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Hustlin Floh posted:What Melta equivalent Russ? Sorry, not quite a Melta equivalent. The Demolisher.
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Feb 23, 2014 06:20
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Thundercracker posted:What are the Necron tools to deal with a knight? They have Gauss (http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/6th_Edition_Tactics/Necrons#Unit_Analysis) which lets you glance when you roll 6's for penetration rolls.
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Feb 23, 2014 07:37
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Noctis Horrendae posted:Sorry, not quite a Melta equivalent. The Demolisher. If you're not facing anything with 2+ armor you might as well use the regular battle cannon Leman Russ. You lose the ability to instant death T5 enemies and 1 rear AV but have a MUCH greater range for less points. The melta equivalent Russ would be the Vanquisher which is not very good* because it's one shot at BS3 so it doesn't do anything over half the time. *IA 1 2nd ed gives it rules for a co-axial gun that lets you twin-link the main cannon and the option for a 20 point S8 AP2 Instant Death small blast ammo choice which makes it AMAZING.
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Feb 23, 2014 08:05
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So my event went well! I only lost one game out of four to black blow fly and came in third! This was the only copy of BBF's army list for the 1500 pt event:  The 4 missile launchers had flakk too but that was not really listed. There is a unit of 5 sternguard who have 6 guns, two pistols on one guy. 7 drop pods in 1500 seemed nuts to me, was not sure if someone with a copy of the codex could run the numbers on it. He fired models who have heavy flamers as if they had bolters when it worked better for him, I was not sure if they had them. I was not happy with his rolling but when he says that dice was a 3 not a 2 what can I really do, arguing only helps the slow play. In the end he told me we could not get in another turn despite taking his time quite a bit, especially when deploying his 4 pods at the start. At the end he filled out my score sheet for me but I asked to look it over, he gave himself a 10/10 for sportsmanship. Nice. I told the T.O. and he told me he already knew when he handed it in. What an rear end. But my army got best painted and everyone liked my tablewar army case, so all was well with the world!  Net +$25 for a 12 hour event! Oh yeah!
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Feb 23, 2014 08:15
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will blow your mind.
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Noctis Horrendae posted:Question for the IG folk. Is the Leman Russ Executioner worth the points cost if you're not fighting Terminator units (or other armies' equivalents with a 2+ save) or would I be better off with the Melta equivalent? Worth its points? Not really, but I almost always include it. Its 230 points with the sponsons and that is pretty expensive. Most games, it rarely performs better than a regular Russ. However every once in a while, it performs magically. Against a game of Dark Eldar, it fired into a group of Raiders and Venoms and ended up destroying a Venom and a Raider, disabling another Raider in a single volley thanks to some great deviations. I'm pretty gay for plasma weapons with my Guard so it ends up being a more of a center piece. Still, its handy but if I was concerned about points, I'd rather just take another Russ or Demolisher. Its a neat model though. Crazy Ferret fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Feb 23, 2014 |
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Feb 23, 2014 08:32
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WhiteOutMouse posted:7 drop pods in 1500 seemed nuts to me, was not sure if someone with a copy of the codex could run the numbers on it. 1446 by my count, but that list is so hard to read its hard to believe the TO accepted it.
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Feb 23, 2014 08:41
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Somewhere from 1412 to 1544 depending on whether those squad sizes include sergeants or not and whether that's a 7 or 8.
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Feb 23, 2014 08:57
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Thanks for that guys. That one unit was 7, and I don't recall the Sargent thing, it was hard with so many bare resin guys mixing between tacs and sterns. I was trying to keep him honest with combis too but I just had to trust him. If I could have a copy of his list I would mark it off as I go. Oh well. As much as the Internet dislikes him I don't think he would just over point his list, but when it was hand written and only one copy I was worried. He didn't even put that he had Flakk on his list. It is one copy and hand written, he could have scribbled it on there.
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Feb 23, 2014 11:17
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Forget that, next time I'd not play against him. I haven't got a perfect record regarding wsyiwyg at tournaments, but I've always aimed to be extremely lenient in my opponents favour with that stuff. "Oh no these are totally flakk missiles, whoops it slipped my mind when I blew up your predator last turn." = Too loving bad, play the list you wrote, not the one you need.
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Feb 23, 2014 11:43
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I don't know who Black Blow Fly is but it's pretty sad if you have to cheat to get an advantage while playing Little Plastic Men. On an unrelated matter, what are people's opinions on the World Eater's Red Butchers unit? 5 insane Terminators with 2x Power Axes per dude sounds pretty amazing, as well as pumping out a shitload of attacks for a reasonable price (275 base, 295 if you do the double chainfist option for SL) and I'm trying to find anything wrong with them. They look really cool too so it might be my first World Eaters unit I do up.
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Feb 23, 2014 12:14
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Lack of 'decent' invulnerable save, and no good fast transport is the usual complaint about Chaos Terminators.
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Feb 23, 2014 13:07
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Leo Showers posted:I don't know who Black Blow Fly is but it's pretty sad if you have to cheat to get an advantage while playing Little Plastic Men. I went for a hail marry to see if his list was way off of 1500 but as far as I can tell he didn't straight up cheat. But, he is a gamer in the worst way. Quick example, his droppods come in and he shoots their stormbolter at me. First one roll a one and a three. He looks at the dice and pauses... "Ok, so one hit..." I stop him because he moved crusing speed and must snap shoot. It was the pause that troubles me, he is older than my father, he knows the BS table well. I might read too much Into it but I see it as him thinking, maybe I can get away with it if he doesn't know, ok yeah, "so one hit?..." Another example,he rolls plasma first and hits, then he pulls all his bolters in his hand, picks up his green plasma dice too and says, "so 4 and 2s?" I stop him again, he was rolling to wound me without rolling to hit for his bolters. I hate having to watch the grown man to stop him form
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Feb 23, 2014 13:20
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Leo Showers posted:On an unrelated matter, what are people's opinions on the World Eater's Red Butchers unit? 5 insane Terminators with 2x Power Axes per dude sounds pretty amazing, as well as pumping out a shitload of attacks for a reasonable price (275 base, 295 if you do the double chainfist option for SL) and I'm trying to find anything wrong with them. They look really cool too so it might be my first World Eaters unit I do up. Cassa posted:Lack of 'decent' invulnerable save, and no good fast transport is the usual complaint about Chaos Terminators. Red Butchers use Cataphractii armor, so that's a baseline 4++ save on two wound models. But that also means they really need a transport because they are S&P. A Phobos LR makes the whole unit pretty pricy, and you don't really want just a single vehicle or it gets focus-fired. They also always get hit on a 3+, so tarpits can be bad for them. And a unit of Phoenix Terminators charging at them is going to give them a bad day. I'd say you kind of need to tool up the army to work with them, but IMO they seem pretty nice. By pretty nice I mean within the balance of 30k armies. Mango Polo fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Feb 23, 2014 |
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Feb 23, 2014 13:22
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I'll do the points on it but what's the last item? 5x Dev ML?
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Feb 23, 2014 13:26
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Leo Showers posted:On an unrelated matter, what are people's opinions on the World Eater's Red Butchers unit? 5 insane Terminators with 2x Power Axes per dude sounds pretty amazing, as well as pumping out a shitload of attacks for a reasonable price (275 base, 295 if you do the double chainfist option for SL) and I'm trying to find anything wrong with them. They look really cool too so it might be my first World Eaters unit I do up. I don't know a goddamn thing about 30k, but if you're playing World Eaters already go for the  options. The models and the concept for the Red Butchers are all great, but I don't know what their actual rules are. Cataphractii terminator armor is a 4+ invulnerable save, right?
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Feb 23, 2014 13:26
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Also can't you not hold more than half of your army in reserve at game start?
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Feb 23, 2014 13:34
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^^^^^^Drop pods are an exception because they have to.SUPER NEAT TOY posted:I'll do the points on it but what's the last item? 5x Dev ML? Others have said it was costed around 14xx-15xx depending on specific upgrades which really didn't list. I agree that is kinda lovely for a tournament, coming from a big tournament player mind you. This guy runs beakycon. But I saw that 5 ML thing too and I asked. He said 4 missiles but they also have flakks. (I think I typo-ed those as krakks earlier).
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Feb 23, 2014 13:34
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Are they though? Nothing in 'Drop Pod Assault' says you can withhold more than half of your army. It looked to be around 1475 points (I think 1466).
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Feb 23, 2014 13:38
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It says it in the reserve part of the book. Stuff that must start off the board like fliers don't count against your total.
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Feb 23, 2014 13:40
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Oh, alright, I was only checking the DPA rules. Either way, his list (with flakk missiles) is 825 pts for the squads alone, 28 more pts for the extra models, 245 pts worth of Drop Pods, 75 pts on Tac Squad Wargear, 70 pts on the first Sternguard squad, 50 on the second, 15 on the third, and 100 pts (with flakk) on the Devs. So, 1408 points. Either way he seems like a fucker, so.
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Feb 23, 2014 14:01
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Lotta Necron theorycrafting itt, good luck getting within 12" of a Knight, also you need 108 BS4 shots in order to put 6 glances on a vehicle with a 4++. The Stormteks in a Night Scythe thing works I guess... once. One potentially dead Knight.WhiteOutMouse posted:I lost to Black Blowfly "he loves it"
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Feb 23, 2014 14:07
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Is he the guy who was caught using weighted dice?
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Feb 23, 2014 14:10
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Boon posted:A Wraithknight is going to be a 1 for 1 trade every time IF you can put 1-2 HP on it before and the Wraithknight charges. A Wraithknight stands a pretty decent chance of destroying a Knight by its lonesome- you have two S10 AP2 shots on 3s, then a S10 Hammer of Wrath hit, and then five more S10 AP2 attacks hitting on 4s. On average you wouldn't quite kill him, but it really just takes one Explodes result to seal the deal. The Knight also will, most of the time, fail to kill you even if you don't finish it off, and since you're 2/3 its cost, that ends up being a very solid fight. Swinging first for the WK is a big deal. Thundercracker posted:What are the Necron tools to deal with a knight? Gauss was already mentioned, but Tesla Destroyers are also an okay (if not amazing) way to do it- enough S7 shots from the sides will really make things inconvenient for him. Necrons also get S9/10 AP1 shots (from Doom Scythes and Doomsday Arks) as well as Warscythes. Most importantly, Harbingers of Storm get four-shot Haywire guns, so even just a pair of them stands a very good chance of finishing off a Knight by themselves. WhiteOutMouse posted:*BBF story* Ugh, that guy. Every single aspect of that just screams "skeezy player trying to cheat his way to victory" time after time. Noctis Horrendae posted:Question for the IG folk. Is the Leman Russ Executioner worth the points cost if you're not fighting Terminator units (or other armies' equivalents with a 2+ save) or would I be better off with the Melta equivalent? The Executioner itself is a pretty decent frame- it can hurt light tanks and infantry of all sorts reasonably well, being not dissimilar to the vanilla Russ in that respect (albeit a bit shorter range and more expensive.) The Plasma sponsons are not generally worthwhile, however- you're far too likely to die to your own Gets Hot! results with them (something the main gun doesn't have to worry about), so they end up being almost a liability. Instead, I would look to taking Heavy Bolter sponsons (and hull mount)- the Heavy rule lets you move 6" and fire everything, as the turret is not an Ordnance weapon, so you want to be taking advantage of that. While HBs aren't always ideal against the targets it is wanting to shoot at, anything that forces more saves is good, and you can't beat the price on them. I would generally rank the Executioner above the Demolisher in terms of overall power, but not by much- you could do alright using either of them.
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Feb 23, 2014 14:11
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WhiteOutMouse posted:The 4 missile launchers had flakk too but that was not really listed. There is a unit of 5 sternguard who have 6 guns, two pistols on one guy. I make that list out to be 1408, assuming no Vet Sergeants, nothing extra other than what's listed, and flakk on the MLs. Shooting the bolter on a Flamer marine is wrong, they have to replace their bolter with the flamer. It doesn't say so in the Sternguard entry (just says they can buy a heavy or ranged), but in the heavy option list it states they replace. The 2 pistols on one guy would have to be on the Vet Sergeant in the Sternguard squad, and that comes down to whether "may swap either/or" gives you two chances to swap. Some people say yes, others say no. Lungboy fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Feb 23, 2014 |
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Feb 23, 2014 14:17
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Lungboy posted:The 2 pistols on one guy would have to be on the Vet Sergeant in the Sternguard squad, and that comes down to whether "may swap either/or" gives you two chances to swap. Some people say yes, others say no. Uh, the people who say "no" would be extremely incorrect, the options have been listed this way as far as I can remember. Are you saying that my Wolf Lord can only take one special weapon because he has to replace "bolt pistol and/or close combat weapon"? That would be absurd.
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Feb 23, 2014 14:20
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There are some models that simply give you a 'or' option instead of an 'and/or', so it seems to imply you can swap both, but IIRC those are all from FW. Either way he seems like the type of person who would have his 2x grav pistol sgt firing a boltgun when it was going to be useless, and 'this definitely wasn't the guy with the heavy flamer' type stuff.
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Feb 23, 2014 14:20
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Are you guys serious with this poo poo? This is a really basic and fundamental aspect of list building. Why would it say "and/or" instead of just "or" if the intent was to only allow one swap.
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Feb 23, 2014 14:21
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I agree that either/or gives 2 swaps, but most forums are filled with people arguing it's only 1 swap.
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Feb 23, 2014 14:22
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Phyresis posted:Are you guys serious with this poo poo? This is a really basic and fundamental aspect of list building. I am agreeing with you, so yes?
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Feb 23, 2014 14:23
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AbusePuppy posted:A Wraithknight stands a pretty decent chance of destroying a Knight by its lonesome- you have two S10 AP2 shots on 3s, then a S10 Hammer of Wrath hit, and then five more S10 AP2 attacks hitting on 4s. On average you wouldn't quite kill him, but it really just takes one Explodes result to seal the deal. The Knight also will, most of the time, fail to kill you even if you don't finish it off, and since you're 2/3 its cost, that ends up being a very solid fight. Swinging first for the WK is a big deal. super heavies don't explode. they just take additional hull point damage (d3) from an explodes result edit: re-reading, you may be accounting for this... but it's not clear. apologies if I've jumped to conclusions.
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Feb 23, 2014 14:48
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AbusePuppy posted:A Wraithknight stands a pretty decent chance of destroying a Knight by its lonesome- you have two S10 AP2 shots on 3s, then a S10 Hammer of Wrath hit, and then five more S10 AP2 attacks hitting on 4s. On average you wouldn't quite kill him, but it really just takes one Explodes result to seal the deal. The Knight also will, most of the time, fail to kill you even if you don't finish it off, and since you're 2/3 its cost, that ends up being a very solid fight. Swinging first for the WK is a big deal. Can you explain how the Wraithknigt will be able to so easily survive an Imperial Knight striking back? Because from what I can see a Knight just has to hit twice with it's main melee weapon to splatter a Wraithknight.
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Feb 23, 2014 14:50
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I doubt it will survive striking back but 'nearly killing it' is about in-line with it's point cost.
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Feb 23, 2014 15:21
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Safety Factor posted:I don't know a goddamn thing about 30k, but if you're playing World Eaters already go for the Yes, the Cataphractii is 2+/4++ but is Slow and Purposeful. I think it'll be part of my initial purchasing wave while I figure out what else I want/can paint. In any case it'll probably end up as a fun style army but I'd like to be able to do some kiling with it.
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Feb 23, 2014 15:24
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I'm seriously considering starting an Iron Hands army, which would be my 2nd Marine effort. IWND on a Knight just seems too funny to pass up.
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Feb 23, 2014 16:09
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Some people: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WARHAMMER-40K-DEFILER-/221375206847?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item338afd95bf&autorefresh=true Have some other stuff:    One Stormboy is carrying a certain hammer used by a certain Marvel superhero.  Hopefully it will influence those hammer of wrath hits.
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Feb 23, 2014 16:29
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Lungboy posted:I'm seriously considering starting an Iron Hands army, which would be my 2nd Marine effort. IWND on a Knight just seems too funny to pass up. Won't work, they won't get the Chapter Tactics.
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Feb 23, 2014 16:29
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:Is he the guy who was caught using weighted dice? He was running beakycon 2012 and a player from his team (Wrecking Crew) was caught using a weighted dice to size the initiative after an aggressive deployment. The 3rd party head judge made the ruling after asking previous opponents if they were sized on with the dice in question, also handling the dice and rolling 6s nonstop. He was not thrown out though, just given a loss for that game, if I recall correctly. So it was not him, he ran the event and a guy from his 'team' was cheating blatantly. Side note, the guy who cheated used the signature "They Call Me Loaded" on their Wrecking Crew forums prior to this event. WhiteOutMouse fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Feb 23, 2014 |
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Feb 23, 2014 16:36
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I've been unable to find any really good tips for making up a chapter/company banner on the computer. Searching for them seems to turn up mostly banner creation in DoW or a set of defunct files. Does anyone have any resources or tips for doing so in Photoshop or Illustrator (or even MS Publisher)?
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Feb 23, 2014 16:36
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Few pics of my finished castellax:      I messed up the posing a bit so the feet joints are a little fragile, should be okay for games though. Really fun model to paint, can't wait to get the other two... Next up on the painting table is my Ad Mech Shadowsword. build's finished aside from a few plasticard cable covers and an etched brass decal sheet i'm waiting on. First model i'll mainly be doing with an airbrush, so should be good practice for the imperial Knight!       
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Feb 23, 2014 17:24
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TKIY posted:Won't work, they won't get the Chapter Tactics. Why not?
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Feb 23, 2014 17:27
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