|
Giedroyc posted:Then you get NEO Claremont, Austen and Claremont V3 aka it's Sage and Psylocke! you WILL like them! as they go on another exciting adventure to the most interesting place on Earth, the Savage Land! Claremont III also saw him revisiting his other favourite characters (the Moore/Davis cast from Captain Britain) and trying to use House of M to bring in his twenty-year old "Jaspers Warp II" idea. Yvonmukluk posted:Wasn't it that Death Mate crossover thing? That you could supposedly read in any order? YOUNGBLOOD! BLOODSHOT! DEATHMATE RED! THIS BLOOD'S FOR YOU! I think that's the one where Liefeld was so far behind that the editor went round to his house and refused to leave until he finished his pages and handed them over. Wheat Loaf fucked around with this message at 13:29 on Feb 24, 2014 |
#
?
Feb 24, 2014 13:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 22:57 |
|
|
Half of Deathmate was done by Valiant and made vague sense, the other half (Including DEATHMATE RED) was done by Image and was massively delayed and less well received.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2014 13:36
|
|
|
There's a very solid case to be made that Uncanny X-Men was loving pointless to read between 1991 and 2011.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2014 14:20
|
|
|
Bits of Casey's run was alright, but I didn't much like Gillen's either so
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2014 15:13
|
|
|
I liked the way Gillen wrote Namor, and the post-AvX Doctor Manhattan issue is awesome, but I don't think any other part of his run was very good. Like the arc with Mister Sinister's weird city was loving garbage.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2014 15:24
|
|
|
Hakkesshu posted:Like the arc with Mister Sinister's weird city was loving garbage. You are insane. That poo poo was bonkers as hell and a good use of a one-note villain that pretty much nobody cared after the 90's ended.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2014 17:31
|
|
|
d00gZ posted:There's a very solid case to be made that Uncanny X-Men was loving pointless to read between 1991 and 2011. My irrational love for X-Cutioner's song makes me want to disagree with this, but even then that only brings us up to '92 and covers like... four issues.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2014 17:40
|
|
|
Uncle Boogeyman posted:My irrational love for X-Cutioner's song makes me want to disagree with this, but even then that only brings us up to '92 and covers like... four issues. X-Cutioner's Song and Age of Apocalypse will always have a special place in my heart.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2014 19:58
|
|
|
Just wanted to pop in and say that, in reading the Ultimate universe of comics for the first time, Greg Land's art in Ultimate Fantastic Four is really horrible and jarring. Seeing Sue all of a sudden wearing a really revealing uniform is weird. All the smiles are creepy. It's just the worst.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2014 20:26
|
|
|
triplexpac posted:Just wanted to pop in and say that, in reading the Ultimate universe of comics for the first time, Greg Land's art in Ultimate Fantastic Four is really horrible and jarring. Seeing Sue all of a sudden wearing a really revealing uniform is weird. All the smiles are creepy. It's just the worst. Millar/Land is the second best run of UFF after Carey. You will read some real poo poo when Loeb's heroes buddies get their hands on the book.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2014 20:28
|
|
|
triplexpac posted:Just wanted to pop in and say that, in reading the Ultimate universe of comics for the first time, Greg Land's art in Ultimate Fantastic Four is really horrible and jarring. Seeing Sue all of a sudden wearing a really revealing uniform is weird. All the smiles are creepy. It's just the worst. Don't forget completely changing Doom's design to just be regular 616 Doom.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2014 23:14
|
|
|
muscles like this? posted:Don't forget completely changing Doom's design to just be regular 616 Doom. There's an issue where Doom is in different armor in more or less every single panel. It's the one with the zombies. Amazing stuff.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 00:51
|
|
|
Well, you didn't think Land was actually going to imagine a brand new look and pose for Doom, did you? Much easier to grab some cosplay images and fire up the ol' lightbox.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 01:21
|
|
|
I think that was also the issue where sue had a different hairstyle in every panel
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 02:08
|
|
|
bobkatt013 posted:Millar/Land is the second best run of UFF after Carey. You will read some real poo poo when Loeb's heroes buddies get their hands on the book. I prefer Warren Ellis' featuring the Spaceship Awesome, and Sue threatening to put invisible snakes in people's beds.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 02:36
|
|
|
Dacap posted:I think that was also the issue where sue had a different hairstyle in every panel
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 02:58
|
|
|
Madkal posted:X-Cutioner's Song and Age of Apocalypse will always have a special place in my heart. I'll always remember X-Cutioner's Song mostly for having an issue of X-Factor in which not a single member of X-Factor appears even once.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 16:08
|
|
|
Nipponophile posted:I'll always remember X-Cutioner's Song mostly for having an issue of X-Factor in which not a single member of X-Factor appears even once. The only X-Factor issue I remember from X-Cutioner's Song was the one where Apocalypse saves Xaviers life and Angel is there watching the whole thing. What made that issue stand out for me was the awesome art.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 19:23
|
|
|
Madkal posted:The only X-Factor issue I remember from X-Cutioner's Song was the one where Apocalypse saves Xaviers life and Angel is there watching the whole thing. What made that issue stand out for me was the awesome art.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2014 19:39
|
|
|
Books of Magic, after John Ney Rieber decided he didn't like any of the characters any more but couldn't afford to quit.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 23:45
|
|
|
Madkal posted:The only X-Factor issue I remember from X-Cutioner's Song was the one where Apocalypse saves Xaviers life and Angel is there watching the whole thing. What made that issue stand out for me was the awesome art. He probably wasn't even the artist, but that brought back a flashback of Andy Kubert's absolute favorite piece of framing, a gasping person's head in the foreground with somebody else's face uncomfortably close to them in the immediate background, and a concerned onlooker in the further background. Maybe I'm mad or it's just an irrational pet peeve, but I swear I saw him use that same framing constantly during the 90s and it always drove me mad. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2014 00:30
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:He probably wasn't even the artist, but that brought back a flashback of Andy Kubert's absolute favorite piece of framing, a gasping person's head in the foreground with somebody else's face uncomfortably close to them in the immediate background, and a concerned onlooker in the further background. I had to look it up and wouldn't you know it, the awesome art in that issue that I remember so well was done by none other than Jae Lee. That explains the awesome art then.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2014 01:12
|
|
|
Sorry for the thread necromancy here, but this one popped into my head the other day. This isn't exactly a 'run', so much as a little 3-part mini included in the 1991 X-book annuals. Anybody remember Freedom Force? It was kind of a precursor to Havok-era X-Factor, and was made up of Mystique's brotherhood, three mutants that had fought in WW2, and Spiral. They mostly mixed it up w/ X-Factor, and had a pretty big role in the Fall of the Mutants storyline. But let's go to the storyline in question, which takes place during the Gulf War. Anyway, after that Muir Island storyline with the Reavers, the team is whittled down. Stonewall's dead, Destiny's dead, Mystique took off beacuase she was upset about Destiny, and Spiral just kinda effed off back to Mojoworld. So, this back-up feature had Pyro, Avalanche, Blob, Crimson Commando, and Super Sabre going into Kuwait to find a German physicist so the Iraqis can't get him and get nuclear secrets or something. While they're looking for him, they're confronted by an Iraqi team named... Desert Storm  .Now, one kinda cool thing was that each part started off with a little 'mission status' box. It listed the team members and their status, such as Super Sabre: deceased, and their mission objective (I guess in case you didn't have all three issues this was in or something). These panels, as well as Crimson Commando in dialogue, say their objective is to find the Physicist, and 'liberate or terminate'. In part one, they find the safe house, Super Sabre gets decapitated in a surprise attack, and Desert Storm has the guy they're after. Part two, they tussle, Blob and Pyro get the physicist, Avalanche and CC get separated and book it for the airport (which isn't their extraction point). They run into a mine field, and get blown up pretty good. Avalanche is just dinged up, but CC has part of his face and both legs blown off. Meanwhile two of the Desert Storm mooks are like 'Let us watch these American dogs struggle for their last breaths!' yanno, like all Iraqis. Part three (or maybe it was part two still) Blob and Pyro have to fight the other part of Desert Storm. Arabian Knight gets hold of the physicist, Pyro kinda goes 'gently caress this!' burns the Veil to death and also the physicist because the mission's a giant disaster now. Blob beats up Arabian Knight and Black Raazer, and they run for it.On the other end, Avalanche recovers, buries the two bad guys, and is about to take off, when Crimson Commando (who suddenly has his legs still attached) begs him not to leave him. So Avalanche grabs him and books it for their extraction point. Chopper gets them, and they radio down to Pyro and Blob. When they ask their status/location Pyro says they have no clue where they are, since CC had their GPS dealie, and that they had to kill the physicist. Their extraction team guy flips out on them over killing the guy, saying that wasn't an objective. Even though at least four times, it was stated that if they couldn't extract him, they were to kill him. CC ain't looking good, so Avalanche just goes 'gently caress it, they killed the guy, let's get outta here'. So Blob and Pyro are abandoned and arrested. It was three short parts, how could the author forget the story line partway through? And afterward, they made Crimson Commando into a kinda-malfunctioning cyborg, he showed up in Spider-Man, disappeared for about 20 years, then Wolverine decapitated him sometime in the last year. Great job Avalanche! And a bit of an aside, Claremont introduced Crimson Commando, Super Sabre and Stonewall during the time Storm was depowered. They set her and some cokehead loose in a forest and were going after her 'Most Dangerous Game' style, because they thought she was a criminal. Stonewall's power was being like, super resilient and unable to be knocked down. Storm knocked him down twice. CC and Storm later got into a knife fight, and Storm chumped him, even though his mutant power was basically 'being really good at knife fights'. Again, not really a run, but I always kinda took issue with how Claremont wrote Storm (and other female characters) just about any time he was writing them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2014 17:26
|
|
|
LadyPictureShow posted:Again, not really a run, but I always kinda took issue with how Claremont wrote Storm (and other female characters) just about any time he was writing them. So you do not like the guy who made Storm popular, and basically created her entire character?
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2014 17:30
|
|
|
bobkatt013 posted:So you do not like the guy who made Storm popular, and basically created her entire character? I've never been much of a Storm fan, I admit. Sometimes, he wrote her fine sometimes, other times... LadyPictureShow fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Apr 10, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2014 17:36
|
|
|
LadyPictureShow posted:I've never been much of a Storm fan, I admit. Sometimes, he wrote her fine, other times... Yes its called 99.9% of everything that Claremont wrote post Uncanny X-men 280.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2014 17:38
|
|
|
bobkatt013 posted:So you do not like the guy who made Storm popular, and basically created her entire character? I think the point is how much power creep she got. She went from being a sort of naive teenager who had spent her whole life being worshipped as a god, to having a childhood backstory that gave her street smarts and handy lock picking skills, to being a martial arts badass that could beat Callisto and Cyclops without using her powers and was a better strategist than Cyclops. Mohawk Storm was a little insufferable, although she was hardly the only character that had so much stuff bolted onto her during Claremont's run. (Kitty and Wolverine also come to mind.)
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2014 19:20
|
|
|
Mohawk Storm rules and sudden background competency isn't just a problem with Storm, or even Claremont. poo poo's just part of the big two.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2014 19:26
|
|
|
Servoret posted:I think the point is how much power creep she got. She went from being a sort of naive teenager who had spent her whole life being worshipped as a god, to having a childhood backstory that gave her street smarts and handy lock picking skills, to being a martial arts badass that could beat Callisto and Cyclops without using her powers and was a better strategist than Cyclops. Mohawk Storm was a little insufferable, although she was hardly the only character that had so much stuff bolted onto her during Claremont's run. (Kitty and Wolverine also come to mind.) All that Storm stuff happened very early in the run. She also was not a better stragist than Cyclops and had self doubt the entire time she was leader. The bigger problem with Storm was how everyone fell in love with her.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2014 19:43
|
|
|
I read an interview with Byrne were he mocked Claremont for wanting to include female characters all the time. It makes me give Claremont a pretty big pass in that department.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2014 20:19
|
|
|
Claremont's writing got so bad at some point that a fetish with Storm seemed like a natural progression. Now if you want to talk about Strong Female Characters coming out of nowhere with utterly unexpained/unjustified powers and competence...fuckin' Sage...
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 11:35
|
|
|
DarkCrawler posted:Now if you want to talk about Strong Female Characters coming out of nowhere with utterly unexpained/unjustified powers and competence...fuckin' Sage... Raise your hand if you think Sage is a great character BUT think that the "I was spying for Xavier all along!!" retcon is total bullshit.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 12:52
|
|
|
I don't think she's a great character, and I think the retcon about her spying for Xavier is stupid, not to mention her fairly ill-defined, random powerset. I do like that he took a character who was very much present, but not overly noticeable or memorable, and brought her back. So, good idea, poor execution.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 12:58
|
|
|
Servoret posted:I think the point is how much power creep she got. She went from being a sort of naive teenager who had spent her whole life being worshipped as a god, to having a childhood backstory that gave her street smarts and handy lock picking skills, to being a martial arts badass that could beat Callisto and Cyclops without using her powers and was a better strategist than Cyclops. Mohawk Storm was a little insufferable, although she was hardly the only character that had so much stuff bolted onto her during Claremont's run. (Kitty and Wolverine also come to mind.) I just got to the point where she got her mohawk. There definitely were some changes but I could go along with most. The hand to hand combat is puzzling. I had to re-read some panels when she beat Callisto because it didn't make much sense. There was a lot of room to develop the "new" x-men since their introduction still but being able to easily put down a supposed hand to hand warrior was odd. As for the her becoming a literal god power wise. Didn't really bother me, I just saw it as her being on the x-men and getting training and becoming more in control of her powers. A lot can go wrong when she gets emotional or isn't focused and so that held her back. The ramping up of power and abilities at this point is just a looong foreshadowing to the 90s in my opinion. Where EVERYONE was AWESOME. I liked the new x-men so far because everyone was very flawed. For a great strength there was a great weakness. It was very odd seeing wolverine perpetually get his rear end kicked or not be very effective until he started getting more and more fans. Favorabilis Solitud fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Apr 11, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 15:35
|
|
|
I think we can all agree Storm was nowhere near the strategist Cyclops was. I don't recall her ever calling out any numbered maneuvers. Also it's really weird for somebody to complain about Claremont-written Storm, considering... has any writer post-Claremont shown any interest in doing absolutely anything with the character? Claremont-leaving and the goofy voice on the cartoon pretty much killed the character dead circa 1991.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 19:58
|
|
|
bobkatt013 posted:Yes its called 99.9% of everything that Claremont wrote post Uncanny X-men 280. I'm sorry, your finger slipped over a key from "1" to "2" in that number.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 21:52
|
|
|
Random Stranger posted:I'm sorry, your finger slipped over a key from "1" to "2" in that number. You are not a fan of the Outback era or the mutant massacre?
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 21:59
|
|
|
Random Stranger posted:I'm sorry, your finger slipped over a key from "1" to "2" in that number.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2014 22:40
|
|
|
Time for my two cents: I give you: Legion Lost. Not the awesome reboot Legion 12 issue series (which you should seriously go read right now), but the New 52 Legion Lost. New 52 gave us two Legion titles: Legion of Super Heroes and Legion Lost. LoSH and Legion Lost's history weren't messed with much by the Flashpoint event, so the storylines from the pre-New 52 went right on. LoSH focused on the team in the 31st century, as if nothing hadn't happened. Legion Lost focused on seven Legionnaires who were somehow lost in the timestream and stranded in the New 52 timeline. No explanation was given as how they got there. Only that they were there chasing a villain called Alastor, who was causing people to mutate in the 20th century, and it was spreading like a disease (zombie storyline were very big in the New 52 it seems). The problem with this title both comes from the timing of New 52 and the characters selected. Coming off of Legion of Three Worlds, the original Legion was back in the main timeline and a lot of the characters just weren't in the consciousness of readers. Given that the Legion is rife with continuity and a huge roster of characters, only the most hardcore of fans would recognize a lot of the characters. And many of them hadn't been given a proper re-introduction yet. Most of the popular characters stayed in the 31st Century. The characters were Wildfire, Dawnstar, Tellus, Tyroc, Gates, Chameleon Girl and Timber Wolf. Wildfire, Dawnstar and Timber Wolf were probably the most recognizable of the seven, but all seven suffered from poor characterization. Wildfire and Dawnstar displayed none of the resilience they were known for and spend most the 16 issues pining to be in each others arms but unable to due to their powers. It seems like they were included in the group for the lost-romance angst they had resolved years ago in the main comic. Timber Wolf turned brooding and savage, again wiping away years of character development. Tellus was too new in everyone eyes to be interesting (though was an interesting character in the original 90s comics he appeared in). No one, even Legion fans, cared about Tyroc, who began his career as a racist 70s black stereotype. Gates was a character from the reboot Legion and a fan favourite, but quickly relegated to the background in this series. Chameleon Girl, aka Yera Allon, was only recently inducted into the Legion and redundant, given the Chameleon Boy already had her powers. And the first issue had two of these characters that no one cared about dying (Yera and Gates). The first six issues were spent trying to track down Alastor, who had been randomly mutating people. There was little indication of how the Legion was going to stop him, nor how they could get back home to the future. The requisite in-team fighting happened pretty much every issue too. It also turns out Gates and Yera weren't killed. Gates survived by teleporting out or the explosion at the end of issue #1 and Yera had been mutated by Alastor somehow. The first six issues finished the first story arc, then the inevitable happened, as wont with the New 52. A new creative team. In comes Tom DeFalco, who hasn't written anything interesting in 20 years or so. He takes over on issue #7, and the Legion is shoehorned into the Culling event with the Teen Titans and Superboy. Issues 8-9 are impossible to understand without reading the crossover Titans and Superboy issues. And even then, it's a six issue non-stop brawl with a forgettable villain called Harvest, who's motivation still isn't clear even after a re-read. DeFalco also completely rewrites the characters too. Gates is physically scarred by his teleporation in issue #1 and becomes more belligerent and less insectlike and more animal like. Tellus becomes a mono-syllabic beast. Timber Wolf goes feral and his origin changed thanks to the #0 issue. Chameleon Girl is a background character with little to make her interesting. Tyroc somehow becomes a diplomat and leader. And Wildfire and Dawnstar continue to mope around. The comic lumbers on, with the team running into some superhuman Marines trying to round them up for the same paranoid reason that every New 52 comic seems to have. We distrust you super powered people! Then to the last three issues, teaming back up with the Titans and the Ravagers to fight Harvest again. The series ends in deus ex machina fashion, with Wildfire exploding and taking out the villain, only to find he had survived and found another containment suit to replace the one that was failing on him, causing him to mope around even more. Also Gates from the first issue comes back and says his first teleport caused him to skip into the future and split himself off into one un-scarred Gates and a scarred Gates that has been traveling with the team. They combine themselves and their teleporting powers to save the day somehow. The final issue ends with a quick two page wrap up and a Long Live the Legion cheer, though by this point, there's not much to cheer for or to care about. The 16 issues are a confused mess, and no one has any idea who the characters are or what they stand for (which is an endemic problem with New 52, IMO). The Legion remains stranded in the past as well, with no hope of getting home (it's been explained that the main Legion team in the future consider the seven lost Legionnaires to be dead). What's more, in the main Legion title, which was also cancelled, the main Legion is the Earth-2 Legion, so what that means for the seven lost Legionnaires is very confusing. Did they hope dimensions as well as travelling through time? Were they even part of the Earth-2 Legion? Did they even exist in the New 52 universe? Does it matter? It's stories like this that have turned me off of DC in general and into Marvel, which has made me a more happy person. Still, if the Legion comes back, I almost guarantee I'll be buying the title again...
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2014 02:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 22:57 |
|
|
Psychlone posted:
My name is Bobkatt013 and I am a Legionholic. (I would be right with you.)
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2014 02:46
|
|