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xZAOx posted:According to their website, they've already got $118k donated too. That astounds me. I'm not too terribly surprised. I'm sure there is a good amount of people simply enamored with the concept that still believe, despite the forum subscription deal. As well I'm absolutely certain that there is a contingent of Dwight Schrute types who think paying for forum access so they can play Professional Armchair Game Dev is the greatest idea ever.
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Feb 25, 2014 19:17
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xZAOx posted:What other communities? NeoGAF basically ignored Pantheon, Rerolled was originally very optimistic but quickly came to realize this was going to be a trainwreck. The rpg codex thread is basically them making GBS threads on Brad from the first post on.
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Feb 25, 2014 19:19
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I think I would have preferred Brad McQuaid's stigma wasn't associated with this project because I would have liked to see this Kickstarter succeed or fail to test the basis that there is not a sustainably large audience that wants to go back to the "vision" of EverQuest in the first place.
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Feb 25, 2014 19:56
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I have to wonder if Brad reads the overwhemling chorus of negative feedback in this thread at all, or just skims through the first sentence of each post and if it looks like it isn't overwhelmingly positive quickly skips the rest. Either way I very much doubt he's taking whatever criticism he does encounter to heart, seeing as he's just going further and further down this road of microtransactions and smug doublespeak and refusing to directly acknowledge or allay any of the significant concerns many people have echoed. It's a shame as even his crappy and lazy Kickstarter has shown there is definitely a market for people who miss this kind of MMO.
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Feb 25, 2014 20:19
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I still want to know how they got to a subscription forum. I mean was it just Brad in complete control with no one to object? Or did their think tank collectively agree it was a good idea?
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Feb 25, 2014 21:36
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:I still want to know how they got to a subscription forum. I mean was it just Brad in complete control with no one to object? Or did their think tank collectively agree it was a good idea? Some people suggested it in the KS comments, and many jumped on board, saying "Hell yeah I would gladly pay $15 per month to get this game made!!!"
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Feb 25, 2014 21:51
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Lots of MMO players consider the forums a part of the game, so this is really just like an early sub fee!
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Feb 25, 2014 21:58
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Most MMOs are so bad that the forums are the best part.
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Feb 25, 2014 22:57
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Peechka posted:Some people suggested it in the KS comments, and many jumped on board, saying "Hell yeah I would gladly pay $15 per month to get this game made!!!" So it's from community feedback? I shudder to think what terrible feedback they'll give towards making a game. "Let's pay to give input even though every other community-oriented game listens for free!" Can't say the glove doesn't fit though: a group of people bad with money paying a guy bad with money.
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Feb 25, 2014 23:14
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Minsky posted:I think I would have preferred Brad McQuaid's stigma wasn't associated with this project because I would have liked to see this Kickstarter succeed or fail to test the basis that there is not a sustainably large audience that wants to go back to the "vision" of EverQuest in the first place. I would have rather seen them try to do something on a smaller scale than MMORPG KICKSTARTER! as that isn't going to work. It doesn't help that they brought nothing to the KS other than idea-man bullshit and some artwork, which only works if you have a solid & established team, and outside of Brad all they have is a dungeon designer, community managers, and more idea-mans. It was destined to fail from the starting line, with or without Brad behind the helm. As Kickstarters go, this one is horrible at gauging if there's hunger for another EQ type game on the market.
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Feb 26, 2014 01:09
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Either the pledge amount on the their front page is manually updated or the game is already hosed. It hasn't moved in 24 hours. If it's manually updated then they need better web designers or some jackass to update those numbers every minute. A static pledge drive is not good.
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Feb 26, 2014 01:14
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Mayor McCheese posted:I would have rather seen them try to do something on a smaller scale than MMORPG KICKSTARTER! as that isn't going to work. It doesn't help that they brought nothing to the KS other than idea-man bullshit and some artwork, which only works if you have a solid & established team, and outside of Brad all they have is a dungeon designer, community managers, and more idea-mans. It was destined to fail from the starting line, with or without Brad behind the helm. Ceythos and Silius at the least are more than just IdeaGuys.
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Feb 26, 2014 01:33
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Peechka posted:Some people suggested it in the KS comments, and many jumped on board, saying "Hell yeah I would gladly pay $15 per month to get this game made!!!" Jesus  I take it back. I apologize for blaming this entirely on Brad. The blame lays with the community for suggesting it AND Brad for thinking it was a good idea. Equal blame for all!
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Feb 26, 2014 02:31
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megalodong posted:Ceythos and Silius at the least are more than just IdeaGuys. Yeah, them and their dungeon designer are good developers for a MMORPG. I loved Silius' crafting system in Vanguard, and I loved the guy that designed Old Sebilis in Everquest, because he's on their team too. Is that "Vu?"
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Feb 26, 2014 02:44
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Node posted:Yeah, them and their dungeon designer are good developers for a MMORPG. I loved Silius' crafting system in Vanguard, and I loved the guy that designed Old Sebilis in Everquest, because he's on their team too. Is that "Vu?" They aren't coders. 'Designers' who can't actually put their ideas into practice are ideas guys by their nature.
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Feb 26, 2014 05:11
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Know what I honestly would like? Make a really nice, (yet simple), graphical mud and use that for world reveal stuff instead of the "in 3 days we'll show you a dark knight". That seems like something right up the alley of these "idea people", and seems to be what a lot of the kickstarter userbase really wants, even if they don't know it yet. Design an amazing graphical mud with some modern gameplay to make it easier to play without typing in commands, and build your world that way. Design several dozen dungeons, encounters, lots of core lore and worldbuilding stuff, then launch your kickstarter with "We'll turn this into a a modern MMO", and see if interest in the world, classes, monsters and dungeons goes up. Use funding from the MUD to contribute to the kickstarter as well, maybe charge piecemeal prices like $5 to unlock a new class or race, and let the $15 a month forums people have full access.
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Feb 26, 2014 06:22
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you know brad hosed up because he forgot to add a tier that came with two dozen pairs of socks and a littermaid
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Feb 26, 2014 06:54
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Meow Tse-tung posted:Know what I honestly would like? Make a really nice, (yet simple), graphical mud and use that for world reveal stuff instead of the "in 3 days we'll show you a dark knight". That seems like something right up the alley of these "idea people", and seems to be what a lot of the kickstarter userbase really wants, even if they don't know it yet. Design an amazing graphical mud with some modern gameplay to make it easier to play without typing in commands, and build your world that way. Design several dozen dungeons, encounters, lots of core lore and worldbuilding stuff, then launch your kickstarter with "We'll turn this into a a modern MMO", and see if interest in the world, classes, monsters and dungeons goes up. The only flaw in your plan is that no one plays MUDs.
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Feb 26, 2014 07:29
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randombattle posted:The only flaw in your plan is that no one plays MUDs. On the other hand, the same people who still play muds are the same ones clinging to p1999 and pantheons kickstarter as a last bastion of copy/pasted diku gameplay.
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Feb 26, 2014 07:45
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Meow Tse-tung posted:Know what I honestly would like? Make a really nice, (yet simple), graphical mud and use that for world reveal stuff instead of the "in 3 days we'll show you a dark knight". That seems like something right up the alley of these "idea people", and seems to be what a lot of the kickstarter userbase really wants, even if they don't know it yet. Design an amazing graphical mud with some modern gameplay to make it easier to play without typing in commands, and build your world that way. Design several dozen dungeons, encounters, lots of core lore and worldbuilding stuff, then launch your kickstarter with "We'll turn this into a a modern MMO", and see if interest in the world, classes, monsters and dungeons goes up. A graphical mud is an mmo. :P They could probably implement their combat mechanics into a basic ARPG with simple tiles and models and let you mess around with a level editor or world builder. However, any  will distract them from their core objective.
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Feb 26, 2014 07:50
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Zvim posted:A graphical mud is an mmo. :P Yeah, but when I say graphical mud, I pretty much mean just a low budget proof of concept that wouldn't detract from the actual project, not a full fledged game. I mean poo poo, don't people basically run muds in their spare time these days?
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Feb 26, 2014 07:56
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Byolante posted:They aren't coders. 'Designers' who can't actually put their ideas into practice are ideas guys by their nature. Vu is an artist. Ceythos and Silius are designers with management experience. They don't just come up with ideas for things; you'd actually want someone with their skillsets for making a game (assuming Silius isn't as terrible as people on FOH say he is). It's moot, because Pantheon doesn't have anyone else you'd need to make a game, nor is it ever going to get made, but it's kind of unfair to everyone whose title is "designer" and actually gets poo poo done to call them all idea guys.
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Feb 26, 2014 08:01
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Sillius thought this was a good idea in response to the vantanic sinking, that's probably all you need to know about him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjo0dovYVtU Could have turned it around for vanguard.
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Feb 26, 2014 08:12
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FOH hate silius because he was in charge when a lot of the really grindy stuff was put in vanguard. But they also hate anyone and everything that's not pre-kunark EQ1. He's still an actual designer though, and lol if you think anyone not a programmer is worthless. And this showed up in the related videos for slappy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eA5EYPz-To
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Feb 26, 2014 08:54
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"Not high production value" "The best part is the box..." If that isn't a glowing endorsement then I don't know what is.
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Feb 26, 2014 13:44
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Meow Tse-tung posted:Yeah, but when I say graphical mud, I pretty much mean just a low budget proof of concept that wouldn't detract from the actual project, not a full fledged game. I mean poo poo, don't people basically run muds in their spare time these days? I think people do, my GF still plays the same one she has been playing since the dawn of time and there are about 20 or so people who still actively play that. I still miss coding on muds but I think I will probably just do a multi-client graphical rogue-like in python for self-gratification.
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Feb 26, 2014 13:50
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So far, this whole thing smacks me as McQuaid not taking away the right lessons from Vanguard and EQ1. I'm kind of curious if Brad's still reading this forum if he would answer what he thinks his biggest (personal) failing in Vanguard was, and what he's taken from that going forward. Even ignoring the Subscription forums which, for all the poo poo talk we give Brad in this thread, I can at least understand that he's got to make money somehow to fund this thing. I think he's doing it in a way that comes across as incredibly skeezy, but if people pay it and it keeps the office going and development progressing, more power to him. The big thing I worry about inviting the public into development forums and such is Pantheon turning into Design By Committee, except the committee in this case is a bunch of assholes from the internet screaming about being so hardcore and casual crybabies and whatnot. If you listen to what they have to say and actively implement it, what you'll wind up with is something approaching BDSM minus the sexual gratification. There is a select subset of people that will be down for that, but you will alienate large swaths of people from outside of the McQuaid bubble. I grew up and went though middle school and a fair amount of high school playing EQ1, and looking back at my time there, it was kind of an exercise in group suffering bringing people together. Your character mattered because it took so long to accomplish anything, from leveling to traveling to running dungeons. Even in the best circumstances (a group with both an enchanter AND a bard, which was incredibly rare) mana regenerated obscenely slow. You had nothing better to do in experience groups but shooting the poo poo to pass time between pulls, compared to my last stint in WoW where I could spend a day pubbing dungeons and never say a word to any of my party members. That time to communicate with pubbies and the time it takes to level up means that character reputation mattered. On more than one occasion my EQ1 Wizard got invited to other guild's PoHate and Sky raids because my guild had progressed past it, you had to have a wizard to teleport to them, and I had a reputation of being a chill guy who knew his poo poo. Here's the thing about that: In order to have a game that builds strong player communities like EQ1, you have to slow the pace of the game down and make it hard to level. That worked great when I was a teenager with no sense and no social life, but I've got poo poo to do now. I would rather slam my dick in a toilet seat rather than level up a new character in Project 1999. The worst, most demoralizing thing about EQ1 was going LFG for two hours waiting for both a group and a camp spot, getting to the camp and fighting for 2 hours, having the tank or cleric leave and have the group dissolve, dying post group, loosing most of the exp headway you made, and starting the process all over again. I don't have the time commitments to do that again. There is a balancing act between having a world that enables building communities and player reputations, and having a game that people who can only play 10 hours or less a week intermittently can make progress in, and I don't trust that the end result of this is going to be something that balances that well.
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Feb 26, 2014 16:38
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megalodong posted:FOH hate silius because he was in charge when a lot of the really grindy stuff was put in vanguard. But they also hate anyone and everything that's not pre-kunark EQ1. I kinda want that just for the soundtrack cd. Vanguard had a really good soundtrack, and like the rest of the game it was humongous. 106 tracks, over a gig of space, I think.
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Feb 26, 2014 16:43
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Here is some insight to Brads other venture, Vanguard. Take this with a grain of salt though, it reads liek a rant from someone which lost his job, but im sure there is plenty of truth to it.quote:You know, as much as I hate having to carefully craft (AKA, lie through my teeth) an answer to "What was Vanguard's biggest failing?" in job interviews, I realized after reading that rather disappointing article how proud I am of it.
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Feb 26, 2014 16:44
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Peechka posted:Here is some insight to Brads other venture, Vanguard. Take this with a grain of salt though, it reads liek a rant from someone which lost his job, but im sure there is plenty of truth to it. I like the part where brad is stealing drugs from co-workers desks.
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Feb 26, 2014 18:07
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Pretty funny how this turned out.  Maybe he should redirect his focus into making a game a forum with virtual items, like that anime forum where people pay $1000 for a virtual hat that only exists in crudely pixelated form on the forum (it's not even a game), to display on your avatar next to your posts?
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Feb 26, 2014 20:29
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Pilsner posted:Pretty funny how this turned out. You mean Gaia Online?
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Feb 26, 2014 23:15
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ShadowMoo posted:You mean Gaia Online?
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Feb 28, 2014 00:38
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Community locked behind a paywall: check. Everyone loses interest and the game falls off the radar: check. All according to plan.
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Mar 1, 2014 17:55
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G Prestige posted:Community locked behind a paywall: check. Drug addicts aren't known for their long term planning.
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Mar 1, 2014 18:03
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Drug addicts aren't known for their long term planning. https://www.pantheonrotf.com/blogs/355/41/tuesday-s-dev-meeting-recap-wit Developers meeting was on tuesday. Held in a garage. Looks more like and AA meeting. Edit: They Devel Team looks cool and not at all like shady people. FreeWifi!! fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Mar 1, 2014 |
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Mar 1, 2014 19:32
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I imagine this project as an animated short. A gangly man in a stained chef's hat wobbles into the scene, balancing a cupcake on a huge tray. He trips over his own feet, stomps on the cupcake, falls on his rear end on top of it. He pulls himself shakily to his feet, scoops up some filthy icing with a finger, and turns to the camera: "it's still good!"
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Mar 2, 2014 03:48
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iminers posted:https://www.pantheonrotf.com/blogs/355/41/tuesday-s-dev-meeting-recap-wit Held in a garage.
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Mar 2, 2014 04:23
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Node posted:Held in a garage. You'd be amazed at the companies that were started in a garage.
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Mar 2, 2014 04:33
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jabro posted:You'd be amazed at the companies that were started in a garage. I probably would I suppose. It's just staggering to see those pictures, when their initial stretch goals went up to something like $8,000,000. I still hope I can play Pantheon, but my optimism has gone down by quite a bit.
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Mar 2, 2014 04:41
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