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The true answer is "it's intentionally ambiguous."
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Feb 20, 2014 19:14
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Fried Chicken posted:Basically. He got rebuked for using horrific punishment and executions in response to what he arbitrarily deemed crimes. And then the imperium named him traitor and sent an assassin to kill him as punishment. Basically, he was "vindicated" by getting them to do what he was doing, exposing their hypocrisy and getting them to discard their ideals. Though considering standard operating procedure during the Crusade was "Join us or we conquer your planet" it's hard to say what line exactly was being crossed when they assassinated him. Basically Kurze's whole philosophy is that the threat of force is the only thing holding society together. Except that's a fatally flawed worldview because without law, principles, and ultimately love, the order that's created by fear only lasts as long as the fear does. AS shown by the complete breakdown of law and order on Nostromo as soon as he leaves. Kurze of course fails to understand this to the end, and sees the assassin send to kill him as a justification for his view without understanding that the problem wasn't that he used fear so much as that he relied solely on fear and had an undeveloped, inchoate approach towards justice or propriety. Dunno I'm interpreting it as basically Classics 101 in space. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Feb 20, 2014 |
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Feb 20, 2014 19:38
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The assasin was sent after the end of the Horus Heresy, so it makes no sense that he was assasinated due to his crimes on the Crusade, but considering this is another example of old fluff retconned in the new Heresy book, it's no surprise there's inconsistencie. However, considering the fact that the whole Konrad Kurze/M'shen thing's purpose is to be a reference to the Heart of Darkness/Apocalypse Now, then it's probably we're reading too deep.
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Feb 20, 2014 20:32
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With that in mind, am I correct in thinking M'Shen = Martin Sheen?
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Feb 20, 2014 20:58
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sniper4625 posted:With that in mind, am I correct in thinking M'Shen = Martin Sheen? Yep.
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Feb 20, 2014 21:23
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sniper4625 posted:With that in mind, am I correct in thinking M'Shen = Martin Sheen? Yup. Earlier in the thread there were a few minds blown with some of the less than subtle references in the names. I'm still annoyed that I missed Mag Uruk Thraka. I'm also a bit concerned that I was able to spell Mag Uruk Thraka without having to check it on google. I have to get out of this thread...
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Feb 21, 2014 09:28
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I just went through several audiobooks and it's a little funny to hear the narrator voice Space Marines and Primarchs by shifting to a voice that sounds like somebody who has smoked way too many cigarettes. Is there an audiobook adaptation that uses multiple voice actors?
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Feb 21, 2014 23:47
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Fried Chicken posted:Basically, the Joker thing. He got them to cross the line they said not to cross and got them to act as badly as he did.
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Feb 22, 2014 00:05
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Baron Bifford posted:I remember a scene from a book (title escapes me) where the Emperor settles a squabble amongst his followers by declaring that assassins should no longer be used because they were dishonorable. Is that it? No, you're thinking of Nemesis.
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Feb 22, 2014 02:33
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Baron Bifford posted:I remember a scene from a book (title escapes me) where the Emperor settles a squabble amongst his followers by declaring that assassins should no longer be used because they were dishonorable. Is that it? It wasn't the emperor it was Dorn
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Feb 22, 2014 07:11
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Are there any books written from the Emperor's point of view or that feature the Emperor as a main character? How about books that go deep into his background?
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Feb 22, 2014 07:35
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Kinda? There was the short story about the last church of terra. But beyond that its mostly been other peoples encounters with Big E.
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Feb 22, 2014 07:45
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Noctis Horrendae posted:Are there any books written from the Emperor's point of view or that feature the Emperor as a main character? How about books that go deep into his background? No, but ADB is writing The Master of Mankind.
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Feb 22, 2014 07:46
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Nephilm posted:No, but ADB is writing The Master of Mankind. Sounds hilariously corny and fun. Thanks. EyeRChris posted:Kinda? There was the short story about the last church of terra. But beyond that its mostly been other peoples encounters with Big E. Ah yes, that was pretty good. I remember reading that a few years back.
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Feb 22, 2014 07:59
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The great thing is that since it's ADB, it'll be in places corny and fun, and more illuminating and thought-provoking by far than 80% of the BL dross. Win/win.
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Feb 22, 2014 08:17
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Nephilm posted:No, but ADB is writing The Master of Mankind. This just made my day. 
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Feb 22, 2014 19:02
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I finally finished unremembered empire. It was good, but like other people have pointed out he basically was forced to tie up all the loose threads. However i really enjoy how Abnett basically turned the lion from being the socially awkward primarch to someone who simply doesn't trust anyone and plays his cards way to close to his heart. Even more so, i did not see a single instance of him referring to everyone as "Little Brother" which to me is nice. Sadly i really think the Dark Angels Legion needs a bit more characterization aside from Luther (mad at the lion), and Corswain (wants to be neutral). I honestly hope Abnett continues writing about the Dark Angels, and Gav Thorpe is banned from writing about them.
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Feb 22, 2014 19:39
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Nephilm posted:No, but ADB is writing The Master of Mankind. Noctis Horrendae posted:Sounds hilariously corny and fun. Thanks. ADB also said on his blog something like, "And no, I'm not dumb enough to actually give the Emperor a POV." We'll get some neat insights into the character, but we're not going to get answers to every question. The Emperor works when he is, to a fairly large extent, an enigma.
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Feb 22, 2014 20:37
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Uroboros posted:I thought it was primarily because he foresaw that was how he would die, and he had been tormented so long by the accuracy of his visions that he was just resigned to let it happen. I figured the whole "LoL, you guys are just as bad as me" was a half-hearted justification to distract from the fact that Kurze has always wanted to die since he loathed himself and the race he was created to protect. Sevatar calling Kurze out for being an rear end in a top hat from day one is probably my favorite bit of Night Lords Heresy stuff.
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Feb 22, 2014 20:47
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DirtyRobot posted:ADB also said on his blog something like, "And no, I'm not dumb enough to actually give the Emperor a POV." It's probably better off that way, but it'd still be neat to have a book where we see a few pages of the Emperor's perspective. v0v
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Feb 22, 2014 23:07
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Noctis Horrendae posted:It's probably better off that way, but it'd still be neat to have a book where we see a few pages of the Emperor's perspective. v0v No, it wouldn't. That kind of thinking ruins settings/IPs.
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Feb 22, 2014 23:35
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Nephilm posted:No, it wouldn't. That kind of thinking ruins settings/IPs. Yeah, you're probably right. Every sci-fi series has a character we know very little about and have never actually seen.
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Feb 22, 2014 23:48
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Listening to Throne of Lies. I really love the Transformers movie references that ADB keeps slipping in throughout the Night Lords series. This is bad comedy. The defenses were broken, the slaughter would begin. I think there are more, but I do not remember at the moment. At first I thought it was coincidence, but then I saw the caption he put on the image here: http://aarondembskibowden.wordpress.com/2011/08/29/aurelian-cover-art/
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Feb 23, 2014 06:22
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I'm pretty sure there's already been a very short story from the Emperor's perspective just before he beams up to Horus.
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Feb 23, 2014 14:32
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Wolf of Ash and Fire has a first person account of the Emperor engaged in combat with orks from the Ullanor empire. Not from his perspective, but from Horus' and Sejanus. I'd probably pay like 50 dollars for a proper record of the ullanor campaign.
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Feb 23, 2014 17:29
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VanSandman posted:I'd probably pay like 50 dollars for a proper record of the ullanor campaign. Way to say it out loud, man. Now GW will make it, but charge $150. e: And only print 30 copies. One Legged Cat fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Feb 23, 2014 |
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Feb 23, 2014 17:37
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VanSandman posted:Wolf of Ash and Fire has a first person account of the Emperor engaged in combat with orks from the Ullanor empire. Not from his perspective, but from Horus' and Sejanus. Kharn also tells a story to Angron about the Emperor in combat in After Desh'ea. Pertarabo's men are being overwhelmed by the burrowing monsters and then the Big E comes screaming down from the sky and everything he hits reacts as if hit by a grenade.
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Feb 24, 2014 09:27
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Dog_Meat posted:Kharn also tells a story to Angron about the Emperor in combat in After Desh'ea. Pertarabo's men are being overwhelmed by the burrowing monsters and then the Big E comes screaming down from the sky and everything he hits reacts as if hit by a grenade. The point of that was probably to make Angron more furious that the Emperor didn't save his slave army. There are a lot of inconsistencies and weird actions on the part of the Emperor, but teleporting Angron up from his last stand near the end and letting his closest friends die is easily one of the most irrational things he's ever done.
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Feb 24, 2014 09:37
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pentyne posted:The point of that was probably to make Angron more furious that the Emperor didn't save his slave army. There are a lot of inconsistencies and weird actions on the part of the Emperor, but teleporting Angron up from his last stand near the end and letting his closest friends die is easily one of the most irrational things he's ever done. There are many unknowns regarding that event, and many plausible explanations for the decision. Betrayer indirectly sheds some light into it by showing how Nuceria was left unmolested after a peaceful compliance, and how the Emperor knew Angron's implants were killing him yet took no action to remove the Nails. The situation screams of hidden complexity, and I'm hoping The Master of Mankind or future ADB World Eaters novels reveal more of it.
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Feb 24, 2014 09:48
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It's kinda weird to think how different the Heresy would have been if the Emperor had just let Angron die in his heroic last stand as an act of loyalty and defiance against his oppressors. The World Eaters / War Hounds would have been the most loyal of all legions and would have gladly signed with the Emperor as an act of loyalty shown by their gene father. That or if he understood the underlying motive for Magnus' breaking the act of Nekia to warn his father. Instead rash decision making and weak understanding of non-immortal beings besides himself allowed him to carry the biggest idiot ball in trope history.
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Feb 24, 2014 11:53
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One Legged Cat posted:Way to say it out loud, man. Now GW will make it, but charge $150. And have it written by CS Goto
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Feb 24, 2014 13:45
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Noctis Horrendae posted:It's probably better off that way, but it'd still be neat to have a book where we see a few pages of the Emperor's perspective. v0v
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Feb 24, 2014 14:10
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Nephilm posted:There are many unknowns regarding that event, and many plausible explanations for the decision. Betrayer indirectly sheds some light into it by showing how Nuceria was left unmolested after a peaceful compliance, and how the Emperor knew Angron's implants were killing him yet took no action to remove the Nails.
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Feb 24, 2014 14:36
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Baron Bifford posted:Whilst a full showing of the Emperor's perspective is a bad idea (just how do you write a super-wise, aeons-old immortal?) we could have the Emperor confide a few thoughts to a confidant (eg Malcador). I'm sure there will be plenty of talking done by the big E in the book, as seen by various persons. Malcador is probably the most interesting PoV since he has an intimate relationship with the Emperor (he's efectively immortal because the Emperor wills it so). But I'm looking forward to a bunch of other PoV's from normal humans.
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Feb 24, 2014 15:01
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EyeRChris posted:It's kinda weird to think how different the Heresy would have been if the Emperor had just let Angron die in his heroic last stand as an act of loyalty and defiance against his oppressors. The World Eaters / War Hounds would have been the most loyal of all legions and would have gladly signed with the Emperor as an act of loyalty shown by their gene father. How do we know if he really did let Angron die and Angron just doesn't remember it, either due to wakibg up from death/near-death or else just generally being a total psycho. Angron isn't exactly a super reliable source and noone else was really there. Especially simce Angron killed most of the higher leadership rogjt after As for Magnus, someone find that quote with the analogy about biker gangs.
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Feb 24, 2014 16:34
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Quick lore question: how detailed are astropathic messages? Are they like telegrams or letters?
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Feb 24, 2014 17:00
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Baron Bifford posted:Quick lore question: how detailed are astropathic messages? Are they like telegrams or letters? Depends on the warp/author. Sometimes it's like letters, sometimes images, concepts, ideas, etc.
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Feb 24, 2014 17:10
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Baron Bifford posted:Quick lore question: how detailed are astropathic messages? Are they like telegrams or letters? It is supposed to be about as involved as interpreting dreams. You don't get "orcs attacking from x system, estimated force y, estimated arrival z" you get premonition of danger from a direction with flashes of images showing the enemy and a corresponding sense of anxiety for how strong they are. The ability to use warp flasks and astral projection spells to clearly communicate is of the warp and an advantage of Chaos over the other factions
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Feb 24, 2014 17:27
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Fried Chicken posted:It is supposed to be about as involved as interpreting dreams. You don't get "orcs attacking from x system, estimated force y, estimated arrival z" you get premonition of danger from a direction with flashes of images showing the enemy and a corresponding sense of anxiety for how strong they are. The ability to use warp flasks and astral projection spells to clearly communicate is of the warp and an advantage of Chaos over the other factions
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Feb 24, 2014 17:29
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Yeah, Astropath transmission rules are all over the place in the books. It varies from a Freuds "Interpetation of Dreams" approach to sending an email.
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Feb 24, 2014 17:50
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