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The thing I don't really like is It basically has nothing to do with the Zeong. It honestly has more in common with a bunch of other mobile armors design-wise. I get they were trying to go for a reference but it would have worked better for me if it actually resembled the Zeong instead of basically being a Zaku-rello 2.0.
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Feb 22, 2014 09:36
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NikkolasKing posted:So who is everyone's favorite "Char Clone"? I ask because I am really liking Rau and I think one reason the recent string of episodes have bored me in SEED is because there has been a distinct lack of his presence. It was made up for by Waltfeld for a while but now there's nothing. The Turn-A and G Chars aren't actually very Char like, but they're both awesome. 00's is a psuedo-Char in that he starts out unmasked and with no secret motives and then that reverses itself in season 2. I haven't seen the SEEDs, AGE, X, or Victory so I'm pretty much stuck with Full Frontal and Zechs as the only other Chars. Out of those I guess I'd go with Zechs just because he had the Tallgeese.
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Feb 22, 2014 10:22
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Yeah, I was gonna say Harry Ord because he owns and has stylin' suits, but other than occasionally wearing a mask, he's not very 'Char'-like.
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Feb 22, 2014 10:27
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Turn A splits their Char into two - the honourable, principled mentor-figure and worthy opponent in the gold suit (Harry) and the lunatic, uncontrollable manchild with a mad-on for Gundams in the red suit (Corin). It's a pretty neat approach, actually.
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Feb 22, 2014 10:58
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So does G really, if you're paying attention. Schwarz is fairly low on the Char-alike scale on his own really.
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Feb 22, 2014 11:11
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Well only 10 episodes left. 1. I did not hate Nicol or anything but his death meant nothing to me. Much like Katz's death in Zeta, what made it meaningful was how others that I did care about reacted to it. Episode 31 really earned the dub actors besides Rau's a lot of respect in my eyes. The scene with Athrun and Cagalli was amazing and I think Athrun's VA now rivals Rau's. I've heard some piss-poor attempts at crying since I started my Gundam marathon (though apparently I dodged a bullet by not watching SEED in Japanese) but this was extremely well-done. 2. *after two attempted murders on an unattended prisoner* Natarle: "Captain...please try to understand, I'm not criticizing you out of any kind of personal dislike. I'm merely trying to point out the vital importance of maintaining some semblance of order and that doesn't change simply because of field promotions or emergency situations. The military must be regulated. It requires both soldiers who follow the orders of their superiors and commanders who can see the larger picture and make the appropriate decisions." This poor deluded fool is clearly not only in the wrong anime, she's in the wrong genre. 3. I suddenly long for the mercy and kindness of the Titans. I won't deny I'm a pussy and some of the mushy stuff (like Kira and Athrun meeting and pretending they don't know each other) got to me - but it is nothing to the visceral hatred I have for the Earth Alliance now. I'm reminded so strongly of Harry Turtledove's Worldwar series and how I longed for The Race just to win and conquer all of us because goddam, gently caress humanity. So our heroes had to tkae a third option away from the two giant evil superpowers. I guess I should have seen that coming but I just underestimated the levels of mustache-twirling villainy in the EA. 4. Speaking of which, what's up with this whole introducing a big villain in the last...12 or 13 episodes? Yes I recall Azrael being mentioned once or twice before but this seems rather abrupt. I guess it's nice to have the super-smug type of villain around (as they are the most satisfying when they die) and boy is this guy off the charts in smugness. 5. Rau has Fllay. What a weird, very confusing turn of events. I quoted that line earlier about how he found everything so interesting because it gave me very strong Joker/Chaotic Evil vibes. Maybe Rau does have some sort of ultimate goal and isn't really chaotic but the dude seems to be doing at least some of it for the lulz. 6. Maybe Azrael coming around now isn't a coincidence. He has three lackeys who need medicine to operate - just like Rau. Also I gather from the way they "sense" each other that Rau and La Flaga are Newtypes maybe? So many questions. 7. People have been telling me that Lacus "isn't so terrible" and that there is more to her than i thought. Her leading Kira to Freedom and then the scene with Athrun does seem to indicate there is a brain in there. I just wonder to what extent since an upcoming episode is "Lacus Strikes" I believe. Moe Magnificent Bitch? I guess that be a twist I didn't see coming. Well later on I will presumably be finishing SEED and seeing Rau finally take center stage. I anticipate great things. And then i'll be watching Destiny. There is no Good without Evil. EDIT: Oh one more thing, the EA should have kept fighting. For some reason, ORB had Cagalli giving commands to their armed forces. If they were that desperate for leadership, their military would have folded in no time, even with two super-mecha on their side. Nothing against her character - she's just not in any way competent. EDIT 2: My final SEED review/SEED vs. MSG comparison will not be a pleasant thing for MSG. As others might have deduced from my initial posts at the start of all this, I kinda hated it for the most part. HOWEVER there was one thing I liked about it more than MS Team, Stardust or even Zeta and that is Dozle Zabi's death. I have yet to find an end as memorable as Big-zam's Last Stand. I am holding out hope that Rau's death is at least of comparable greatness. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Feb 22, 2014 |
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Feb 22, 2014 14:53
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The home stretch of SEED is great if only because we hit peak Rau levels
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Feb 22, 2014 15:11
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NikkolasKing posted:7. People have been telling me that Lacus "isn't so terrible" and that there is more to her than i thought. Her leading Kira to Freedom and then the scene with Athrun does seem to indicate there is a brain in there. I just wonder to what extent since an upcoming episode is "Lacus Strikes" I believe. Moe Magnificent Bitch? I guess that be a twist I didn't see coming. They have been lying to you. Lacus is terrible.
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Feb 22, 2014 15:36
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Yeah it would take quite a feat to actually make me like her at this point. But if she at least drops the airy-fairy bullshit, I won't hate her as much. Maybe that's what people meant.
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Feb 22, 2014 15:41
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ImpAtom posted:The thing I don't really like is It basically has nothing to do with the Zeong. It honestly has more in common with a bunch of other mobile armors design-wise. I get they were trying to go for a reference but it would have worked better for me if it actually resembled the Zeong instead of basically being a Zaku-rello 2.0. Remove the fuel tanks and then realize that it's fingers are actually articulated beam cannons. Now you have a giant skirted, legless mobile armor with beam hands. What is that if not the Zeong?
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Feb 22, 2014 16:16
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NikkolasKing posted:Yeah it would take quite a feat to actually make me like her at this point. But if she at least drops the airy-fairy bullshit, I won't hate her as much. Maybe that's what people meant. These are words you may come to regret.
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Feb 22, 2014 16:16
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Mecha Gojira posted:Remove the fuel tanks and then realize that it's fingers are actually articulated beam cannons. Now you have a giant skirted, legless mobile armor with beam hands. What is that if not the Zeong? Just as the Full Armour Unicorn is the RX-0 with every spare weapon in the Nahel Argama's hangar strapped to it, the Neo Zeong is literally a bunch of spare parts from the Zeong and Alpha Azieru bolted onto the Sinanju. Seriously. I'm not kidding.
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Feb 22, 2014 16:24
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NikkolasKing posted:Well only 10 episodes left.
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Feb 22, 2014 16:39
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I just finished Turn A after never catching up with the simulrun two years ago; it's the only Gundam show I've watched. Are Tomino characters usually this human? There was actual depth and subtle ambiguity there. The plotting often felt artificial, but the human element was top notch (a few caricatures notwithstanding, but some subvert this impression). Two things I was surprised the show never addressed. 1)How Kihel and Dianna were so similar they could fool people intimately familiar with them. 2)What Turn A and Turn X (the names) actually represented. I love the Akira Yasuda soundtrack and DVD box arts.  Also, poor Sochie. Man, I'll miss these people.
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Feb 22, 2014 17:35
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It was from a couple pages back, but Harry Ord is the best Char clone by far, even though he's not very much like Char. Harry Ord is like the only Char clone who is actually better than Char. UNIVERSEEEEEEEEEE
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Feb 22, 2014 17:45
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Darth Walrus posted:Just as the Full Armour Unicorn is the RX-0 with every spare weapon in the Nahel Argama's hangar strapped to it, the Neo Zeong is literally a bunch of spare parts from the Zeong and Alpha Azieru bolted onto the Sinanju. Seriously. I'm not kidding. When I saw it I thought "Beta Azieru" except that's apparently already an MSV.
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Feb 22, 2014 17:49
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Harry Ord is a Quattro clone.
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Feb 22, 2014 17:51
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Rinkles posted:
I think Sochie may be one of my favorite characters in the whole franchise and I still feel deeply sad for her when I think back on her story a decade later. Turn A was great.
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Feb 22, 2014 17:58
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hallo spacedog posted:I think Sochie may be one of my favorite characters in the whole franchise and I still feel deeply sad for her when I think back on her story a decade later. Turn A was great. Too bad the Olympics she's hosting are such a shitshow.
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Feb 22, 2014 18:02
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NikkolasKing posted:1. I did not hate Nicol or anything but his death meant nothing to me. Nicol was 15! He loved the piano! And that Neo Zeong is totally just a Space Gunmen. I expect Full Frontal's theme to suddenly change to Libera me from hell.
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Feb 22, 2014 18:10
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Rinkles posted:I just finished Turn A after never catching up with the simulrun two years ago; it's the only Gundam show I've watched. Are Tomino characters usually this human? There was actual depth and subtle ambiguity there. The plotting often felt artificial, but the human element was top notch (a few caricatures notwithstanding, but some subvert this impression).  
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Feb 22, 2014 18:25
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NikkolasKing posted:1. I did not hate Nicol or anything but his death meant nothing to me. Then you'll be happy to know that it was retconned in SEED HD. Now Nicol just walks into Kira's sword. Seriously.
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Feb 22, 2014 18:40
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I forgot about the Turn A chokingyou fish. For a long time I had some banks and such that looked just like that. I wonder where they went. edit : it is the symbol of one of the big Japanese bank organizations hallo spacedog fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Feb 22, 2014 |
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Feb 22, 2014 18:46
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BlitzBlast posted:Then you'll be happy to know that it was retconned in SEED HD. Now Nicol just walks into Kira's sword. I absolutely loved this change if only because of how unintentionally hilarious it makes what's supposed to be a sad and shocking scene. Seriously, it looks like Kira's trying to pull the sword away and Nichol is hell bent on throwing himself onto it torso-first.
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Feb 22, 2014 18:56
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I always figured it was exaggeration when they changed it in HD, and Nicol trips into it (Not that that's much better). Nope, Nicol's like "Please kill me!" the way he takes the extra steps into the sword.
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Feb 22, 2014 20:31
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Kanos posted:I absolutely loved this change if only because of how unintentionally hilarious it makes what's supposed to be a sad and shocking scene. Seriously, it looks like Kira's trying to pull the sword away and Nichol is hell bent on throwing himself onto it torso-first. Nicol is just showing Kira what true killing intent looks like.
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Feb 22, 2014 20:43
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The whole point of the sequence is Kira discovering that for all of his morality, he's as vulnerable to the fight-or-flight impulse as anyone else. It's one of the catalysts for his growth into an emotionless no-kill beam spammer. So changing it was actually incredibly stupid, but I guess we can't have Kira kill anyone ever.
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Feb 22, 2014 20:44
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BlitzBlast posted:The whole point of the sequence is Kira discovering that for all of his morality, he's as vulnerable to the fight-or-flight impulse as anyone else. It's one of the catalysts for his growth into an emotionless no-kill beam spammer. So changing it was actually incredibly stupid, but I guess we can't have Kira kill anyone ever. It's doubly weird because they don't change Kira vs Stellar in Destiny.
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Feb 22, 2014 20:55
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Argas posted:Nicol is just showing Kira what true killing intent looks like. Kira with the Surge of Murderous Intent awakened
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Feb 22, 2014 21:13
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Kanos posted:It's doubly weird because they don't change Kira vs Stellar in Destiny. Kinda hard to say Kira was at fault there anyway. Random circuit blows in the Destroy's cockpit, Stella snaps out of it (or into it, depending on your perspective), and suddenly Kira has to make a snap decision about either explosively shutting down her giant antimatter doomlasers or letting hundreds more innocents die, because those are literally the only two options he has.
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Feb 22, 2014 21:48
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Darth Walrus posted:Kinda hard to say Kira was at fault there anyway. Random circuit blows in the Destroy's cockpit, Stella snaps out of it (or into it, depending on your perspective), and suddenly Kira has to make a snap decision about either explosively shutting down her giant antimatter doomlasers or letting hundreds more innocents die, because those are literally the only two options he has. Obviously the freak out she had should have caused her to through herself into one of Kira's weapons in the HD version.
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Feb 22, 2014 22:39
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Darth Walrus posted:those are literally the only two options he has. Or, you know, he could use his well-honed "disable the suit without killing the pilot" abilities. Which would be kind of easy since the Destroy is ridiculously huge and he can see where the cockpit is.
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Feb 22, 2014 22:40
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BlitzBlast posted:Or, you know, he could use his well-honed "disable the suit without killing the pilot" abilities. That usually involves exploding the enemy suit's weapons, though (or cutting off its limbs). The Destroy's main guns were mounted in its chest and were already charging, which meant that destroying those would result in the whole suit 'sploding, which is exactly what happened. Can't blame even Jesus Yamato for lovely untermensch engineering.
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Feb 22, 2014 22:44
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TARDISman posted:Yeah, Soichiro Hoshi (Kira's) sounds a little like a beached baluga whale when he tries to cry. Matt Hill wanted it to sound legitimate so he told the directer to kick him in the stones. And good news for you, a decent chunk of the SEED cast is carried over to 00, unfortunately Hill and Mark Oliver aren't among the ones that return, but you get Graham Aker's voice actor who I love and the sniper pilot, who's pretty much everyone's favorite character. Yep, Aker is voiced by Paul Dobson. Ever since I read this on wiki I have been looking forward to it. That guy has one of the best voices in anime.
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Feb 23, 2014 01:13
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The whole Kira killing nicol thing is also stupid because he gets really upset in the cockpit after killing Nicol and then gets pissed off at crew members who congratulate him for taking down one of the stolen gundams. Someone has to remind him " uh you've been killing people for a while now." Why should Kira be so broken up over this one guy when he's killed like 70 zaft soldiers at this point?
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Feb 23, 2014 08:54
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Monaghan posted:The whole Kira killing nicol thing is also stupid because he gets really upset in the cockpit after killing Nicol and then gets pissed off at crew members who congratulate him for taking down one of the stolen gundams. Someone has to remind him " uh you've been killing people for a while now." I think it's more this time he knows he killed someone his age, up until now I think Kira's thought process has been that he's been killing mostly people in their mid to late 20s.
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Feb 23, 2014 09:25
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That's really nothing new to Gundam. Amuro and Kamille did the same thing. I think it's simply a problem with writing a story like this - named characters are always going to be treated with more significance than mooks and that includes their deaths. Kamille and Kira can kill all the faceless grunts they want and not care because we don't care but if they take out someone we might care about, they have to care too. Anyway, holy loving hell episode 45. I don't even know where to begin but I think my favorite part might be when Rau SCREAMS orders at the captain of the ship, takes a few deep breaths, then just turns to Fllay and lightly chuckles. It's like going from 100 mph of insanity to a dead stop and it's glorious. Almost done with SEED though and I'll voice the rest of my thoughts then.
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Feb 23, 2014 09:53
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It only matters if someone likes to play the piano. Prepare for peak Rau. The best Rau.
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Feb 23, 2014 10:29
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"But the real world isn't as kind as the one in pop songs." That....that has to be one of the best lines ever in a Gundam series. And so my trek through Gundam SEED comes to an end. Before I talk about the anime as a whole, I wanna focus just on the last ten episodes. Things started off pretty rough, I will admit. The first two or three episodes were filled with entirely too much Lacus. Her relentless bullshit made me think of two things: 1. The "1000 Words" Concert in Final Fantasy X-2. Only this is the entirely wrong setting for that and Lacus isn't essentially The Messiah like Yuna was. I could believe people gave Yuna's words weight because she saved them from a thousand years of misery. Lacus by contrast made me suffer through a thousand years of misery in a few days. 2. Frasier is one of my favorite sitcoms ever and there was a quote from the good doctor himself in the Honey Snow episode I believe. After being exposed to such saccharine levels of idealism he said something like "suddenly I yearned for the worldly cynicism of Barney the Dinosaur." I think that sums up my feelings on Lacus and everything she said. But I needn't have feared. Everything got so much better after that. Rau hamming it up was perfection, even if that whole clone thing is really stupid and unnecessary. Do they continue that plotline in Destiny? i just see no purpose at all for it beyond explaining why he's unstable. It really added nothing at all to the actual plot of the show. And yet Rau's character almost makes me forget about all those little details. I will say without fear of having mud slung at me that I think Episode 49 of SEED is one of my favorite episodes in all of Gundam so far. Hell, it reminds me a lot of Zeta's episode 49 which was also amazing. The actual climax and all of episode 50 really suffered because of how much I loved 49. Now...to the show as a whole. 1. Kira Yamato. The UC fans/SEED haters I used to mostly talk to about Gundam dragged his name down to the lowest levels and I just don't see it. They made him sound like the second coming of Shinji Ikari in terms of angst and I think one of those crosover games even supposedly had Shinji telling Kira to man up? The dude really wasn't that bad at all in...any way as far as I'm concerned. I feel no strong love or hatred for him. he went through the "I hate killing people" stuff like Amuro and Kamille and then he got a backbone in last 15 or so episodes. (although I did notice how he kinda proved Rau right when he shouted "DIEE!!!" at him when the latter killed Fllay....) 2.Speaking of Fllay....her character certainly did not end up anywhere near my expectations. I had this final post of mine sort of planned out way back at the beginning where I'd say people are wrong for calling her "believable" because I don't think it's believable that a grief-stricken teenage girl can become some ultra-committed manipulative genius with extermination on her mind. But she became wishy-washy on that sort of fast and I think that is believable. Her subsequent time with Rau though was pretty flimsy bullshit as far as I'm concerned. She thought he was her dad? I don't think anything new had happened to her to cause this massive detachment with reality. 3. Now the best female character was Natarle. Her story arc was very easy for me to swallow and she rose to prominence that I never once expected. Her death, coming on the heels of La Flaga's, and happening simultaneously with Azrael's, was perfect. i got a little choked up just because the bastard kept shooting her so many times that when she finally said "fire!" you could tell how much agony she was in. 4. Sadly every other woman sucked or was unremarkable. Lacus all on her own nearly sinks the entire show, let alone the women roster. Our captain never did anything particularly memorable, Kira's friend's most noteworthy action was trying to kill a prisoner, and Cagalli...man, Cagalli. Why is she popular at all? How can Destiny ruin her? She didn't do anything. She tried to do stuff I guess, and she had some gumption, but in the end she was utterly unremarkable. In the end only Natarle can be compared to Emma in greatness. 5.SEED focused a lot more on heavy, personal drama than MSG did, but I'm not sure how effective it was in actually making me like any of the Archangel's crew. I mean who is gonna say their favorit epart of SEED was Kuzzey or Sai? The ones who stole the show were La Flaga and later Natarle, and Kira on occasion, and by and large they were not great because of relationship melodrama. 6.In the end I can see why people say this is more "shounen" than previous Gundams. I felt like I was watching Naruto with Kira and Rau debating Idealism vs. Cynicism. The problem is that, yes, previous Gundam series had their heroes lamenting how "we can't understand each other." But there is a time and a place for that kind of thing and having Lacus and everyone else shout about LOVE AND PEACE in the middle of a battle is just ridiculous. Even Vash the Stampede knew when it was time to clam up and get down to business. 7. But man...SEED's English dub. Best dub I've heard in a Gundam so far and it's not even close. Can't say the same for the show itself though as I still prefer Zeta by a good margin. I'll take SEED over the original anime because I kinda hated it. But do I have any desire to re-watch SEED any time soon? Not really. I am ready to move onto Destiny and hopefully it won't be as terrible as everyone says. ' I do have a question for you all here though - Wing vs. SEED? Which do you like more/hate less and any particular reasons why? Seems to me they get kicked around a lot on this board and I just wanna know what their strengths/weaknesses are compared to each other. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 12:16 on Feb 23, 2014 |
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Feb 23, 2014 12:13
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SEED is better than Wing but gave us Destiny, so ends up looking worse for it. A lot of the problems people have with SEED only really started to become apparent when Destiny unintentionally explored the unfortunate and problematic implications of its predecessor, many of which were quietly ignored in favor of space soap operas. The phrase "Jesus Yamato" didn't really pick up traction during SEED's original run, after all. I really don't have any opinion about SEED, it struck me as kind of boring and definitely not focused on things I cared about. I guess I could forgive it if I thought the action appealed to me, but early-mid aughts digital animation techniques were rough and due to their inexperience with the tools the fights tended to lack the impact of 00 or even Code Geass. All that stock footage didn't help either. On the other hand, Wing has flat characters* with nonsensical motivations, crazyland ideology politics, and a plot that makes about as much sense as you'd expect given items #1 and #2. But comes with some of the best-worst dub voice acting you'll find, the phrase "IT'S A GUNDAM," and a very, very large number of grunt Leo MSes suddenly and violently exploding. It's a terrible and vapid show but okay in small doses, preferably with something to take the edge off. I'd recommend a soda drinking game to account for your distaste of alcohol, but that's practically begging for a root canal. I have fonder memories of Wing over SEED, not just because I was younger when I watched it, but because I couldn't stop laughing when I rewatched it many years later. *Literally, one of the funniest moments in the series is when the boring and emotionless protag suddenly shows a hint of dry bemusement over his injuries from surviving the umpteenth time he self-destructed his Gundam. This is a thing in Wing, by the way. Dude blows up his own Gundam a handful of times so that's usually a popular drinking condition. Runa fucked around with this message at 13:02 on Feb 23, 2014 |
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Feb 23, 2014 13:00
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