|
My girlfriend is a corporate associate. She's billed 24 hours in the past 48--got into work at 8:00 this morning and is still there. Note: hours billed doesn't mean hours in the office. She spent a good part of Friday sitting around seeing if the client wanted to revise some documents. Go to law school. It's a great life choice. edit: the partner on the deal said she "might be able to leave around 3 am" Omerta fucked around with this message at 06:44 on Feb 23, 2014 |
#
?
Feb 23, 2014 02:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 20:15 |
|
|
Edit: wrong thread, need legal advice. Don't go, die alone (or with a psychopathic roommate because you can't afford to live alone).
Leopold Stotch fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Feb 23, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2014 14:24
|
|
|
Omerta posted:My girlfriend is a corporate associate. She's billed 24 hours in the past 48--got into work at 8:00 this morning and is still there. What am I missing? Because, with no offense intended, 24 hours in 48 is basically just a couple of relatively average days for a lot of big firm attorneys, even on weekends. Hell, I billed around 100 over seven days total (which included a couple of 12 hour billed days) on Saturday and Sunday just a couple weeks ago, and I'm about as lazy as it gets. Not trying to disparage you, just wondering if you meant to type something else, or if I've finally had the brain hemorrhage that means I get to go on disability. EDIT: Okay, so hours billed doesn't mean hours in the office - yeah, that's always the case, but I get it more now. She's basically been in office for about 40+ of those 48 hours it sounds like.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2014 15:40
|
|
|
Omerta posted:My girlfriend is a corporate associate. She's billed 24 hours in the past 48--got into work at 8:00 this morning and is still there. On the other hand, I'm a corporate associate and billed only 56 hours all month. Last month I finally got significantly over 100, but most of that was doc review I volunteered for. All of the new corp associates are slow and they keep saying it will get busier but it's been 5 months already.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2014 17:02
|
|
|
Whoever was asking about submitting an academic piece for publication, now is the window to submit to journals for the Spring cycle. If you have not already submitted your article, you should do so within the next two weeks. Sooner, rather than later. If it's your first published piece, you should probably start from the bottom and work your way up. A Google search can help explain strategy in terms of using an offer from a lower ranked journal to make your piece more attractive to a higher ranked journal.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2014 17:38
|
|
|
RFX posted:On the other hand, I'm a corporate associate and billed only 56 hours all month. Last month I finally got significantly over 100, but most of that was doc review I volunteered for. All of the new corp associates are slow and they keep saying it will get busier but it's been 5 months already. Five months in at our firm, and people would still be figuring out how to integrate you into things, etc. I'm not saying it's great, but I wouldn't freak out too much just yet. Where I am, there are a couple of guys I specifically recall who sat around with 50-100 a month for the first half year or so. Now they're both rolling 200-250 a month. (And, of course, loving their lives.) It can just take awhile to get worked in to the system.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2014 17:46
|
|
|
SlyFrog posted:Now they're both rolling 200-250 a month. (And, of course, loving their lives.) That's like 12.5 hours billed every day (assuming they only work on weekdays). Probably add 1/3 to that to get the actual number of hours worked and you get over 16 hours worked a day. Assuming no time driving, eating, or enjoying one's self that's still not even enough time to get a healthy amount of sleep. Nitrousoxide fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Feb 23, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2014 18:05
|
|
|
Nitrousoxide posted:That's like 12.5 hours billed every day (assuming they only work on weekdays). Why would you assume that?
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2014 18:10
|
|
|
evilweasel posted:Why would you assume that? I know that's a crazy assumption. I just wanted to see if it was even physically possible for this person to have a weekend. Even assuming they work every single day in a 30 day month that's still almost 12 hours a day worked.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2014 18:11
|
|
|
Nitrousoxide posted:I know that's a crazy assumption. I just wanted to see if it was even physically possible for this person to have a weekend. You do 9-midnight all week, billing 11-12 hours, and then put in some time (5-6 hours) on weekends and it's easy enough. It's lovely and I've hated the months I've had like that because it means I never see my wife, but it isn't all that hard to wind up doing.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2014 18:17
|
|
|
I generally assume that biglaw also includes a non-trivial amount of exaggeration, both around the water cooler to fit in with the dick-measuring thinly disguised as bitching, and on the time sheets because literally everyone not currently employed in biglaw and commenting on the record agrees that poo poo is endemic
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2014 18:19
|
|
|
Kalman posted:You do 9-midnight all week, billing 11-12 hours, and then put in some time (5-6 hours) on weekends and it's easy enough. It's lovely and I've hated the months I've had like that because it means I never see my wife, but it isn't all that hard to wind up doing. I was getting suicidal thoughts from the soul crushing work that was debt collection, and that only required 9-10 hours of work per day (our clients didn't pay by the hour, so no billable hour requirements)plus an occasional day on the weekend. I would literally jump off a bridge after a week of that. Nitrousoxide fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Feb 23, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2014 18:22
|
|
|
Kalman posted:You do 9-midnight all week, billing 11-12 hours, and then put in some time (5-6 hours) on weekends and it's easy enough. It's lovely and I've hated the months I've had like that because it means I never see my wife, but it isn't all that hard to wind up doing.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2014 18:58
|
|
|
Soothing Vapors posted:No lawyers work 9 to midnight and only come away with 12 hours for that day. Probably closer to 20 Speak for yourself? On my average 9-midnight I bill 11-12 of the 15.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2014 19:13
|
|
|
Kalman posted:Speak for yourself? On my average 9-midnight I bill 11-12 of the 15. RIP
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2014 19:16
|
|
|
Nitrousoxide posted:I know that's a crazy assumption. I just wanted to see if it was even physically possible for this person to have a weekend. You're losing way too much time if you're working a 12 hour day and only billing 8.3 hours of it (which is what you have to bill every day of a 30 day month to get 250 hours). Even in terms of being honest with your time, you're either giving too big a mark down or you're being incredibly inefficient. Now if "working" a 12 hour day means breaking out a half hour to go to the gym, taking an hour or hour and a half for lunch, etc., then you're not really working a 12 hour day. Also yes, time inflation in the profession is endemic. But it is not nearly universal. I work with a guy who bills 3,000 hours a year, and just by having worked with him, I can attest it's all pretty drat real (frightening, but real). SlyFrog fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Feb 23, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2014 21:52
|
|
|
SlyFrog posted:What am I missing? Because, with no offense intended, 24 hours in 48 is basically just a couple of relatively average days for a lot of big firm attorneys, even on weekends. Hell, I billed around 100 over seven days total (which included a couple of 12 hour billed days) on Saturday and Sunday just a couple weeks ago, and I'm about as lazy as it gets. Yup, she's been "on standby" for a lot of the time. I didn't ask her how many hours she's billed today, but she's been in the office since 10 and just the firm just ordered dinner. Corporate is crazy--all feast or famine. I'm glad I'm doing lit; at least you know when you'll be slammed most of the time.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2014 01:25
|
|
|
Omerta posted:Yup, she's been "on standby" for a lot of the time.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2014 02:27
|
|
|
Omerta posted:I'm glad I'm doing lit; at least you know when you'll be slammed most of the time. Hahahahahahahahahaha. Wait til a plaintiff obtains a TRO on a holiday and the partners have all hosed off to Partnertopia and you're the only one in the area so you can spend 8-12 hours on site fighting with opposing counsel about the terms of enforcement.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2014 05:53
|
|
|
Yeah, lit's just as bad, you have no control over what the other side (if you know there is another side) is doing at any point. You don't make vacation plans, you just have vacation 'hopes'.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2014 06:59
|
|
|
I'm taking 4 weeks off in a row this summer. Government fo lyfe.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2014 07:38
|
|
|
Ani posted:If you are on standby after hours (nights or weekends or early mornings), you should be billing that time. Exactly. There is actually a somewhat unintuitive value that comes from billing by the hour. People (including clients) will attempt to get away with whatever they can in terms of using you. Most do not care about you or your personal life in the slightest. The same goes for partners. So if they think they might need something from you, they'll have no problem demanding (or implying) that you should just hang around waiting for the call or work that might come. When they realize they actually need to pay for that time, it generally wises them up. We have a guy here who says, "If I'm not spending time with my family, and it is because of you, you're paying for it."
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2014 14:24
|
|
|
The Warszawa posted:Hahahahahahahahahaha. Yeah I know, but it's not like anyone's practice is entirely last-minute TROs, which is essentially what corporate work is.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2014 14:25
|
|
|
I'm on pace for a solid 17 hours by midnight with no end in sight. Gotta love how everything, no matter how small, is essentially a fire drill because partners are loving crazy.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2014 23:47
|
|
|
Omerta posted:Yeah I know, but it's not like anyone's practice is entirely last-minute TROs, which is essentially what corporate work is. See below. mikeraskol posted:I'm on pace for a solid 17 hours by midnight with no end in sight. Gotta love how everything, no matter how small, is essentially a fire drill because partners are loving crazy. Good to see you commit to something.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2014 23:50
|
|
|
nm posted:I'm taking 4 weeks off in a row this summer. Government lyfe best lyfe
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 01:34
|
|
|
I'm starting a jury trial tomorrow morning on a loving divorce where the only issue is child custody. And in Texas, the jury basically only decides who the kid lives with. Opposing counsel said today that his case in chief is four goddamn days long. Luckily, his client is insane and the judge granted all my motions in limine.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 02:53
|
|
|
Scurrilous accusations have been leveled that I do not tenderly nurture our fledgling law larvae as they wriggle helplessly toward the profession. So here it is attn law students: when you are from Secondary Market A (let's say Atlanta) and you interviewing for a firm job in Secondary Market B (let's say Maine), come up with a convincing reason you want to live out the rest of your life in Maine. Invent a family member. Claim you're the Archduke of Maine. Doesn't matter, we don't fact check this poo poo, we just try to remember what your name was and dimly recall what you said during your callback. But you gotta come up with something. Also, when asked "so where do you see yourself in X years" in a firm interview for a firm in Maine, do not respond with any of: (a) "probably back in Atlanta"; (b) "Oh.... I dunno..."; or (c) "doing public interest or something that really fulfills me." all three of these are real words that 1L interviewees made me hear with my ears.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 21:10
|
|
|
Also, have a question that isn't "So, like, I saw on your page that you do litigation. Does that mean you sue people?" Btw, shoutout to all you Guam-people. (I use a hyphen because I assume you are all now either jellyfish hybrids or otherwise inextricably tied to strange wildlife) I saw a Guam-ian opinion when Shepardizing a case today. Your court's opinion wasn't useful, but at least you made it to modern legal databases!
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 21:41
|
|
|
What exactly is a good answer to "where do you see yourself in 5 years"? I obviously can't use the truth, which is "probably still here if you haven't laid me off yet, I don't really care," what do employers want to hear with that one?
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 21:55
|
|
|
Soothing Vapors posted:attn law students: when you are from Secondary Market A (let's say Atlanta) and you interviewing for a firm job in Secondary Market B (let's say Maine), come up with a convincing reason you want to live out the rest of your life in Maine. Invent a family member. Claim you're the Archduke of Maine. Doesn't matter, we don't fact check this poo poo, we just try to remember what your name was and dimly recall what you said during your callback. But you gotta come up with something. It surprises me how few interviewers realize they can just lie about poo poo like that and no one will be the wiser. Obviously, don't lie about hard facts like your school, GPA, poo poo like that, but everything else is fair game.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 21:56
|
|
|
Ainsley McTree posted:What exactly is a good answer to "where do you see yourself in 5 years"? "probably still here MoFauxHawk fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Feb 25, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 21:58
|
|
|
Ainsley McTree posted:What exactly is a good answer to "where do you see yourself in 5 years"? Working my rear end off with a fine-rear end spouse and avoiding my newborn.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 22:04
|
|
|
Ainsley McTree posted:What exactly is a good answer to "where do you see yourself in 5 years"? Like, not those exact words, but if you could fit most of that into your answer our recruiting chair would probably blow a load in his pants while you were talking HiddenReplaced posted:It surprises me how few interviewers realize they can just lie about poo poo like that and no one will be the wiser. Obviously, don't lie about hard facts like your school, GPA, poo poo like that, but everything else is fair game. I know, right? We're not going to check! Ever! In one interview last week, I got bored with the kid so hastened him to the "What questions about [firm] can I answer for you?" part of the callback. And he's like, "nah, don't got none, my other interviewers answered them all." Like we're going to compare notes and realize he asked two of us the same question
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 22:35
|
|
|
When I do interviews it's basically: Do I like this person Y/N? And then I fill out whatever on the online form. A good tip, if you want me to dislike you, is to ask something about work-life balance in a formal interview.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 22:44
|
|
|
mikeraskol posted:A good tip, if you want me to dislike you, is to ask something about work-life balance in a formal interview. Law schools should really teach an interviewing class. It would probably be more useful than Con Law.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 22:48
|
|
|
The best part is that career offices always say that asking questions about things like work-life balance and pro-bono opportunities won't negatively impact the firm's perception of you. Or at least the one at my school said that.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 22:54
|
|
|
Arcturas posted:Also, have a question that isn't "So, like, I saw on your page that you do litigation. Does that mean you sue people?" Though this one is obviously dumb and so is the work-life balance one, what are some good questions? I've had some positive response to asking about things on interviewer bios ("Before you were a lawyer you developed submarine detection technology?") but a lot of bios are boring and dumb and the firm doesn't have any big litigation or whatever to ask about. I do pro-bono at school so sometimes I tailor a question to talk about that but asking about pro-bono at IP firms is really dumb because their answer is always "we don't know how to dovetail pro bono work with IP but if you can figure it out you can do it."
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 22:55
|
|
|
Artic Puma posted:The best part is that career offices always say that asking questions about things like work-life balance and pro-bono opportunities won't negatively impact the firm's perception of you. Or at least the one at my school said that. There is absolutely nothing that won't affect you, it depends on the interviewer. Hell, I dinged someone one time for wearing a class ring (though it was the class ring combined with his general demeanor I guess).
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 22:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 20:15 |
|
|
^^^ ahahahaArtic Puma posted:The best part is that career offices always say that asking questions about things like work-life balance and pro-bono opportunities won't negatively impact the firm's perception of you. Or at least the one at my school said that. Also, career services is generally worthless.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 22:58
|
|