36
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Fangz posted:28 days?!? Someone doesn't have enough scientists/beam weapons credits. Anyway, I meant that Precision Lasers, the tech that gives you Laser Snipers, also gives you Scatter Laser simultaneously. So you don't have to research the two individually. That is true, I tend to completely avoid scientists and go for all workshop/engineers to push total satellite coverage ASAP. It got me through my last several classic/impossible runs, so I feel pretty comfortable with the strategy I've been using so far. I feel like I tech up at a perfect rate, and just rarely feel like I need to have a laser sniper/shotgun. I rush plasma by interrogating a muton as the first thing I do when I get south america's bonus, but I usually have no research credits until that point. By then it's a march to plasma rather than backtracking lasers. I feel like mechs give me the early-game boost I need to just put off lasers and leap ahead. Last game (C/I) I even skipped laser rifle and just rushed light plasma, though it was rough for a patch. Without mechs I wouldn't attempt it, but punch mechs get their 18-hp punch and 2x ranged attack fairly early. I feel like any deficit I lack from lasers are compensated for with mechs really easily. I would hate tackling stuff like mutons with ballistic weapons, but mech-punch just turns them into jelly. Meow Tse-tung fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Feb 22, 2014 |
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Feb 22, 2014 17:07
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So uh, did they make Sectopods show up WAY earlier in Enemy Within or something? A small UFO landed and I think "oh hey, this will be a good chance to train up some of my weaker guys". Well off in the distance I can hear the dull thud characteristic of a Sectopod marching across the map waiting to blow my army to smithereens. I could probably take it IF I had my A team. Instead I've got some average troops mixed with my colonels. I'm tempted to just run the gently caress away because from what I've heard Sectopods are even stronger now and they were already a pain in the rear end to kill even with top tier gear. My guys are still running around in carapace armour with light plasma rifles. VVV Oh, that is WAY less deadly. Mechtoids I can handle easily. Man gently caress whoever decided they should make the same sound as Sectoids, that scared the crap out of me. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Feb 22, 2014 |
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Feb 22, 2014 19:50
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You're probably hearing a mechtoid. Which are still kind of a pain, but more manageable.
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Feb 22, 2014 19:53
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I wish you had the option to junk weapons for weapon fragments. Especially EXALT junk. Like, yeah, they're useful when you're moving into lasers, but I'm trying to get into plasma and getting blocked by weapon fragment requirements. Even if they did a 1-1 conversion of weapon to fragment, I could junk all the EXALT crap and get enough fragments for alloy cannons at least.
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Feb 22, 2014 20:26
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Internet Kraken posted:I see. The first MEC I had was an assault equipped with the flamethrower and he was...underwhelming to say the least. Couldn't hit poo poo, and the one time I used his flamethrower I found out it had pitiful range and all it did was piss off the Muton. Who then intimidated half my squad and caused them to all shoot each other. Best ranged MEC is a max level sniper due to the high aim they have. Max level Supports also work fine if I remember right. If you have random stats on probably best guy make a MEC is high aim maxed out heavy though.
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Feb 22, 2014 20:30
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Iretep posted:Best ranged MEC is a max level sniper due to the high aim they have. Max level Supports also work fine if I remember right. If you have random stats on probably best guy make a MEC is high aim maxed out heavy though. No, if you have random stat growth chop up a Heavy ASAP. They have identical aim growth in fixed, but in random Heavies get 0-2 aim per level while MECs get 0-6. Best MECs are always Squaddie Heavies or Colonel Snipers.
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Feb 22, 2014 20:38
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Zore posted:No, if you have random stat growth chop up a Heavy ASAP. They have identical aim growth in fixed, but in random Heavies get 0-2 aim per level while MECs get 0-6. What is your opinion on support MECs? They have the potential (2-6 growth instead of 1-5 for Hidden Potential) to be better aim than heavy MECs, and while they don't get the defense bonus themselves they can make the whole squad more survivable. Giving your squad Skeleton Suits and having a support MEC nearby gives the same defense bonus as low cover.
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Feb 22, 2014 21:06
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khy posted:What is your opinion on support MECs? They have the potential (2-6 growth instead of 1-5 for Hidden Potential) to be better aim than heavy MECs, and while they don't get the defense bonus themselves they can make the whole squad more survivable. I think the only issue I have with them is that in my experience enemies shoot the MEC trooper more than they shoot the people huddled in cover around them. And I think the Heavies' bonus is invaluable against the big stuff like Cyberdiscs, Mectoids and Sectopods. Supports aren't bad MECs, like Assaults are, but I generally like Snipers and Heavies more. Snipers can be amazing shooty MECs if chopped up at max level, and a low level Heavy can be competent if you slap all the Aim increasing medals on him. I will occasionally make a mid-level support a MEC if my initial Heavy MECs die, because midgame when you're still running into lots of packs and Sectopods haven't shown up yet is when they're most useful. And they have pretty good aim.
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Feb 22, 2014 21:16
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It sounds good but that makes enemies go straight for the MEC instead of your soldiers. You could probably make it work if you can keep the MEC out of sight on the enemy turn. But that means the MEC takes on more of a long-distance role, and why wouldn't you chop up a sniper for that anyways.
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Feb 22, 2014 21:16
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khy posted:What is your opinion on support MECs? They have the potential (2-6 growth instead of 1-5 for Hidden Potential) to be better aim than heavy MECs, and while they don't get the defense bonus themselves they can make the whole squad more survivable. The problem with Support MEC is that any MEC close enough to your units to put them in the Defense field will always be the first target of the Alien AI anyways, so the defense bonus actually isn't doing anything most of the time. Instead of chopping up the Support, MEC-ify a Heavy or Sniper and bring the Support along to drop smoke on the MEC. Smoke is really valuable for MECs, especially on Impossible. It makes them immune to crits, and substantially reduces the number of enemy shots that hit. I always have a Smoke and Mirrors/Dense Smoke Support that backs up my MECs and SHIVs.
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Feb 22, 2014 21:20
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khy posted:What is your opinion on support MECs? They have the potential (2-6 growth instead of 1-5 for Hidden Potential) to be better aim than heavy MECs, and while they don't get the defense bonus themselves they can make the whole squad more survivable. I think in practice you would be better off with a heavy, because heavy is going to be a punchy mech typically and would be closer to the enemy. The type of mech that support would compete with would be against snipers I think, because it means having to stay back with the pack of teammates to share the bonus. I feel like at that range I'd much rather have the sniper aim bonus, because reliably hitting things with those 2x railgun shots is awesome. I also feel like when I had my last support mech, he was targetted way more than anyone he shared a bonus with, since they were in full cover most of the time. Meow Tse-tung fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Feb 22, 2014 |
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Feb 22, 2014 21:21
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Zhang is a guaranteed Heavy, right? How about Annette, guaranteed Assault, or did I just get lucky with my favorite class? I assume she's always psionic, at least. Fully gene-modded her immediately, tossing her in the chamber once the current batch is done. Hopefully I'll have alloy cannons by the time she's done in the labs, and I can let her wreak utter havoc and get some promotions in time for the last Progeny mission
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Feb 22, 2014 21:24
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Had the final battle on a Marathon/Classic game come down to the final move. I have: MEC/Sniper Meld/Assault Meld/Assault Psion/Assault Psion/Support (The Volunteer) Meld/Heavy Next to last round: we moderately damage both ethereals and the uber-ethereal, they manage to mind-control our MEC. Last round: Mind-controlled MEC trooper nearly one-shots The Volunteer, who along with the Psion/Assault are successfully mind-controlled too now. Half the team has switched sides. Meld/Heavy fires blaster launcher and only catches one ethereal non-fatally in the blast. Oh no. One of the Meld/Assaults run-n-gun's up to the ethereal mind-controlling the MEC and rapid fires, ethereal reflects the one shot that hits. Uhhhh things are looking bad for the home team here on Planet Earth. The other Meld/Assault, Earth's Final Hope, run-n-guns up the ramp and rapid fires down the uber-ethereal thus saving the day after all.
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Feb 22, 2014 21:26
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Zhang is a guaranteed heavy with amazing stats on C/I. Annette is a random class with high will and always a psychic(?). I always mech out Zhang because he has higher aim and HP than other heavies, offsetting that downside of heavy-mechs.
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Feb 22, 2014 21:27
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Ahahaha EXALT stumbled through a door my entire squad was hiding behind. We blew the entire wall down, leading to another EXALT squad to stare at the firing line and just turn around and leave. e: Another ran through five XCOM soldiers blowing away a buddy to hide next to him, this is great. RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Feb 22, 2014 |
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Feb 22, 2014 21:29
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My experience lately with overwatch has been one sectoid bumbling into range and my entire squad unloading enough power to melt a cyberdisk onto to the poor little thing. Great work guys, but you probably should of saved your ammo for the Mechtoid marching right behind it. Also, I had no idea that a units class and level mattered when turning them into a MEC. The first and only MEC I mad a was a rookie assault trooper. Maybe that's why it was so bloody useless.
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Feb 22, 2014 21:48
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Internet Kraken posted:Also, I had no idea that a units class and level mattered when turning them into a MEC. The first and only MEC I mad a was a rookie assault trooper. Maybe that's why it was so bloody useless. Yeah that's part of it. Assaults have a terrible Mec ability: they take 2/3rds damage from enemies at close range (the same range as CCS). Compare that to Heavies, who make the nearest enemy attack them with -20 aim and 0 crit, or Snipers, who get a free +10 aim/crit for firing without moving (and Mecs get a Bulletswarm equivalent at Major, so you can shoot and then move every turn or shoot twice if you need to). It's cool that Annette rolled best class. I'd have the first batch of psionic testing done by now if a UFO hadn't landed two days after Deluge  At least I'll have weapon fragments.e: oh god it's a supply barge with two sectopods Fetucine fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Feb 22, 2014 |
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Feb 22, 2014 21:58
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Plus Squaddie Assaults have pretty bad aim. So yeah, Squaddie Assault MEC is probably the worst possible MEC. MECs carry over the base units stats but only have growth rates comparable to Heavies in fixed growth mode, but way better in random growth mode. So Squaddie Heavies and Colonel Snipers rock as MECs because they have the best abilities and doing it that way maximizes the Heavy's aim growth (or at least keeps it the same as it would have been) and you get a kickass accurate MEC with the Sniper. Rank carries over too! So if you chop up a high level soldier you can get the Bulletswarm and ROCKET LEGS and all sorts of cool poo poo at once.
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Feb 22, 2014 22:00
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My June base assault had 4 disks, 2 muttons, 2 mutton berserkers and 3 Chryssalids and a floater. Then I had 2 sectiod commanders, 2 chryssalids and 3 sectoids drop behind me. I had one plasma sniper, my mech, a plasma support, and a laser assault. Once I kept the Chyssalids and the muttons from killing me, the disks loving destroyed me. It wasn't pretty. This was on a CI run, and I was kicking butt before that. gently caress. Pohl fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Mar 11, 2014 |
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Feb 22, 2014 22:16
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Have the devs ever explained why rockets have a 90% miss chance? This always seemed pointless and dickish to me. I mean they give you grenades which will go exactly where the game shows. So they are a reliable tool you can use heavily. Rockets work the same way...except for 1 out of 10 times where they randomly veer of course. There's no way to influence this aim chance and its such a rare occurrence that you can't really plan around it either. Rockets are the Heavies main asset so of course you're going to use them, and most of the time they work just fine. Then once in a blue moon the game says "gently caress you" and there isn't anything you can do about it. EDIT: As for an actual gameplay question, does interrupting research to switch over to something else carry any penalty? Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Feb 22, 2014 |
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Feb 22, 2014 22:58
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Just had a mission in a graveyard, where on the left there is some higher ground up some stairs that has building to the right at the dead end. I had my sniper and assault move up through there and ran into a muton and berserker group who retreated into the dead end. I had my heavy fire a rocket in that direction in the hope that the muton and berserker will leave through the hole in the all instead of down the stairs. The blast also hits the building... and reveals the two mutons and another berserker inside of that building 
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Feb 22, 2014 23:05
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Internet Kraken posted:
Nope, Feel free to jump about with research.
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Feb 22, 2014 23:07
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Assault MECs are worthless. That ability barely triggers and they can still be critted, while the heavy MEC at least gets the ability to be immune to crits from one person. The other three are all useful, but I wouldn't MEC a support unless I also had a heavy MEC around. The two abilities synergize really nicely. Colonel snipers -> MECs are something out of an alien's nightmare. Also, as for suits, if I'm only making one MEC, its fist, grenades (resto if training roulette is on and I haven't gotten a decent medic out of the deal) and EMP. The EMP is just way too good against sectopods and transitions very nicely into getting two punches in next round. Remember that the +punch damage upgrade also lets you punch as your first action without ending your turn, so you can punch twice if you start next to an enemy.
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Feb 22, 2014 23:41
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Internet Kraken posted:Have the devs ever explained why rockets have a 90% miss chance? This always seemed pointless and dickish to me. I mean they give you grenades which will go exactly where the game shows. So they are a reliable tool you can use heavily. Rockets work the same way...except for 1 out of 10 times where they randomly veer of course. There's no way to influence this aim chance and its such a rare occurrence that you can't really plan around it either. Rockets are the Heavies main asset so of course you're going to use them, and most of the time they work just fine. Then once in a blue moon the game says "gently caress you" and there isn't anything you can do about it. Actually, Rocket aim is affected by the aim of the Heavy that shoots it. It is equal to the Heavy's aim or 90%, whichever is higher. In vanilla with no SW options this is always just the 90%, but with Zhang and Hidden Potential you could easily get 100+ Aim which would translate to guaranteed rocket hits.
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Feb 23, 2014 00:06
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amanasleep posted:Actually, Rocket aim is affected by the aim of the Heavy that shoots it. It is equal to the Heavy's aim or 90%, whichever is higher. In vanilla with no SW options this is always just the 90%, but with Zhang and Hidden Potential you could easily get 100+ Aim which would translate to guaranteed rocket hits. That explains why I sometimes have had better than 90% chances to hit with the regular rocket.
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Feb 23, 2014 00:15
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My first encounter with EW Sectopods: two Sectopods, a fuckton of Drones, a Mechtoid, and two Sectoid Commanders triggered simultaneously. I won with no casualties  but it took some bullshit. Like dropping a Ghost Grenade on my Mec in mid-battle. That supply barge gave me a new appreciation for Ghost Grenades. They seemed more like curios before, I hadn't really given much thought on how to use them to totally break things. I wish punching Sectopods to death knocked them far enough away that the Mec doesn't take damage from the explosion, that's kind of a dick move. Ravenfood posted:so you can punch twice if you start next to an enemy. oh my god
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Feb 23, 2014 00:16
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