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Womacks-JP-23 posted:My understanding is that successful Mustangs skip the QEP and go straight to the orals - and if they pass the orals, they go straight to the top of the register and enter the next A-100 (after clearances come through). The Mustang program changes a little bit every year. The last iteration had a Mustang specific QEP review which you have to pass to make it to the FSOA. If you get a passing score on the FSOA, once your clearances are updated, you can enter the next A-100. I believe you keep your specialist (or CS) skillcode until you are tenured at a generalist. So, if things don't work out, you can revert back to your old career. A specialist from my post is going into the next A-100 via Mustang. A classmate of mine landed an invite to the FSOA via the Mustang program - not sure if he's taken it though. TCD fucked around with this message at 11:28 on Feb 20, 2014 |
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Feb 20, 2014 11:25
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TCD posted:I believe you keep your specialist (or CS) skillcode until you are tenured at a generalist. So, if things don't work out, you can revert back to your old career. Aren't generalists unable to make tenure until they're off language probation?
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Feb 20, 2014 15:05
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Homie S posted:Aren't generalists unable to make tenure until they're off language probation? Thought so. I was just commenting that I thought, as a Mustang candidate, you still hold your old skill code until you get your generalist tenure.
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Feb 20, 2014 16:09
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Homie S posted:Aren't generalists unable to make tenure until they're off language probation? Yes, language proficiency and a consular tour are requirements for tenure.
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Feb 20, 2014 17:55
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Unfortunately, I got a 5.2 in the OA at the end of January. I passed the GE and SI but failed the CM. Anyway, lessons learned and I plan to attempt it again. Meanwhile, I'm applying for a job in DC. I know that the FS should never be Plan A so I'm getting on with my life and career as if the FS didn't exist. Just wondering though, if I get the job of course I'll be a local hire if the FS works out- so how much are local DC hires screwed? Is it just the cost of moving to DC plus a couple of months of rent/mortgage which I would miss out on or is there more to it than that?
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Feb 21, 2014 17:08
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They aren't screwed at all. Non-local hires get per-diem during training and as a result often live closer to FSI is all.
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Feb 22, 2014 17:51
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I don't want to start a debate on it but I wouldn't characterize receiving about $15-20K less in nontaxable compensation as "not screwed at all."
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Feb 22, 2014 18:10
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Nutrimentia posted:They aren't screwed at all. Non-local hires get per-diem during training and as a result often live closer to FSI is all. This is actually a lot of screwage. I get the intent behind the law. It makes sense to me when folks are coming through DC on their way overseas for short periods, after all there are large costs with such moves, but when some people stay "in-transit" for 9 months it starts to become a bit ridiculous. I think at least local hires "in-transit" should be eligible for the transit subsidy. There was some rumor that local hires in the future might be assigned to the DC locality while in orientation, thus be eligible for additional DC pay and transit, but not the per diem and housing of non-locals. Ultimately, it's not a big deal, everyone is finally equal once they leave for post.
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Feb 22, 2014 18:53
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In that case, would it make sense for a local hire to try to minimize time spent in DC for initial training? For example, bid on posts with no language requirements?
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Feb 22, 2014 20:59
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Obelisk posted:In that case, would it make sense for a local hire to try to minimize time spent in DC for initial training? For example, bid on posts with no language requirements? Yes. The people from my class who were local hires definitely felt the pinch, and some of them worked to get out as soon as possible.
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Feb 22, 2014 22:34
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I think I'm going to go for the FSOT. The practice test I took a look at doesn't look particularly difficult. What are the oral exams like? I've heard stories about being posed scenarios like being the resident diplomat at an embassy that just experienced an earthquake - how would you proceed? - stuff like that.
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Feb 23, 2014 03:11
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d1rtbag posted:Yes. The people from my class who were local hires definitely felt the pinch, and some of them worked to get out as soon as possible. Not getting per diem/transit subsidy was def. a sore point with some members of my class (and we heard about it!).
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Feb 23, 2014 11:40
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problematique posted:This is actually a lot of screwage. Where's the screwage again? Let's say you get hired to work in DC immediately. Local hires don't get anything extra, they're already here. Non-local hires will get moving expenses covered. Non-controversial. What's different about training? Per diem covers the costs of moving your entire family into a hotel for 2-12 months with roughly 3 suitcases per person for the duration. Seems reasonable to me for an employer to provide per diem in such cases. Local hires have their entire lives here. Sure I see complaint behind not getting M&IE, which amounts to $2K for the first 2 months, $1K for the next two months, and then $500/monthly for the next 8 (god forbid you go over 365 days on per diem, though, because then it all "capitalizes" as salary, not per diem, in which case you now owe taxes). This M&IE is the same regardless of family size, so singles definitely get a better break than those with kids. All together, the M&IE is about $10K if you stay for a full year and about $4K if you get a POL/ECON assignment without language training, which absolutely is appreciated, but considering the costs associated with moving expenses, I really don't see that per diem families are getting any kind of unfair benefit. Yeah, there are those whiny types in every class who get bunched up over not getting per diem and make sure everyone hears about. I have some sympathy, but not much. Think about those who get DC assignments for their first post. There's no per diem for that, and working at FSI (in training) isn't any different. Calling people out on this might make me unpopular but it's a lame issue to whine about. There's no basis for providing per diem to local hires; they're just bitter they don't get money they frankly don't need. I suppose there are those who are based locally on larger salaries that get cut when joining the FS, so I can see how that is a challenge financially. But per diem shouldn't be used for that anyway. I can envision a waiver program that would consider financial status changes as well as physical proximity, perhaps something with a linked housing assignment in Oakwood during training, for those cases. I would agree that they should be on locality pay though, for sure. Not getting per diem OR locality pay, that's screwage that I'll agree to. And don't even get me started on family med clearances...... 
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Feb 24, 2014 04:54
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I am interested in the Bureau of Intelligence and Research, but cannot for the life of me figure out how one works there. Is it only a tour of duty for FSOs? Or do they hire permanent staff? Compared to other sexier three letter agencies there is zilch about how to apply anywhere for them.
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Feb 24, 2014 05:02
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Nutrimentia posted:Where's the screwage again? Let's say you get hired to work in DC immediately. Local hires don't get anything extra, they're already here. Non-local hires will get moving expenses covered. Non-controversial. What's different about training? Per diem covers the costs of moving your entire family into a hotel for 2-12 months with roughly 3 suitcases per person for the duration. Seems reasonable to me for an employer to provide per diem in such cases. Local hires have their entire lives here. My understanding is that many non-locals get moved into apartments that State pays for directly, that are relatively near FSI, and that have free shuttles to FSI. Please do correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the impression I got. Locals are in a house or apartment that's simply somewhere within 50 miles of DC, and that, most likely, was convenient to their old job and the expense of which fit within their old salary. With a new, probably lower salary and a new, probably less convenient and more expensive commute... they could be pretty pinched. I mean, it's always better not to go through training whining. Everyone in A-100 had to work hard and exercise patience to get there, and there was plenty of time while working towards that goal to find out what the expenses of doing so would be. But I can understand feeling pinched. I personally am going to miss my transit subsidy. And it's too bad for me that A-100 isn't still in room A-100 of main State--that'd have been a nice walk for me every day.
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Feb 24, 2014 06:38
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Nutrimentia posted:They aren't screwed at all. Non-local hires get per-diem during training and as a result often live closer to FSI is all. chiming in to say no, you get screwed. You gotta pay high rent, if you move to FSI you have to pay their high rent (it's different rates, when I checked in 2012, they will only give the lesser per-diem rates through the official Channel. That happens to be a Certain Somebody in the department, and she will only allow it if you're outside the 50 limit.); Rents like $1,800+/month are sought after, etc. The most you can get? is like 10 days off pre-departure for post (with per diem!) if you're a local hire. Which is nice and all that for packout, thinking positively. A lot of folks already live paycheck to paycheck in DC; and diplomatic clauses are (from experience), not usually included in leases without proof of said 'diplomat' (employment?) somehow. So if you signed a lease then get the invite, you've pretty much hosed yourself/a roommate out of A Lot Of Money. Say you moved here for a job, not even 6 months, then get the invite - you will be a local hire! You haven't lived in DC your entire life, and the COLA is pretty crazy. At the very least they should get locality pay to cover the COLA, people were bitching less about rent and more about crazy FSI food prices. Skandiaavity fucked around with this message at 07:55 on Feb 24, 2014 |
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Feb 24, 2014 07:12
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kaishek posted:I am interested in the Bureau of Intelligence and Research, but cannot for the life of me figure out how one works there. Is it only a tour of duty for FSOs? Or do they hire permanent staff? Compared to other sexier three letter agencies there is zilch about how to apply anywhere for them. INR is temporary, I presume it's a Tour or spot you lobby for. For AS/level it needs a Senate appointment, but I am not sure if it's true for anyone else in that division. They're mum, I tell you that.
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Feb 24, 2014 07:19
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If you're already living and working in DC and get hired into the Foreign Service, you're probably taking a substantial pay cut if you don't get the benefits of being there for a TDY.
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Feb 24, 2014 09:10
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kaishek posted:I am interested in the Bureau of Intelligence and Research, but cannot for the life of me figure out how one works there. Is it only a tour of duty for FSOs? Or do they hire permanent staff? Compared to other sexier three letter agencies there is zilch about how to apply anywhere for them. I can't speak at all to FSO tours in INR, but I've talked with people who were in INR as civil servants. My impression is that there are just very rarely any job openings there for people who are looking to get into federal work because the organization is so small and so many of the civil service analysts stay there so long. I believe you will see openings for INR pop up on USAJobs once in a while. But it's only once in a very long while, as far as I can tell.
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Feb 24, 2014 09:25
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Shotar-Didi posted:I can't speak at all to FSO tours in INR, but I've talked with people who were in INR as civil servants. My impression is that there are just very rarely any job openings there for people who are looking to get into federal work because the organization is so small and so many of the civil service analysts stay there so long. This is completely accurate. For FSOs, tours are usually one to two years, and come up on the regular bidding cycle. INR is opposite of many other bureaus in that the number of civil service employees widely outnumbers the number of Foreign Service positions. And yes, people there basically never leave, which explains the rarity of positions opening up.
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Feb 24, 2014 11:08
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Thanks y'all - saved search on USAJobs it is, I suppose!
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Feb 24, 2014 14:20
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psydude posted:If you're already living and working in DC and get hired into the Foreign Service, you're probably taking a substantial pay cut if you don't get the benefits of being there for a TDY. Yes, at least when I went through, people under 50 miles did not get TDY OR locality pay which is getting screwed.
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Feb 24, 2014 15:21
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Question, lets say I take the FSOT and pass, but do not get past the other portions of the examination/Foreign Service hiring process. Is there anyway to salvage the outcome to apply to another part of the Department of State, or another agency, citing the FSOT anyway? Basically, is their a way to leverage a successful FSOT score for another non Foreign Service position?
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Feb 24, 2014 18:51
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Radio Talmudist posted:Question, lets say I take the FSOT and pass, but do not get past the other portions of the examination/Foreign Service hiring process. Is there anyway to salvage the outcome to apply to another part of the Department of State, or another agency, citing the FSOT anyway? Basically, is their a way to leverage a successful FSOT score for another non Foreign Service position? I'm scratching my head here wondering your motivation to name drop a passing FSOT score. "Hey hiring official, I'm totally qualified for this job, I mean, I passed the FSOT!"
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Feb 24, 2014 20:38
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TCD posted:Yes, at least when I went through, people under 50 miles did not get TDY OR locality pay which is getting screwed. Yeah, I rescind my "no screwage" comment considering that local hires don't get locality pay (which is +24%, no?) or per diem. I was focused on the "local hires want per diem" which I sympathize with but don't think it makes financial sense from an employer POV.
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Feb 24, 2014 21:43
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Radio Talmudist posted:I think I'm going to go for the FSOT. The practice test I took a look at doesn't look particularly difficult. What are the oral exams like? I've heard stories about being posed scenarios like being the resident diplomat at an embassy that just experienced an earthquake - how would you proceed? - stuff like that. I'm on my phone, so here's the short version: Look on the Yahoo! Groups forum called the fswe for FSOT help (and PNQs), and another group called fsoa for Oral exams. Great resource. There are a couple primers in the Files section to help you get started. I recommend preparing for the FSOT and PNQs now. There should be plenty of time after you learn the results of those steps to prepare for the oral assessment. Stolennosferatu fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Feb 24, 2014 |
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Feb 24, 2014 22:28
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Radio Talmudist posted:I think I'm going to go for the FSOT. The practice test I took a look at doesn't look particularly difficult. What are the oral exams like? I've heard stories about being posed scenarios like being the resident diplomat at an embassy that just experienced an earthquake - how would you proceed? - stuff like that. State has an official study guide that answers everything.
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Feb 25, 2014 00:07
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Radio Talmudist posted:Question, lets say I take the FSOT and pass, but do not get past the other portions of the examination/Foreign Service hiring process. Is there anyway to salvage the outcome to apply to another part of the Department of State, or another agency, citing the FSOT anyway? Basically, is their a way to leverage a successful FSOT score for another non Foreign Service position? a good portion of the 'difficulty' of the overall process is not the FSOT, but the OA and QEP are the major weed-out points. that said it's not really a standard of anything (afaik). fairly certain most people who actually get to the point where they're on the register (AT LAST), will accept an invite if they got one barring a few circumstances, so saying you turned one down is just going to give you puzzled looks. if you want to namedrop it, go ahead i guess, but if the employer knows the process at all it'll just lead to more questions/do you more harm than good/have a bad reflection on you.
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Feb 25, 2014 01:12
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TCD posted:I'm scratching my head here wondering your motivation to name drop a passing FSOT score. Sorry if I seem confused here. The impression I get (though please correct me if I'm wrong) is that applying for a career in the Foreign Service is a rigorous, time-consuming gauntlet with a high chance of failure, at any round of the process. I guess I'm a little afraid of putting so much energy and passion towards attaining an ultimately uncertain prize, and wanted to know if it was possible to mitigate the opportunity cost of applying for the foreign service with a good FSOT score. It seems silly now that I've typed it all out, but I guess anything worth pursuing in life is going to require a lot from you, with the possibility of getting nothing back. As for prepping for the FSOT, I've got my hands on the test prep book and I think I've got a good chance of scoring well on the exam.
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Feb 25, 2014 01:16
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The FSOT is the one round in which there is not a high chance of failure. It also doesn't really require a lot of effort to pass.
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Feb 25, 2014 01:20
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Stolennosferatu posted:I'm on my phone, so here's the short version: Look on the Yahoo! Groups forum called the fswe for FSOT help (and PNQs), and another group called fsoa for Oral exams. Great resource. There are a couple primers in the Files section to help you get started. Just joined the fswe group....holy lord is there an insane amount of prep materials here. Thank you so much for the heads up. I've already identified my weakness....management theory. I do very poorly on any question on that subject. If anyone could recommend any good resources or a primer on the subject, I'd be extremely appreciative!
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Feb 25, 2014 06:45
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Radio Talmudist posted:Just joined the fswe group....holy lord is there an insane amount of prep materials here. Thank you so much for the heads up. I've already identified my weakness....management theory. I do very poorly on any question on that subject. If anyone could recommend any good resources or a primer on the subject, I'd be extremely appreciative! Cliffs Quick Review - Principles of Management Seriously, you don't need anything more complicated than a college 101 level in any FSOT subject.
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Feb 25, 2014 08:24
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Radio Talmudist posted:Sorry if I seem confused here. The impression I get (though please correct me if I'm wrong) is that applying for a career in the Foreign Service is a rigorous, time-consuming gauntlet with a high chance of failure, at any round of the process. I guess I'm a little afraid of putting so much energy and passion towards attaining an ultimately uncertain prize, and wanted to know if it was possible to mitigate the opportunity cost of applying for the foreign service with a good FSOT score. It seems silly now that I've typed it all out, but I guess anything worth pursuing in life is going to require a lot from you, with the possibility of getting nothing back. As you suspect, there's really no direct outside benefits for the time and energy spent on FSOT prep. As others have mentioned, it's not exactly a test you can name drop to other employers. You have to make a personal decision about how much energy you want to put into the process after objectively looking at how difficult the process is and asking yourself how badly you want it. I recently got dinged in the QEP phase and made a personal decision to go all out for the Oct 2015 testing round. If you want to talk study strategies, hit me up.
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Feb 25, 2014 08:42
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Radio Talmudist posted:Sorry if I seem confused here. The impression I get (though please correct me if I'm wrong) is that applying for a career in the Foreign Service is a rigorous, time-consuming gauntlet with a high chance of failure, at any round of the process. I guess I'm a little afraid of putting so much energy and passion towards attaining an ultimately uncertain prize, and wanted to know if it was possible to mitigate the opportunity cost of applying for the foreign service with a good FSOT score. It seems silly now that I've typed it all out, but I guess anything worth pursuing in life is going to require a lot from you, with the possibility of getting nothing back. Yeah, ultimately the written exam is not the real weeding out process (though there are people who get hung up, usually on the biographical portion). The QEP is completely opaque to you and as far as most people can tell, both the QEP and the OA outcomes are highly dependent on hiring needs. I think I see what you're going at -- ultimately the FSOT experience is useful solely for an FS career. It's not applicable elsewhere, and parts of it are under NDA so it wouldn't be helpful for you anyway. This is why everyone says that the FS should be your plan B. You don't stake your hopes and dreams on it -- you should apply and try hard, but with the expectation that the odds are arbitrarily stacked against you in an already difficult and competitive environment, so it's awesome if you make it but ultimately not crushing if it takes you many attempts. Remember that you only get a shot at it once per year, and the hiring process easily takes 12+ months (up to 3+ years in some cases). Which means both "start now, waiting only hurts your long-term chances" and "always always have a primary plan for something else you'd love doing that isn't the FS, because you might need to be doing it for a while."
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Feb 25, 2014 09:04
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Leif. posted:Which means both "start now, waiting only hurts your long-term chances" and "always always have a primary plan for something else you'd love doing that isn't the FS, because you might need to be doing it for a while." Duly noted, I guess I'll consider it a hobby or side project to invest my free time in....a rather weird hobby or side project, but hey.
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Feb 25, 2014 14:14
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Womacks-JP-23 posted:As you suspect, there's really no direct outside benefits for the time and energy spent on FSOT prep. As others have mentioned, it's not exactly a test you can name drop to other employers. I got booted in the QEP last year as well. What are you doing to prepare? I think I will rewrite last year's PNQs before I take this year's test. I also have to prepare again for the FSOT. I plan to do three or four practice essays, re-read the Dictionary of Cultural Literacy and study the constitution again. Also do some basic bio prep. Any suggestions here?
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Feb 25, 2014 19:26
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IIRC the written test is scored in such a way to ensure that 45% of test-takers "pass". It's basically a rough sorting that ensures the remaining applicants have a moderate level of "general knowledge", are literate at a professional level, and can write decently well. There's a lot of work associated with the OA so they weed out roughly half of applicants. Under the old system passing the Written test resulted in an invite to the Oral Assessment, but now there's the black box QEP finger on the hose.
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Feb 25, 2014 22:08
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Flag Day results: heading to Harare, Zimbabwe!!!!!!!!
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Feb 26, 2014 01:55
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problematique posted:Flag Day results: heading to Harare, Zimbabwe!!!!!!!! Awesome!
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Feb 26, 2014 02:10
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problematique posted:Flag Day results: heading to Harare, Zimbabwe!!!!!!!! Congrats. Meet up with me before you go and I could make you a (hundred) trillionare!
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Feb 26, 2014 02:16
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